Penny Dreadful - Currency Discussion

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Do you think the penny, or lowest subunit of your own currency, should be scrapped?


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    70

Liquid

Fission Mailed
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Bratvegas
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Alternative Title: Penny For Your Thoughts

Whether it is one cent in the Eurozone and United States, or one pence in the Sterling Zone, the penny is a feature of most if not all major currencies.

british-one-penny-coin-8479157.jpg


But should the penny be stopped? There are arguments in many nations about withdrawing the smallest subunit, as well as arguments to retain it.

Elimination

Cost - Most countries' production costs of one penny is in fact more than one penny. In the United States it costs about 2c to manufacture a penny, and about 1.7p to manufacture one in the United Kingdom. A large amount of pennies are currently produced from cupronickel (copper-plated nickel) and this is now a costly procedure. The United States currently uses copper-plated zinc.

It should also be noted that most copper coins were made of 90% copper minimum up until the 1980s and 1990s, and this was stopped because manufacturing in pure or near pure copper made unit costs exceed the face value of the penny. Some countries such as the United Kingdom have looked at alternatives to this and looked for even cheaper alloys, and have manufactured pennies out of copper-plated steel since 2010.

Inflation - Because of inflation, the purchasing power of a penny has crashed over the last 40 years. Therefore, it has been suggested that the limited usage and practicality of the penny warrants its elimination.

Prior to decimalisation, the British farthing was the smallest denomination in the sterling zone, being worth 1/4 of a penny. By the 1950s it itself had become near worthless and was withdrawn in the 1960s, before the Pound actually went decimal. The British penny is nominally worth 9.6 times more than the farthing, but in reality because of inflation its purchasing power is actually less than half of a farthing.

Under British law, copper coins can only be legally used for debts and purchases of up to 20p and are almost never used in bulk and seldom accepted when they are.

Pollution - Because of its limited use and lack of real purchasing power, many pennies are discarded. Many end up in landfills and due to the use of metals like nickel and zinc, inadvertently contribute to air pollution.

Preservation

Consumers and price increases - It is argued by some that elimination of pennies would result in many shops rounding up their prices, hitting consumers in their pockets.

Inflation - While inflation has rendered the penny a seemingly worthless denomination, the penny itself is used to combat inflation, and keep prices down. Indeed, following decimalisation the United Kingdom minted a decimal halfpenny to keep inflation down, but the coin was withdrawn and demonitised in 1984 due to its unpopularity.

Eliminating the penny at all could result in an increase in inflation.

Charities - Despite the lack of purchasing power, charities argue that the penny is a vital source of income for them, and that eliminating lower subunits would be a major loss of income for them.

Current Status & Precedents

Australia withdrew its one and two cent coins in the early 1990s.

Canada
stopped minting pennies in 2012 and is in the process of withdrawing all old pennies.

Finland & the Netherlands no longer issue their own version of the 1 and 2 Eurozone cent.

New Zealand has withdrawn its 1, 2 and 5 cent coins.

Russia stopped issuing 1 kopek coins in 2010. Its 2, 5 and 10 kopek coins are worth US$0.002, $0.003 and US$0.02

By 2010, over a process of 40 yeas Sweden has eliminated its 1, 2, 5, 10, 25 and 50 oere and now has no subunit of its Krone.

While the United States retains its one cent, prices at its overseas military bases are rounded to the nearest nickel.

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Personally, I like pennies and am in favour of retaining them. However I do seem to have written plenty more on eliminating pennies than preserving them. I agree that charities are very grateful for one and two pence/cent coins and withdrawal might be a negative blow for charities.
 
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Consumers and price increases - It is argues by some that elimination the pennies would result in many shops rounding up their prices, hitting consumers in their pockets
Mainly this; we have the same problem with 1 and 2 Euro cents; but if they would decide to cancel them for sure the prices would rise YET AGAIN! :mad:
 
I say ditch it. I hate looking at a pile of pennies and thinking, wow, all those coins and only 45p? It's more trouble than it's worth.
 
Well that's entirely the point of why some people and most charities (I assume) would want to keep the penny. Even to a student, a handful of pennies has almost no purchasing power but one handful from one person donated to charity can mean an awful lot to someone else.
 
Keep it.

You really think prices are going to be rounded down? It'll be a price increase on everything.

Besides, in the US the cost of production of pennies (and nickels) are more than made up for by dimes, quarters and $1 coins.

Penny (1¢ face value) - 2.41¢ to make
Nickel (5¢ face value) - 11.18¢ to make
Dime (10¢ face value) - 5.65¢ to make
Quarter (25¢ face value) - 11.14¢ to make
$1 Coin (1$ face value) - 18.03¢ to make

I throw my pocket change into a bucket on my dresser every night, and every December I cash it in. Last month I got over $350 by cashing in my coin bucket.
 
But if you looked at the other coins, for the United States at least there is a positive difference of 4.35c for the dime, 13.86c for the quarter and 81.97 cents for the dollar coin. Plus, the nickel also costs more than double its face value to mint. Should the US have the dime as its lowest denomination?

So to manufacture $1.41 face value currency, one of each denomination, it costs the US Mint 48.41 cents.

Incidentally, how much does a $1 bill cost to manufacture? If the dollar coin is so cheap, that's good reason to scrap the bill.
 
But if you looked at the other coins, for the United States at least there is a positive difference of 4.35c for the dime, 13.86c for the quarter and 81.97 cents for the dollar coin. Plus, the nickel also costs more than double its face value to mint. Should the US have the dime as its lowest denomination?

So to manufacture $1.41 face value currency, one of each denomination, it costs the US Mint 48.41 cents.

Incidentally, how much does a $1 bill cost to manufacture? If the dollar coin is so cheap, that's good reason to scrap the bill.


