PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[Outspacer]

The situation has deteriorated markedly since the penalties were relaxed and the stats are showing clearly that SR99 is achieved easily and that 'clean' drivers are being matched against people who wouldn't have been in the same arena previously. There were still the bad eggs in there, but the chance of meeting them now has increased vastly.

It's true that removing penalties has laid bare the deficiencies of the current SR system, as it became far too dependant on the input from them. My points focus on SR in isolation because that's what chooses who you get to race with next time, which I think is the most important aspect. In every version so far SR 99 has been too easy to get to and keep mainly because the 99 limit is just a cap - there's a large allowance of +SR given in race C, so PD compensated by making -SR amounts higher (and tied it to inaccurate blame), but that leads to unstable SR scores (as in, it's not right that a single clean race C gets someone from SR 75 to SR 99!).

The debate above is excellent, with many wonderful suggestions for improvement being made, but I doubt very much whether a system clever enough to distinguish between accident, or intent, can be developed. That said, in real life on the roads, the driver doing the hitting is invariably to blame because they've left insufficient margin to allow for errors made by the third party. The same rationale could be applied by introducing front impact sensors, which attract penalty, of even disqualification. It follows that off track penalties for the victim would have to be negated. Barging could be more complex to identify, but recording impact following a change in course on a straight must be achievable.

As @ROCKET JOE says, in this theory distinguishing accident from intent actually doesn't matter much for SR, because SR is just a statistic. Both are driving flaws. There are some clear cases where blame can be assigned - my favourite example is someone coming towards a corner so fast they won't make it round unless they hit someone - but at the other end of the scale there will always be subtle cases where an automatic system cannot decide whose fault it was. Once you get to those cases it's better to just give an equal -SR to each because the alternative is very likely to provide a way for a dirty driver to reliably give clean drivers penalties!

Dirty drivers in such a system will of course tend to stop doing the things that get penalties and try other ways to be dirty. To my mind, even if the penalty system can only stop the worst cases it's a win - it's one thing to get passed in a dirty way that loses you a place, but it's far worse if you lose multiple places because of an incorrect penalty or being punted miles off the track. With a strict but fair SR system the habitually dirty drivers should end up with a lower SR, and won't get matched with the cleaner drivers again.

I'm reasonably certain that an SR system could be devised that provides far cleaner racing at 80+ SR. Below that, as you say, dirty drivers could well be mixed together with the simply more accident prone. I don't see any easy solution for that, because again, dirty drivers will adapt into whatever they can get away with. OTOH, the accident prone just need to practice and their progress is up to them.

My thoughts aren't trying to be a complete solution, just a starting point and direction. With the SR calc, the only number I'm convinced of is that at SR 98 it should only be possible to get to SR 99 with a completely clean race! With penalties I'm just saying start with the clearest ones and work towards the more subtle - but at times it's ok for the developer to say "we can't do that reliably yet". Sadly I don't think there are any simple universal rules that can be applied without opening the door for dirty drivers to game them; that's what PD have been trying, this thread has documented the results, and it still warrants its title!

Thanks @Sven Jurgens and @Outspacer for your insane effort.

Cheers!

 

[Jagman XK8]

@kjeldsen Where have you been There are no more penalties, or at least it's extremely rare now to get a contact penalty.

Mainly I'm referring to this rule in racing, which is the one that seems to be least known nor adhered to online:
If the driver on the inside is ahead at corner exit, it is the duty of the driver on the outside to back out or take evasive action to avoid a collision.
In the old penalty system I would have gotten a penalty there, since contact, car hits wall. And I chose that because situations like that were responsible for so many BS penalties. The biggest problem is that people think that having a nose in means they have a right to racing line / space on the track.

I really wish that PD put some racecraft guides in the game!

Tomorrow is going to be fun, Spa in the rain, GR.3, whatever can go wrong

I had a great race this morning (and 2 crap fests) having a great battle with one other car all race long. We went into the bus stop side by side twice with no issues! Full race:

I tap the wall once (on purpose) to avoid him rather than bump him when we're not sure who is going to go where after the bus stop in lap 2 but otherwise a contact free race.

Anyway, overtaking through the bus stop can be done, being on the outside you got to yield.

