mayorbill11
(Banned)
- 1,231
Discuss.
Parents should have to keep their toddlers on a leash in public places.
- Thread starter mayorbill11
- 24 comments
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- 6,977
- old-guy64
Leash? No.
I do believe that children need to be trained how to behave in public. And, that training should start when they are very young.
Because a child is a lot like a sapling. You can prune a sapling to make it grow the way you want it to while it's a sapling. But before too long without intervention, the sapling will grow in the direction it chooses, and will no longer be "trainable."
Because of the fear of possible allegations of child abuse, fewer parents are spanking children. And I am talking about spanking, not beating. There is a difference.
As unpopular as this opinion is, there are three things that have greatly contributed to the delinquincy/bad behavior of children in America, and ostensibly throughout most of the world. Taking prayer, the teaching of morality, and corporal punishment out of the schools was, IMHO, a mistake.
Yes it is true that the use of corporal punishment has become "abuse" in the hands of some.
However, when I was a kid, knowing that you might get a spanking for your "transgressions" was generally enough to prevent them.
You also knew that the lady down the street would spank you if you got out of line, then she'd tell your mamma. And, if you hadn't told your mamma first you were likely to get another "hiding." That fear/respect kept us in line.
Nowdays, kids have little respect for "authority" because if any is exercised on them they can have the exercisor arrested. It doesn't matter if the kid deserved the "rod of correction."
Further, IMO each generation that goes on w/o the "rod of correction" will see its youth being more defiant, and perpetrating worse stuff. That is my opinion in a rather large "nutshell."
I also know that this opinion will generate a lot of contoversy, and downright nastiness in my direction.
I'm sorry in advance for offending. But I stand by every word.
I do believe that children need to be trained how to behave in public. And, that training should start when they are very young.
Because a child is a lot like a sapling. You can prune a sapling to make it grow the way you want it to while it's a sapling. But before too long without intervention, the sapling will grow in the direction it chooses, and will no longer be "trainable."
Because of the fear of possible allegations of child abuse, fewer parents are spanking children. And I am talking about spanking, not beating. There is a difference.
As unpopular as this opinion is, there are three things that have greatly contributed to the delinquincy/bad behavior of children in America, and ostensibly throughout most of the world. Taking prayer, the teaching of morality, and corporal punishment out of the schools was, IMHO, a mistake.
Yes it is true that the use of corporal punishment has become "abuse" in the hands of some.
However, when I was a kid, knowing that you might get a spanking for your "transgressions" was generally enough to prevent them.
You also knew that the lady down the street would spank you if you got out of line, then she'd tell your mamma. And, if you hadn't told your mamma first you were likely to get another "hiding." That fear/respect kept us in line.
Nowdays, kids have little respect for "authority" because if any is exercised on them they can have the exercisor arrested. It doesn't matter if the kid deserved the "rod of correction."
Further, IMO each generation that goes on w/o the "rod of correction" will see its youth being more defiant, and perpetrating worse stuff. That is my opinion in a rather large "nutshell."
I also know that this opinion will generate a lot of contoversy, and downright nastiness in my direction.
I'm sorry in advance for offending. But I stand by every word.
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- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
Why didn't your parents control you, mayorbill?
Yeah, Gil, I'm going to have to disagree heavily with evreything but your first couple paragraphs.
I was spanked/hit by my parents exactly once in my entire childhood, and it was when I had told my mother a barefaced lie. She smacked me across the mouth for it.
Nonetheless I was never an out of control child and I respected authority and other people's property, because I was raised that way. And my schooling did not include prayer or corporal punishment ever, other than having a 20-minutes-once-a-week chapel service for a few of my middle school years. This I totally ignored since I already had solidified my opinion on the matter of religion, so I can't say it had any effect on my behaviour. And I suspect that what you and I call 'morality' differs a bit, especially in the way it was taught.
