Pirelli Porsche RSR Trophy Season 2 -Cancelled Due To Low Entries

[dabz343]

It does indeed takes a fair amount of dedication to run a series, thank you for organizing this fun event.

Sorry for the contact Waike. As stated post race, you understeered into my rear quarter which induced my slide across track. Certainly not my intention to cause havoc on lap 1.

Racecar, I race hard but always maintain my composure when it comes to racecraft. All of my defensive moves came early and deliberate, and was in no way reactionary. I enjoyed our battle, you race well.

As you ponder the changes for season 2, here's some suggestions for you to entertain during the lengthy off season.

1. Bring tire and fuel wear more to the forefront. A series that does not reward smooth driving isn't going to attract worthy drivers. Suggest at least 3x tire wear for RH for a 20+ laps. Keeping pace without overheating the tires is a real skill and racing on 50% tread is loads of fun.
2. Rethink heavy damage. It just introduces too much chance (or undeserved misfortune), especially in a short race without pits. If you insist having it, and there is a good reason to have it, perhaps optimizing the number of laps with the right tire/fuel wear could require a mandatory pitstop. Then, a nominal damage could be repaired without jeopardizing the whole race (Waike and I could have made an early pit to repair our lap 1 damage at Catalunya).
3. Different tire compounds would also add depth, especially if pits become required. This would also make sense if you decide to conclude with an endurance at Bathhurst.
4. Turn on shortcut penalties. I've never met a competitive driver that did not need a reminder about track limits. Hence, the logic of an honor system is flawed. It sounds good, but when the pressure is on, most of us crumble. Plus, if you make a mistake or a misjudgment as the tires are wearing down, you should accept a slight penalty. Again, reward the skillful driver. This is fundamental if you want to attract talented drivers.

Good luck!

 

[NoirAntares]

@dabz343 made some really good points here but I want to give my two cents on some of them.

1. As appealing as progressive tire wear sounds, being able to keep a consistently high pace at normal tire wear takes just as much skill and is equally rewarding. It's been the theme of this series and those that have won races have demonstrated that.

2. THIS. Even though Heavy damage is there to force everyone to be careful, the amount of first lap incidents and the effect it had on the series championship and driver participation is clearly the opposite of what was intended. Yes, aggressive driving should be penalized, but Light damage should still give enough leeway to allow closer racing without risking anyone being taken out of the running early.

3. If races are to be held at longer distances then I agree that multiple tire compound options should be taken into consideration.

4. Kinda disagree, but only because in-game shortcut penalties have the tendency to be awarded even in situations where going off-track has already had a negative effect on lap time, among other inconsistencies, and that alone can ruin a good racing experience.

Penalties should only be given to intentional and/or habitual track limit infringements, and wouldn't it be unfair to penalize a driver that already negates any potential advantage by slowing down or giving back any position unfairly gained? Not to mention running the risk of having penalty-carrying drivers dangerously slowing down to a crawl to eliminate penalties.

Track limits have always been an issue regardless of series, but reporting to the stewards has remained an effective method imo, especially if someone wanted to give enough effort to put their fellow racers under a microscope if they felt so strongly about it.

 

[dabz343]

As appealing as progressive tire wear sounds, being able to keep a consistently high pace at normal tire wear takes just as much skill and is equally rewarding.

Absolutely, keeping a consistent pace takes skill at any wear level. Even the guys that run without wear will say the same. Making wear prominent will increase the skill necessary to maintain consistent pace. Currently at 1x wear on RH for 22 laps seems like a missed opportunity. There is no need to be concerned about overworking the tires or being smoother because the tires never really come into play, even on the last lap. It's too close to running without any wear.

Kinda disagree, but only because in-game shortcut penalties have the tendency to be awarded even in situations where going off-track has already had a negative effect on lap time, among other inconsistencies, and that alone can ruin a good racing experience.

Penalties should only be given to intentional and/or habitual track limit infringements, and wouldn't it be unfair to penalize a driver that already negates any potential advantage by slowing down or giving back any position unfairly gained? Not to mention running the risk of having penalty-carrying drivers dangerously slowing down to a crawl to eliminate penalties.

How do yo define intentional or habitual? 3 sequential times over the same corner? Or 5 times over the same corner in a race? What's the right criteria for defining intentional vs habitual? What about all 4 wheels off track 50% of the time? Are they all just 10sec penalties? You're getting into murky territory that invites unnecessary effort to address when there is already a simple solution.

There is no good reason for running any racing series without a strong track cutting penalties. It's the one rule that has a huge impact on lap times and that's why GTS has enabled it in every Sport Mode and FIA races. It also dramatically lightens the load for stewards, and at the end of the day, secures the fact that nobody took liberties on track limits...perhaps this last point is the most important to keep in mind when creating a new series that wants to attract talented drivers.