What struck me immediately was the difference in behaviour shown by A & B drivers. In the C races yesterday, the majority ended up in a crash fest at the first and second tight bends. Are they all like that, or is this just a clean example? It seems that the demolition derby kids probably won't ever reach B. I wish I could just to get away from them!

 

[Sven Jurgens]

What struck me immediately was the difference in behaviour shown by A & B drivers. In the C races yesterday, the majority ended up in a crash fest at the first and second tight bends. Are they all like that, or is this just a clean example? It seems that the demolition derby kids probably won't ever reach B. I wish I could just to get away from them!

No, the race I posted is an anomaly nowadays Yesterday and last week most of my races I ended up in the top half (from last) without ever passing anyone, simply avoiding cars crashing each other off. Actually the higher you go in DR the more 'desperate' it gets now. I was glad to drop back to DR.B yesterday since the DR.A+ / DR.A races were worse.

Sunday morning race, most of the crash kiddies sleep in. I switched to Death Stranding now since the afternoon crowd is usually no fun to race with in the weekend, without penalties even less. Hopefully all the over motivated reckless drivers run themselves off in the rain tomorrow at Spa. Raidillon lap 1 is going to be a major mess though, then a pile up at the penalty zone (right before the braking zone) from all the track limit penalties.

 

[stpatty]

No, the race I posted is an anomaly nowadays Yesterday and last week most of my races I ended up in the top half (from last) without ever passing anyone, simply avoiding cars crashing each other off. Actually the higher you go in DR the more 'desperate' it gets now. I was glad to drop back to DR.B yesterday since the DR.A+ / DR.A races were worse.

Sunday morning race, most of the crash kiddies sleep in. I switched to Death Stranding now since the afternoon crowd is usually no fun to race with in the weekend, without penalties even less. Hopefully all the over motivated reckless drivers run themselves off in the rain tomorrow at Spa. Raidillon lap 1 is going to be a major mess though, then a pile up at the penalty zone (right before the braking zone) from all the track limit penalties.

You spend more time with the game than me, but I noticed today at Dragon Trail I got a track limit penalty at the first corner when I got lunged and forced wide to the right hand side. Is that a common thing, and is it possible to game at a place like there at Spa?

 

[Sven Jurgens]

You spend more time with the game than me, but I noticed today at Dragon Trail I got a track limit penalty at the first corner when I got lunged and forced wide to the right hand side. Is that a common thing, and is it possible to game at a place like there at Spa?

Sadly yes, hence my worries about Raidillon at Spa tomorrow. Very easy to get track limit penalties there and with the way people are driving it will either be die or go outside the lines. it's better to get hit first before leaving the track since then the game still forgives the out of track limits excursion. It's backwards, penalty for avoiding idiots.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Here you're following someone pretty close into T1:

So are you saying you know and trust that person and that's why you're following at a distance where if they braked e.g. 5m early, you'd have a choice between hitting them or driving off the track? I still say it would not be seen as acceptable in real life for that driver in front to take you out by braking 5m early, the attitude wouldn't be that the driver behind has to follow far enough back to deal with someone doing that.

I don't know if you noticed, but all those drivers were actually decent. You just reinforced my point. We were all braking in a braking zone and no one did anything intentional to take someone out.

Not quite sure what you are trying to illustrate there.

But it seems to me, that you are vary narrowly approaching this topic. Sure, maybe you can split hairs over 5 meters when we are talking about GR3 cars, or maybe ever GR4 cars, but how do you reconcile the N class cars?

Turn on BoP and go to Catalunya (because I think this is one of the best places to illustrate this). Take the N500 GT3RS (on SS tires, again, so you can see the difference) and see where you brake for T1. It's almost as deep as the GR3 cars, but far before the cones. Now take any of the "road cars" also with BoP and SS tires. They have a lot of downforce and grip, so they brake a little deeper than the Porsche. Now, take something a little more middle of the road in terms of N 500 like the Diablo Gt, or the the AMG GT, and notice that you need to start braking about 50 meters earlier. Not 5, 50.

So, you'd better be heads up in an N500 race around that track on street tires.


Either way, braking in a braking zone is normal. As I mentioned, based on the color changing driving line of the past, there exists the technological know how to determine if a car is braking far earlier and harder than it should, ergo, a "brake check" and not just someone braking a little earlier to save tires or whatever.