I agree with you that early and consistent correction is the key but I disagree that fear of getting spanked has much to do with it. My elder daughter has been cantankerous and defiant since age 3, and we have tried all forms of "adjustment" we can think of: rewarding good behaviour, punishing bad behavior. Spanking is the least effective and she simply viewed it as the price she had to pay to get what she wanted.
Leashes/muzzles/etc. are the lazy way out for parents who can't be bothered to be parents and should never have had kids. You can't be a parent when you feel like it and ignore the child when you feel like having a chat on your cel phone. You need to be firm and diligent and be prepared to miss the end of the damn movie if your kid won't sit still and be quiet. Too many parents are not willing to believe that you have to deny yourself a lot in order to raise a child properly. A lot of that has to do with the continuing trend in society of expecting too much too quickly.
Yeah, Gil, I'm going to have to disagree heavily with evreything but your first couple paragraphs.
I was spanked/hit by my parents exactly once in my entire childhood, and it was when I had told my mother a barefaced lie. She smacked me across the mouth for it.
Nonetheless I was never an out of control child and I respected authority and other people's property, because I was raised that way. And my schooling did not include prayer or corporal punishment ever, other than having a 20-minutes-once-a-week chapel service for a few of my middle school years. This I totally ignored since I already had solidified my opinion on the matter of religion, so I can't say it had any effect on my behaviour. And I suspect that what you and I call 'morality' differs a bit, especially in the way it was taught.
I agree with you that early and consistent correction is the key but I disagree that fear of getting spanked has much to do with it. My elder daughter has been cantankerous and defiant since age 3, and we have tried all forms of "adjustment" we can think of: rewarding good behaviour, punishing bad behavior. Spanking is the least effective and she simply viewed it as the price she had to pay to get what she wanted.
Leashes/muzzles/etc. are the lazy way out for parents who can't be bothered to be parents and should never have had kids. You can't be a parent when you feel like it and ignore the child when you feel like having a chat on your cel phone. You need to be firm and diligent and be prepared to miss the end of the damn movie if your kid won't sit still and be quiet. Too many parents are not willing to believe that you have to deny yourself a lot in order to raise a child properly. A lot of that has to do with the continuing trend in society of expecting too much too quickly.
mayorbill11
(Banned)
- 1,231
I agree for the most part, neon duke, but i don't quite understand what you're saying with the comment directed toward me.
Likewise, my parents may have spanked me once or twice when I was like 4, and they sent me to my room for bad stuff until I was 6 or so, but I was a good kid, I don't exactly remember why they stopped sending me to my room, since I hated going to my room. Maybe it was I got a TV and the Super NES in my room when I was 7.
I have never been a troublemaker. I was always the kid who didn't steal, didn't vandalise things, etc... though my welfare friends did for the most part, I didn't take part.
In my opinion, this whole thing about not spanking your kids is a load of ****, I think the primary reason that it was done away with was because some parents went over the line - I know one of my friends was beat all the time and he was a bastard for the most part, stealing from stores and whatnot. It didn't really do anything. He was parented very strictly, being grounded, etc. as a result, whenever he wasn't grounded for something, he used that as an opprotunity to get into more trouble, he had a curfew too. When I was younger, like 7-12, i didn't really have a curfew so to speak, I was usually out with my friends or whatever until they went in at 8 or 9 and then it got boring, my friend that I mentioned earlier had to be in when it got dark or the streetlights came on. I think his grandmother was too strict on him, but she was very old and probably didn't want to put up with anymore since she had had kids before. You CAN over-punish your kids, imo.
Anyway, about these douchebag parents, they suck. Whenever I go to our local mall, there are always these kids running around with mommy on the cell phone or whatever... it pisses me off, these people can't control their kids at all. I'm 6', and everyday, if I wasn't keeping these kids and their deliquent parents in my mind, one would surely run around an aisle into me, smack it's head off the floor, and cry like a little *****. Good job watching where you were going, einstein, and hey pregnant mommy with the 5 kids, get an abortion and learn how to raise the ones you already have.
