Petition to change the rules for digitally delivered goods in the Consumer Rights Act

[Animera]

Haha! Actually, making sure I have the right setup loaded is helping me win.

 

[PzR Slim]

Haha! Actually, making sure I have the right setup loaded is helping me win.

Yeah, you're defo winning but some people just look for the problems rather than the solutions.

I feel sorry for anyone who can't get hours and hours of enjoyment out of PCars 2. Yes it has some bugs, none of them game breaking, unless your idea of game breaking is something that is inconvenient. There is so much to do and so many features that make the gameplay truly genre leading. If you can play a game with such fantastic features and only see the few inconveniences then I'm not sure any game out there will satisfy you.

 

[Chikane_GTR]

Yeah, you're defo winning but some people just look for the problems rather than the solutions.

I feel sorry for anyone who can't get hours and hours of enjoyment out of PCars 2. Yes it has some bugs, none of them game breaking, unless your idea of game breaking is something that is inconvenient. There is so much to do and so many features that make the gameplay truly genre leading. If you can play a game with such fantastic features and only see the few inconveniences then I'm not sure any game out there will satisfy you.

Same

135 hours later and 10k miles with the gtr and i still get a big smile on my face every time i load up PCARS 2

@OP

 

[jake2013guy]

If the game loads the wrong setup for an online race, that may not be game breaking for you, but it is for me. You guys must take your online racing super casual.

If I spent 6 hours making a tune, and the game doesn't load it when I race, that's a complete waste of my time. Makes me want to not play at all. Breaks the game for me.

And thanks for the spelling lesson @jake2013guy, what would I do without you? Never occurred to you that sometimes iPhones auto correct words to other words, and people miss it? Really helps you prove your point though

Game breaking is not subjective though. It either breaks the game or doesn't. If there was a bug causing the game to crash when you start a career or enter an online race, that is game breaking. Not being able to load a setup is not game breaking.

I can't think it's me but what I highlighted in bold sounds incredibly elitist. People play the game the way they want. If you have a problem with that, get off the internet. There are 8 billion people in this world. Not everyone's the same like you.

I feel sorry for anyone who can't get hours and hours of enjoyment out of PCars 2. Yes it has some bugs, none of them game breaking, unless your idea of game breaking is something that is inconvenient. There is so much to do and so many features that make the gameplay truly genre leading. If you can play a game with such fantastic features and only see the few inconveniences then I'm not sure any game out there will satisfy you.

Same here. I can't disagree with this at all.

 

[twitcher]

Game breaking is not subjective though. It either breaks the game or doesn't. If there was a bug causing the game to crash when you start a career or enter an online race, that is game breaking. Not being able to load a setup is not game breaking.

I can't think it's me but what I highlighted in bold sounds incredibly elitist. People play the game the way they want. If you have a problem with that, get off the internet. There are 8 billion people in this world. Not everyone's the same like you.



Same here. I can't disagree with this at all.

If everyone plays the game differently, then what breaks the game for various people will be different. It's all subjective. You don't get to sit there and decide for others what is considered broken and what is not.

And why are you and your whole squad so concerned that everyone has to like and enjoy the game like you do? Do you really think you're contributing anything by saying "you're wrong for not enjoying the game in its current form!!"

 

[jake2013guy]

If everyone plays the game differently, then what breaks the game for various people will be different. It's all subjective. You don't get to sit there and decide for others what is considered broken and what is not.

Broken =/= game breaking.

And why are you and your whole squad so concerned that everyone has to like and enjoy the game like you do? Do you really think you're contributing anything by saying "you're wrong for not enjoying the game in its current form!!"

I could say exactly the same thing about your category of people.

 

[PzR Slim]

You don't get to sit there and decide for others what is considered broken and what is not.

But you do?

 

[MABlosfeld]

the more I read the more I wonder what is the real point of so much complaint. Broken Game, Money Repayment, Misleading Marketing?
Sorry guys but I do not believe that's the main reason for such a complaint.
Every day I log into this and other forums and I can say with 100% certainty that there is no 100% perfect game, everyone has some kind of mistake, but all games are playable.
Sorry buddies, I may be wrong but I believe the real point here is frustration. There are people who create a very great expectation for a given game making the virtual world more important than the real world itself. This is dangerous and should be treated with medicine.
.

 

[jake2013guy]

the more I read the more I wonder what is the real point of so much complaint. Broken Game, Money Repayment, Misleading Marketing?
Sorry guys but I do not believe that's the main reason for such a complaint.
Every day I log into this and other forums and I can say with 100% certainty that there is no 100% perfect game, everyone has some kind of mistake, but all games are playable.
Sorry buddies, I may be wrong but I believe the real point here is frustration. There are people who create a very great expectation for a given game making the virtual world more important than the real world itself. This is dangerous and should be treated with medicine.

