PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Let me adjust suspension and diff!!!!

[Voodoovaj]

Voodoo

Maybe you could post a video showing specifically what the cars do that you want to change.
Like show a section with each.

Have you driven the GR3 Ferrari and Huracan? Grab a gear a moment too soon on a downshift and you are backward into the wall. The Renault is also notoriously difficult to drive in slow corners (may all corners ) which is why it is nearly non-existent in Sport Mode races.

Calster was flying in the Lambo in the last FIA race. It was tyre deg that ruined his race. If he can compete with it, why can't you?

I'm not quite sure how this became a thread about using excuses to lean on for lack of pace. Your comment on tyre degradation is where this thread should be going. The Ferrari and Huracan can absolutely be fast. In fact, my Huracan has the second most wins in my GR3 stable with 7, second to my BMW M6. But, yes, on tracks with tight corners, when tyre degradation is on, it can become unusable VERY early into the race.

THAT is the issue that I am trying to deal with.

As I have stated multiple times, I am looking for a fix for those cars to solve this grossly unbalancing issue. I would be ok with the continued lock out of tuning (which is likely anyway) if those cars (and the Renault) have their rear end issues addressed.

 

[Groundfish]

Have you driven the GR3 Ferrari and Huracan? Grab a gear a moment too soon on a downshift and you are backward into the wall. The Renault is also notoriously difficult to drive in slow corners (may all corners ) which is why it is nearly non-existent in Sport Mode races.

Rs01 used to be my favorite on seaside and brands until they added weight.
For me on wheel the Ferrari is very difficult and so is the Hurancan on Catalunya.
That’s why I don’t bother putting time into them, to be honest I am not a good enough driver to use those scalpels. They are very nervous and rotate too eagerly for my lack of skill.
Nice race last night. Fast room for me.

 

[AlanH49]

The best drivers will be within tenths whatever car they use. I’ve noticed leaderboards are dominanted by one or two cars at the beginning of a week. By the end the top drivers try different options and get such cars in the Top 10.

 

[TetsuKobura]

Tuning is a ