Patch Release Notes and Discussion Thread

[FLX1981]

However i agree in general on the fact that having to waste so much time to play properly (patches, settings etc) is really incredible.. i'm still trying to figure out what the hell have been tested by the WMD guys. I think they should have proper testing and not only guys getting enthusiast about lapping alone in time trial.

Well first of all, they didnt only have us to test the game, they also had external QA. Which did a really, really awful job, no doubt about it. If it would have been only us and we would have been told so, there would have been volunteers to test the career thoroughly, of course. Then some bugs were console exclusive (like the ghosting AA or the need to assign buttons to the handbrake, KERS etc) and since we couldnt test the console version, we had no chance to find those. Then some bugs were there only shortly before release or in the release version. For example I personally did 10+ races in the rain against AI in the ~ 2 years since rain was incorporated, with no problems. No idea when they started to be unbeatable in those conditions, like in the release version (admittedly, I havent played the game much in the months before release for personal reasons). And lastly, there were guys who put in hundrets and even thousands of hours to test the game and give feedback, including a large group of guys who did 2 races a week plus training races and logged all the bugs they found. Without them, the online part wouldnt nearly be as smooth as it is.

To be honest, your post is quite ignorant and insulting. Maybe you should remember that without us WMD members, you wouldnt have the game on your hard drive right now.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

How does WMD misses the Evo X FQ400 final gear then ? It uses 6 speed final of 4.06 instead the correct 4.687 final of 5 speed ? Just one tiny example of cars inaccuracies, the Evo X has several ( spring rate & sway bar rate ). How many years the Evo X has been in Pcars during development ? How does the front helical LSD implemented in Evo X pcars, S-ACD and AYC rear diff ? Casey Ringley acknowledge the error recently as well as Clio Cup "inconsistency" - using Mk3 springs, but after patch 2.5, it's still not yet fixed, is it ?

I noticed the Evo X, 1M, Clio and a few others within my short play time borrowing my mate's PS4 and a few hours playing at his house.

 

[FLX1981]

You know what, you are right. I dont know either how we didnt find every last bug and error in the game and why we didnt fix everything with a hammer. Jesus, what a useless bunch we are.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

You know what, you are right. I dont know either how we didnt find every last bug and error in the game and why we didnt fix everything with a hammer. Jesus, what a useless bunch we are.

What I wrote was basic stuff, car data, the very first step of building a car model. Maybe not many WMD member have driven Evo X or has experience with car technical data or they don't really care if the cars are accurate ? I saw only one WMD member has done quite nice work, Jussi, but he also misses a lot of important stuff, which shown in the release Pcars and his OEM style setups.

Does SMS build proper AWD physics system that can cope with Evo AWD system - AYC and ACD on older gen and S-AWC package on Evo X ? The torque vectoring calculation and differential for front and rear axle would need complex modelling to work, and also a proper center differential model. The closest one I have seen is in GT5/6 Evos AYC + ACD, but those are still not perfect as the other parts like tire and suspension are still primitive.

 

[FLX1981]

The honest truth is: I dont know about the Evo because I personally dont care much about that car, so I trusted the guys that do to test it as thoroughly and make it as accurate as possible. At a quick glance, the physics discussion thread for the Evo is 35 pages long, so if you are a WMD member (which I presume you are not, otherwise you wouldnt say that only Jussi did some good physics work), the answers to your questions are in there. The discussion about the final drive is on page 2/3.

And thats it from my side. Sorry, but I dont want to waste my time with this anymore. I ve said what I had to say, not to you, but to paulpg. Of course we members didnt d a 100% perfect job because we didnt discover ever last fault in the game. But there is a lot between that and what he said, or saying we didnt care about accurancy.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

The honest truth is: I dont know about the Evo because I personally dont care much about that car, so I trusted the guys that do to test it as thoroughly and make it as accurate as possible. At a quick glance, the physics discussion thread for the Evo is 35 pages long, so if you are a WMD member (which I presume you are not, otherwise you wouldnt say that only Jussi did some good physics work), the answers to your questions are in there. The discussion about the final drive is on page 2/3.

And thats it from my side. Sorry, but I dont want to waste my time with this anymore. I ve said what I had to say, not to you, but to paulpg. Of course we members didnt d a 100% perfect job because we didnt discover ever last fault in the game. But there is a lot between that and what he said, or saying we didnt care about accurancy.

