PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

Did they give me mine 1st position back which? No

Did I get penalty for beeing rammed? Yes

With current penalty system this is not racing, this is wreckfest
Did you get pissed by being rammed and penalized? Do tou think your victims thought "it's ok, he is just testing"?

Face it, you are the dirty driver you complain about.
I have no sympathy for your problems with the penalty system, apparently the penalty was awarded to a dirty driver this time.
 
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Lol ok, remmember that when someone pushes you in the wall and you get a penalty, remmember to give them back the position because you are dirty not them, they are jusy using you as their brake
 
Lol ok, remmember that when someone pushes you in the wall and you get a penalty, remmember to give them back the position because you are dirty not them, they are jusy using you as their brake
That is not what I said. The three other innocent victims YOU pushed off as a "test" are the ones you should have given the position back to and an apology after the race.
I wouldn't do what you did so I don't have that to worry about.
 
Lol ok, remmember that when someone pushes you in the wall and you get a penalty, remmember to give them back the position because you are dirty not them, they are jusy using you as their brake
A few weeks back in an FIA race at Catalunya, I went a bit full send through turn four with another driver (first lap out of the pits, I'm on new mediums, didn't account for them braking where they did on old mediums). Due to them being on the outside, they got a two-second penalty for pretty much no reason. In essence, I gave them that penalty.

I allowed that driver to stay in front until the penalty zone (after turn seven), and then I slowed down along with him, so that he didn't lose position to a penalty he didn't deserve. I passed him anyway (and the car that passed both of us) on the next lap because I was on newer tyres and 2.5s a lap faster.


Did you give the position back to any of the cars you gave a penalty to while "testing"?
 
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People will start to figure out to brake very very early pretty soon, then even if you get hit from behind you don’t go off track.
Also not qualifying, also sandbag qual so you are faster than those behind.
Slowing early and controlling cars behind you is self defense.
If you brake at the latest possible second you are making things harder on yourself given the system right now...
 
I've been pissed at drivers before in iRacing, occasionally lag issues, but never the game logic.

The only way the penalty system will improve is if there was a way for PD to data log incidents where drivers felt they were unfairly penalized so they could go back and run the scenario again and fix the parameters. Maybe they are doing that on a subset of internal servers, but I doubt it. One thing is for sure, they aren't listening to the complaints on this thread, they probably aren't watching the countless YouTube videos showing how bad their system is, and they're more focused on making sure the next new car launch in the game looks good.

I jumped back into this game last month, yeah, the COVID got me housebound and looking for something to do. I quickly gained SR and DR doing the FIA races. Maybe an hour or so of practice before the first of 2 events for an evening. Enough to figure out tire strategy and what vehicle to use. Most races were clean and I could count on one hand the altercations I had with dirty drivers. However, after the FIA finished, I jumped into the daily races and found an entirely different set of opponents. If the FIA drivers I was along side were sim racers, these daily race guys were "gamers". They knew how to push through the first few turns to gain positions, and they used every advantage to make sure the opponents they were passing did not pose a threat later in the race. Maybe 1 race out of 5 you would have a lap or two where you battled someone clean, the rest was just damage control and crossing your fingers you didn't get punted, side swiped, or hit with a penalty for crashing into slow moving traffic caused by someone else getting punted or side swiped.

The penalty system doesn't promote clean racing, that is clear, it promotes gaming the system. I don't know that contact logic can be written to make it fair, as it requires rewinding the tape to figure out the reason for the contact, and it requires knowing the current fastest pace for any given section of track for the particular car, tire compound, and wear bars. My best suggestion to anyone is find a league where you can control the caliber of driver that shows up rather than blame PD for an inadequate system.
 
I am pretty sure PD test the new version of penalty system every time, but with in-house people. Because the system works provided the people racing wants to race clean. It works in the top splits where the racers know each other and where you have to be clean to be trusted.
Then it's dropped into daily racing.....
Yup. I think the problem with PD is they don't have enough a-holes testing to predict what a-holes will do. Ultimate solution would be to eliminate the a-holes. But Earth seems to have a never ending supply of them.

