Penalty system is still a piece of ***

[Chris30]

Yeah those pit glitches are annoying and it's PD's fault for not noticing the bug/error and fixing it. That's why people should not rush while developing a game like this.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I find it rather hilarious that the biggest offenses in the game are currently:

1. Touch the pit entry/exit line
2. Gain a position under yellow flag
3. Go an inch wide in/before certain corners

The least punished offenses

1. Side swiping, pushing/ramming people off
2. Brake checking
3. Corner cutting

 

[sturk0167]

I haven't had any issues with penalties for about a month. The last ones were all track infractions that took me from SR S to B

I'm not sure it works that way. I'm not positive, but I don't think track limit violations cost you SR points. I can see how it looks that way, because the penalty time shows up on your screen.

Nowadays, you can lose a bunch of SR points without any penalty notifications. I dropped from S to B SR last week when racing from the back at Sardegna. I didn't hit any cars hard enough to get a slow down penalty.
I think that now, if you make moderate contact with another car, and it is moved off the racing line, but stays on the track, you'll still get an SR deduction if you pass that other car. Or something like that. @Sven Jurgens might know if that is true.

We would all know for sure if they would bring back the instant on-screen notification when they penalize us. The racing would definitely be cleaner if people were informed when things are costing them points. Another blunder by developers.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I'm not sure it works that way. I'm not positive, but I don't think track limit violations cost you SR points. I can see how it looks that way, because the penalty time shows up on your screen.

Nowadays, you can lose a bunch of SR points without any penalty notifications. I dropped from S to B SR last week when racing from the back at Sardegna. I didn't hit any cars hard enough to get a slow down penalty.
I think that now, if you make moderate contact with another car, and it is moved off the racing line, but stays on the track, you'll still get an SR deduction if you pass that other car. Or something like that. @Sven Jurgens might know if that is true.

We would all know for sure if they would bring back the instant on-screen notification when they penalize us. The racing would definitely be cleaner if people were informed when things are costing them points. Another blunder by developers.

Any contact seems to cost SR. It was hard to get from SR E to SR S on race C last week. In 25 races I only once got into SR A on ps5 then send straight back to SR B for people turning in on me a couple times during the race.

On PS4 it took 21 races where it only took 4 in GT Sport. The scale might be different as well nowadays (maybe PD scaled it up to 1-199 multiplying the ranges etc since it takes twice as long now to get from S to E with the back and forth driving trick, and 'only' jump to SR C in a clean race in SR E instead of straigth to SR B) but contact certainly slows progression down regardless of who is initiating the contact or gets an advantage.

It used to be that when a car gets a penalty, that car is the only one that gets SR deducted. When there was no penalty time issued, both cars would get an SR deduction. So perhaps now penalty times are rarely dished out, most contacts result in SR loss for both parties. Race A and B have always been hard to maintain SR, and the bigger scale only slows down your descent (no more S to B drops in one race) but general movement in A/B races with contact is downwards on the SR ladder.

And yes, bring the SR Down notification back. That's also feedback where you lost the CRB as only contact free races or where I got punted off were giving me CRB last week. So definitely some door rubbing mid race where both stay on means SR Down since no CRB at the end of the race.

 

[Zero2Oblivion]

We would all know for sure if they would bring back the instant on-screen notification when they penalize us.

I can kind of see the logic in not including the SR down/up arrows, although I do agree that we need them back.

If you consider that almost every race has at least 1 hot-head racer that, when slapped with a penalty, switches to the old "if I'm going down I'm taking you with me!" mentality before slamming into someone and rage quitting, if that person sees a SR down arrow, that can be a trigger. Removing the SR down/up arrows and the post-race red/blue letters, draws focus away from SR gains/loses. That unfortunately also means people are less aware of how close they are to slipping from SR S to A to B and so on.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I can kind of see the logic in not including the SR down/up arrows, although I do agree that we need them back.

If you consider that almost every race has at least 1 hot-head racer that, when slapped with a penalty, switches to the old "if I'm going down I'm taking you with me!" mentality before slamming into someone and rage quitting, if that person sees a SR down arrow, that can be a trigger. Removing the SR down/up arrows and the post-race red/blue letters, draws focus away from SR gains/loses. That unfortunately also means people are less aware of how close they are to slipping from SR S to A to B and so on.