Likewise, my parents may have spanked me once or twice when I was like 4, and they sent me to my room for bad stuff until I was 6 or so, but I was a good kid, I don't exactly remember why they stopped sending me to my room, since I hated going to my room. Maybe it was I got a TV and the Super NES in my room when I was 7.
I have never been a troublemaker. I was always the kid who didn't steal, didn't vandalise things, etc... though my welfare friends did for the most part, I didn't take part.
In my opinion, this whole thing about not spanking your kids is a load of ****, I think the primary reason that it was done away with was because some parents went over the line - I know one of my friends was beat all the time and he was a bastard for the most part, stealing from stores and whatnot. It didn't really do anything. He was parented very strictly, being grounded, etc. as a result, whenever he wasn't grounded for something, he used that as an opprotunity to get into more trouble, he had a curfew too. When I was younger, like 7-12, i didn't really have a curfew so to speak, I was usually out with my friends or whatever until they went in at 8 or 9 and then it got boring, my friend that I mentioned earlier had to be in when it got dark or the streetlights came on. I think his grandmother was too strict on him, but she was very old and probably didn't want to put up with anymore since she had had kids before. You CAN over-punish your kids, imo.
Anyway, about these douchebag parents, they suck. Whenever I go to our local mall, there are always these kids running around with mommy on the cell phone or whatever... it pisses me off, these people can't control their kids at all. I'm 6', and everyday, if I wasn't keeping these kids and their deliquent parents in my mind, one would surely run around an aisle into me, smack it's head off the floor, and cry like a little *****. Good job watching where you were going, einstein, and hey pregnant mommy with the 5 kids, get an abortion and learn how to raise the ones you already have.
mayorbill11
(Banned)
- 1,231
about the leashes thing, i've seen them before, they kid wears a harness, not like a neck strap, that would be abuse.
mayorbill11
(Banned)
- 1,231
I guess that depends on your definition of children.
- 2,732
I agree with leases and spanking, and the like, but it all depends on the child. I was, and probably continue to be(depending on whom you ask) a reckless child. My parents had some sort of leash thing for me because I would ALWAYS run off and do my own thing. It wouldn't be that big of a problem, I guess, with the exception of there being another brother and sister of mine that my parents had to look after, as well as anything else they had with them. Eventually, however, I literally broke that "leash", but after that I guess I stopped going to other places all the time. But I wouldn't really call what I had a "leash". It was some plastic thing that was strapped around my wrist, and I think those should replace ones around necks, or else you're degrading the child to a dog(Not that dogs are bad by any means, but you understand...)
Spanking is definately required. If parents don't spank their children, as Gil said, the children just keep on pushing more and more. And yes, like Gil said, there is a difference between spanking and beating. I wasn't around for there to be physical punishment in classes or in school, but I see the effect. Schools should allow teachers to have bamboo sticks for when a student is disrespectful. It teaches discipline and respect. There are alternative approaches, such as making somebody go run a mile, like what my football coaches made us do when we were really out of line, but one cannot seriously expect a student, especially a disrespectful student, to actually go run that mile, unless that's what they secretly wanted to do because they had a calling to go running or anything. Anywho, back on track:
There's just some message of physical punishment that other punishments just don't get across. Sending people on "time outs" is a joke. Hell, it gives the person a chance to sleep, and they don't have anything to fear or to feel punished. When parents "ground" their children for a long period of time, most of the occurances simply mean no hanging out with people. Yet the children still can have snacks, watch TV, play video games, go in the interent, chat online, etc.