Testing.

Error can happen with penalty system but now I know 100% pushing people either sideways or from back will not give you penalty even if you want to get one, if you crash someone who is doing 50km/h in tight turn you can crash them with 250km/h and you will not get penalty, but he might.
Testing? :lol:

"Officer I wasn't speeding, I was testing." You can't just call something a test to justify bad behavior.
 
I think in this game you gotta lighten up and race hard.
Just did b race, the system doesn’t give pens if you cover inside off early and brake early and run tight.
People get pissy because they can’t bomb through if you defend hard but wth are you supposed to do? Pull over?
Just take a wide entry so they can dive and give you a pen?
Daily b is a fun one, IF you like to race hard. I haven’t had pen issues driving this way...yet...You CANNOT stay outside imo they will dive always, you gotta be cheeky and brake early on inside then if they hit you it’s no big deal...It’s a sprint so I will defend very hard, especially if it prevents pens which it seems to do so far...
There’s no point in caring much about points,
just have fun!
Race hard!
People seem allergic to fun...There’s no prizes or money at stake for crying out loud! You’re not going on a world tour!
Battling hard is fun!
 
I am pretty sure PD test the new version of penalty system every time, but with in-house people. Because the system works provided the people racing wants to race clean. It works in the top splits where the racers know each other and where you have to be clean to be trusted.
Then it's dropped into daily racing.....

I've worked in video game QA before, you always have people playing in non-ideal ways during testing. The QA testers put in 8 hours a day on these games, they know track exploits and tons of game issues that will never see the light of day. Between QA at Polyphony and at Sony, QA definitely knows the issues with this game. It's the developer though that is choosing how to react to that feedback, not QA.
 
It’s by design, I’m tellin ya! :)
I believe it is. It's by design and it would make for amazing racing provided the racers WANT to race clean. The penalty to outside car is to stop people turning in on others no doubt. In the ideal world this apparently is made for no one dive-bomb, no one barges, everyone races according to the rules of racińg. In that world the penalties would teach people to race hard but careful.
But in the real world where people start the video on sportsmanship and go for a break while it plays, not so much....
 
I've worked in video game QA before, you always have people playing in non-ideal ways during testing. The QA testers put in 8 hours a day on these games, they know track exploits and tons of game issues that will never see the light of day. Between QA at Polyphony and at Sony, QA definitely knows the issues with this game. It's the developer though that is choosing how to react to that feedback, not QA.
Not sure about that.

There may be a cultural difference between devs in Japan and US/Europe in how they test. My theory is it may be easier in Japan to identify and block users based on ISP than in the US or Europe. I believe Japan is primarily into console gaming. Don't hear a lot of about multi-player PC gaming.

So I think it may be possible that PD thinks they need to only focus on Motorsport rules and not internet civility or traditional gaming rules. Thinking those are external problems.
 
I wrote these lines the other day...
I hold that players should play accordingly, not impose their own personal ideas of pens (how things should be) onto the game.
Imo this should be all players.
I drive hairpins tight inside in this game, always have, now is a great time to be inside because there’s no pens.
Imo players should recognize what’s happening and adjust tactics according to what’s legal in game.
That’s the way it works in every sport I’ve ever played.
Until it’s a penalty it’s standard play...
I sort of think they are doing this inside is META bit because they want the player base to learn to race better...

Seems there’s some players in game diving and punting...
You have to adjust your driving accordingly...
If you enterup you gotta be aware of the current rules...
The rules are that you should avoid contact with others. That they are badly enforced is the problem. poor enforcement does not change the rules, it just changes what some people are willing to do to maintain an artificially high rating gained by punting others off the track.
As it currently stands the poor enforcement of the rules allows cheaters to prosper.

Not sure about that.

There may be a cultural difference between devs in Japan and US/Europe in how they test. My theory is it may be easier in Japan to identify and block users based on ISP than in the US or Europe. I believe Japan is primarily into console gaming. Don't hear a lot of about multi-player PC gaming.