And it's also provides the excuse "I did nothing wrong since I did not get a penalty". You can't learn without feedback. Try training an AI algorithm without telling it what it does right or wrong... Of course the feedback PD does give couldn't me more inconsistent

 

[TechnoIsLove]

I get rammed, swiped and pushed into walls, they get nothing. A ghosted car reappears in a fast corner (I can't go left as there's a car next to me) so I brake hard and gently tap his bumper, not even a dent. 2 second penalty for me 🎉

 

[jrbabbitt]

I have been thinking about this problem of penalties and came up with a solution...
Penalties will be assessed BLINDLY and totalled up at the end of the race. You will NOT know you got a penalty until the end of the race, if you cut a corner here and a lap later you do it again, at the end of the race you will be dropped in position by the total of two .5 second penalties, if in race you also violate pit road line or Yellow flag then at the end of race you will see 4 seconds of penalty total, the two .5 and the 3 second penalties.
In the race you will never know you violated the rules until the tally at the end. You just need to drive clean or you may think you won the race but to find out you dropped to second or third because you got a penalty.
I think this is fair...opinions?

 

[Doncarlone]

I find it rather hilarious that the biggest offenses in the game are currently:

1. Touch the pit entry/exit line
2. Gain a position under yellow flag
3. Go an inch wide in/before certain corners

The least punished offenses

1. Side swiping, pushing/ramming people off
2. Brake checking
3. Corner cutting

Thats a reason why the only trophy i'm missing is the "50 online races completed".

 

[sturk0167]

I have been thinking about this problem of penalties and came up with a solution...
Penalties will be assessed BLINDLY and totalled up at the end of the race. You will NOT know you got a penalty until the end of the race, if you cut a corner here and a lap later you do it again, at the end of the race you will be dropped in position by the total of two .5 second penalties, if in race you also violate pit road line or Yellow flag then at the end of race you will see 4 seconds of penalty total, the two .5 and the 3 second penalties.
In the race you will never know you violated the rules until the tally at the end. You just need to drive clean or you may think you won the race but to find out you dropped to second or third because you got a penalty.
I think this is fair...opinions?

I could imagine a lot of post-race anger..... "Oh, what the 🤬?!

 

[JDM_GT7]

Thats a reason why the only trophy i'm missing is the "50 online races completed".

you can avoid other people if you are better than them 99 percent of the time. r just qualify first and run away with it.

I find it rather hilarious that the biggest offenses in the game are currently:

1. Touch the pit entry/exit line
2. Gain a position under yellow flag
3. Go an inch wide in/before certain corners

The least punished offenses

1. Side swiping, pushing/ramming people off
2. Brake checking
3. Corner cutting

where can you cut corners with no penalty? Do you have a video example?

 

[Doncarlone]

you can avoid other people if you are better than them 99 percent of the time. r just qualify first and run away with it.

Being better than the others makes you avoid the shaite penalty system but does not make the penalty system any less shaite.

 

[JDM_GT7]

Being better than the others makes you avoid the shaite penalty system but does not make the penalty system any less shaite.

My approach with non penantly is that purposely punters get every raced ruined for the rest of their racing life, I keep a list.
I am not talking about people who missed braking points or contacted slightly in a corner. I am talking about people who purposely punt or sideswipe. With that said get to A/S and most people are pretty good. It would take like 20 races if you have any sort of race craft at all.

 

[benjoi84]

I have been thinking about this problem of penalties and came up with a solution...
Penalties will be assessed BLINDLY and totalled up at the end of the race. You will NOT know you got a penalty until the end of the race, if you cut a corner here and a lap later you do it again, at the end of the race you will be dropped in position by the total of two .5 second penalties, if in race you also violate pit road line or Yellow flag then at the end of race you will see 4 seconds of penalty total, the two .5 and the 3 second penalties.
In the race you will never know you violated the rules until the tally at the end. You just need to drive clean or you may think you won the race but to find out you dropped to second or third because you got a penalty.
I think this is fair...opinions?

