- 828
- United Kingdom
Could well be stuff to go live. DR cap is changing as of Saturday
PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!
- Thread starter Gareth davies
- 6,543 comments
- 448,783 views
- 92
- Bedfordshire
I've been absent for a few days and have been catching up with all the reading on here.
Your final line is exactly what I was asking the other day and it still angers me that you can be shot down the DR ladder (DR Reset) because others are hitting you, deliberately in many cases. Yes, you must have 'race awareness', but you just cannot cater for the idiot who's sole mission is to take you out, when you're concentrating on the track ahead and driving cleanly to avoid others. Accidents will happen, that's inevitable, but no driver in the real world will expect another to divebomb them, as cars are just too expensive and lives are at risk.
So, my simple view is that SR is totally meaningless because the 'sportsmen' are being penalised unfairly and DR is even more meaningless because loss of SR is resulting in Loss of DR, leaving the bad drivers is a higher ranked position than the good drivers.
I would not have an issue with the SR Down / DR Reset if loss of SR was given to:
- hitting another car
- Infringing track limits
- hitting walls or barriers.
At the moment the whole system is an absolute farce because you have no clue about the true level of driver you are competing with. The only guide is your position on the grid, which is determined by your qualifying time.
- 231
- United Kingdom
How on earth can this result in me getting a 1 second penalty, when the 2 cars who collided got nothing? A car coming back on track at anything other than a few degrees off the racing line should be ghosted, end of. Nothing else is fair on an innocent driver caught up in it, and a penalty for the victim is inexcusable. This sent me down to SR A after I'd been trying so hard to keep at 99 SR and B/S.
Groundfish
(Banned)
- 4,363
- United States
That stinks however there were 2 cars in a collision right in front of you sliding off track yet you didn’t lift at all. I always wonder on these since they seem like such bs if you lift or try to avoid would it still give a pen? I think so but it’s tough to test. That’s one of the worst ones the car in front of you slides outta control snaps across track right at you or tight in front of you and BAM pen. I can only assume the game expects you to do something there but no idea what...
Anymore regarding diving...I said it before but it has been 2 years now of various iterations of this system in game.
I think the logical thing for all drivers is to consider it FairPlay if the game doesn’t penalize the maneuver.
For example diving in and barging.
I know I know, but after two years of trying to defend their intent, I now have to believe that for some reason they want things this way...
People who code these games have an intent in mind, they are not incompetent nincompoops doing things without rhyme or reason.
I hold that players should play accordingly, not impose their own personal ideas of pens (how things should be) onto the game.
Imo this should be all players.
I drive hairpins tight inside in this game, always have, now is a great time to be inside because there’s no pens.
Imo players should recognize what’s happening and adjust tactics according to what’s legal in game.
That’s the way it works in every sport I’ve ever played.
Until it’s a penalty it’s standard play...
I sort of think they are doing this inside is META bit because they want the player base to learn to race better...
In a race you race, in a time trial you hotlap and use every inch from out to in if it gives the lowest time.
I believe PD wants us racing hard and they adjust the system to benefit players who do.
It could be worse, you could be I racing on oval...2 laps caution 4 minutes...start...crash...caution 3 minutes...start...half lap...crash caution...
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- 665
- Edmonton, AB
- GTP_Torontoblue
Not really true though. Race C this week, I have been taking the inside on majority of corners when others are close by/behind, yet I get rammed out of the corner or tagged from behind, SR down for me. That's a penalty, IMO.
The current penalty system encourages bad behaviour, and rewards it.
Groundfish
(Banned)
- 4,363
- United States
How are they ramming if you are inside them?
- 5,670
- Ulricehamn
You and I was in a rather passionate, but still polite discussion on this just a few days ago.
And I feel I must update. After we had discussed this for a long period I went back racing and took a page from your book.
I stopped driving the qualifying line in race,I protected the inside at the cost of speed, I drove defensive when ever some one was behind me, I kept scrolling the situation ahead, lifted or braked to avoid situations, made it my number one priority to finish instead of trying to advance all the time.
And guess what? Instead of a ratio of 5 bad, 1 good race I was having 5 good, 1 bad. And I definitely did not do worse.
There still is no way to avoid the freak accidents from cars flying into you, but they are very much further between.
And I am starting to believe that I might where having tunnel vision and was a worse driver than I thought.
- 231
- United Kingdom
True, I didn't lift. I had 1 single second from the moment the car started turning in on me to when it hit me. I'd already decided to power through the huge space I had in front of me (with no time to check how close behing the next car was). Cockpit view makes it clear that I did try to turn away before the hit so as to be as far away from the car while it recovered, not expecting it to spear into me of course.
