PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[O604]

The title of this thread pretty much says it all. Nobody is claiming it's perfect.

If someone says they are playing regardless of the penalty system. Maybe there's something to learn there?

Anyone who says that the penalty system is fine in GTS is a fraud. Won't even bother speaking with them. Just like I would ignore people who say that the Earth is flat,...

Deniers are the problem as much as Kaz.

If you enjoy the game, fine. Does not mean it's not broken.

Who has ever said the penalty system was fine and didn't need improving?
I think it's tolerable, am I a fraud?
Who are you angry at?
Why the Flat Earth straw man?
Why is Kaz as much as a problem as deniers?
Do you not think we are enjoying the "broken" game already?

 

[barak181]

What I don't understand is that if people hate this game so much that they uninstall it and swear to never play it again, why do they need to hang out in a forum dedicated to it and tell everybody about how much they hate the game and that they're never going to play it again?

 

[cassiusclay99]

What I don't understand is that if people hate this game so much that they uninstall it and swear to never play it again, why do they need to hang out in a forum dedicated to it and tell everybody about how much they hate the game and that they're never going to play it again?

I might anwser:
1- because we car about our favourite franchise
2- why do people who love the game complain that people complain on a thread called "PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!"?

 

[barak181]

I might anwser:
1- because we car about our favourite franchise
2- why do people who love the game complain that people complain on a thread called "PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!"?

Most of the people posting in this thread continue to play the game on a regular basis despite wanting to see some improvements made - especially in the penalty system. Some have temporarily quit with the intention of coming back when the penalty system is improved. Those are both completely different situations than "I hate this game. I hate Kaz. I have uninstalled this game. I'm never going to give another cent to PD for the rest of my life. I'm going to hang around for days repeating these things to people who continue to play this game."

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I will say also, yesterday I ran in a 2 hour race that the host used custom settings for the car on, it was like a real race, very cool. That’s definitely an option also.
There looks to be LOADS of great leagues and good people who run lobbies right here on this site.
The participants all have the similar interest in proper racing.
So if you love this game, like me, and can keep your car on track and not hit others I’m sure there’s a group here that you can join if that’s the experience you’re after.

For me there’s just something about sport mode.
It has the possibility of inducing rage, but let’s be honest the MAJORITY of races rate from decent to good to absolutely incredible.
I like sprints, and when the dailies have a c race that’s easy to gain sr in then the a or b will be very cutthroat at times...
I like that, I like that the players are not guaranteed not to touch you.
In a way I think all the aspects we whine about in this thread combined with putting your rating on the line with each entry make sport mode special.
Tbh as far as bs penalties go, I think in recent memory I did take a one second one early this week, but nothing was lost that can’t be regained.
If you are sensitive enough that one incident or bad race will cause you to come unglued then that’s your own issue.
I know I’ve had a few times I was out to wreck everyone and took multiple pens and sr downs, but you know you just work on it and put perspective on things.
Over time you will prevail if you work on racecraft a bit.
Seems like some are just very sensitive flowers and mentally are unable to handle competitive online environments.
I respect that, but that ain’t me babe.

Sure, over time you will prevail and/or find other ways to enjoy the game.

It's a shame it has only been getting worse since 1.53. Last year the ratio of good to bad races was much higher. And while I raced the crap out of the Nordschleife last week, driving standards were worse than the last time it was on. Plus since it was a week with harsh SR deductions, I rarely got to race the fast guys. The week on the Nord without penalties had much better racing!

I understand people get fed up with it when it keeps moving in the wrong direction with one knee jerk reaction after the other. One week one SR Down is SR lost for a race C, next week 3 SR Downs still give you SR in race A. Then since the last update the penalty decisions have gotten even worse which shouldn't have been possible!

I did one race A today, perfectly clean battle with another car for 4 laps swapping position. 10 AM Sunday, still clean. But do I feel like pushing my luck and racing in the afternoon on a track / car combo I'm not that passionate about, nope. I'm playing ARK today with my kids. Less frustrating.

 

[O604]

Sure, over time you will prevail and/or find other ways to enjoy the game.

It's a shame it has only been getting worse since 1.53. Last year the ratio of good to bad races was much higher. And while I raced the crap out of the Nordschleife last week, driving standards were worse than the last time it was on. Plus since it was a week with harsh SR deductions, I rarely got to race the fast guys. The week on the Nord without penalties had much better racing!