Spanking is definately required. If parents don't spank their children, as Gil said, the children just keep on pushing more and more. And yes, like Gil said, there is a difference between spanking and beating. I wasn't around for there to be physical punishment in classes or in school, but I see the effect. Schools should allow teachers to have bamboo sticks for when a student is disrespectful. It teaches discipline and respect. There are alternative approaches, such as making somebody go run a mile, like what my football coaches made us do when we were really out of line, but one cannot seriously expect a student, especially a disrespectful student, to actually go run that mile, unless that's what they secretly wanted to do because they had a calling to go running or anything. Anywho, back on track:
There's just some message of physical punishment that other punishments just don't get across. Sending people on "time outs" is a joke. Hell, it gives the person a chance to sleep, and they don't have anything to fear or to feel punished. When parents "ground" their children for a long period of time, most of the occurances simply mean no hanging out with people. Yet the children still can have snacks, watch TV, play video games, go in the interent, chat online, etc.
mayorbill11
(Banned)
- 1,231
this friend of mine was pretty poor. i guess he could sit around and play with himself, but that's about it.
i don't think that schools should be in charge of punishment, as far as hitting kids goes. i would have never put up with that as a kid, i didn't put up with much actually.
i don't think that schools should be in charge of punishment, as far as hitting kids goes. i would have never put up with that as a kid, i didn't put up with much actually.
- 6,977
- old-guy64
Duke, as always you have presented your point well and articulately.
I agree with you on most of what you said. Probably more than you agree with me.
There are some kids that don't require spanking, a stern look reduces them to jello. There are also those that spanking does no good. I have one or two of those running around here.
But there must be some "unpleasantness" resultant from disobedience. My 18 year-old towers over me. But we have no problems for two reasons. We've worked on respect since he was old enough to understand the concept. He is also well aware that if the need arises I can lift him off the floor by his collar. Thankfully, that need hasn't reared it's ugly head for a couple of years.
One of the things I didn't make clear is that while I believe in not "sparing the rod", it is the punishment of LAST RESORT. If we can come to a resolution thru discourse, and other punishment, then that's what we do.
The latest punishmentin my "bag" is that the punishee is "sentenced" to kitchen duty for at least a week. Being as there are eight of us in this house, and I like my kitchen spotless...Let's just say that I've been begged for a spanking when I have imposed kitchen duty.
As far as "morality", I am talking about it turning into "situational ethics" instead of basic right from wrong. The "whatever feels right to you at this moment is ok" bullsh**. All people need to have boundaries and to know what those boundaries are. Especially kids. I've noticed that most kids respect you more if you are consistent in discipline, and, enforce the boundaries.
I repeat: "Spanking while sometimes necessary, is a punishment of last resort."
I agree with you on most of what you said. Probably more than you agree with me.
There are some kids that don't require spanking, a stern look reduces them to jello. There are also those that spanking does no good. I have one or two of those running around here.But there must be some "unpleasantness" resultant from disobedience. My 18 year-old towers over me. But we have no problems for two reasons. We've worked on respect since he was old enough to understand the concept. He is also well aware that if the need arises I can lift him off the floor by his collar. Thankfully, that need hasn't reared it's ugly head for a couple of years.
One of the things I didn't make clear is that while I believe in not "sparing the rod", it is the punishment of LAST RESORT. If we can come to a resolution thru discourse, and other punishment, then that's what we do.
The latest punishmentin my "bag" is that the punishee is "sentenced" to kitchen duty for at least a week. Being as there are eight of us in this house, and I like my kitchen spotless...Let's just say that I've been begged for a spanking when I have imposed kitchen duty.
As far as "morality", I am talking about it turning into "situational ethics" instead of basic right from wrong. The "whatever feels right to you at this moment is ok" bullsh**. All people need to have boundaries and to know what those boundaries are. Especially kids. I've noticed that most kids respect you more if you are consistent in discipline, and, enforce the boundaries.
I repeat: "Spanking while sometimes necessary, is a punishment of last resort."
- 3,194
Damn that was good 👍
- 3,194
ROFLMAO!
- 3,425
Parenting seems to have become a lost art. I only have two kids and I can tell ya its difficult but not immpossible to be a parent to your children..Damm you owe them at least that much. The fact that both my kids ( boy 12 girl 21 ) know that I would if it came to it wack there butts has worked great neither of them has ever let it get to that point. Although my wife once smacked my duaghter in the mouth for being very disrespectfull.