So I think it may be possible that PD thinks they need to only focus on Motorsport rules and not internet civility or traditional gaming rules. Thinking those are external problems.
There may well be a cultural element wher Japanese are less inclined to game a system to gain an unfair advantage.
 
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The rules are that you should avoid contact with others. That they are badly enforced is the problem. poor enforcement does not change the rules, it just changes what some people are willing to do to maintain an artificially high rating gained by punting others off the track.

I’ve been racing b race today. It’s super fun hard racing.
Real life spec racing like Miatas gets rough..
It’s racing! It’s not painting rainbows with Mr Magoo!
Learn to protect yourself out there!
Racing online in a league or lobby is very different driving style than sport mode!
Race!
It’s not a hotlap contest! Put on your big boy pants and fight to protect and attack when the time comes!
 
I’ve been racing b race today. It’s super fun hard racing.
Real life spec racing like Miatas gets rough..
It’s racing! It’s not painting rainbows with Mr Magoo!
Learn to protect yourself out there!
Racing online in a league or lobby is very different driving style than sport mode!
Race!
It’s not a hotlap contest! Put on your big boy pants and fight to protect and attack when the time comes!
So the flaws in the system suit you. Good for you. Trying to claim these are the “rules” now is nonsense. T-boning cars outside you on a corner is not racing. If that is what floats your boat then have fun. Just don’t pretend it is racing. It’s gaming. Nothing wrong with that but don’t conflate the two.
FYI, my pants fit just fine.
 
So the flaws in the system suit you. Good for you. Trying to claim these are the “rules” now is nonsense. T-boning cars outside you on a corner is not racing. If that is what floats your boat then have fun. Just don’t pretend it is racing. It’s gaming. Nothing wrong with that but don’t conflate the two.
FYI, my pants fit just fine.

I’m not driving dirty, just racing hard and smart..
It’s fun!
I’m not experiencing everyone crashing each other out...Erickgtr in my last race on pole position!
It’s not as bad as the crybabies would make you think. You still control your sr over time...
People gotta lighten up!
Tidgney got one sec!!!!!! OMG Build an ark!
The end is near!
 
I’m not driving dirty, just racing hard and smart..
It’s fun!
I’m not experiencing everyone crashing each other out...Erickgtr in my last race on pole position!
It’s not as bad as the crybabies would make you think. You still control your sr over time...
People gotta lighten up!
Tidgney got one sec!!!!!! OMG Build an ark!
The end is near!
You say hard and smart, which the flawed penalties allow just now, others view this as dirty.
The simple fact is that if people didn’t try to game the system to increase the number they see on kudosprime then the problem with the penalty system would go away.
Shared blame, zero tolerance, no possible advantage from hitting another car. Then and only then will you find out who can race compared to who can play a video game.
 
Tidgney got one sec!!!!!! OMG Build an ark!

I think it's more the fact it happened on their official feed/channel which is an embarrassment in itself. The good thing by allowing streamers to feature on their channel, it can highlight faults of the system (similar to what already happened with Jimmy Broadbent) because unlike before, the only other videos were at the WT events where the system is inactive.

Maybe there's a small chance it might flip the switch and make them do something about it.
 
You say hard and smart, which the flawed penalties allow just now, others view this as dirty.

Don’t be calling people names like dirty.
I don’t punt, don’t dive, and race clean,
I just race hard and protect the inside.
I position my car so that people can’t take advantage, that’s all. I show my lines early don’t swerve.
I don’t barge pass, I wait for openings.
And, I’m having fun on race B!
It’s a great combo for someone like me who isn’t playing Tokyo drift out there!
I’ve just been finding NO penalties by racing hard (tough but fair)
So, for me right now the system isn’t hurting the fun! It’s actually making good racing on B today!
Fun battles! You don’t know me!
 
Or crybabies...

FairPlay.
I get worked up. Need to chill on the posting when in cabin fever and coffee!
My apologies to all.
It’s as someone said before, it’s fun as long as you don’t take it too serious.
I would use an acct you don’t care about and wouldn’t play seriously for rank right now.
It’s fun to race tho if you just don’t care and do it for fun...Maybe no qual until you start getting held up badly...If serious do a league or lobby...
 