I understand people get fed up with it when it keeps moving in the wrong direction with one knee jerk reaction after the other. One week one SR Down is SR lost for a race C, next week 3 SR Downs still give you SR in race A. Then since the last update the penalty decisions have gotten even worse which shouldn't have been possible!

I did one race A today, perfectly clean battle with another car for 4 laps swapping position. 10 AM Sunday, still clean. But do I feel like pushing my luck and racing in the afternoon on a track / car combo I'm not that passionate about, nope. I'm playing ARK today with my kids. Less frustrating.

Counterpoint: You did 200+ races last week, right? I find it amazing the game finds that many people to race against you on Nord. Could be worse, you could have a grid of me who wouldn't challenge you at all.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Yep,go jump in your car. It's a 5 speed,but when you go to hit 4th gear,it drops back to first. No problem,deal with it and adapt. As you pick up parts of your tranny off the road.

This anology makes no sense. And by the way, if you never intend to return to GTS then don't. I promise I won't keep sending messages about how much I like it

 

[cassiusclay99]

Most of the people posting in this thread continue to play the game on a regular basis despite wanting to see some improvements made - especially in the penalty system. Some have temporarily quit with the intention of coming back when the penalty system is improved. Those are both completely different situations than "I hate this game. I hate Kaz. I have uninstalled this game. I'm never going to give another cent to PD for the rest of my life. I'm going to hang around for days repeating these things to people who continue to play this game."

This forum being basically the only "desperate" channel to be red by PD (because PD wouldn't open a proper channel), I think it makes sense to express anger if you are angry. Happyness if you are happy.

I think sending the message to the dev that they won't get your money anymore is pretty efficient if you try to see some changes...

The title of the thread really leaves room to anger...and even rage.

It s a videogame forum : people express themselves as they see fit.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

This forum being basically the only "desperate" channel to be red by PD (because PD wouldn't open a proper channel), I think it makes sense to express anger if you are angry. Happyness if you are happy.

I think sending the message to the dev that they won't get your money anymore is pretty efficient if you try to see some changes...

The title of the thread really leaves room to anger...and even rage.

It s a videogame forum : people express themselves as they see fit.

That's ok in my book. But the anger should be directed towards the developers, not the other forum members.

 

[Tea_Leaves]

I think the harsh reality is that unless their top split of players are unhappy, Polyphony are unlikely to make immediate changes to the system. That was proved to me back on March 20th with the adjustment of side contact penalties.

The key differences are that top split players have raced together offline or are often matched with one another and naturally race by proper rules with the system there as an afterthought unless it's directly interfering (March 20th change). You're unlikely to pull off a dirty move against someone you know.

While at levels below where the large percentage of players reside, the system is teaching them the wrong way to race. Players are also not likely to care as much about driving dirty because they don't know the other drivers and the system rewards them by doing so.

 

[mattikake]

Well that's me fuming. Just tried the supra cup and because of the useless penalty system and the lack of damage people just either squeeze you off track to get you a penalty or simply don't brake for corners and push you straight on.

The "sport" mode racing is the worse online racing experience ever. The total fail is people know how to use the pathetic penalty system to their own advantage. I see it no other way than Polyphony are wholly responsible for the way people "drive" when the system is easy to cheat. They should also be held accountable.

Arcade mode has lost another player. I'm never going back to it when it's in this sorry state. I'm sticking to private lobby league racing. Screw getting my DR up. Having a 99 SR is worthless because rather than meeting idiots who can't drive, instead you meet people who know how to cheat.

I suggest everyone posts realistic comments on the gts official yt videos and down rates them. Like I did on their last upload and a comical penalty to a driver on the first lap, ruining his race. The commentators didn't bat an eyelid over it either.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Counterpoint: You did 200+ races last week, right? I find it amazing the game finds that many people to race against you on Nord. Could be worse, you could have a grid of me who wouldn't challenge you at all.

That's the appeal of GT Sport, always a full room, 5 times per hour. It wasn't only finding people to race, when going below SR.S it was even finding lots of different players to race. At max SR.S I often recognize half the names in the room, lower SR, all different people. Which like @Tea_Leaves said leads to worse behavior. If you all know each other and have to race each other over and over, you take more care to 'live' together. The more random the rooms are, the less people care.

If DR worked better at lower SR ranges, you would be placed with the same people more often. SR has too big of an influence on match making while DR gets scrambled too often by alt accounts and DR resets coming through sucking up points. Match making only really works for those above 25K DR and above 90 SR.

Instead of matching in 10 point SR increments, improve matchmaking by changing it to:

- Start collecting entries from 80 to 99 SR, sort on DR, fill rooms.
- Collect entries from 60 to 79 SR, sort on DR, add lowest DR (instead of highest) to the open spots in the last (lowest DR) room of 80 to 89 SR range.
- Collect entries from 30 to 59 SR, same thing as above
- Rest entries from 1 to 29 SR.

SR.S 80+ SR
SR.A 60 to 79 SR (instead of 65 to 79)
SR.B 30 to 59 SR (instead of 40 to 65)
SR.C 1 to 29 SR, no need for E and D.

no more DR resets, let there be DR.A SR.C drivers instead of mixing them into DR.C SR.C.
no more +1500 -1500 for going up/down a rank, no need, it only imbalances DR and serves no purpose in matchmaking.

4 segments should be plenty to separate different driving 'styles', no need for 10 steps undermining the purpose of DR. This way people with similar abilities will be placed together more often, more familiarity, less incidents.

 

[esvau]

The headline of this thread is a bit too harsh, I think. I understand it is not easy making a penalty system. That said, there are too many obvious wrongs in it. Have had a short absence because I got fed up with all drivers not getting penalties. Note that I did not say dirty drivers because we all make a mistake now and then, you just have to take the penalty if you ”do wrong”. So, what is the problem then? Well, the penalty system are having huge problems deciding who has done wrong.

So, back on track again for a test since they say there have been changes in the last update.

First thing that happens is a car exploring the grass turns out on the track hitting me mildly front left with his back right. Guess who got an orange S? He did not suffer from it, nor did I, nor did I pass him, just a mistake from him leading to slight contact. If there were to be penalty in that situation it was handed the wrong way.

There were no high speed bangers on the inside these races so I don’t know how that is handled since the update. Earlier you could leave space for an inside runner but if he decided to give you a knock out anyway the only penalty, if given, was for you.

What are your experiences since the update?

 

[O604]

That's the appeal of GT Sport, always a full room, 5 times per hour. It wasn't only finding people to race, when going below SR.S it was even finding lots of different players to race. At max SR.S I often recognize half the names in the room, lower SR, all different people. Which like @Tea_Leaves said leads to worse behavior. If you all know each other and have to race each other over and over, you take more care to 'live' together. The more random the rooms are, the less people care.

If DR worked better at lower SR ranges, you would be placed with the same people more often. SR has too big of an influence on match making while DR gets scrambled too often by alt accounts and DR resets coming through sucking up points. Match making only really works for those above 25K DR and above 90 SR.

Instead of matching in 10 point SR increments, improve matchmaking by changing it to:

- Start collecting entries from 80 to 99 SR, sort on DR, fill rooms.
- Collect entries from 60 to 79 SR, sort on DR, add lowest DR (instead of highest) to the open spots in the last (lowest DR) room of 80 to 89 SR range.
- Collect entries from 30 to 59 SR, same thing as above
- Rest entries from 1 to 29 SR.

SR.S 80+ SR
SR.A 60 to 79 SR (instead of 65 to 79)
SR.B 30 to 59 SR (instead of 40 to 65)
SR.C 1 to 29 SR, no need for E and D.

no more DR resets, let there be DR.A SR.C drivers instead of mixing them into DR.C SR.C.
no more +1500 -1500 for going up/down a rank, no need, it only imbalances DR and serves no purpose in matchmaking.

4 segments should be plenty to separate different driving 'styles', no need for 10 steps undermining the purpose of DR. This way people with similar abilities will be placed together more often, more familiarity, less incidents.

Let's see where the DR cap increase takes us. It could spread things out from the top down.

I agree with all your points, just to be clear, we've just had this conversation too long.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Let's see where the DR cap increase takes us. It could spread things out from the top down.

I agree with all your points, just to be clear, we've just had this conversation too long.

Haha I know

The DR cap won't matter for anyone below alien status. Previously those extra points 'taken' by 75K drivers simply disappeared, now they will slowly climb further out of reach. A 75K player already took at most 30 points from a DR.A player and only 1 point from those 35K and lower. The only effect will be that aliens take even less points from high DR.A players.

