Physics changing between empty and full online rooms

  • Thread starter jon-
  • 62 comments
  • 6,353 views
Hi guys.
Great findings !

In my case, I´ve race with friends here in Argentina, and in one case there were only 2 of us. My friend was driving with a pad and I had a DFGT. And I swore to God, that he was faster than me with no explainable reason...
In that moment I feel like a real idiot, because we were in Monza, and that is a track I like to race... and he was WAY faster than me...

Maybe its, like Jon- pointed, related with the wheel.... Could it be possible?.

Jon-, can you organize a race with your friends, in that all of you race with a pad, at least 3 o 4 laps?

This is an amazing thread, no doubt.

Astro_BS-AS
 
jon-
Oh, the other interesting thing is we timed some of the replay laps against a stopwatch.

1.28.9 in game, 1.27.1 on stop watch
1.30.6 in game, 1.28.3 on stop watch
1.32.6 in game, 1.30.6 on stop watch

Second race 1st lap 1.49.2 - stop watch 1.45.0.

I timed someone who "wasn't affected", and while there was still a variance between the in game time and the stopwatch time, it was less...
Click to expand...

Thats damn right shocking. Excellent discoveries here, this could mean that its not a change in physics but simply a timing error, I'd imagine its quite a task getting accurate time triggers etc... over incosistent internet lines.

Does this happen only during a race or also during the qualifying times?
 
balang_479
Thats damn right shocking. Excellent discoveries here, this could mean that its not a change in physics but simply a timing error, I'd imagine its quite a task getting accurate time triggers etc... over incosistent internet lines.

Does this happen only during a race or also during the qualifying times?
Click to expand...

FWIW, in our example all our quali laps were fine, though obviously there's no replay to time against.

I've got some of the older "ok" races replays saved so I'm going to check the lap times against a stop watch with those when I get the time.
 
If all of this is actually happening it is scary. I have a phat ps3 and dfgt wheel plus 1080p, so based on your findings does it mean I am going to be slower compared to others no matter how hard I race? Dissapointing to say the least.

But I would try to omit all of this, if not I could find myself really depressed if things do not go as good as I might thought it should be.

Could someone tweet Yamauchi to shed some light?
 
jon-
Bit more of an update. I've canvassed all the drivers for the following

Resolution
Control method
Mic status
View
Version of PS3
How much they think they were affected.

Interestingly we almost all ran 1080i/p, there was a mix of slims and fats affected, it didn't seem to matter if the mic was on or not, however there was one clear difference.

Of 12 drivers who replied 7 were on a wheel and 5 on a pad.

Of the 7 drivers on the wheel 6 drivers reported being slowed by around 5/seconds a lap.
Of the 5 drivers on the pad only 1 reported being slowed, and only very slightly (compared to the wheels huge loss)

If there any official way of submitting a bug report to PD? I don't think we're going to get any further here.
Click to expand...

It could be that due to the nature of the pad being larglly lock or straight and on/off with the buttons compared to the wheel people with the pad are able to make up for the difference more easily just like it's a little easier to drive through obvious lag with a pad than a wheel simply because of the increased time invovlved to simply change steering angle with a wheel vs a pad.
 
Devedander
It could be that due to the nature of the pad being larglly lock or straight and on/off with the buttons compared to the wheel people with the pad are able to make up for the difference more easily just like it's a little easier to drive through obvious lag with a pad than a wheel simply because of the increased time invovlved to simply change steering angle with a wheel vs a pad.
Click to expand...

Could well be, but watching the replays it actually looks like the guys on the pad could carry a higher apex speed.

I'm happy to upload the replays if anyone wants to check them out.
 
I have not done too much online racing, until yesterday. I was in a public room for a couple of hours doing 'dirty' NASCAR racing, physics were fine. Even with 12 or so people on track.

I then went into a room that had Indy Road Course, 500hp limit, no other limits or restrictions, 7 people in the room/on track. I used my ZR1 RM that I most recently used at the Monza World Tracks Seasonal. The car was great at Monza, stuck like glue. At Indy, the car was junk! On R3 tires I had hardly any grip for the entire 3 lap race. Felt like S3 tires. I even sat out a race, watched live, people were on Racing tires.

Just to make sure the car was ok, I went back to Monza. The car felt precise. Having only 500hp yielded a mid pack finish.

It's very discouraging and makes me not want to race online.

Using T500.
 
Last night i was in my normal lobby with the guys i race with all the time only 6 or 7 of us,
I was was driving pretty good starting from last and getting podiums within 1 second of 1st place.

Then more people joined and i had no grip at all and spun off every race for the rest of the night, Starting to think your onto something here, I'm a wheel user to and most the people in the lobby are on pads.
 
BTW, I do not have a slim PS3. I think it would be a good idea to omit "slim PS3's" from the thread title, as the problem is not isolated to those.
 
