Physics are improvement over GT Sport but wheel force feedback is terrible..

  • Thread starter Klik
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Theiceman1
@PirovacBoy so,care to share your wheel settings, both in game and on fanatec profile. So we can give it a try?
Click to expand...
Of course no Problem.
It’s no Vodoo Stuff or any sort of Magical Setup that will completely turn the Game around.
But, before I share them I want you to first get an understanding why and what my approach was.
First of all and most important is that I started to understand GT7s‘ FFB “Language“
What is there, what information do I get?!
What Information is actually NECESSARY! to drive appropriately.
What Feedback is needed and what is unnecessary Noise which needs to be removed.

I tried to match the Signal 1:1 to what’s going on, on Screen.
You simply just can’t only pay attention to the Signal.
You also MUST use Audio/Visual Feedback too, to exactly match it.

If these Components are in Balance, trust me, you’ll experience how good the overall Driving Experience feels in GT7.
Bored of all that BlaBla…😂 ?!
I‘m just starting 😬
Next very very important thing is Driving within YOUR Limits, not the Car.
Your Car is not the limiting Factor, it’s YOU.
ALWAYS be aware of that hence don’t overdrive the Car. Stay within your Limits and slowly widen them.
Lap after Lap.
Get a feel for information what the Car/FFB is giving you.
In a Racing Video Game our Limiting Factors are
Visual Feedback
Audio Feedback
FFB
Combine them.
Just mashing the throttle/brake is the wrong approach. You won’t learn anything!
Slooooowly, Gentle be Patient with your inputs.
Get the right Mindset when playing GT7 and you’ll experience what I’m talking about.
But enough of my Explanations, I could write on for hours 😅

Use these for Fanatec GT DD Pro :

Turn natural Damper down to 0 !!! Updated Value
Turn Interpolation down to 10 !!!
Turn FFF Torque down to 4 in Game !!!
Turn FFB Sensitivity to 1 in Game !!!
Turn up Tire Squeal to +2 db !!! Very important

Use Cockpit View Type 2 !!!
Use ABS on Weak !!!

That’s it, simple isn’t it 😁

Update: Changed Torque to 4 in GT7, now it’s perfect with the GT DD Rim.
Change Torque to 5 if using the McLaren GT Rim.
 
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PirovacBoy
Of course no Problem.
It’s no Vodoo Stuff or any sort of Magical Setup that will completely turn the Game around.
But, before I share them I want you to first get an understanding why and what my approach was.
First of all and most important is that I started to understand GT7s‘ FFB “Language“
What is there, what information do I get?!
What Information is actually NECESSARY! to drive appropriately.
What Feedback is needed and what is unnecessary Noise which needs to be removed.

I tried to match the Signal 1:1 to what’s going on, on Screen.
You simply just can’t only pay attention to the Signal.
You also MUST use Audio/Visual Feedback too, to exactly match it.

If these Components are in Balance, trust me, you’ll experience how good the overall Driving Experience feels in GT7.
Bored of all that BlaBla…😂 ?!
I‘m just starting 😬
Next very very important thing is Driving within YOUR Limits, not the Car.
Your Car is not the limiting Factor, it’s YOU.
ALWAYS be aware of that hence don’t overdrive the Car. Stay within your Limits and slowly widen them.
Lap after Lap.
Get a feel for information what the Car/FFB is giving you.
In a Racing Video Game our Limiting Factors are
Visual Feedback
Audio Feedback
FFB
Combine them.
Just mashing the throttle/brake is the wrong approach. You won’t learn anything!
Slooooowly, Gentle be Patient with your inputs.
Get the right Mindset when playing GT7 and you’ll experience what I’m talking about.
But enough of my Explanations, I could write on for hours 😅

Use these for Fanatec GT DD Pro :

Turn natural Damper down to 6 !!!
Turn Interpolation down to 10 !!!
Turn FFF Torque down to 3 in Game !!!
Turn FFB Sensitivity to 1 in Game !!!
Turn up Tire Squeal to +2 db !!! Very important

Use Cockpit View Type 2 !!!
Use ABS on Weak !!!