The reality is that I rarely see more than a few A+ drivers in the tops split daily races. During prime time, maybe 5 on occasion, a very popular race C during prime time can crank it up to 8. I doubt it will draw aliens back to sport mode, the risks only get higher. A DR reset, even back to 40K for dropping to SR.B will hurt even more. While the gains will be tiny. At 90K only other A+ drivers are worth a few DR, the rest can only cost you when things go bad or you get disconnected.

DR cap increase is for the one per mille, zero effect on the other 99.9%.

 

[Foxis]

Just wanted to pop back and report how relieved I am. Before reactivating the iRacing sub I bought Assetto Corsa Comp.

if “Sport” in GTS alludes to Kaz having an ambition for GTS as a proper esport platform he should be really worried for the future. iRacing should be a bit worried as well, at least from a GT racing perspective.

Why and how is this relevant? Because besides superior physics and feel to GTS (obviously) and even iRacing, it is perfectly clear they take the racing safety system seriously. A close to no-fault system inspired by iRacing but with added metrics such as Track Competency.

The official competition servers have a fairly high SA rating limit just to get on them.

Sure, today you need a fairly decent gaming PC, but with them aiming at cross platform with PS4 support coming in June, Kaz should be really worried if PD can’t even get a decent penalty system working.

Take a peek at the other side of the fence. The grass really is greener...

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Just wanted to pop back and report how relieved I am. Before reactivating the iRacing sub I bought Assetto Corsa Comp.

if “Sport” in GTS alludes to Kaz having an ambition for GTS as a proper esport platform he should be really worried for the future. iRacing should be a bit worried as well, at least from a GT racing perspective.

Why and how is this relevant? Because besides superior physics and feel to GTS (obviously) and even iRacing, it is perfectly clear they take the racing safety system seriously. A close to no-fault system inspired by iRacing but with added metrics such as Track Competency.

The official competition servers have a fairly high SA rating limit just to get on them.

Sure, today you need a fairly decent gaming PC, but with them aiming at cross platform with PS4 support coming in June, Kaz should be really worried if PD can’t even get a decent penalty system working.

Take a peek at the other side of the fence. The grass really is greener...

I have heard good things about ACC. But if it's anything like AC it's neigh impossible to drive proper without a wheel set-up.
I tried AC and it's no doubt a far better simulator. But it's not an easily accessible game.
That's probably good from the standpoint of clean racing as it exclude most of the possible assailants.
But it also exclude a lot of clean drivers.
PD is in IT for the numbers,I don't think they are worried.

 

[Evilsurgeon]

I give up. I just did three gr3 daily races with most people same rank but faster quals. 2/3 I was taken out but finished same as start position. 3rd I went up 5 positions and yet my DR tanked, went down each one. No change SR = S. What bs.

 

[Groundfish]

Far as I know tho ACC console won’t be cross platform with pc for online races.
Here, they won’t have many players...
I was just thinking about it...
GTS has players and races whenever. Plus there’s videos all over of cars in ACC all over flying off track crashes etc...
It might be ok for single player but I’m not into that after racing online.
I was thinking yes definite purchase, but now I’m going to wait.
Plus videos are out there same probs gts has on blame assignment as of last month go figure...

 

[Foxis]

Far as I know tho ACC console won’t be cross platform with pc for online races.
Here, they won’t have many players...
I was just thinking about it...
GTS has players and races whenever. Plus there’s videos all over of cars in ACC all over flying off track crashes etc...
It might be ok for single player but I’m not into that after racing online.
I was thinking yes definite purchase, but now I’m going to wait.
Plus videos are out there same probs gts has on blame assignment as of last month go figure...

Some quick replies to the above:

- No the PS4 version won’t have cross platform play. But the PS5 version? I bet it will.

- Crashes happen in racing. In GT racing even more so.

- The difference is how developers deal with the penalty system to punish players who repeatedly messes things up. ACC seems to be going for a more no-fault oriented approach like iRacing. Which means that yes, there will be blame discussions; “I got a penalty but it wasn’t my fault”. The big difference is that the punter is always getting a penalty as well. There are no free rammings to be had, unlike in GTS where currently you can dive bomb someone off the track without any penalty whatsoever.

I am not partial to any game really, but if I compare GTS and ACC regarding the progress made since launch it is absolutely clear which title is on the right track and which is heading to hell. (And some would argue it is already there).

But each to his own and all that. I will try to refrain from more posts as you know my stance by now, and my racing will be done elsewhere.

Good luck, regardless of where you race!