I'm not a WMD member, otherwise I would have been in the discussion and knew the answer If you can read the thread, why did WMD used 4.062 for final drive ? Did anyone mentioned the FQ400 uses Eibach Pro Kit springs which the rate are known and OEM sway bar also have been tested/measured by Eibach ? Also why the LSD is locked in Evo X Pcars ? Did it include rear AYC, ACD and front helical LSD ? The FQ400 4B11 engine also can rev to 8000 RPM revlimit

I knew Nic Hamilton did some test drive on the Evo X and the stock setup basically Nic tune, which may be one of the reason.

 

[NLxAROSA]

I think these are all valid questions and I also think the answer is known: in case of the Clio and Evo it's simply using the wrong documentation (e.g. for Clio wrong year model). So yes, these cars are configured properly, but the starting point (the documentation) was incorrect. Then again, nobody at SMS/WMD is being anal about it and inconsistencies/errors are fixed as they are discovered. I inquired as to why the fixes weren't in for 2.5 BTW, they should be in for 3.0.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I think these are all valid questions and I also think the answer is known: in case of the Clio and Evo it's simply using the wrong documentation (e.g. for Clio wrong year model). So yes, these cars are configured properly, but the starting point (the documentation) was incorrect. Then again, nobody at SMS/WMD is being anal about it and inconsistencies/errors are fixed as they are discovered. I inquired as to why the fixes weren't in for 2.5 BTW, they should be in for 3.0.

I do really hope Pcars 2 will have more anal WMDers I plan to buy the 2nd installment after I read user reviews and a few patches I saw the Evo VI Pcars 2 test video, that car if done right should be awesome If WMD need more documentation, I have technical docs for Evo X which covers in detail how the S-AWC system works including torque vectoring calculations and workshop manuals for Evo IV to VI.

 

[ozwheels]

I do really hope Pcars 2 will have more anal WMDers I plan to buy the 2nd installment after I read user reviews and a few patches I saw the Evo VI Pcars 2 test video, that car if done right should be awesome If WMD need more documentation, I have technical docs for Evo X which covers in detail how the S-AWC system works including torque vectoring calculations and workshop manuals for Evo IV to VI.

Just my opinion but take a step back and look at what your getting for $60. The level of detail your getting into for every single cars physics and modeling will never happen for $60. I understand your a realistic as possible fanatic and I've seen some of your stuff from Gran Turismo as well. There's nothing wrong with being passionate about having correct info but there's a line between being over critical and passionate.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Just my opinion but take a step back and look at what your getting for $60. The level of detail your getting into for every single cars physics and modeling will never happen for $60. I understand your a realistic as possible fanatic and I've seen some of your stuff from Gran Turismo as well. There's nothing wrong with being passionate about having correct info but there's a line between being over critical and passionate.

Correct is not equal to being over critical, Pcars only has less than 100 cars and many years to develop, making sure at least the road cars correct in basic car data values like spring, weight/distribution, LSD and gear ratio is not much to ask, considering there are many WMD members who can test and research Why have elaborate and sophisticated tire model + physics engine, only to have the cars with inaccurate data being simulated ? Have you ever driven an Evo X 5 speed ? Imagine how different it perform alone with the 4.06 final compared to the 4.687 final ( the correct one ). I was hoping Pcars would be the 1st game that gets the basic right 100%, many others have failed .

For the game price, no, I would prefer buying the game when it matured ( patches and fixes ), my experience with PS4 was not nice, I was in constant fear of when it will freeze or crash, and in the end I couldn't even saved a tune. So, Pcars 2 for me, maybe after 6 months release on PS4.

 

[ozwheels]

Correct is not equal to being over critical, Pcars only has less than 100 cars and many years to develop, making sure at least the road cars correct in basic car data values like spring, weight/distribution, LSD and gear ratio is not much to ask, considering there are many WMD members who can test and research Why have elaborate and sophisticated tire model + physics engine, only to have the cars with inaccurate data being simulated ? Have you ever driven an Evo X 5 speed ? Imagine how different it perform alone with the 4.06 final compared to the 4.687 final ( the correct one ). I was hoping Pcars would be the 1st game that gets the basic right 100%, many others have failed .