Either way, I am in agreement with @Sven Jurgens, and the game I suppose, that a "brake zone" for our purposes is when the suggested gear indicator flashes.


Thanks for finding that video though. I always wonder what I look like in other people's videos


P.S. In that race I had a coming together with Chalkface_Killa. I came down the inside of him at the chicane and instead of leaving room, he turns in. You can see it int he rear view at the end of lap 6. I thought it was a good move until he turned.

 

[Hygrade B]

Yes, I know all the bad side I been on it many times.

I know it's not great but I rather that than what's happening in this week's daily & FIA.
People run you clean of the track & drive off like it's how you race & that's is not just in one race. Before yes it would happen but that person would get a penalty & yes the innocent get punished to sometimes.
To me it seems everyone happy as it is, it worst .

I had my DR B rating for basically day, I watched back the races I had & I seen drivers you can tell are not B rated.

1 driver would go into ghost mode to take corners because it could not.
1 driver didn't know about braking or brake button was broken because each corner that car run in the back of the person in front no penalties & drove off.
1 driver had every assist possible and still could not control the car, this car didn't hit you from behind it was taking out people each time it lost control.
Bad drivers are getting better DR because of there bad driving.
That was just in one race.

I could go on but I don't need to tell you all about what bad driving you have seen.
Only penalties i have seen are for corner cutting & go outside of track limits nothing else.


I understand what everyone is saying but how it's now is not better than we had before update.

 

[Jagman XK8]

No, the race I posted is an anomaly nowadays Yesterday and last week most of my races I ended up in the top half (from last) without ever passing anyone, simply avoiding cars crashing each other off. Actually the higher you go in DR the more 'desperate' it gets now. I was glad to drop back to DR.B yesterday since the DR.A+ / DR.A races were worse.

Sunday morning race, most of the crash kiddies sleep in. I switched to Death Stranding now since the afternoon crowd is usually no fun to race with in the weekend, without penalties even less. Hopefully all the over motivated reckless drivers run themselves off in the rain tomorrow at Spa. Raidillon lap 1 is going to be a major mess though, then a pile up at the penalty zone (right before the braking zone) from all the track limit penalties.

You surprise me, as I would have thought that drivers at that level would know and behave better. Races in B this afternoon were absolute carnage, but I did manage to increase my points by 148, so not all bad, but still a long way from DR B.

 

[barak181]

I understand what everyone is saying but how it's now is not better than we had before update.

I agree that now things have basically just devolved to bumper cars, unless you've been lucky enough to draw a lobby of drivers intent on racing clean. Like many of the penalty updates since I've been playing Sports mode, things have swung to the other extreme. And like many other people, I somehow keep holding on to the hope that PD will find some sort of middle ground soon.

 

[Voodoovaj]

You surprise me, as I would have thought that drivers at that level would know and behave better. Races in B this afternoon were absolute carnage, but I did manage to increase my points by 148, so not all bad, but still a long way from DR B.

Ok, maybe there needs to be a different perspective. People play by the rules, whatever those rules may be.

I kick-box, and it's all about getting people into bad positions so you can absolutely injure them. You want to leg kick them until they can't stand. Yo are TRYING to hurt them. They are trying to hurt you. Those are the rules.

People talking about "clean" racing at this point is simply foolish. It's about fast racing. Races that are clean at the moment, are going to be races where there is no leeway to pull so called dirty moves, because dirty moves take time.



On a side note, in that video posted above with Eric GTR, those wheel guys sure seem to have a HUGE braking difference/advantage. I am going to try the 911 on -2, but I know that -3 on almost any car would have me locked up and sliding off track. He can also brake later than I can and still hold the line. I don't know what PD did, but it sure seems not only imbalanced, but ill advised.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

You surprise me, as I would have thought that drivers at that level would know and behave better. Races in B this afternoon were absolute carnage, but I did manage to increase my points by 148, so not all bad, but still a long way from DR B.

Most do, but it only takes a few bad ones to mess up the entire race. The problem is that all those yoyo SR/DR drivers are currently in SR.S. Before you would maybe meet one per race who did some damage and got called back by the penalty zone or had a DR reset to be gone from the high level races for a while. Now you can have as many as 5 in a race all fighting each other and bumping others out of the way. The fast dirty driver is way more dangerous than dirty drivers at DR.B and below. Plus bad behavior leads to retaliation from normally clean drivers adding to the mess.