That’s it, simple isn’t it 😁
Click to expand...
Much appreciated.
What about the other settings?
Sen
Ff
Ffs
Nfr
Nin
Fei
For
Spr
Dpr
 
HugoTwoWheels
The FFB is perfectly fine here. Nothing happens visually that I don't feel. And I drive mostly by feel, not by visuals. Many others apparently also find it perfectly fine (no way they could be so fast and consistent otherwise).
Click to expand...
You don't have to feel anything to drive consistent, just drive it over and over again and memorize how things behave. Good FFB just makes it easier to be consistent quicker.
 
PirovacBoy
Many seem to misunderstand that you don’t feel Chassis Movement with a Wheel. This is felt through your Pants and of Course G Forces which Someone shall explain to me how on earth those can be felt through a Steering Wheel.
It’s physically impossible.
Click to expand...
This is simply not true.

Do engineers try and dial out as much noise, vibration and harshness from a car as possible? Yes they do, but until they are able to physically disconnect every part of a car from the road surface, from each other, and also isolate the car from g-forces that's never going to happen (and it would defy the laws of physics - so it's not going to). So unless your steering wheel isn't connected physically to your car, its going, to a lesser degree, be subject to those forces as well. So no it's not physically impossible that they can occur, it's physically impossible for them not, to a degree, be transmitted.

Now with the amount of bushing and damping in a modern road car, most people are not going to pick up on it, or even know what it was if they did, and Seat of Your Pants, is a more direct route, but to claim it's physically impossible, sorry, but that's untrue. Are they so secondary and muted in road cars in reality to be of almost no use? 100%, but that doesn't mean they are absent, and I've driven cars old enough that the chassis flex and movement caused issues with the steering column itself (got to love '70s convertibles). It also ignores the fact that chassis movement is connected to load transfer, and load transfer affects the suspension, and the front suspension is directly connected to the steering, so once again we can feel the effects of what is occurring dynamically on the car via the steering.

That aside, unless you have at the very least a telemetry driven tactile rig or motion rig, the absence of these forces can be a problem, and them being sent via the steering FFB is, for some, a viable alternative.

As for GT7 having the best FFB around? Not even close, it's not even in the top 50%, it's missing detail, it's missing gross forces from curbs of all sizes, and it still gets understeer and the loss of self-aligning torque at the driven wheels utterly wrong.
 
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br1x
You don't have to feel anything to drive consistent, just drive it over and over again and memorize how things behave. Good FFB just makes it easier to be consistent quicker.
Click to expand...

Great point. I agree. But, with the more dynamic driving circumstances in GT7, I hope that a driver will be more dependant on adapting from lap to lap instead of just driving by memory.
 
Scaff
This is simply not true.

Do engineers try and dial out as much noise, vibration and harshness from a car as possible? Yes they do, but until they are able to physically disconnect every part of a car from the road surface, from each other, and also isolate the car from g-forces that's never going to happen (and it would defy the laws of physics - so it's not going to). So unless your steering wheel isn't connected physically to your car, its going, to a lesser degree, be subject to those forces as well. So no it's not physically impossible that they can occur, it's physically impossible for them not, to a degree, be transmitted.

Now with the amount of bushing and damping in a modern road car, most people are not going to pick up on it, or even know what it was if they did, and Seat of Your Pants, is a more direct route, but to claim it's physically impossible, sorry, but that's untrue. Are they so secondary and muted in road cars in reality to be of almost no use? 100%, but that doesn't mean they are absent, and I've driven cars old enough that the chassis flex and movement caused issues with the steering column itself (got to love '70s convertibles). It also ignores the fact that chassis movement is connected to load transfer, and load transfer affects the suspension, and the front suspension is directly connected to the steering, so once again we can feel the effects of what is occurring dynamically on the car via the steering.

That aside, unless you have at the very least a telemetry driven tactile rig or motion rig, the absence of these forces can be a problem, and them being sent via the steering FFB is, for some, a viable alternative.