For the game price, no, I would prefer buying the game when it matured ( patches and fixes ), my experience with PS4 was not nice, I was in constant fear of when it will freeze or crash, and in the end I couldn't even saved a tune. So, Pcars 2 for me, maybe after 6 months release on PS4.

Have you driven an Evo X 5 speed? If so then what does it matter if it's dead accurate in game, you can drive the real thing. It's going to be just as fun in game regardless of the basic data.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Have you driven an Evo X 5 speed? If so then what does it matter if it's dead accurate in game, you can drive the real thing. It's going to be just as fun in game regardless of the basic data.

That kind of response laughable, people play car sim game to simulate the real car as close as possible, which is what Pcars tried to achieve and becomes the sales pitch. If you telling me to drive the real car instead, you have missed the point. I have driven Evo X ( with over 400HP ) in Sydney few years ago, not mine, but I have driven it to over 200kmh on the highway, and really pushed it on mountain roads, and having Pcars with 4.06 final totally ruins the car character, it's acceleration from rolling speed , boost and off boost, out of corner performance on lower gears are all off If you can forgive such mistake and still have fun, good for you. If Pcars didn't lock most of the settings and have more range of value adjustment for sway bar and spring rate for all cars, I might buy Pcars on PS4 this year and maybe open a replica garage too, but that's not gonna happen now

Do you have GT6 ? If you do, try my FQ400 posted in my garage thread here, it's GT6, so it has worse tire model, but you can get the idea how the car should accelerate and how quick it sprints to 100kmh, almost comparable to Nissan GTR ( early gen )

 

[killerjimbag]

That kind of response laughable, people play car sim game to simulate the real car as close as possible, which is what Pcars tried to achieve and becomes the sales pitch. If you telling me to drive the real car instead, you have missed the point. I have driven Evo X ( with over 400HP ) in Sydney few years ago, not mine, but I have driven it to over 200kmh on the highway, and really pushed it on mountain roads, and having Pcars with 4.06 final totally ruins the car character, it's acceleration from rolling speed , boost and off boost, out of corner performance on lower gears are all off If you can forgive such mistake and still have fun, good for you. If Pcars didn't lock most of the settings and have more range of value adjustment for sway bar and spring rate for all cars, I might buy Pcars on PS4 this year and maybe open a replica garage too, but that's not gonna happen now

Do you have GT6 ? If you do, try my FQ400 posted in my garage thread here, it's GT6, so it has worse tire model, but you can get the idea how the car should accelerate and how quick it sprints to 100kmh, almost comparable to Nissan GTR ( early gen )

Bro your kidding right? It's a video game,if you want the feeling of driving a real car,go freaking drive a "real" car.
A video game "replica" is a joke. It feels nothing close to real.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Bro your kidding right? It's a video game,if you want the feeling of driving a real car,go freaking drive a "real" car.
A video game "replica" is a joke. It feels nothing close to real.

You are playing it too right ? if all game devs follow your way of thinking, racing sim would be worse and worse. A sim is built to simulate as realistic as possible, if using the right data ( replicating correctly ) is a joke, I have nothing to say to you other than good for you

I have driven the real Evo X and Pcars is nothing compared to the real car, there I said it, it's just a game, but I want the most of out of it You see how much work I put on GT6 replica garage, it's a hobby of mine, other than real life cars

 

[Johnnypenso]

As informative and entertaining as this recent discussion is surrounded the bugs, glitches and errors in PCars, it doesn't really have anything to do with Patch Notes and Discussion. It really belongs in the...you guessed it...Bugs, Glitches and Errors thread.

 

[killerjimbag]

You are playing it too right ? if all game devs follow your way of thinking, racing sim would be worse and worse. A sim is built to simulate as realistic as possible, if using the right data ( replicating correctly ) is a joke, I have nothing to say to you other than good for you

I have driven the real Evo X and Pcars is nothing compared to the real car, there I said it, it's just a game, but I want the most of out of it You see how much work I put on GT6 replica garage, it's a hobby of mine, other than real life cars

What do you use to drive your cars with in GT and PCars a controller?
If so,then the conversation is irrelevant.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

What do you use to drive your cars with in GT and PCars a controller?
If so,then the conversation is irrelevant.