The rules are that you should avoid contact with others. That they are badly enforced is the problem. poor enforcement does not change the rules, it just changes what some people are willing to do to maintain an artificially high rating gained by punting others off the track.
As it currently stands the poor enforcement of the rules allows cheaters to prosper.


There may well be a cultural element wher Japanese are less inclined to game a system to gain an unfair advantage.
After a year of racing in the Asia region I can say that while it might be 'less likely' it sure isn't uncommon. I have all the same barge pass and penalty manipulation problems from plenty of players regardless of the country they are from. I was behind a serial offender I have raced hundreds of times over many months. Very fast and smooth driver, loves to start from the back. If you hold him up longer than 1 turn, for any reason, you will be his victim. He either finds a way to get a nose inside, so yield or get the outside penalty as he pushes you off track, or he simply uses you as a brake to knock you off. He is japanese. I have raced with clean drivers from everywhere and dirty drivers from everywhere. PD should know how this works and I agree, they have made a conscious decision to prioritize inside position over everything else. You dont have to drive dirty, but be aware of the system and adapt to defend yourself. I refuse to let 1 muppet like that guy abusing the system overshadow the 2 good races I had last night. Sure I got penalized horribly in my first race, but the guy made an honest mistake and was already backwards when he hit me. I still finished well enough.
 
I think in this game you gotta lighten up and race hard.
Just did b race, the system doesn’t give pens if you cover inside off early and brake early and run tight.
People get pissy because they can’t bomb through if you defend hard but wth are you supposed to do? Pull over?
Just take a wide entry so they can dive and give you a pen?
Daily b is a fun one, IF you like to race hard. I haven’t had pen issues driving this way...yet...You CANNOT stay outside imo they will dive always, you gotta be cheeky and brake early on inside then if they hit you it’s no big deal...It’s a sprint so I will defend very hard, especially if it prevents pens which it seems to do so far...
There’s no point in caring much about points,
just have fun!
Race hard!
People seem allergic to fun...There’s no prizes or money at stake for crying out loud! You’re not going on a world tour!
Battling hard is fun!

Please post up some video examples so we can see them.
You are essentially saying PD wants to teach players to go in low and push up into the car on the outside? That's what most will do when going 2 wide thru a corner or driving the inside very tight, not everyone, just most people. I ain't buying that's what PD wants, there is either a flaw in their testing, they dont listen to the community (which we know as fact), or they are simply fumbling ****** who only care about how the game looks, Im starting to believe it's the last example. My question is if you are braking early to not get punted from the rear and staying tight inside and driving cleanly how are you not getting passed on the outside???
 
Please post up some video examples so we can see them.
You are essentially saying PD wants to teach players to go in low and push up into the car on the outside? That's what most will do when going 2 wide thru a corner or driving the inside very tight, not everyone, just most people. I ain't buying that's what PD wants, there is either a flaw in their testing, they dont listen to the community (which we know as fact), or they are simply fumbling ****** who only care about how the game looks, Im starting to believe it's the last example. My question is if you are braking early to not get punted from the rear and staying tight inside and driving cleanly how are you not getting passed on the outside???

Mate,
Don't try to find sense in his gibberish?! It's absolutely ridiculous.
No offense @Groundfish ... but man: are you high? :D:sly:
 
You are essentially saying PD wants to teach players to go in low and push up into the car on the outside?

No, that’s not their intent. As was mentioned above it would be ludicrous to assume that the adjustments they make to the sr system have no intent behind them.
This iteration protects the player inside closest to apex. I admit there’s always the possibility of error though. There’s a chance they will come out today and say you know we inverted some logic somewhere accidentally...jmo

My question is if you are braking early to not get punted from the rear and staying tight inside and driving cleanly how are you not getting passed on the outside???