As you say, anyone's guess what the game expected me to do.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
Lifting doesn't matter, slamming on the brakes doesn't make a difference either, I've tried, many times. Slamming on the brakes for an accident usually has worse outcomes in traffic. Lifting doesn't do much, just makes your car easier to spin out. So now I rather brace for impact while trying to avoid at the same time. Keep some throttle going to stay in full control of the car, steer into the collision at the last moment, absorb and continue. The penalty will happen anyway but at least you don't get punted off by cars behind you.
It's actually quite funny how instinctive that has gotten. When the game ghosts the out of control re-entry at the last second I find myself swerving into his path to absorb the collision, sometimes nearly driving myself off the other side of the road. It's muscle memory by now, just like catching a ball
- 231
- United Kingdom
Meant to add that as part of why I powered through. Although I wasn't expecting contact, I always try to be prepared for it and power will usually outperform lifting in an situation like that.
- 309
- Galway
- Artful_Alonso14
I wonder did they try to fix the penalty system by reversing the penalty award to the victim of the collision. Just had a race where I was side by side by a driver, me on the edge of the track, as he continues to barge me off the road. I received the award of two seconds for forcing another driver off the track. Amazing stuff!
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
Are you still racing though? I know the difference between survival driving and racing. I prefer the latter and last week I stuck to racing (clean and fair) hence 5 DR resets. Sure I could jump out of the way for cars behind me and follow at 0.5 sec distance to brake for cars colliding further in front and only pass wrecks or cars going wide, that got me to 97 clean streak on Catalunya, I wasn't racing though. At most it's a parade sticking to your starting position.
But it's always in your best interest to avoid dive bombs, penalty or not, you're better off when not hit. It's not always simple though with more cars behind you and one further back decides to dive in. And when you're already making the turn, suddenly turning the opposite way to avoid is either too late or driving yourself into a wall / upsetting your car so much you end up in the grass.
My solution is to not pay attention to SR any longer. The penalty system is broken, useless beyond any doubt, and SR.S isn't much better nowadays. I found better drivers in SR.C than in SR.S.
You can do well by dive bombing and forcing people off the track, ergo DR/SR are meaningless.
Yep, it won't save you from a penalty. Steering inputs have no impact. All the server sees is, there was a collision, you gained speed, the other car lost speed, therefore you had an advantage and deserve a penalty. It's the same reason for dive bombs. The dive bomber transfers his momentum to your car to make the turn. You gain a speed advantage, you deserve a penalty.
What's puzzling is this new push a car off the road and the car getting pushed off gets a penalty. That indeed sounds like they simply swapped the penalty around there. Perhaps that swap was intended to fix dive bombs, but instead they swapped it for forcing a car off the road. Sadly, it would not surprise me if that was the case.
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- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
Double post sorry.
- 665
- Edmonton, AB
- GTP_Torontoblue
Ramming isn't just related to being hit on one side.
Read my post, I am getting rammed out of the corner; therefore the car behind is ramming the rear, pushing me out of the corner and usually into another car or the opposite wall.
- 5,670
- Ulricehamn
No. I am not racing anything close to my limit. But doing that made me so frustrated so now I try this. Once this is second nature I can start pressing again.
- 882
- United Kingdom
Yep, this has been a problem with the system for a long time and these are the type of situations where ghosting could be beneficial irregardless of the driver's DR level.
The system has never issued blame correctly for an out of control car tapping another on their way off track. The car is perpendicular to the driving line and knowledge of this already exists in the game since SR E/DR D drivers are ghosted the moment it happens.
killerjimbag
(Banned)
- 4,018
- The Great White North
- abetterplaya
Yep buy the Real Driving Simulator so you can drive not to your limit and get smashed by every clown in the game. Sounds like fun.
- 5,670
- Ulricehamn
I am enjoying it too even if it sounds tedious. It's a bit like the Swedish national car racing sport.
Groundfish
(Banned)
- 4,363
- United States
- 2,219
- Tennessee
- NoStopN
Seen those words before. Experienced the irritation before. Not falling for it this time.
- 92
- Bedfordshire
Yes, that's the game we're all playing now. How on earth did you manage to obtain footage of my last race??
- 3,557
- Theresa, Wisconsin
That's some funny 🤬!!! That is GTS Sport Mode in real life, "if you dare to pass me I will spin you out". The name Sport Mode is also ironic, when is the sport going to begin in Sport Mode?
Someone needs to make some GTS gifs out of that video, I saw many possibilities.
- 5,670
- Ulricehamn
Just search YouTube for Folkrace crash. There are countless of them. To be licensed you have to be 12 or more, and take a class.
The winning car is up for sale after each race for a fixed price, the owner can't refuse but are allowed to keep chair,belt and steering wheel. This keeps the racing affordable. It's a real folk sport here.