@Voodoovaj Unfortunately the fastest way to make a corner is to use the car in front to brake or as a guide rail through the corner. Dirty moves save time if you do it right and disable the other car long enough to be out of reach of retaliation. Or simply do it in the last lap / final corner. I've picked up a ton of free positions from fast dirty drivers taking out the car in front of them while losing time on them. Dirty is faster.

 

[Hygrade B]

Ok, maybe there needs to be a different perspective. People play by the rules, whatever those rules may be.

I kick-box, and it's all about getting people into bad positions so you can absolutely injure them. You want to leg kick them until they can't stand. Yo are TRYING to hurt them. They are trying to hurt you. Those are the rules.

People talking about "clean" racing at this point is simply foolish. It's about fast racing. Races that are clean at the moment, are going to be races where there is no leeway to pull so called dirty moves, because dirty moves take time.

.

So are you saying we should hit each other off track because we are not fast enough to pass them?
Are you saying ram a person off the track to get an advantage?
Are you saying racing is a contact sport?

Please explain so I don't get the idea you support bad driving
If you do ok that's you way off driving & I will make sure it your behind me I will move.

 

[Krypton78]

Its hard to say in general if the races without the penalty system nowadays are cleaner or not, only PD can look into them and count the incidents or whatever data they collect. So whats left for us are only our subjective impressions.

I have 2 accounts in low DR/A+, 1 account in middle DR/A and 1 account in middle DR/B (yes I know its stupid). In general I use only my main account. But out of curiosity I recently raced with all of them several times to look into the different splits. My experience is, there is still much going wrong but it looks far better then before. People seem to respect each other more.

My thinking is, there are 3 reasons:

1. The unfair penaltys before with mostly punishing the wrong one caused frustration which lead to disrespect to the race and the other competitiors. If a system fails on its rules, it causes anarchy.

2. The grid does not get turned upside down/ muddled up with throwing faster drivers to the back of the field because of stupid penaltys. In combination with the psychology effect mentioned in point 1., these drivers tend to fight their way back to the front at any costs usually.

3. The fear of revenge. If I divebomb him, he is free to pay it back without consequences in some of the next corners. Makes no sense to risk this.


But anyway, I hope they are taking the necessary time to come up with an improved system, because still this can't be the final soulution in long term.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Its hard to say in general if the races without the penalty system nowadays are cleaner or not, only PD can look into them and count the incidents or whatever data they collect. So whats left for us are only our subjective impressions.

I have 2 accounts in low DR/A+, 1 account in middle DR/A and 1 account in middle DR/B (yes I know its stupid). In general I use only my main account. But out of curiosity I recently raced with all of them several times to look into the different splits. My experience is, there is still much going wrong but it looks far better then before. People seem to respect each other more.

My thinking is, there are 3 reasons:

1. The unfair penaltys before with mostly punishing the wrong one caused frustration which lead to disrespect to the race and the other competitiors. If a system fails on its rules, it causes anarchy.

2. The grid does not get turned upside down/ muddled up with throwing faster drivers to the back of the field because of stupid penaltys. In combination with the psychology effect mentioned in point 1., these drivers tend to fight their way back to the front at any costs usually.

3. The fear of revenge. If I divebomb him, he is free to pay it back without consequences in some of the next corners. Makes no sense to risk this.


But anyway, I hope they are taking the necessary time to come up with an improved system, because still this can't be the final soulution in long term.

Which race were you doing. I sort of agree with you based on my experience on the Nordschleife, however that track is a penalty system by itself and the race was long enough to stop dumb behavior from paying off.

Last week I've been racing on DT: Seaside and it was the opposite experience. I started at high DR.A and slowly sunk down to DR.B (not qualifying, starting at the back in a sprint race) and picked up a lot more positions from people crashing each other off than normally at that track. I still finished up high enough to slow down my DR slide to B all the way to Saturday despite getting rammed off 4 out of 5 races. Finally in DR.B did my rate of not getting rammed off go up to 1 in 3.