Once you get to peak SR, and/or high DR.... Definitely.

For lower rated players this would probably just turn them off the game because they wouldn't have a frame of reference by which to learn to improve.

 

[JDM_GT7]

Once you get to peak SR, and/or high DR.... Definitely.

For lower rated players this would probably just turn them off the game because they wouldn't have a frame of reference by which to learn to improve.

I think blind penalty for contact are a good thing.

I think course/pit/caution should just be dealt out as they happen. How else are you suppose to know if you are with in track limits.

 

[jrbabbitt]

I think blind penalty for contact are a good thing.

I think course/pit/caution should just be dealt out as they happen. How else are you suppose to know if you are with in track limits.

Very good modification to the idea, l like that idea for contact only blind penalty...

 

[Sven Jurgens]

you can avoid other people if you are better than them 99 percent of the time. r just qualify first and run away with it.


where can you cut corners with no penalty? Do you have a video example?

Just watch Sophy drive in the October showcase. Sometimes it gets a penalty, most of the times all wheels over the line is fine. Also you can cut chicanes, even completely gun it over the gravel at Ascari on Monza without a penalty, as long as you touch another car first. (At least the car you touch doesn't get a 'forced another car off road' penalty anymore, improvement )

 

[JDM_GT7]

Just watch Sophy drive in the October showcase. Sometimes it gets a penalty, most of the times all wheels over the line is fine. Also you can cut chicanes, even completely gun it over the gravel at Ascari on Monza without a penalty, as long as you touch another car first. (At least the car you touch doesn't get a 'forced another car off road' penalty anymore, improvement )

not sure the point you are trying to make.

Sophy keeps 2 wheels touching even if just barely inside track limits at all time.

Why is it bad to cut a corner after contact?

 

[Sven Jurgens]

not sure the point you are trying to make.

Sophy keeps 2 wheels touching even if just barely inside track limits at all time.

Why is it bad to cut a corner after contact?

Err, no

And the AI picked up plenty track limit penalties as well, just not in these (and other) cases.

Don't drive off the track​

When racing, you can only drive on the approved track surface. With the exception of certain tracks, such as urban circuits, white lines are painted on both sides of the track, and you should try to drive within these lines at all times. In most races you will incur a penalty if all four of your tyres leave the track.

It's an exploit to touch another car first, then use the 3 seconds of track limit immunity to cut chicanes. It happens a lot at Monza. The idea is that you don't get a penalty when bumped off track, but the system is too stupid to see the difference with people dive bombing and cutting the chicanes on purpose. And in GT Sport, the victim of the dive bomb used to get the penalty for 'forcing' the other car off track...

 

[JDM_GT7]

the curbs even extended are inbounds defined by the game most of the time. Only place this is nt true is the chicane exit at Daytona. Track limits are defined by the game NOT YOU. You can and should drive there as well. if you watch Gt3 or Gt4 racing they drive way past the white line all the time.

The one at lago is for sure inbounds and is the fastest line though lago. Same with the death chicane at Dragons Tailyou basically have to cross white line to get a reasonable TT or be fast in race.
Do you actually follow your own rules instead of the rules that game as made? do you just get mad at everyone following the rules in the game? I got news for you curbs are in, even extended curbs like the ones at Lago.

 

[Doncarlone]

My approach with non penantly is that purposely punters get every raced ruined for the rest of their racing life, I keep a list.
I am not talking about people who missed braking points or contacted slightly in a corner. I am talking about people who purposely punt or sideswipe. With that said get to A/S and most people are pretty good. It would take like 20 races if you have any sort of race craft at all.

I'm not going against what you are saying. I simply think it would be beneficial for gt7 online races to have some changes.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

the curbs even extended are inbounds defined by the game most of the time. Only place this is nt true is the chicane exit at Daytona. Track limits are defined by the game NOT YOU. You can and should drive there as well. if you watch Gt3 or Gt4 racing they drive way past the white line all the time.

The one at lago is for sure inbounds and is the fastest line though lago. Same with the death chicane at Dragons Tailyou basically have to cross white line to get a reasonable TT or be fast in race.
Do you actually follow your own rules instead of the rules that game as made? do you just get mad at everyone following the rules in the game? I got news for you curbs are in, even extended curbs like the ones at Lago.