That's plainly obvious to me and has been all along. If he really cared, he'd have made the thread in the Console & PC Games category and aimed it less towards a specific game and more the games industry as a whole. That's where he loses his credibility in my book.

 

[Joey D]

We're rating higher than GT Sport and Forza and I have to read guff like this.

According to whom?

Metacritic has Forza 7 at an 86, which is the exact same at PC2.

According to our site, which probably has the best reviews out of the hundreds I've read for all three games, GTS is on par with PC2 and Forza 7 is higher than both.

As a developer though you should expect criticism for your work. You might not want to hear it, but these people paid $60 or more for your product and have the right to complain if it's not what was promised or doesn't work to a adequate degree. There are several threads regarding bugs and many long time sim racers have submitted complaints and bugs dealing with the game.

If you don't want to hear people talking ill of your game, perhaps you could check out Pretend Race Cars.

I respect that you joined the forum to interact with fans of the game, but with a message board as large and as influential as GTP is, you're going to get a wide array of opinions.

Good luck with your petition. You'll put more than us off of the notion of raising the bar in this genre.

Shouldn't you want to better your work regardless of what others think?

 

[twitcher]

Broken =/= game breaking.

Whatever that means

I could say exactly the same thing about your category of people.

My category of people? People who bought the game, reported issues, and were told we're wrong for having the issues? I can't speak for anyone else, but my whole aim was to try to help to improve the game, for everyone. I got crapped on by people like you who think I'm being an asshole for trying to make suggestions on areas that could be improved and fixed. Now I've got so frustrated dealing with people like you in this "community" that it makes even talking about improvements a god damn chore.

But you do?

yes, I get to decide what breaks the game for me. You get to decide what breaks it for you. Tough concept, eh?

 

[PzR Slim]

That's plainly obvious to me and has been all along. If he really cared, he'd have made the thread in the Console & PC Games category and aimed it less towards a specific game and more the games industry as a whole. That's where he loses his credibility in my book.

Bang on! If he was posting similar threads on every forum out there for every 'broken' game then I could buy it.

yes, I get to decide what breaks the game for me. You get to decide what breaks it for you. Tough concept, eh?

And that's what we are all doing, expressing our opinions, welcome to a discussion forum! So we are not sitting here deciding for you, we are telling you we disagree with you and you don't appear to like it, tough concept, eh?

 

[twitcher]

According to whom?

Metacritic has Forza 7 at an 86, which is the exact same at PC2.

According to our site, which probably has the best reviews out of the hundreds I've read for all three games, GTS is on par with PC2 and Forza 7 is higher than both.

As a developer though you should expect criticism for your work. You might not want to hear it, but these people paid $60 or more for your product and have the right to complain if it's not what was promised or doesn't work to a adequate degree. There are several threads regarding bugs and many long time sim racers have submitted complaints and bugs dealing with the game.

If you don't want to hear people talking ill of your game, perhaps you could check out Pretend Race Cars.

I respect that you joined the forum to interact with fans of the game, but with a message board as large and as influential as GTP is, you're going to get a wide array of opinions.



Shouldn't you want to better your work regardless of what others think?

Thanks for this post. It really summerizes what is the issue in the situation here, and in my opinion, it's the attitude of the devs. Literally, I just want to talk. I want to figure out how we can work together to improve various aspects of the game...but I'm the asshole here. I realize my tone has gone in a direction which might not suggest that, but it's attitudes like Ian's that have pushed me to being a little less courteous in the way I express my opinion.

 

[jake2013guy]

Whatever that means

I'll explain to you in basic terms. If a feature doesn't work properly, it's broken. If a feature causes the game to literally break (E.g. crash) then it's game breaking.

My category of people? People who bought the game, reported issues, and were told we're wrong for having the issues? I can't speak for anyone else, but my whole aim was to try to help to improve the game, for everyone. I got crapped on by people like you who think I'm being an asshole for trying to make suggestions on areas that could be improved and fixed. Now I've got so frustrated dealing with people like you in this "community" that it makes even talking about improvements a god damn chore.

And we're told we're wrong for not having the issues you're having, we bought the game. We get crapped on by your side for not experiencing what you are. Your side going around making petitions saying how they're about the "games industry" yet making it in the forum for a specific game. Don't say we've said the game's perfect. I've never said it is. Do I think it's the most complete modern racing game on the market? Yes. Do I think it's perfect? No. I've constantly said how GT's graphics are far better for example.

Literally, I just want to talk. I want to figure out how we can work together to improve various aspects of the game...but I'm the asshole here. I realize my tone has gone in a direction which might not suggest that, but it's attitudes like Ian's that have pushed me to being a little less courteous in the way I express my opinion.