Yep, more excuses, so all Xbone and PS4 PCars players should play with wheel to become relevant. I drove GT6 on DS2 and Pcars on DS4, no assist as usual and apparently Pcars ABS is flawed as well just like GT6 ABS, although in different way. I posted about it on bugs glitches thread and I'm pretty sure WMD member can confirm the ABS issue.

4.06 final on Evo X accelerate the same with a wheel and a controller, and it does not accelerate or drive like with 4.687 of the real car.

You are really like some of the guys I read at Pcars forum, I'm not trying to make Pcars worse, but making it better, otherwise why would I get in touch with WMD member, passing infos on Clios, Evo X and 1M to the physics lead, Casey Ringley ? They listened and their response were positive, which in 3.0 update will reflect ( changes to the car )

 

[diesel97]

Yep, more excuses, so all Xbone and PS4 PCars players should play with wheel to become relevant. I drove GT6 on DS2 and Pcars on DS4, no assist as usual and apparently Pcars ABS is flawed as well just like GT6 ABS, although in different way. I posted about it on bugs glitches thread and I'm pretty sure WMD member can confirm the ABS issue.

4.06 final on Evo X accelerate the same with a wheel and a controller, and it does not accelerate or drive like with 4.687 of the real car.

You are really like some of the guys I read at Pcars forum, I'm not trying to make Pcars worse, but making it better, otherwise why would I get in touch with WMD member, passing infos on Clios, Evo X and 1M to the physics lead, Casey Ringley ? They listened and their response were positive, which in 3.0 update will reflect ( changes to the car )

All i want to know is , does the paint chips code match the game ? I think they are a shade off.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

All i want to know is , does the paint chips code match the game ? I think they are a shade off.

 

[killerjimbag]

Yep, more excuses, so all Xbone and PS4 PCars players should play with wheel to become relevant. I drove GT6 on DS2 and Pcars on DS4, no assist as usual and apparently Pcars ABS is flawed as well just like GT6 ABS, although in different way. I posted about it on bugs glitches thread and I'm pretty sure WMD member can confirm the ABS issue.

4.06 final on Evo X accelerate the same with a wheel and a controller, and it does not accelerate or drive like with 4.687 of the real car.

You are really like some of the guys I read at Pcars forum, I'm not trying to make Pcars worse, but making it better, otherwise why would I get in touch with WMD member, passing infos on Clios, Evo X and 1M to the physics lead, Casey Ringley ? They listened and their response were positive, which in 3.0 update will reflect ( changes to the car )

Would you like to reflect how you get a realistic feel when you cannot set up your controller like a wheel? I know the force feedback must almost break your thumbs. So how many hours have you put into this game? I know, it only seems to crash on your buddies system,not mine. I'm glad your contributing to making this game better. But please,there is a way different feel between a controller and a wheel. Having tried both,different game with a wheel. How did you play the game with no TV?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Would you like to reflect how you get a realistic feel when you cannot set up your controller like a wheel? I know the force feedback must almost break your thumbs. So how many hours have you put into this game? I know, it only seems to crash on your buddies system,not mine. I'm glad your contributing to making this game better. But please,there is a way different feel between a controller and a wheel. Having tried both,different game with a wheel. How did you play the game with no TV?

I played way back - closer to a month ago, I actually posted about it ( borrowing the PS4 ) and you gave me an advice to do fresh install right ?. I still had the TV back then and I only had about 4 hours play time ( enough to notice the cars that I drove like FQ400, 1M, Clio etc ), also had couple of freezes and crashes, no biggie.

For wheel vs controller, I can drive just fine with controller + no assist. I can still feel if the car going under or over, it it rolls too much, if it dives or squat or wheel lock up or slides or spins. Controller lacking in FFB details of a wheel but it does not mean that controller players experience and opinion takes a back seat.
Some of the inaccuracy are easily felt even on controller, final drive/gear ratio, steering ratio, caster, spring rate and sway bar rate all will give distinct car to drive. The real Evo X for example have non adjustable caster at about 4 degrees - a lowered one like FQ400 would still be in 4 degree range or moved slightly, while Pcars has way higher ( locked ), it affects the car handling/turn in, rear sway bar OE rate at over 60Nmm, Pcars can only go to 51Nmm and these are easily noticed on controller, even more so on a wheel of how the FQ400 handling balance altered.
Car behavior should still be there regardless of input device.