As for GT7 having the best FFB around? Not even close, it's not even in the top 50%, it's missing detail, it's missing gross forces from curbs of all sizes, and it still gets understeer and the loss of self-aligning torque at the driven wheels utterly wrong.
Click to expand...
Thank you for explaining it from a Physical Point of View. Very technical and it makes sense to me.
Though, it perfectly backs up my Conclusion that it’s absent or muted down so much that it actually can’t be felt or noticed. Exactly like in real life from my experience.
So GT7 does it right in that regard.
Having those forces being sent to a Wheel might be a nice Gimmick or like you said a viable option, but in reality it’s actually not a realistic replication of what a Real World Steering Wheel feels like.
 
PirovacBoy
Thank you for explaining it from a Physical Point of View. Very technical and it makes sense to me.
Though, it perfectly backs up my Conclusion that it’s absent or muted down so much that it actually can’t be felt or noticed. Exactly like in real life from my experience.
Click to expand...
It does, and almost every title on the market gives players the option of if they want them or not, with most allowing you to scale them.
PirovacBoy
So GT7 does it right in that regard.
Click to expand...
And yet it gets so much wrong it still falls down overall.
PirovacBoy
Having those forces being sent to a Wheel might be a nice Gimmick or like you said a viable option, but in reality it’s actually not a realistic replication of what a Real World Steering Wheel feels like.
Click to expand...
If you don't have telemetry driven tactile or motion on a rig, then you don't have a realistic replication of what a car feels like either, and lets be clear, this isn't even an option with GT7! It strikes me as a bit odd to complain about having this being unrealistic, when for the majority it's attempting to make up for another, much bigger and more unrealistic absence!

But it once again comes down to PD not getting that options are good for players.
 
I'm afraid that PD was far more concerned with making the feedback for the DualSense as perfect as possible and neglected the masses of steering wheels to simply give them more and "better" feedback. This better does not necessarily have to be closer to real life, it should transmit more information via the hands that is otherwise perceived by the rest of the body.
From what I've heard and read about the DualSense in GT7 so far, that must be an incredible step forward.
It remains to be seen whether "we" will somehow be able to enjoy this luxury with our n steering wheels.
But perhaps all of this paves the way for a whole new generation of steering wheels and pedals. Anyway, we can only live with what is currently in the game or prefer another game.
 
PirovacBoy
Thank you for explaining it from a Physical Point of View. Very technical and it makes sense to me.
Though, it perfectly backs up my Conclusion that it’s absent or muted down so much that it actually can’t be felt or noticed. Exactly like in real life from my experience.
So GT7 does it right in that regard.
Having those forces being sent to a Wheel might be a nice Gimmick or like you said a viable option, but in reality it’s actually not a realistic replication of what a Real World Steering Wheel feels like.
Click to expand...

I think sim wheel feedback is meant to be different to real life because as you mentioned earlier a lot of feeling in a car when driving around tracks comes from your arse cheeks and g forces which you simply don't get in driving/racing sims. Sims then try and replicate the back end coming loose or the front losing grip by feeding those senses back through the steering wheel.

I totally agree though from driving on tracks myself, most (especially modern) cars are very numb in the steering wheel and you don't get much feedback from them, drive by wire and power steering has seen to that.
 
smilerftm
I totally agree though from driving on tracks myself, most (especially modern) cars are very numb in the steering wheel and you don't get much feedback from them, drive by wire and power steering has seen to that.
Click to expand...
It's unlikely you've driven a steer-by-wire car on track or road, they are still (thankfully, incredibly rare).

The only full production road car I can think of would be the Q50, and even then in was scrapped and replaced by a traditional system. If I recall a Cayman GT4 and Merc-AMG GT3 with it have competed and done well in the ADAC 24-hrs at the 'ring.
 
First of all im using Logitech G29.

The physics are improvement over GT Sport but force feedback is such a disapppointment. How the hell game in 2022 that call itself a real driving simulator can't have some effect of rear/front tyre losing grip, understeer/oversteer effect when wheel goes a bit light, some tiny effect of tarmac surface to at least to able to feel im driving on something.Its so annoying having to guess what car is doing.

I love this game but honestly they need to adress this.
 