I wouldn't go so far as letting corpral punishment back into schools..schools are for learning, discipline should be learned at home,,teachers have enough problems why send them yours.
I wouldn't go so far as letting corpral punishment back into schools..schools are for learning, discipline should be learned at home,,teachers have enough problems why send them yours.
- 3,194
ANY physical violence is the wrong answer IMO. Now 'physical labor',... thats another story.
- 9,209
- DerAlta
I'm very interested in knowing what was done in Duke's youth/childhood to grow up as a well adjusted person?
He notes that he was spanked only once in his childhood. What other methods/actions did your parents use to discipline you? I'm interested, as I lean more towards Gil's theory that the rod is a last resort.
I'm also interested to learn how you plan on dealing with the young lady now that she has figured out that there is a price to pay (even if she doesn't know the cost) for her actions. What discourse will you have when she gets mad at you and knocks a tail light out of the pontiac, in return. Does she escalate the retaliation? For instance, she eats all the ice cream in the freezer. You send her to her room, and ground her for a week. The next morning, she breaks the tail light. She will realize that she'll get another round of discipline, but has decided that whatever it is, is worth it. Where does this put you?
My wife and I already made the decision not to have children, so I'm skirting a few arrows on my own part.
I'll echo a few other statements that there is a difference between spanking and beating. Much like the military, I think that you need to go experience something before you can put others through it.
Duke did get the Leash/muzzle theory right. Parenting is a 24hour job. Not something you can do when you feel like it. I whole heartedly agree with that point. I just wish a few more parents out there would understand that. On my way home last night I had to hit the grocery store. There was a husband and wife in there, with 4 kids. Husband pushing one cart, wife pushing the other. The 4 kids were running around, opening and slamming freezer doors, tossing loaves of bread at each other, along with a few other things. At one point, the wife was in one aisle, yelling at kids in the adjacent aisle.
And yes, both parents were extremely overweight (refernce Vat_man's eating thread). The parents had no respect for the other shoppers, and the kids were picking up on that.
Parenting is one of the toughest jobs, but the easiest to get. You only have to screw up once.
Well, that's too long-winded posts of the day...More to come tomorrow.
AO
He notes that he was spanked only once in his childhood. What other methods/actions did your parents use to discipline you? I'm interested, as I lean more towards Gil's theory that the rod is a last resort.
I'm also interested to learn how you plan on dealing with the young lady now that she has figured out that there is a price to pay (even if she doesn't know the cost) for her actions. What discourse will you have when she gets mad at you and knocks a tail light out of the pontiac, in return. Does she escalate the retaliation? For instance, she eats all the ice cream in the freezer. You send her to her room, and ground her for a week. The next morning, she breaks the tail light. She will realize that she'll get another round of discipline, but has decided that whatever it is, is worth it. Where does this put you?
My wife and I already made the decision not to have children, so I'm skirting a few arrows on my own part.
I'll echo a few other statements that there is a difference between spanking and beating. Much like the military, I think that you need to go experience something before you can put others through it.
Duke did get the Leash/muzzle theory right. Parenting is a 24hour job. Not something you can do when you feel like it. I whole heartedly agree with that point. I just wish a few more parents out there would understand that. On my way home last night I had to hit the grocery store. There was a husband and wife in there, with 4 kids. Husband pushing one cart, wife pushing the other. The 4 kids were running around, opening and slamming freezer doors, tossing loaves of bread at each other, along with a few other things. At one point, the wife was in one aisle, yelling at kids in the adjacent aisle.
And yes, both parents were extremely overweight (refernce Vat_man's eating thread). The parents had no respect for the other shoppers, and the kids were picking up on that.
Parenting is one of the toughest jobs, but the easiest to get. You only have to screw up once.
Well, that's too long-winded posts of the day...More to come tomorrow.
AO
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