If you're constructive about it and provide evidence and don't rant and make threads like this, we're happy to have this discussion. But this is nowhere near the thread for it and I think we can agree on that. I can't really see any way other than a dumpster fire for this thread to end up in.

Also, what do you mean attitudes like Ian's? He's admitted there were problems with PCARS1 and done what they can to fix them and the game's being supported for at least a year.

As a developer though you should expect criticism for your work. You might not want to hear it, but these people paid $60 or more for your product and have the right to complain if it's not what was promised or doesn't work to a adequate degree. There are several threads regarding bugs and many long time sim racers have submitted complaints and bugs dealing with the game.

From my understanding, he's not annoyed about people being unhappy with his game. What he's annoyed about is that people are making a petition arguing it's for the "games industry" and then putting it into a forum of a single game highlighting that game's issues only. He's openly admitted they didn't do well enough in x in PCARS1 and haven't done as well as they thought for PCARS2 in AI for example.

Shouldn't you want to better your work regardless of what others think?

I think that comment is more about developers being put off making games due to excessive regulation more than wanting to improve his.

 

[Joey D]

From my understanding, he's not annoyed about people being unhappy with his game. What he's annoyed about is that people are making a petition arguing it's for the "games industry" and then putting it into a forum of a single game highlighting that game's issues only. He's openly admitted they didn't do well enough in x in PCARS1 and haven't done as well as they thought for PCARS2 in AI for example.

It sure comes off like he's irritated that people don't like his game and find faults in it. Even look at other forums (not GTP) it sure seems like it too.

I think that comment is more about developers being put off making games due to excessive regulation more than wanting to improve his.

Regulations wouldn't be needed if game developers didn't over promise and under deliver. Also if they delivered a working product then there wouldn't be an issue. If I buy a car brand new and it's junk, you bet I'm going to see what I can do about getting my money back to some degree. Obviously a video game is less expensive, but $60 for a product is still fairly pricey for most people.

I'm personally not a fan of government regulations on things, but I understand why they exist.

 

[FuriousDemon]

I’m pretty sure pCARS 2 will be patched many more times, no matter what people say on these or other forums.

 

[jake2013guy]

Regulations wouldn't be needed if game developers didn't over promise and under deliver. Also if they delivered a working product then there wouldn't be an issue. If I buy a car brand new and it's junk, you bet I'm going to see what I can do about getting my money back to some degree. Obviously a video game is less expensive, but $60 for a product is still fairly pricey for most people.

Yes. But this would open the door to legal cases galore. One guy finds a bug and a good enough lawyer, they can argue how it breaks this law and then you'll see a fall in the games industry. Nobody wants to make games because there's a chance somebody will find an issue and a good lawyer and developers lose a lot of money out of it. If you don't think that will happen, you're underestimating the size of the gaming population and the variety of people within it.

However, if it was actually about the gaming industry, he wouldn't have put it in the forum of one game and put it in the general gaming discussion.

 

[crowhop]

"Contributing Writer" for this site...

Man, they just don't make an eyeroll emoji quite dramatic enough for this thread.

 

[twitcher]

"Contributing Writer" for this site...

Man, they just don't make an eyeroll emoji quite dramatic enough for this thread.

You can eye-roll your way right out of the thread if this is a convo that you feel is beneath you.

What does him being a contributing writer have to do with anything? He's not allowed an opinion on the subject?

 

[Imari]

Do you really think you're contributing anything by saying "you're wrong for not enjoying the game in its current form!!"

That's not what anyone is saying. They're pointing out that some bugs does not equal an unplayable game. The closest SMS ever got to an unplayable game was Shift 2 with it's input lag, and even that wasn't actually unplayable. It was just frustrating and weird.

The bugs that I've seen bandied around for pCARS 2 are well into the "inconvenient but whatever" category.

Regulations wouldn't be needed if game developers didn't over promise and under deliver. Also if they delivered a working product then there wouldn't be an issue.

Are either of those really the case here, though?

 

[twitcher]

Yes. But this would open the door to legal cases galore. One guy finds a bug and a good enough lawyer, they can argue how it breaks this law and then you'll see a fall in the games industry. Nobody wants to make games because there's a chance somebody will find an issue and a good lawyer and developers lose a lot of money out of it. If you don't think that will happen, you're underestimating the size of the gaming population and the variety of people within it.

However, if it was actually about the gaming industry, he wouldn't have put it in the forum of one game and put it in the general gaming discussion.

If you actually read the thread, OP doesn't label himself a gamer, and admits he didn't know this was common practice across the infustryX. He only plays one game, but now he has to take on the entire industry?? C'mon man.

 

[mattikake]

If you want to change the world @mattikake , a thread on the GT Planet forum is not the place to try.