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There is an understeer vibration for what it's worth. But yeah, hit a sausage in a corner and the car goes wild while the wheel doesn't even react lol. Very different to like iRacing where small bumps can feel pretty violent.
 
I feel like i cant control a slide... In every other game (SIMs, which should be harder to control i think) I can hold a slide and not spin on any tire... Street Tires, Sport Tires, Slick Tires....

On GT7 on the slightest oversteer the car is on an unrecoverable spin.

That bogs me down a little to play on wheels.
 
@Klik GT7 has a very different FFB compared to any other Racing Game I’ve played.
Its FFB is not meant to replicate or simulate the Road, but rather what the Car actually would feel like through the Steering Wheel.
Therefore I think it very much feels disconnected to many of us.
And yes I agree that at first it feels strange compared to other Racing Games out there, but when you compare it to the Feeling you‘d get through a Steering Wheel in real Life, you should immediately notice how authentic and unique it feels.

GT7s‘ FFB is not as informative in that way as other racing Games, which give you information about tires or Suspension.

Again, pay attention to it next time you sit in your Car.
Do you notice the Suspension through the Steering Wheel?!
Do you notice Tire Grip through the Steering Wheel?!
Do you notice G Forces through the Steering Wheel.
Yes, 3 times No…😉
You see what I mean.
Other Racing Games we Play do simulate all or parts of these Sensations, so many of us wrongfully misjudge what actually truly IS felt through the Steering Wheel only in real life.
Like @Scaff explained to me in another thread and I totally agree with him, to us Virtual Racers we mainly have to rely on these Feedback Sensations as it’s the only physical Feedback we can get.
Not exactly his words but that’s what I think he tried to explain so don’t quote me on this @Scaff 😅
And yes to some of us it is very important to get that Feedback or at least like he said and again I fully agree, it would be nice if at least the Game would let us decide to choose to have it or not.
But again, GT7 goes its own unique Path in that regard, and if you compare it to the Actual Real Life Feedback you get through a Steering Wheel, I think it’s pretty much the closest in terms of Authenticity.

My impression is that somehow the whole Physics Model in GT7 is more based towards front end feel of the Car. And that absolutely makes Sense.
Why?!
Because that’s how it works in real life too.
Again like @Scaff also mentioned and explained to me ( sorry to quote you again😁 ) but the Steering Wheel is the only part of the Car which is directly connected to the front axle.
But because of the internal Damping in the Steering Column, most of the Road Feel feels numb through the Steering Wheel thesedays in modern Cars.
We NEVER feel what the rear tires are doing in real life. NOT with a Steering Wheel.
That’s where our PooPoo Meter comes to play.
So again to sum it up because I somehow have the impression that you are simply going to ignore what I’m trying to explain but in fact is basically the truth, GT7 is what it is.

Some will like it, some won’t.
I‘m in the first Boat sitting in the first Row and absolutely enjoy the drive 😁
 
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PirovacBoy
@Klik GT7 has a very different FFB compared to any other Racing Game I’ve played.
Its FFB is not meant to replicate or simulate the Road, but rather what the Car actually would feel like through the Steering Wheel.
Therefore I think it very much feels disconnected to many of us.
And yes I agree that at first it feels strange compared to other Racing Games out there, but when you compare it to the Feeling you‘d get through a Steering Wheel in real Life, you should immediately notice how authentic and unique it feels.

GT7s‘ FFB is not as informative in that way as other racing Games, which give you information about tires or Suspension.

Again, pay attention to it next time you sit in your Car.
Do you notice the Suspension through the Steering Wheel?!
Do you notice Tire Grip through the Steering Wheel?!
Do you notice G Forces through the Steering Wheel.
Yes, 3 times No…😉
You see what I mean.
Other Racing Games we Play do simulate all or parts of these Sensations, so many of us wrongfully misjudge what actually truly IS felt through the Steering Wheel only in real life.
Like @Scaff explained to me in another thread and I totally agree with him, to us Virtual Racers we mainly have to rely on these Feedback Sensations as it’s the only physical Feedback we can get.
Not exactly his words but that’s what I think he tried to explain so don’t quote me on this @Scaff 😅
And yes to some of us it is very important to get that Feedback or at least like he said and again I fully agree, it would be nice if at least the Game would let us decide to choose to have it or not.
But again, GT7 goes its own unique Path in that regard, and if you compare it to the Actual Real Life Feedback you get through a Steering Wheel, I think it’s pretty much the closest in terms of Authenticity.