 

[GTPorsche]

Having attempted two daily races this past week for the first time in nearly a year or so, the penalty system is broken, but the bigger issue is the AWFUL driving and racecraft that still runs rampant in the sector of the online ratings where it's suppose to be the clean end of the spectrum.

 

[Deni323]

I don't get it, penalty system was never perfect but it was decent somwhere around 5-6 months after release.

How did they manage to mess it up sooooo bad, game now awards divebombing and dirty driving, teaching new players and DR: C, D, E players that you are suppose to dive bomb to the inside and push car infront of you outside of the track, not only that is okay but HE(car in front) will get penalty for not moving to your dive bomb.

WOW PD, just WOW


In daily A i have pole and in first corner i go as narrow as possible to the apex, guy behind me goes on GRASS to cut even more and pushes me out, I get SR down + 1 sec penalty, it'a joke really

Pissed of I said ok now I will be the rammer now and I pushed 3 cars with same method on different corners, never got penalty.

Game literally awards dirty driving and ignoring racing craft and punishes clean driving.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

I don't get it, penalty system was never perfect but it was decent somwhere around 5-6 months after release.

How did they manage to mess it up sooooo bad, game now awards divebombing and dirty driving, teaching new players and DR: C, D, E players that you are suppose to dive bomb to the inside and push car infront of you outside of the track, not only that is okay but HE(car in front) will get penalty for not moving to your dive bomb.

WOW PD, just WOW


In daily A i have pole and in first corner i go as narrow as possible to the apex, guy behind me goes on GRASS to cut even more and pushes me out, I get SR down + 1 sec penalty, it'a joke really

Pissed of I said ok now I will be the rammer now and I pushed 3 cars with same method on different corners, never got penalty.

Game literally awards dirty driving and ignoring racing craft and punishes clean driving.

While your points is right about the penalty problem your solution makes you part of the problem. You just taught three more guys that it's the way to race.
How do you justify that??

 

[Deni323]

Testing.

Error can happen with penalty system but now I know 100% pushing people either sideways or from back will not give you penalty even if you want to get one, if you crash someone who is doing 50km/h in tight turn you can crash them with 250km/h and you will not get penalty, but he might.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Testing.

Error can happen with penalty system but now I know 100% pushing people either sideways or from back will not give you penalty even if you want to get one, if you crash someone who is doing 50km/h in tight turn you can crash them with 250km/h and you will not get penalty, but he might.

Is this something you didn't already know? How does it feel for your victims to be guinea pigs for you? This thread could have told you this without anyone else Having their race destroyed.

 

[Deni323]

Right, I'm the problem not penalty system who promotes dirty racing.

I would be happy to get 15 sec penalty and SR down from S to B for every time you push someone in the wall

Is better to have too strict penalties than this joke that we have now

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Right, I'm the problem not penalty system who promotes dirty racing.

I would be happy to get 15 sec penalty and SR down from S to B for every time you push someone in the wall

Is better to have too strict penalties than this joke that we have now

You are not the problem, the problem is the penalty system AND the people who choose to take advantage of it.
So when you where testing did you give the position back?

 

[MaxAttack]

No one should be testing the bloody penalty system on unwitting racers. You can test this stuff in lobbies with the right settings, you know, maybe with some friends and you won't be ruining everyone's races.

Oh yeah, the penalty system is bad or whatever, debating that is a fool's errand around here, but we don't need confirmation on top of confirmation at the expense of people minding their own business. Think, people, you realise those guys you punted are now probably raging just like you at all the "dirty drivers", but I doubt you see yourselves that way.

Pretty deplorable.

 

[Deni323]

You are not the problem, the problem is the penalty system AND the people who choose to take advantage of it.
So when you where testing did you give the position back?

Did they give me mine 1st position back which? No

Did I get penalty for beeing rammed? Yes

With current penalty system this is not racing, this is wreckfest

 

[Groundfish]

I wrote these lines the other day...
I hold that players should play accordingly, not impose their own personal ideas of pens (how things should be) onto the game.
Imo this should be all players.
I drive hairpins tight inside in this game, always have, now is a great time to be inside because there’s no pens.
Imo players should recognize what’s happening and adjust tactics according to what’s legal in game.
That’s the way it works in every sport I’ve ever played.
Until it’s a penalty it’s standard play...
I sort of think they are doing this inside is META bit because they want the player base to learn to race better...

Seems there’s some players in game diving and punting...
You have to adjust your driving accordingly...
If you enterup you gotta be aware of the current rules...