Anyway, just some thoughts for the organizer to ponder for season 2. Cya in 2020.

 

[CrazyJohn]

Shortcut penaltied just wipes out the "respect track limits" part as you'd get a penalty even if you lose time by going wide.

 

[gedazz]

Thanks again for organizing this. Can't wait for the next season!

 

[NoirAntares]

My final say would be this, "Simple" solutions may be the one thing that ruins a good wheel-to-wheel race because the game doesn't take enough racing situations in consideration. I'm not confident in entrusting real-time judgments to a still flawed system, even if its used in official events.

But all that's up to next season. Hopefully I can experience the same intense competition against the high level of talent here.

 

[dabz343]

What ruins a good racing series is cheaters that abuse track limits and act dismayed when someone calls out the infraction. Frankly, you have been found guilty and given a 10sec post-race penalty as a result of your deviant performance at Redbull, so you may personally find GTS's track limits less than desirable. But consider the alternative and ask yourself, did my cheating just ruin the race for everyone?

If everyone honored the season 1 rules outlining track limits, this would not be an issue. But like I said, some just crumble under pressure and got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

There are many, many parameters that invite good, hard and fair racing. Being allowed to sneak in track limit abuse here and there under the radar is definitely NOT one of them. And in your case, habitual abuse. If others do not believe my words, take a look at the Redbull race for yourself. You will be shocked...what person with any sense of honor cuts corners 50+ times, then cries foul to another driver for recommending changes to track limit rules?

Let me put it in simple terms -- it's a$$holes like you that ruin good races and you would be wise to change your posture because your reputation (if it means anything to you) is in jeopardy.

 

[NoirAntares]

What ruins a good racing series is cheaters that abuse track limits and act dismayed when someone calls out the infraction. Frankly, you have been found guilty and given a 10sec post-race penalty as a result of your deviant performance at Redbull, so you may personally find GTS's track limits less than desirable. But consider the alternative and ask yourself, did my cheating just ruin the race for everyone?.

How a generally faster pace ruining the race for everyone is something I can never understand.

If we look at the lap times of where my track limits were to the acceptable standard and those that contributed to my 30s penalty, I doubt we'd see as big gains to your lead as you make it out to be. I had simply committed enough infractions to the point it was unacceptable. Did I crumble under the pressure? Yes, after getting collected in a lap 1 incident I was desperate to make ground, and maybe went over the limits more times than I personally wanted. I am not going to defend myself as to why I got penalized.

But, seeing as you felt just as strongly against the top 2's track limits in Catalunya, which were mostly acceptable according to the stewards apart from a few liberties, I'd suggest you ask yourself, "Is track limits the only reason I couldn't convert pole into a good result? Assuming my pole lap was in perfect track limits, where did that pace go?"

 

[dabz343]

You can't just reason away the advantage the way you are because you're biased. This is another avenue that opens up that muddies and unnecessarily drains energy to resolve. Thus the simple solution to turn on shortcut pens is ideal. I rest my case.

If you're genuinely asking me what happened at Catalunya and not being a ass, then the answer is this. After I achieved pole, I didn't get the best start but what hurt the most was the heavy damage that dropped my pace 2 sec/lap. To be fair, you were better at Catalunya vs Redbull, but far from ideal. When I ran your corner cutting line, I was in the high 1.44.6xx. See the thing is, you don't know what pace I have or for that matter what pace anyone has, because you are not staying within the limits that everyone else is honoring. You think a couple of inches of cutting is no big deal, just part of good, hard racing. Which is a shame because we all know it can amount to +0.5 sec or more at the end of the main straight, like at Catalunya and that's just the last part of the chicane.

Do everyone a favor, just stop cutting corners. That's it, nothing more. Stop being a baby and pick up the pace when it comes to honoring the rules. It's that simple kid. Nothing ruins good racing between like-minded drivers than selfish individuals that can't seem to do the right thing.

 

[NoirAntares]

Obviously prolonging this discussion won't do any of us any good.

I'm conceding my Red Bull performance as a bad display of sportsmanship which I apologize for (if anyone wants to make a vid of how to not follow track limits out of it, be my guest), if it ruined the experience for anyone else besides our good gentleman racer here. I am not defending any of the evidence submitted for Catalunya either, but I will I say I was more conscious of my driving there, staying within limits for majority of the two races.

I genuinely enjoyed the competition, but I'm not exactly proud of this drama right now. Again, apologies to everyone for muddying the post-season talks with this, it's really unbecoming of any racer.

 

[dabz343]

Who in their right mind is going to enjoy racing with a cheater? Wow you're sort of stuck in a lame situation where your words have lost their weight due to your actions on track.