My impression is that somehow the whole Physics Model in GT7 is more based towards front end feel of the Car. And that absolutely makes Sense.
Why?!
Because that’s how it works in real life too.
Again like @Scaff also mentioned and explained to me ( sorry to quote you again😁 ) but the Steering Wheel is the only part of the Car which is directly connected to the front axle.
But because of the internal Damping in the Steering Column, most of the Road Feel feels numb through the Steering Wheel thesedays in modern Cars.
We NEVER feel what the rear tires are doing in real life. NOT with a Steering Wheel.
That’s where our PooPoo Meter comes to play.
So again to sum it up because I somehow have the impression that you are simply going to ignore what I’m trying to explain but in fact is basically the truth, GT7 is what it is.

Some will like it, some won’t.
I‘m in the first Boat sitting in the first Row and absolutely enjoy the drive 😁
Click to expand...
GT7's FFB still does things inaccurately in comparison to reality, it's most noticeable in regard to Self-Aligning Torque and how GT7 fails to reduce this during understeer as you would (very much) feel in reality.
 
I think it could be a code issue on Poly's end. The FFB on my G29 is awful, and I've tinkered with every conceivable setting I can think of. When you are not getting the input from the road, the front/rear of the car or the curbs, it's a scary driving experience. I'm hoping there's a fix coming, because I believe this can be solved through coding.
 
XSquareStickIt
I'm also on a G29 wheel. I do not exaggerate when I say that the FFB in GT7 feels almost nonexistent. I tried the BB Raceway and Mount Panorama Circuit Experiences in an Atenza Gr.4 and 650S GT3 respectively.

I have no idea at all when approaching the front tyres' grip limits when trail braking until I'm understeering in the Atenza. Hitting kerbs does nothing. When applying power out of a corner in the 650S, I pretty much have to know beforehand how much steering angle and power I can apply before the rear tyres let go, because, again, I felt absolutely nothing from the wheel. It's either complete guesswork, or you have to know exactly what the car can do. RWD road cars are five times worse despite some having five times less power.

Thing is, I have heard many streamers, some of them very accomplished with real life racing experience, such as Jimmy Broadbent, praise the FFB in the game, or at least, didn't complain about it. I've never had anything other than the G29 and I've only dabbled in PS4 AC outside of Gran Turismo, so I don't know if my opinion that the FFB is lacking in GT7 is a very informed one or not.

AC even on PS4 and my 7 year old G29 feels like sensory overload, especially with a hardcore car like the Exige on the Nordschleife. In GT7 every car feels the same. I don't think it's a problem with my wheel, but I can't make sense of why GT7 feels so numb. I mean, they did have an official DD wheel made for the game, didn't they? Whatever for if the game isn't going to capitalise on it?

Is it perhaps the combination of a G29 and GT7 that produces such awful results? Can anyone with more experience shed some light on this for me? Much appreciated.
Click to expand...
It's not a problem with your wheel. It's a problem with the game.
 
I'm writing this in hope that some Polyphony dev will see it.

As a huge GT fan this time overall physics have improved over GT Sport but force feedback is worst i ever seen.

I'm on logitech G29 and also tried Fanatec GT DD 8nm. In GT7 you can't feel kerbs,oversteer/understeer, can't feel when tyre is losing grip and wheel go light. You can't even feel track surface, its like huge disconnection between car and track. It's so annoying and unrealistic and it needs to be fixed.

There is absolutely no reason apart from Polyphony's lazy work that we can feel all those effects in Assetto Corsa/Project Cars 2 and not in GT7.
 
What are your settings? On a G29 too at 4/6 you can definitely feel some of the track surface and grip information. It's not great and I wish we could tweak it further but it's there.
 
