Parental Notification/Permission for Abortion

[Danoff]

The consequence of having unprotected sex is getting pregnant/having a child.

Getting pregnant!=Having a child

That's what abortion is for.

 

[FoolKiller]

Getting pregnant!=Having a child

I saw this coming three posts ago. Isn't this essentially what our entire abortion debate was over?

 

[Danoff]

I saw this coming three posts ago. Isn't this essentially what our entire abortion debate was over?

Basically, yea.

 

[Deathclown66]

It is not the government's job to enforce morals, they are for each man (or woman) to decide for himself, it is the government's job to protect the people, and serve them.
It is the government's job to stop people from harming others, etc.

So where does that leave abortion? With Science.
Science says it is not a human being until a certain age, and that is what the government should go by. Not religion, not moral, but whether or not it is a human being. If it is a human being, it is murder.
Science says it is not a human being, for many reasons.

Whether anyone personally likes it, abortion should be legal, and the government should have no say in who/when/where does it. (notice I excluded "how")

I'd like to ask the board: At what point is it a human being? egg? sperm? egg/sperm contact? positive pregnancy test? natural departure from mother's womb?

 

[Danoff]

DC,

I'm going to repost what you just wrote in the abortion thread.

 

[Deathclown66]

^^ I'm not sure if that's a compliment, or if you're saying i'm off-topic....

It does directly deal with parental permission, by saying that the government should have no partaking in who has one, and should likewise have no say to make parents consent.

 

[Danoff]

^^ I'm not sure if that's a compliment, or if you're saying i'm off-topic....

It does directly deal with parental permission, by saying that the government should have no partaking in who has one, and should likewise have no say to make parents consent.

Yea some of what you posted is on topic, but most of it is about abortion in general - which is quite a topic in and of itself. So I copied your statement over to the abortion thread.

 

[Wenders]

Ok, to start I am going to apologise in advance if my post gets somewhat jumbled and out of order, I guess that’s a consequence of coming into an argument that’s already 4 pages long.

First of all I think I’ll state my position on this debate, with all the quotes and responses in this thread I have lost track of who is on what side of the argument.
In principle, I think that a girl should have the right to make the decision on whether she has an abortion or not if she fell pregnant, no matter what age. I think as a parent being notified of the choice is mostly a good idea so you are able to deal with any possible consequences of their choice but I also believe that there will be circumstances when notification of an abortion should not be given to a parent if its likely to cause undue harm to the child.

There has been a lot of talk of consequences in this thread, consequences of sex, consequences of pregnancy etc.

I agree, pregnancy is a consequence of unprotected sex, so is a sexually transmitted disease. Both can be life threatening and both can be life long. Would you refuse to let your child be treated for HIV if she/he caught it from unprotected sex just so they have to deal with the consequence of their actions? We try to teach our children not to take drugs and how harmful they can be to us but if your child accidently overdosed on an illicit drug would you refuse medical treatment just so they have to deal with the conseqence?

There's an inconsistency there. If you say they are too young to understand the decision, how can they make an intelligent one?

There are a lot of adults out there unable to make intelligent decisions as well. And ones who would make an important decision like this emotionally rather than what is best for the child in question.

So where does that leave abortion? With Science.
Science says it is not a human being until a certain age, and that is what the government should go by. Not religion, not moral, but whether or not it is a human being. Science says it is not a human being, for many reasons.

Any parent of teenagers would have to agree they aren’t human until they reach the age of 25(or later in some instances) J

They can make her do a lot of other things against her will too. Like chores, school, bathing, hygiene, church, sports and the like. How is this so much different?

I remember a certain male child of mine (who shall remain nameless) running away from home at 9 because I was trying to make him bathe (lucky for me this isn’t a thread he is likely to get involved in J)

Maybe it's a way the parents use to show their daughter the consequences of sex.

Pregnancy is the consequence of pregnancy that is being dealt with by having an abortion. A parent can choose to let their child face the consequences of their actions or choose to pay for them to get around it and go on with life like nothing happened.

You make it sound like the child needs to have the baby in order to teach her a lesson, which is morally wrong when there are so many other lives to consider apart from the child’s - the parents, the father, any other siblings as well as the baby that could be brought into the world, they could all suffer from this unfortunate mistake.

No, like getting pregnant when you don't want to. That's the problem. an abortion is a fix to a problem that shouldn't have to exist if personal responsibility is taken.