 

[rams1de]

@Ridox2JZGTE If you really want to help SMS make PCars a 'proper' sim, join WMD where you can be directly involved.

I know it means you'll have to spend some money but think of it as therapy for your OCD

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

@Ridox2JZGTE If you really want to help SMS make PCars a 'proper' sim, join WMD where you can be directly involved.

I know it means you'll have to spend some money but think of it as therapy for your OCD

I already can get in touch with Casey Ringley if I wanted to contribute giving data on cars , so I don't really need to join I have collected a wealth of car data from my real life work, and hobbies.

 

[azidahaka]

I'm a bit surprised by the way a precious resource and user like @Ridox2JZGTE is being brushed off.

 

[killerjimbag]

It's not being brushed off or disrespected. The only video game I have ever played that was actually close to real life was NASCAR 2003 on PC by Seirra Papyrus. They still are and were the benchmark of all video games. Hence IRacing.
It was not just NASCAR, but they had the most accurate data for cars.
We all can complain about this, that,and everything. At the end of the day,developers will input data from various people, whether it be a pro driver or a car producer. That's what you get. If a driver says this is what he used, that's what you get.
Pretty simple.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'm a bit surprised by the way a precious resource and user like @Ridox2JZGTE is being brushed off.

Brushed off? He's free to join the PCars or PCars2 forum and contribute the same as the rest of us. Posting technical details about PCars on GTP is fodder for discussion only, the place to post technical data if the goal is to affect change is on the PCars forum itself, you know, where all the PCars staff hang out and gather information.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I'm a member in Pcars forum and I already did contribute my part with the help of WMD member from here, which how Casey was informed about the Clio and Evo X I also have some setup made in Pcars Setup Database, although these setups needs test drivers

 

[Spooky Wooky]

Brushed off? He's free to join the PCars or PCars2 forum and contribute the same as the rest of us. Posting technical details about PCars on GTP is fodder for discussion only, the place to post technical data if the goal is to affect change is on the PCars forum itself, you know, where all the PCars staff hang out and gather information.

He's been doing that, does that mean he's not allowed to post it on here? OK, so maybe it's the wrong thread, but his argument is still valid. His level of detail should be applauded, not laughed at and discredited.

If pCARS is classed as a sim, then all the car data should be as accurate as possible and it just so happens that Rido knows a lot about 2 of the cars in the game. If other people know every last detail about some of the other cars, and the information for those cars in-game was incorrect, they might not be as forthcoming due to comments like "if you like the car that much, why don't you go drive/marry it?"

 

[mister dog]

4.06 final on Evo X accelerate the same with a wheel and a controller, and it does not accelerate or drive like with 4.687 of the real car.

You are really like some of the guys I read at Pcars forum, I'm not trying to make Pcars worse, but making it better, otherwise why would I get in touch with WMD member, passing infos on Clios, Evo X and 1M to the physics lead, Casey Ringley ? They listened and their response were positive, which in 3.0 update will reflect ( changes to the car )

Good to hear. That's the nice thing about this game; see an inaccuracy? Just pass it on to the devs directly and there's a good chance it will be corrected.

 

[killerjimbag]

You are playing it too right ? if all game devs follow your way of thinking, racing sim would be worse and worse. A sim is built to simulate as realistic as possible, if using the right data ( replicating correctly ) is a joke, I have nothing to say to you other than good for you

I have driven the real Evo X and Pcars is nothing compared to the real car, there I said it, it's just a game, but I want the most of out of it You see how much work I put on GT6 replica garage, it's a hobby of mine, other than real life cars

You talk about simulation correct?
Would you like to elaborate how you simulate driving a car with a controller in a video game,compared to a wheel in real life?You talk about real correct data etc,but you use a pair of sticks to replicate a steering wheel and whatever you use for throttle, clutch and brake? Hardly replicating real world dont ya think?So your seat time in the "real"Evo was how long? I own a 71 Chevelle in my real world,GT6 is not even close nor is anyones" replica".
Having put about 30000 miles of seat time in it,I can speak from real driving experience. There is no video game that will replicate putting your arse in the seat,strapping on the belts and turning the key. Unless of course you happen to be lucky enough to be a test driver for a race team with a $500000 "simulator" which includes a wheel,pedals and shifter.