$1 & $2 bills - 5.4¢ per note

$5 bill - 10.1¢ per note

$10 bill - 9.2¢ per note

$20 & $50 bills - 10.2¢ per note

$100 bill - 13.1¢ per note
 
Plus, the nickel also costs more than double its face value to mint. Should the US have the dime as its lowest denomination?

I'm ok with the nickel (for now;)), though I think that it would make sense to lower its cost of manuafacturing by reducing the amount of nickel in the nickel.

Respectfully,
GTsail
 
Well at the moment there is just 25% nickel in a nickel. The other 75% is copper, and it's generally the copper which makes coin production expensive. There's very little copper in a modern US cent (2.5% Cu) or British penny (exact percentage unknown).
 
I like pennies. Nobody in my school picks them up so I get a pretty good amount of cash by collecting them. Last year I made about 23 U.S. dollars. That might not seem like much but think of it this way, its free. I'm $23 richer than other people could have been.
 
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Keep it.

You really think prices are going to be rounded down? It'll be a price increase on everything.

The penny was eliminated in Canada last year. It hasn't changed anything besides no longer getting annoying pennies. When you add tax to purchases of multiple items there's no way that you're going to get screwed out of GASP 2 cents by every single company you deal with. Sometimes it gets rounded down, sometimes it gets rounded up. It evens out in the end and it's not worth making a big deal out of.
 
I've never really understood why USCAN has sales taxes, and why they're not added onto sticker or list prices anyway. If you're having to pay it, why not just know the full amount upfront?

And as noted, charities certainly don't find pennies or twopence annoying. There's always a valuable place for your shrapnel.
 
For what reason?

Too small to buy anything with or be worth the difference. There is no difference in value between a $1.51 good and a $1.50 good. What if somebody told you that we should introduce a half cent piece? You'd call them crazy. A penny is already worthless but a half cent? What good would that do?

Now what if I told you that the half cent was an American coin at one point and was taken out of circulation for the reason I stated above: It was worthless. In fact, I believe it was much more powerful than the penny when it was in circulation.

Furthermore exact change is impossible to predict because of how difficult it is to calculate what the total of a transaction would be during a face to face transaction. It is simply not worth the several seconds it would take to take the pennies out of your pocket and count them. This is why pennies sit in boxes for so long. Nobody wants to use them. Vending machines, parking meters, or laundry machines won't take them because they are not worth the space, time, and effort it would take to convert them into something usable.

As far as giving them charity goes, it is a waste of time for the receiver of your numerous pennies to attempt to convert them into usable cash. This is time that could be used for actual charitable work. Money does not exist to make giving to charity easier, it exists to make transactions easier.

Plenty of countries have eliminated the smallest division of currency without prices rising enough for anybody to care. The penny does not fulfill the purpose of currency anymore. Burn it.
 
I could very easily believe that the USA used to have a halfpenny because we had one as recently as 1984.

Having sticker and listed prices including tax might be a start for North Americans. As I've just posted, as someone who is used to having tax included in the price, I find it strange that you do not. It must be at least a bit awkward having to work out the percentages or additions, whether it is rounded up to the nearest one, two, five or ten.
 
I could very easily believe that the USA used to have a halfpenny because we had one as recently as 1984.

Having sticker and listed prices including tax might be a start for North Americans. As I've just posted, as someone who is used to having tax included in the price, I find it strange that you do not. It must be at least a bit awkward having to work out the percentages or additions, whether it is rounded up to the nearest one, two, five or ten.

I agree that prices should include the tax. A few shops around where I live price things at something like 5.68 to account for taxes. Maybe it will be the standard one day. Even if this were implemented tomorrow, I still believe the penny has outlived its usefulness for the reasons I listed above.
 
I could very easily believe that the USA used to have a halfpenny because we had one as recently as 1984.

They were last minted in the US in 1857

And they only minted 35,000 of them, so even then they were starting to become obsolete.

Respectfully,
GTsail
 
Coppers and 5p coins are just a pain. In my slinky tight jeans they just cause unnecessary unsightly bulges. :dopey: I have a coin sorter at home and they go in there at the end of every day. I just don't think of anything smaller than 10p these days. Therefore, I vote 'get rid'.
 
I agree that prices should include the tax. A few shops around where I live price things at something like 5.68 to account for taxes. Maybe it will be the standard one day. Even if this were implemented tomorrow, I still believe the penny has outlived its usefulness for the reasons I listed above.

Fair enough.

Should the penny be eliminated, do you think the nickel or the dime should be the lowest denomination? Nickels cost twice their value to manufacture, so there's a big saving to be had.
 
For what reason?
Because it keeps everything even. I say get rid of the nickel too. Hell get rid of all change and use strictly dollars.

Look at it this way. You have an electric bill that is $194.37. Would you rather it just be rounded down to $194.30 or $194 so you can pay in cash with no change?

Or, you go to the store. It's $1.56 for a 20oz bottle of Mountain Dew. Would you rather just pay $1.60 (rounded up) so you don't have to fish for pennies, and have a wad of change in your pocket when you give them $2?


Makes life a lot easier and you wouldn't have to wait in line as long for them to give you change. Give them the cash and be on your way.


Get rid of change in general, include the tax in the price. Round up or down based on which side of that $5 mark it's on. Life would be much simpler.
 
I'm kindof in favor of getting rid of coins altogether actually. I can be persuaded to keep the quarter I suppose, but I wouldn't mind if the quarter were killed too.
 
There are £5 coins available as well, also known as a crown in numismatics, but they're seldom used in actual commerce because of their rarity. Their collectable value exceeds their face value.

Definitely cost more than 4p to manufacture though.
 
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