You have to brake a LITTLE early anytime you go inside or you will either go deep and your opponent will crossover and pass on exit or worse you smash into them.
Going inside you go inside, you must hug tight (mostly thinking slow corners now).
You can’t dive in then leave a gap, PLUS if you don’t HOLD inside a good player can nose stick you and upset your car.
Being inside means the other car can’t get an angle on you to do anything at all even if they are actively trying to murder you. Inside means inside.
If you establish track position on the inside into a braking zone off a straight, the last thing you wanna do is get overeager and go past your opponents car and open up a crossover first off.
Second yeah you’ll be getting into the brake pedal a touch early but not 50 meters lol.
A good player will be like haha and nose their car a bit ahead, but you modulate your braking to match theirs, NOT going all the way past them on entry, just matching and ideally being about a half car length ahead of them and close to them. If you are close to them it’s safer because even if there’s contact it won’t be as dangerous. In this fashion there’s nothing they can do at all and your car is positioned to get on power earlier on exit.
You’ve neutered them there’s nothing they can do to you except fall in behind on exit and try to build an attack on the next part of the track. This doesn’t involve contacting them at all...This was not an idea I invented it’s taken from instructional text on real racing.
It requires brake modulation though, 99 percent of players in this game don’t have the ability to modulate braking. They only have their braking point and go 100 percent and their braking point plus the abs function determines their entry.
That’s not a good way to go about it imo.
In traffic car in front of you the situation is dynamic. You can’t just hit your mark as if no one is there, that’s why so many people rear end each other.
You have to look at other cars as part of the track in a race. In real time the situation is not static it’s dynamic. You have to adapt in real time to the situation.
Again none of this stuff comes from my own mind. I read it in books, and have been practicing it in game for over 24 months. These principles when applied keep you from receiving sr downs and penalties 99 percent of the time.
I’m not going to sift through tons of replays and put all the time in on video etc. I’m not interested in video editing or putting up videos.
I’ve recommended a billion times if people want to improve studying real racing.
There’s nothing wrong with that.
Like me, I’m not the fastest racer, I do my best, but others drive much faster. All I do is run consistent racepace and try to apply the principles I’ve learned.
It makes the game really fun for me to play.
Hey muhammed Ali thanks for your contribution to the discussion, and no I don’t do drugs.
 
Don’t be calling people names like dirty.
I don’t punt, don’t dive, and race clean,
I just race hard and protect the inside.
I position my car so that people can’t take advantage, that’s all. I show my lines early don’t swerve.
I don’t barge pass, I wait for openings.
And, I’m having fun on race B!
It’s a great combo for someone like me who isn’t playing Tokyo drift out there!
I’ve just been finding NO penalties by racing hard (tough but fair)
So, for me right now the system isn’t hurting the fun! It’s actually making good racing on B today!
Fun battles! You don’t know me!
I don’t recall calling you dirty. What I said was that some would interpret your method of playing to the penalty system rather than to the rules as being dirty. You have gone to great lengths to try and justify it, that’s fine. Others will disagree. Deal with it.
It is like the soccer player who dives to win a penalty or get an opponent sent off. It’s not playing hard and smart there, it is cheating.
 
ty. What I said was that some would interpret your method of playing to the penalty system rather than to the rules as being dirty

That’s a strawman. You don’t know me.
You clearly don’t comprehend what I allude to. Good day.
On top of it you call me a cheat.
What a sad joke. You don’t know how I drive.
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I’ve gotten so many great hours of enjoyment from GTS and I try to share things that have worked for me and contribute to the community, give back so that others might have more enjoyment. I’m not interested in wordsmithing and calling people dirty cheaters. That’s just toxic. Poison. It’s also quite ignorant to ascribe those evil qualities to a person you don’t know. You are not contributing anything positive here by doing this.
 
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That’s a strawman. You don’t know me.
You clearly don’t comprehend what I allude to. Good day.
On top of it you call me a cheat.
What a sad joke. You don’t know how I drive.
Like I said, others will disagree about driving and if you read what I said I was talking about soccer when I said that was cheating. I don’t know you or your team of straw men.
Explain to the clearly uninformed me how your startling new method work at turn 4 at Interlagos for example.
If you take the most inside line possible there you will get passed on the outside every time by a car moving much faster and you lose grounds all the way up the hill afterwards. The only way you don’t is by running your opponent off the track at the exit. Clean?
 
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