The right thing to do was, offer a sincere apology and not repeat the offense, but at the very least, don't defend not turning on track shortcut penalties after your horrible display of sportsmanship at Redbull. All of this had to be said because you don't really understand what honor and trust is, or being reasonable for that matter...I suspect you still live in a fog despite someone taking the time to illustrate the merits of doing, and communicating, the right thing.

Most of the fast guys know each other and believe me, word gets around pretty quickly.

 

[TheFlash05]

I wasn't initially going to leave a post season comment here, but as I want @AudiMan2011 to succeed at this I've now changed my mind.

#1, Driving standards were pretty poor as a whole. Whether I competed or not, I saw allot of post race penalties handed out to the same drivers for the same infractions. This alone is what stopped me competing in the final round (if I was even allowed to)

#2, Track limits, I don't have an issue with this being self monitored. if you get reported for it, so be it. Its the race directors decision to hand out penalties. But once again, I've never seen this reported so often. Saying we should use PDs system wont work for the reasons CJ & Noir have both stated. Its to imperfect to rely on.

#3, In my own opinion, this series, with this car, would benefit from no tuning. It will level out the playing field, let it be a drivers series rather than a tuning series. Fast drivers will still be at the front, but it would allow others to be able to improve their race-craft and stick with it. IMO.

Congrats @Antares26 for your championship.

Lets try again next season.

 

[dabz343]

What is the criticism for GTS' track limit pens? Is it the fact that additional time is added on top of the lost time of going wide? I agree the time lost to making a mistake and running wide or off track seems suffice, but this is not the only instance where the system activates. You can't simply just cite one scenario and conclude the whole system does not have merit. This is unreasonable.

On the flip side, GTS's system will ensure that any infringements giving an advantage to the offender (both going wide and cutting - @monza, Redbull, Catalunya, etc) will be dealt with immediately and without subjective interpretation. There is no need for post-race analysis and drama (this is exhausting for the steward and fellow racers), and most importantly, maintains the integrity of a race by levying judicious actions in real time.

Take the same critical eye that deems GTS system as inadequate and apply it to the honor system. Given the realities from drivers like Noir, the honor system is even further from ideal.

 

[WaikeCU]

Sorry for the contact Waike. As stated post race, you understeered into my rear quarter which induced my slide across track. Certainly not my intention to cause havoc on lap 1.

Hey Dabz! Yeah no problem. What happened, happened. You take wide entry, tight exit. I went tight entry, wide exit. Thus meant we would've met somewhere it the middle of the turn. So we did... sadly.

This is my feedback post on all the above:

- I think the Pirelli Porsche RSR Trophy has the characteristics of a Sprint series. Two sprint races on a race weekend. It should remain as it is with some slight adaptations.

- Therefor I believe Bathurst Endurance should not be included in this series. BUT (there's a but!) I do however, think that a one off endurance race hosted seperately by a third party with only GT3 cars or can be hosted. All driver's can participate and that the points achieved by our Championship drivers will count double and count for this Championship. If we participate, we have to drive Porsche's RSR's ofc.

- Regarding Heavy Damage, I believe it should stay for realism and for warning drivers not to be overly aggressive. Even though I was lots of times victim of having damage in a race; it's part of the sport, racing and the competitive gaming.

- Track limits penalties? Most of the championships I drove didn't have track limit penalties. Reason is that sometimes one can have a slight twitch under braking sending you off across the chicane for example. This is because of a mistake and not to take advantage out of the action. GTS would (sometimes) see that as cutting the corner. Track limits issues should be reported afterwards.

- I like the bonus points idea

- Different racing tires, each round? Racing compound decided the round before? Decided by the first driver who finishes outside the points? It's just an idea.

- We all drive the same car. Then why use BoP? Why not use 100%/100% power/weight ratio? I think then the car is at how it really is. BoP is useful when you run different cars from the same category together.

- If use 100%/100%, Drivers who finish outside the points can add additional 1% power the next race. This can bring the field closer together I think.

See you all next season!

 

[CrazyJohn]

If use 100%/100%, Drivers who finish outside the points can add additional 1% power the next race. This can bring the field closer together I think.

In a fewer words: success ballast.

 

[NoirAntares]

In a fewer words: success ballast.

Power actually works better than weight as success ballast so that might be a good way to go if we do put a system in place next season.

 

[AudiMan2011]

Thought I would issue a few updates on the thread about Season 2.

-Bathurst finale will remain under the standard twin race format with standard points.
-Reverse grid Race 2 will be scrapped for a success ballast system. Likely leaning towards power reductions.
-Races will likely be shifted to a timed format, with an increase in distance to around 45 minutes per race.
-Lobby opening time may be pushed back to around 5pm EST (10pm GMT), with Race 1 hopefully starting before 6pm EST.
-Looking into adding additional strategy by implementing softer tire compounds across the field, along with accelerated fuel and tire wear.
-Car specs will remain equivalent to the 911 Cup car and will not be increased to mirror the new GT2 Clubsport.