- 2,216
- Isle of Wight, UK
Ahhh folk racing, that's it, I'm booting up Wreckfest!
- 661
- Melbourne
- LotusEvoraGTE
- DJ Yuyuko
Two seconds for a light, inconsequential tap between myself and someone else and an additional three for getting shoved out of the way.
From B/S to C/B because of the abhorrent state of the penalty system for the last four months and because the wider playerbase has taken advantage of this and play the game like it's Forza/Wreckfest instead.
I'm appalled that PD never even attempted to try to fix this like they promised in that one update preview article they put up (they nerfed slipstream, adjusted race car handling/fuel consumption/tire wear, why not this?!) a month prior. Is a somewhat playable Sport Mode just too much to ask for?
killerjimbag
(Banned)
- 4,018
- The Great White North
- abetterplaya
Yes we are allergic to 4256 posts about how bad a game is. But hey continue to play and post away. There are other "Driving Simulators" that actually work.
Perhaps trying them will make you forget about how bad this game truly is. I have played every GT game and supported PD. After this debacle,I moved on. Not worth the frustration.
Groundfish
(Banned)
- 4,363
- United States
Is it ‘taking advantage’ or playing by the rules?
Like I said, in any real sport if no fouls are called you do what you can. If they can dive so can you.
If you are closest to apex in a turn you pretty much wont be penalized under the current system.
If a car dives in late but is closer to apex at point of contact and hits you wide you will get a time penalty right now.
Really this is what defensive driving in racing is all about in gts.
It doesn’t matter what’s polite or kind.
It simply matters who is in control of the space.
From inside you control the space, you can put the outside car off at will.
It’s your decision at any corner entry do you trust the guy behind or not?
If you do then all is well, if you don’t you’d better take a position where he CANT barge or give you a pen.
Might have to brake early and hug apex so even if he does hit you you will hold position or something like that.
I believe the state of the system is by design. PD/FIA want us to race hard, and fight in these daily races.
On the GTS site they mention the advanced matchmaking will provide FAIR for all. Technically this is true in the sense that the system is the same for all participants.
We all have the same right to dive inside and give drivers who don’t defend a penalty by hitting them wide and passing.
The matchmaking system does not guarantee clean racing, it matches you up with others at your skill level by dr sr rank.
What’s failed totally is that 99sr doesn’t mean you can go in and play and expect others to follow common racing etiquette.
99sr means you play against other 99 in a system that rewards divebombs, so people should know that before entering.
At higher levels players have more skill so it’s not really a problem so much, people have the ability to exact justice almost instantly if wronged, everyone knows it, everyone does it.
Standards are upheld by culture.
At lower levels though the game is chaos as far as racing according to Motorsport etiquette, at lower levels people are still learning to have racecraft.
They need to raise the sr cap just like they are doing on dr.
The rules dictate the play. People need to accept that.
Right now the inside is everything and contact is tolerated if you are inside you win.
Therefore play accordingly. I think it makes it fun.
I think that FIA/PD is showing us what they want sport mode be by adjusting the system this way.
It is what it is. A sport mode. If divebombs are allowed...
Edit it’s like playing the original street fighter...
If my buddy can’t block a low jab he’s gonna get low jabbed ALL DAY until he learns to counter that attack.
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This game is just a mess. Part of my post in the FIA thread:
“Started gaining positions quickly until I was brake checked (on a straight) and got a 4 second penalty. The other guy wasn’t affected in the least.
Caught up only to get aggressively pushed off track. 2 second penalty for pushing a car off track when I was the only one going off!”
So that’s it. Done with GTS and PD as a company. Never again will I support Kaz and his misguided efforts.
“Started gaining positions quickly until I was brake checked (on a straight) and got a 4 second penalty. The other guy wasn’t affected in the least.
Caught up only to get aggressively pushed off track. 2 second penalty for pushing a car off track when I was the only one going off!”
So that’s it. Done with GTS and PD as a company. Never again will I support Kaz and his misguided efforts.
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- 294
My friend, is it sarcastic? Cause this is complete gibberish to me. People complain that a -supposedly- racing game favors cheatersa and sanctions those who try to play clean (well..to "race" actually), and your answer is that :
1- the game is not broken. It s a game design decision to favorise dirty and cheap tricks.
2- as a consequence: dirty drivers are not dirty, they just play like PD/FIA expect them to play. Complainers are the ones who don't get it.
Seriously mate... I mean... So much "elite gamer" non sense in your post. It's painful.
Game is not wreckfest or destruction derby. It is a "realistic" driving game that was supposed to revolutionize racing esport.
There's even a mandatory video showing you how to play fair and clean! What s wrong with you?
It is broken. Period.
(and the fact that it is broken for everyone in the same way does not make it "fair"... just makes it totally broken)