Suzuka was better but I only did half a dozen races there, still burned out on that track. Longer race, more time lost going off, people behave more. Although a lot more people quit than normal in the races I did.



@Invisigoth I'm in here nowadays!

For tomorrow:

Spa x5 x5 GR.3 Audi R8 Bop start 20th 4 laps Pro AI

Dawn rain 6:30
2:40.2 best lap 6th place finish Heavy wet
2:41.5 best lap 6th place finish Intermediates
3:11.2 best lap 20th place finish Racing Hard

Day time rain 11:00
2:50.5 best lap 5th place finish Heavy wet
2:58.1 best lap 20th place finish Intermediates

Dusk rain 20:30
2:46.9 best lap 4th place finish Heavy wet
2:52.6 best lap 20th place finish Intermediates

I hope it will be 11:00 AM time for the race, heavy rain!

Spa without penalties, make sure to be on the inside!

 

[fastone371]

@kjeldsen Where have you been There are no more penalties, or at least it's extremely rare now to get a contact penalty.

@ROCKET JOE Thanks, I'm assuming manga liveries get +SR and Gibli ones double

I tried to get a bit of discussion going about racing rules on reddit by posting a clip where I'm pretty sure I was not in the wrong (open for suggestions otherwise, with reasons)

Mainly I'm referring to this rule in racing, which is the one that seems to be least known nor adhered to online:
If the driver on the inside is ahead at corner exit, it is the duty of the driver on the outside to back out or take evasive action to avoid a collision.
In the old penalty system I would have gotten a penalty there, since contact, car hits wall. And I chose that because situations like that were responsible for so many BS penalties. The biggest problem is that people think that having a nose in means they have a right to racing line / space on the track.

I really wish that PD put some racecraft guides in the game!
.

You did nothing wrong, in fact the other driver should get a penalty just for pulling beside you in that chicane. I just do not understand why someone would even attempt a pass there, both cars lose massive time going side by side thru there or someone ends up unhappy.

 

[jyri]

With the current penalty system, I'm gonna give up on this game for now. I will definitely be back IF it gets fixed.
Not really interested in bumper cars . If I were I'd go to amusement park and drive them there.

 

[Krypton78]

Which race were you doing.

Mostly the FIA races of last 2 rounds. With the DR/B account and partly also with the DR/A account I didn't even qualify because otherwise I'd drive with the front group and wouldn't see the "truth" in the grid- midfield (I know ist not really fair to drive in lower splits but it was for testing and I can say I was cautious).

The top 3-5 is fair in almost any split because there's something to lose and therefore it doesn't reflect how the split "really" is.

 

[Krypton78]

Sorry for double post, but I (tried to) make a simple draw to show what I think. Take the Version before 1.53 (that one which was active the last months), and include this as a condition for detecting divebomb, to-late-braking, dangerous re-entering track or getting blamed for touching an already lost-control car-> which are the biggest problems imo. The car which was not in valid state in moment of contact is to blame when the other one is 2 seconds after contact in an invalid state: sliding/ spinning/ being off track or whatever. It can be developed furthermore by also looking on the inputs and/or building up a table based an "if/and/or" to determine what happend. When in doupt-> shared penaltys.

I'm sure in most cases the guilty car was out of valid state in moment of contact, even with considering the changes of the tyre ware, the weight because of fuel consumption and the slipstream conditions.

There are uncountable data availible of moment of contact when afterwards someone was harmed so it must be possible to determine the precise tolerance ranges for valid state. Could that be really so hard to program? As I said before, I don't think ist a technical challenge in first place for PD, its also a philosophy problem. For example, the problem of messed up qualifyings because of fuel burnings in at least the first 7-10 splits could be avoided so easyly, but they simply did nothing about it since 2 years and then came up with the shortened qualifying sessions -which lowered the problem only a little.

 

[Sean YZF]

I ran 14 races around DTS yesterday, most were clean, usual individual battles/ poor racecraft but they involved 2-3 & rarely intentionally involved others.
The last two races were something else though. In the penultimate race I was in a car would come at high speed into a slow corner and deliberately skittle cars in front, I got done over twice, I followed him on the last lap & he attempted to do the same at every corner, no penalties for at least 5 take outs I witnessed.
In my final race of the night a very aggressive UK driver battered through the ranks, no penalties obviously, this enraged other drivers and it turned into wreckfest. PD def need to reinstate some form of reasonable penalty system. The code appears to be there as I got a 4 sec collision pen at one point when a car went under me at a hairpin turn, I think I must have caused him to have light contact with the inside wall.