There can be a lot said for personal responsibility, in all aspects of our lives but that’s a whole other argument. Correct me if I am wrong (it’s been a while) but if my memory serves me correctly it takes two people to have sex (real sex I mean) so why should the personal responsibility just fall on the female party of this act. I’ve been around a while and have heard all the stories from you blokes come up with as to why you need sex 60 times a day or why you shouldn’t wear condoms. There are a lot of naïve girls out there that will believe any bull@#*$ story you tell them as to why you may not need to wear a condom but they are the ones that have to suffer the consequence of falling pregnant.
Now I am not trying to blame it all on the male species but since I seem to be the only female in this debate I feel there is a certain bias in this thread to the pregnancy being all the girls fault and she is the one that has to deal with the consequence or be taught the lesson.

Because it isn't simply an unnecessary medical procedure. It's a personal life decision.

And like all personal life decisions, the parents have to give consent. Find me any girl under the age of 16 that can truly weigh the long-term consequences of personal life decisions.

I have one living right under my roof. Fortunately for me this was never an issue we had to deal with but it was one I was always prepared from the time I gave birth to her. It’s something that we talked about a fair bit and she knew that if she got into that situation she would have my full support in whatever decision she made and I knew that she had the maturity to make that decision. I don’t know what or how I did it but somehow I managed to bring her up to be a mature, intelligent and morally sound human being. I sometimes think it is just her way of rebelling, she doesn’t want to be like me J

This is also a medical procedure that requires signing legal forms that many adults have trouble understanding, and you expect a teenage girl to be able to? Then you are also expecting these young girls to understand that there is a chance they can die. They are freaking out, obviously too scared to tell their parents, and are reacting out of fear. You expect this girl to completely understand the medical risks that go along with any medical procedure as well as the few risks that go along with abortions?

There is a maturity level at issue here and if they aren't mature enough to get a tattoo, see certrain movies, smoke, drink, vote, or select any other medical procedures then why would they be mature enough to make this decision?

I agree there is a maturity issue here. Some girls at 13 or even younger are old enough to understand the ramifications of either decision and some at 16 or 18 aren’t. A 12 year old that has realised she is pregnant and has taken herself to a doctor to do something about the pregnancy has already shown a certain level of maturity in dealing with the situation. The ones who don’t have the maturity are more likely to ignore the situation and hope it goes away.

I am also concerned that if a child feels she doesn’t have a good enough relationship with her parents to discuss the situation then how can she feel confident that they will help her make the right decision.

I don't remember asking my parents for permission to go to a particular college (even though I was 15 when I applied and 16 when I attended). That's what I'd call a personal life decision that minors can make. One that has many consequences for the rest of their life - and so it is one that must be made by them and cannot be made for them.

My daughter made a similar decision about which high school she was going to attend when she was 11.

Parents cannot force their children to get fake boobs, rhinoplasty, liposuction, or attach a third arm or a second head.

I actually did force Jack to have his second head removed against his will J and am currently deciding if I should make him get a boob job.

Once again, why I don't want kids. I'll worry too much about a daughter and I fear a son will be like me. I can't count the number of times I nearly burned down the house in the name of scientific experimentation (age 8: yes bubble gum burns - age 16: yes, hydrogen gas burns).

We all do stupid things when we are kids. It’s part of growing up. Some kids get through childhood/adolescence unscathed and some aren’t so lucky and have to deal with those decisions for the rest of their lives, whether they are the right decisions or not. I’ve done my fair share of things that even now at 43 I wouldn’t dream of telling my parents or tell my kids about. I guess what I am getting at here is we do things, some of them dumb, some life altering we may have to deal with them for the rest of our lives and what decision we make as a teenager may not end up being the right one to have made by the time we are an adult. A child can choose to abort and that may be the end of it but it also may affect her emotionally or physically later in life. A child can choose to keep a baby and may suffer for the rest of her life but it also can be the best decision ever made. She may give up a baby for adoption and be happy or regret the decision for the rest of her life but it is HER decision and in the end she is the one that has to deal with it for her life time. What she feels at 16 years of age, at 20 and at 40 or 50 may not end up being what she felt at 14 but she will always know it was her choice not someone elses. Personal responsibility is about making choices and dealing with them whatever they are.

 

[ledhed]

You know those tags they put on mattresses ? Well keep getting the government involved and sooner or later your all going to be walking around with a warning label on your pecker.

 

[ledhed]

Here I think this illustrates my point succinctly ;


. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BScc2dFpJg