I have the newest fat 80G (smaller hd) and have also noticed it, but nowhere near the degree of 4 seconds, and generally I run faster in the race with more people.
 
JamboGT
Different track surfaces make cars handle differently, Indy road famously has a low grip surface.
Click to expand...

I need to race it offline...

There was a difference between the Free Run session in the room compared to the actual races.
 
Another Sunday, and another interesting race.

This time we were at the Ring (24h), this isn't as high draw as SSR7, nor can you be as precise with your laptimes as on a shorter track, however it seemed some of us had much more pace in one race than the other.

The plot thickens.
 
Last night I ran a tuned Fiat 500 race on Deep Forest with approx 14 players. I ran 4 consecutive laps in free-run mode within 2 tenths. Come race time I was 4-5 seconds per lap slower. The car seemed to have far less grip and straight line speed.

There were many others suffering the same problem, all using wheels. The ones that didn't seem to suffer marching off into the distance were using the dual shock controller.

The game is broken. :crazy:
 
I always thought it had something to do with internet connection since it mainly affect larger rooms.
I usually race 6-12 players so I dont really notice it.
This might be part of the physics updates.
 
I dont know what most of you are talking about. I dont experience huge differences in the physics, whether there is 2 or 16 people in the room. If no lag is occuring, my lap times are the same with 2 or 16 people. There is no bug, its just people's connections. Same goes for offline/online physics. They are the same as long as there is no lag online.
 
Then explain why the FTO Super Touring Car sticks like glue offline/ online same setup the car oversteers, no matter the setup oversteer, to test try going to pritice or arcade try the car out I use nur ring. Then take the car to lobby with people in it or not and try driving same car nothing but oversteer
 
I can run in the low 6 min at the ring but in a lobby with or without people I struggle to get under 7 min with the FTO super touring car, why?
 
offline practice and online lobbies have ALWAYS had different physics, with the online lobbies having less grip.


This discussion is based around online lobbies having LESS grip when full than when empty.
 
jon-
Right, I'll try and keep this short. I'm not sure if it's been covered before, I couldn't find it using a search.

I race in an online league which has full grids (16 people) most weeks. We mostly run standard cars with no modifications on sports soft tyres. Damage full, grip reduction real, tyre/fuel wear on.

During the week we all practice in small groups and as we're all pretty consistent, we find our groove and can mostly run within a few tenths of that.

A couple of times I've noticed on certain courses, courses I'd call "high draw" courses (lots for the playstation to process) the physics of the cars change when the room fills up and (mostly the slim users) get a little frame rate drop.

Case in point: Last night we raced on Special stage route 5 reverse with standard Lambo Merc LP640 SVs.

During mid week practice a number of us were running low 1.25s and high 1.24s in practice races without problem. Come race day, those of us who were running the 1.25's qualified 1st, 2nd and 3rd (all of us on slim PS3s). When the race started and the sheer number of people gave us all a little FPS drop the cars felt totally different, with the best times from all of us 1.29s.

Other people, who didn't qualify as strongly and are traditionally slower drivers were able to run their normal pace. Fighting them on track with identical cars and identical tyre wear it was like they were on different tyres! They had so much more grip to hit the apexes and power out of corners.

We even changed hosts for the second race and I checked the replay and we were all on the same tyres so we can rule out the following:

- cars
- setup
- tyres
- tyrewear issues
- driving style
- room
- internet connections

The only variance I can see trending is it seem to hurt those of us with a 'slim' PS3 more.

Any ideas? Known bug?
Click to expand...
hmm i race ferrari f1's either full room 16 or less than 10 or just me practicing , always with tyre wear/fuel load and real grip

no differences in lap times

maybe if there were bit of frame lag , it could affect what you do but that rarely happens to me

all i can say is the physics online is perfect simulation except for the f2007 which i think is way too easy , infact easier than pd karts :/ its grip is too is arcadish although it can carry more speed due to the arcadish grip at the same time its so easy.
 
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It's not lag, it's the screwed up netcode in GT5. It is totally messed up and it is probably something that will never be fixed because they would have to rewrite the code completely to fix it.

There are tons of examples of online race sims where the netcode timing is done properly and lag or latency does not affect physics or lap times. Live for Speed, iRacing, rFactor, etc.

The netcode for GT5 is FUBAR. Learn to except it.
 
Has this been fixed? If not, there will be a ton of pissed off racers once Spa gets here. It's only 'real' use be for online racing.
 
Interesting discussion. I've definitely experienced that feeling of something wrong with more people. Bandwidth issues would be my guess as part of the problem. Upload is always the most detrimental thing in online games (generally people always have enough download). So if it is an issue with DS3 controls vs steering wheels, my question (since I do not know the answer): does the precision of steering wheels mean that those who use steering wheels have to upload more data (i.e. more precise data) than a DS3 user? If so, then when they have to send that additional data to more people they might experience a bandwidth issue and lose time or grip(?).
 

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