 

[Tea_Leaves]

In the C races yesterday, the majority ended up in a crash fest at the first and second tight bends.

Assuming you're referring to (DR) C races, I've experienced similar. I race at this level with a wheel and lately, it doesn't feel like I'm playing GTS anymore. It's equivalent to a 2D shooter where the radar displays bullets and your spaceship (car) needs to avoid them.

I did a race on BH and saw a piece of everything: brake checking, sideswiping, divebombing etc. I was literally gaining positions by the result of cat fights between others and tactically slowing down/maneuvering myself to avoid bombers. Sport Mode is in a sad and embarrassing state at the moment.

 

[Voodoovaj]

So are you saying we should hit each other off track because we are not fast enough to pass them?
Are you saying ram a person off the track to get an advantage?
Are you saying racing is a contact sport?

Please explain so I don't get the idea you support bad driving
If you do ok that's you way off driving & I will make sure it your behind me I will move.

I'm saying that the current rules do nothing to discourage contact, so hoping/expecting people to drive that way is foolish. People play by the rules of game.

At this time, contact is advantageous in lower ranks where losing a little time won't make or break you. Ergo, expect it rather than hoping that it won't happen.

That's a contrast to room full of DR A or above where a slight wiggle can mean a difference of position.

 

[Jagman XK8]

Assuming you're referring to (DR) C races, I've experienced similar. I race at this level with a wheel and lately, it doesn't feel like I'm playing GTS anymore. It's equivalent to a 2D shooter where the radar displays bullets and your spaceship (car) needs to avoid them.

I did a race on BH and saw a piece of everything: brake checking, sideswiping, divebombing etc. I was literally gaining positions by the result of cat fights between others and tactically slowing down/maneuvering myself to avoid bombers. Sport Mode is in a sad and embarrassing state at the moment.

Yes, the DR C races and apologies for not being clear.

It was explained to me some posts ago how the system works, namely that you have to improve your position against others and that points are lost if lower ranked drivers finish better that yourself. So it seems that in order to progress through the ranks, you have to get well into the mix, as staying safe in the back few won't pay dividends. However, by doing so, you risk the wrath of demolition man and I like your analogy of the spaceship dodging the bullets. At times, I feel like a fox running from the hounds and it's a relief to end the daily session with your current rating relatively intact.

 

[vvise]

View attachment 883336

there are far too many exceptions that make this not work. the ranges would have to be big enough that they're not effective anymore.

it also doesn't capture at all leaning on someone through a corner and forcing them off track.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Spa is fun in the rain but I don't know what happened to the track limit penalties. I guess PD forgot that everyone goes slower now so the penalties hardly trigger. Even less penalties!

I did 4 races, it looked mostly clean or not worse than expected. (Huge spread in speed helped) There was cursing at the end of 2 races, I got barge passed in one race, had 2 idiots half behind me on my outside start of one race, trying to take Raidillon 3 wide, gosh didn't work. My best finish was in the last race, 8th from 19th, then I got disconnected waiting for the rest to finish, counts as last. Bah, I'm going outside.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

You did nothing wrong, in fact the other driver should get a penalty just for pulling beside you in that chicane. I just do not understand why someone would even attempt a pass there, both cars lose massive time going side by side thru there or someone ends up unhappy.

Agreed, trying to run two wide through the bus stop chicane against a leading car is just pure destructive behavior. Nothing positive would ever come from that choice. If both drivers did safely make it through side by side, their lowered speed would lose them a lot of time on their lap and risk losing position to the pack. Also, the lead car would never forfeit the position there, so it's a guaranteed lose lose if the trailing car doesn't properly tuck behind the lead car.

If someone is trailing you with an overlap through that specific chicane, you really have no choice but to take them out, because their only tactical gain from that move would be to intentionally take the lead car out.

 

[Mc_Yavel]

Loading Rocket League last week and a pop-up appeared on the main menu saying they took action against a player I and others had reported. I wish this could happened in GTS.