Well you asked about

The least punished offenses
3. Corner cutting

And those examples are all cutting corners according to the rules PD laid out in Beyond the Apex. I didn't write them...

Indeed to be fast you have to figure out by trial and error what the game lets you get away with. I avoid Lago Maggiorre because of the nonsense track limits and do try to keep 2 wheels inside the white lines at all times. But I'm not A+, and the Nordschleife is also my best track since it has the least allowed/possible/profitable corner cutting.

I don't get mad at everyone, just at PD for not laying out clear rules like any other sport. And motorsport is a joke imo as long as track limits stay 'fluid'. Imagine any other sport where the lines on the field are flexible...

Plus the game dishes out random penalties for these 'corner' cuts. Sometimes while exactly following the car in front of you, only one of you gets the 0.5 sec penalty... Daytona was really bad for that at the chicane in the GR.1 race. One guy kept cutting both parts since he had a 50% chance or higher not to get a penalty and gain 2 seconds.

 

[JDM_GT7]

yeah again what ever they say, in practice the curbs and extended curbs are almost always inbounds. You can cut so much on nurburgring. That is how I can do sub 7:10 in GR4 cars.

I wouldnt say that limits are fluid, I would say they are track and or curb with two tires on . It kind of pointless to live by some weird moral code when the game and even real life disagree with you.



watch how far over the white line these GT4 go at redbull ring.

 

[benjoi84]

I think the thing that gives the impression that the track limits are fluid (and now I'm reaching here, but this is based on experience) is sometimes you can get a lucky jump so that even though your car physically passes through a prohibited part of the track, the fact your tyres didn't ACTUALLY TOUCH the ground means you got away with it

 

[JDM_GT7]

I think the thing that gives the impression that the track limits are fluid (and now I'm reaching here, but this is based on experience) is sometimes you can get a lucky jump so that even though your car physically passes through a prohibited part of the track, the fact your tyres didn't ACTUALLY TOUCH the ground means you got away with it

track limits go vertical.
the reality is that if you watch replay you do not have 2 tire on what the game considers inbounds. Typically its because you were more understeering or oversteering and only one was touching.

 

[wfooshee]

Yellow flag, actually the first time it hit me stupidly. Spa 60-minute. First car in the clip is slow, hasn't pitted for wets, no yellow yet. Second car is stopped on track, facing the wrong way. Third car is way off the track. What was I supposed to do, stop by the second car?!? Not that big a deal, really, except it cost me 500,000 prize credits losing the CRB for doing nothing wrong that I can see.

 

[sturk0167]

One of the worst penalties I've had in GT7, so far.

I've been starting at the back, and going slow at the first couple of turns to let the riff raff sort themselves out.
As usual, everyone in front of me crashed. Some were ghosted, and some were not. I get blasted off the track by one of them, and then get penalized for it.
I don't know what's worse. The person that I collided with getting no penalty, or the programmers not siding with the person who got knocked into the wall.

 

[Redneckchef]

One of the worst penalties I've had in GT7, so far.

I've been starting at the back, and going slow at the first couple of turns to let the riff raff sort themselves out.
As usual, everyone in front of me crashed. Some were ghosted, and some were not. I get blasted off the track by one of them, and then get penalized for it.
I don't know what's worse. The person that I collided with getting no penalty, or the programmers not siding with the person who got knocked into the wall.

Looks so much like the old low DR armor rearing it's ugly head.

 

[CnPx]

One of the worst penalties I've had in GT7, so far.

I've been starting at the back, and going slow at the first couple of turns to let the riff raff sort themselves out.
As usual, everyone in front of me crashed. Some were ghosted, and some were not. I get blasted off the track by one of them, and then get penalized for it.
I don't know what's worse. The person that I collided with getting no penalty, or the programmers not siding with the person who got knocked into the wall.

The game is honestly broken. The devs clearly don't care and have given up because they even couldn't be bothered to fix the PP system and just decided to completely remove it from more or less all the tuning options other then power 😂

 

[sturk0167]

Yeah, that makes sense.