I also have a provisional calendar with a start date penciled in for January 18th 2020. Dates subject to change in case of clashes. A switch to Fridays will be a possible fallback. Circuits are also subject to change depending on what new tracks are added between now and January.

 

[AudiMan2011]

We are live once again!! We have some shiny new OP graphics and a timed race format locked in for Season 2.

Signups are now officially open for Season 2 starting on January 10th 2020. Form remains as is, but now with the addition of confirming secondary livery sponsors. Leave blank if you will be running just one livery.

GTPlanet ID:
PSN:
Nationality:
Team:
Number:
Primary Livery Sponsor:
Secondary Livery Sponsor (up to 4 Races):
Availability (Full Time or Part Time):

 

[Jump_Ace]

What time of day are the races? I didn't see it in the OP, sorry if I missed it. Unlikely I could make it being in the US, but you never know.


Jerome

 

[AudiMan2011]

What time of day are the races? I didn't see it in the OP, sorry if I missed it. Unlikely I could make it being in the US, but you never know.


Jerome

Lobby will open at 5pm ET on Fridays for practice. Racing should get started before 6pm ET.

 

[Jump_Ace]

I live on the west coast, aw well.


Jerome

 

[DesertPenguin]

Yea, that's dinner time for me. Boooooo!

 

[CodeRedR51]

This looks good. Unfortunately it's too early in the day for me so I can't participate. Good luck guys!

 

[gedazz]

Sign me up!

GT Planet ID: gedazz
PSN: gedazz__
Nationality: Lithuania (using UK PSN account)
Team: Slow and Steady Racing
Number: 6
Primary Livery Sponsor: Thrustmaster
Secondary Livery Sponsor: None
Availability: Full Time

 

[AudiMan2011]

Sign me up!

GT Planet ID: gedazz
PSN: gedazz__
Nationality: Lithuania (using UK PSN account)
Team: Slow and Steady Racing
Number: 6
Primary Livery Sponsor: Thrustmaster
Secondary Livery Sponsor: None
Availability: Full Time

Good to have you back.

 

[Aachenboy]

I like to join.

GTPlanet ID: Woeschelter_Jong
PSN: Woeschelter_Jong
Nationality: German
Team: Hennes Racing Team
Number: 48
Primary Livery Sponsor: REWE
Secondary Livery Sponsor (up to 4 Races):
Availability (Full Time or Part Time): Part Time

Due to my ski week in February, I'm not able to join the Round of Germany on February, 21st. I hope to manage the Round of Belgium on March, 6th. When we're back home from Austria early, I'll be there!

I hope my livery is ok!

 

[AudiMan2011]

I like to join.

GTPlanet ID: Woeschelter_Jong
PSN: Woeschelter_Jong
Nationality: German
Team: Hennes Racing Team
Number: 48
Primary Livery Sponsor: REWE
Secondary Livery Sponsor (up to 4 Races):
Availability (Full Time or Part Time): Part Time

Due to my ski week in February, I'm not able to join the Round of Germany on February, 21st. I hope to manage the Round of Belgium on March, 6th. When we're back home from Austria early, I'll be there!

I hope my livery is ok!

Welcome aborad. Livery looks good.

 

[Justin bell]

GTPlanet ID:justin bell
PSN:road2fury
Nationality:Australia
Team:
Number:29
Primary Livery Sponsor:mobil 1
Secondary Livery Sponsor (up to 4 Races):
Availability (Full Time or Part Time):mosty fulltime

 

[NoirAntares]

Looking to go back to back.

GTPlanet ID: Antares26
PSN: CWM_NoirAntares
Nationality: Filipino
Team: Clockwork Motorsport
Number: 26
Primary Livery Sponsor: μ's
Secondary Livery Sponsor (up to 4 Races): N/A
Availability (Full Time or Part Time): Full Time

 

[AudiMan2011]

GTPlanet ID:justin bell
PSN:road2fury
Nationality:Australia
Team:
Number:29
Primary Livery Sponsor:mobil 1
Secondary Livery Sponsor (up to 4 Races):
Availability (Full Time or Part Time):mosty fulltime

Welcome to the series.

Looking to go back to back.

GTPlanet ID: Antares26
PSN: CWM_NoirAntares
Nationality: Filipino
Team: Clockwork Motorsport
Number: 26
Primary Livery Sponsor: μ's
Secondary Livery Sponsor (up to 4 Races): N/A
Availability (Full Time or Part Time): Full Time

Welcome back champ