 

[mikeonthebike]

I agree this current lack of penalty system is a complete joke. I'm a hard working individual and when I have the energy after work or on the weekend to drag my wheel setup in front of the TV I'm looking for some GOOD racing I.E. dominance by good racecraft, not below the belt underhanded BS.

I've done one race with the new system and it was a complete joke!!! If this is how racing IRL is then NO race would ever be finished as all cars would be totalled by 2nd lap and there would be several fatalities as well.

I was placed P2 at the start and on the first turn it was dive bomb punt fest. I ended up P5 after first corner then proceeded to follow the aggressors VERY closely while resisting the urge to stoop to their level.

As I followed this group of dirty racers the crashfest that I saw in front of me was discusting. I let them crash and bash and wiggled through the mess to pick up P1 after a few laps then wouldn't you know it I was smashed off to P3 again. I was furious but kept my cool as there was a few laps left and I figured they'd crash each other and give me an opportunity to sneak through again and I was right. I picked up P1 again halfway through the second to last lap.

On the last lap coming up to turn 1 I was watching the rearview mirror to avoid the next divebombfest and it was pure comedy to watch P2 and P3 do their damndest to crash me off again but fail to hit me then both crashed and demoted themselves to mid pack. The final lap I could breath a little sigh of relief as nobody was close enough to crash me off the track and I won the race with fastest lap and clean race bonus.
The after race screen appeared without a single penalty or red mark. Worst race ever!!!

This is demolition derby around a road course!

THIS IS NOT RACING!!!

 

[breeminator]

I don't know if you noticed, but all those drivers were actually decent. You just reinforced my point. We were all braking in a braking zone and no one did anything intentional to take someone out.

Not quite sure what you are trying to illustrate there.

Just that it is normal to follow closely enough that you wouldn't be able to deal with the car in front trying to take you out by braking early, and that the amount by which the car in front could brake early and take you out is smaller than the accuracy with which the game knows where the correct braking point would be. So I think the game trying to work based on where it thinks the correct braking point is might detect dirty driving at 10k DR, say, but not most of the more subtle dirty driving that happens at 30k+ DR.

 

[daan]

@Invisigoth I'm in here nowadays!

For tomorrow:

Spa x5 x5 GR.3 Audi R8 Bop start 20th 4 laps Pro AI

Dawn rain 6:30
2:40.2 best lap 6th place finish Heavy wet
2:41.5 best lap 6th place finish Intermediates
3:11.2 best lap 20th place finish Racing Hard

Day time rain 11:00
2:50.5 best lap 5th place finish Heavy wet
2:58.1 best lap 20th place finish Intermediates

Dusk rain 20:30
2:46.9 best lap 4th place finish Heavy wet
2:52.6 best lap 20th place finish Intermediates

I hope it will be 11:00 AM time for the race, heavy rain!

Spa without penalties, make sure to be on the inside!

Spa is fun in the rain but I don't know what happened to the track limit penalties. I guess PD forgot that everyone goes slower now so the penalties hardly trigger. Even less penalties!

I did 4 races, it looked mostly clean or not worse than expected. (Huge spread in speed helped) There was cursing at the end of 2 races, I got barge passed in one race, had 2 idiots half behind me on my outside start of one race, trying to take Raidillon 3 wide, gosh didn't work. My best finish was in the last race, 8th from 19th, then I got disconnected waiting for the rest to finish, counts as last. Bah, I'm going outside.

These posts have nothing to do with the topic here and should be in the daily race discussion thread. But you know this.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Just that it is normal to follow closely enough that you wouldn't be able to deal with the car in front trying to take you out by braking early, and that the amount by which the car in front could brake early and take you out is smaller than the accuracy with which the game knows where the correct braking point would be. So I think the game trying to work based on where it thinks the correct braking point is might detect dirty driving at 10k DR, say, but not most of the more subtle dirty driving that happens at 30k+ DR.

What makes you think that?

The next time you play, have a look down at the lower left hand corner of the screen. That's where you will see the damage indicator. What we have been discussing is impact force, not just impact. If someone brake checks you, there is going to be either A) enough force to knock them off track, or at least B) enough force to cause damage. If you make contact without causing enough impact force to be of consequence, then no penalty.

It can be detected with accuracy, because it is currently being detected with accuracy.