@Klik hey Mr. Klik, I have an honest question.
How many Threads do you think you have to start to make People convince about your Nonsense Theory.
I already tried to explain to you in two different Threads you opened where more or less you state the same Nonsense.
Every time you didn’t felt the need to respond.
So my question to you is, honestly, what is the purpose of opening all these Threads with more or less the same Complaints, only asked in a different way.
It’s always the same.
You claim that the FFB is bad and don’t feel anything.
Ok cool.
That’s your Statement.
I got it. I assume others here too.
So what is it you want to hear 🤔
The FFB is phenomenal from my Point of View.
I feel everything I would feel in real life too through my Steering Wheel.
It’s perfect.
I can feel everything you say that you’re missing.
This is the 3rd time I respond to one of your nonsensical Threads.
Not that you’re not allowed to ask , but I honestly am asking myself what is your intention 🤔
Do you want People here to support your Nonsensical Theory???
Do you want People to give you an advice of how to maybe make the FFB feel better on your Wheel.
Are you bored??? Frustrated???
Are you looking for some advice????
Tell me please what are your intentions.
I‘m always willing to help People and to me you definitely seem to be someone who needs help.
Let me help you 🙂
 
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So I only have the T248, which is really a cheap steering wheel.But I don't see it that dramatically. Yes, here and there information is missing or very weak and I think this is the rub.For many, the information that will arrive will be far too fine and too subtle and the pure violence that you know from other games will be missed.
As an example: My steering wheel is still attached to a tabletop with a clamp. In GTS I had to reposition the steering wheel every few hours because it had shifted.
I don't have to do that anymore in GT7, because the forces are much lower and that miserable rattling when understeering is gone.But if I e.g. Practicing on my favorite CE on the Ring, I can feel every necessary little detail of what my BMW is doing, I can already feel almost every blade of grass and notice every little mistake before I see it. I also notice immediately when the car loses weight.
What I really wish for are FFB effects on the pedals and in the seat, then the feeling would be perfect.
 
Well given I switch a lot between GTS and GT7 (to have worthwhile lobby races) the FFB in GT7 is noticeably weak. GTS is a joy in comparison. Same wheel settings, same game settings.
 
@mattikake , then you’re FFB Settings must be wrongly Set up.
I play on the DDPRO too and I can assure you I can feel EVERY little Detail I need to feel or think I should feel through my Steering Wheel, the same as I’m used to from my Real life Experience.
And honestly from that point of View I understand why you say that GTSs‘ FFB feels better to you, although it’s Worlds away from GT7.
It’s your Settings 100% 😉
 
PirovacBoy
@Klik hey Mr. Klik, I have an honest question.
How many Threads do you think you have to start to make People convince about your Nonsense Theory.
I already tried to explain to you in two different Threads you opened where more or less you state the same Nonsense.
Every time you didn’t felt the need to respond.
So my question to you is, honestly, what is the purpose of opening all these Threads with more or less the same Complaints, only asked in a different way.
It’s always the same.
You claim that the FFB is bad and don’t feel anything.
Ok cool.
That’s your Statement.
I got it. I assume others here too.
So what is it you want to hear 🤔
The FFB is phenomenal from my Point of View.
I feel everything I would feel in real life too through my Steering Wheel.
It’s perfect.
I can feel everything you say that you’re missing.
This is the 3rd time I respond to one of your nonsensical Threads.
Not that you’re not allowed to ask , but I honestly am asking myself what is your intention 🤔
Do you want People here to support your Nonsensical Theory???
Do you want People to give you an advice of how to maybe make the FFB feel better on your Wheel.
Are you bored??? Frustrated???
Are you looking for some advice????
Tell me please what are your intentions.
I‘m always willing to help People and to me you definitely seem to be someone who needs help.
Let me help you 🙂
Click to expand...
Try to run Assetto Corsa and tell me there's no difference in feeling of grip and overall what is car doing. There's no way it feels same as GT7. I guess im just annoyed why they make so little effort for wheel in GT and i want it to be better in terms of ff. I know its a game made for controller but h onestly you can't say GT7 and AC feel the same in terms of feeling of the car and ff overall
 

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