Who said it's just on here? It's also doing the rounds on other forums, Facebook and YouTube at the moment. There's a national paper that has expressed an interest in the story, but I'm not interested in selling a story, I'm just trying to improve things for everyone. I haven't added other avenues yet. But it's a petition. Anyone can pass it round to whoever they like.

Is it impossible to save set ups? Is it a case of it not working as intended and a ball ache but possible?

As I've recently discovered, there appears to be a hidden setup limit (or yet another very odd bug). I have a GT3 car I'm trying all over the place and have only a few setups on about 1/5 of the tracks and I reached a point where I can't save any more setups.



I know it's a hidden limit, because I deleted what older setups I could and can now save more. At this rate though it seems you won't even be able to have 1 setup per car per track. Whether the limit is accidental or deliberate I have no idea... Of course, like many other issues it's exacerbated by the bug that doesn't allow you to overwrite a setup - for instance changing fuel and tyres specific to a race or session.

Not saying this is game breaking but it's pretty embarrassing.

 

[PzR Slim]

Who said it's just on here? It's also doing the rounds on other forums, Facebook and YouTube at the moment. There's a national paper that has expressed an interest in the story, but I'm not interested in selling a story, I'm just trying to improve things for everyone. I haven't added other avenues yet. But it's a petition. Anyone can pass it round to whoever they like.

We are all behind you brother!

 

[mattikake]

...re: career mode... Not ideal, sure, but in the eyes of the law this still probably wouldn't qualify as game breaking. This is just an educated guess, but as far as the law is concerned the bar for "game breaking" is probably very high and they won't care about these little complaints.

Only stating that others have found this game-breaking re: the subjectivity of the problem. I haven't touched the career mode since I had to delete my saves to cure the slow menus bug.

I'm not interested in getting SMS fined/penalised at this moment. I'm only interested in making the buying and selling process fairer, hence why the petition is worded generally. Yes, this was with the option in mind of it going to any gamers who have issues with any other game and feel that a game has been mis-sold via digital download.

 

[Corsa]

I really think the mods need to move this thread to the general gaming sub-forum as @Scaff had suggested.
Or, at least add GT Sport to it as the Polyphony Digital CEO straight lied to us about...
https://www.gtplanet.net/gt-sport-online-experience-around-15-total-game/

 

[mattikake]

Yes. But this would open the door to legal cases galore.

No it wouldn't. The DSR's/CCR's only gives you the right to return a product for a refund without reason in 14 days. Nothing more. If you are refused that refund then there would be a serious and easy legal case.

I do honestly wonder sometimes if people so certain of what is morally right or wrong with petitioning the government for legislation change (and someone's right to do so), really know how the world works that they live in. But then the ruling elite have always relied on the ignorance and weakness of the masses.

However, if it was actually about the gaming industry, he wouldn't have put it in the forum of one game and put it in the general gaming discussion.

I asked the mods if it could be moved early on (but you do realise this would mean exposing it to other gamers. Given you can't cancel someone's signature out, this would be strategically unwise if you don't want to be protected by these regs.). As I have stated several times, it was only put here because many can relate to WHY I created the petition. That is all.

 

[crowhop]

You can eye-roll your way right out of the thread if this is a convo that you feel is beneath you.

What does him being a contributing writer have to do with anything? He's not allowed an opinion on the subject?

Sure thing, kid.

But I do find this thread useful to find those who are simply griefers and should be ignored.

 

[mattikake]

But I do find this thread useful to find those who are simply griefers and should be ignored.

The world never got better by people stubbornly accepting status quo.

 

[PzR Slim]

But then the ruling elite have always relied on the ignorance and weakness of the masses.

So because we don't share your opinion we are ignorant and weak? Give yourself a shake.

It's entertainment, and like music, dance, art, theatre, movies, football, comedy, etc, sometimes you don't like or enjoy what you paid for. That's part of the deal, accept that and pay your money or don't accept it and keep your money in your pocket. Simples.

Taking your idea to it's ultimate conclusion you end up with a load of devs who take zero risks on the software they create and publish so as not to fall foul of your ideal. They would push out safe titles that could not possibly contain any bugs for fear of going under.

Personally I wan't devs, musicians, film makers, etc to push the boundaries of what is possible to give me the best experience I can get. I don't want to live in a world where everyone plays it safe with my entertainment. My car or gas cooker yes but not my entertainment. And with that I accept that they wont always get it right but that's a price I'm willing to pay to have some of the spectacular experiences I'm having in PC2.

 

[McKiernan]

As I've recently discovered, there appears to be a hidden setup limit (or yet another very odd bug). I have a GT3 car I'm trying all over the place and have only a few setups on about 1/5 of the tracks and I reached a point where I can't save any more setups.



I know it's a hidden limit, because I deleted what older setups I could and can now save more. At this rate though it seems you won't even be able to have 1 setup per car per track.

Okay, so you can save set ups then. Cheers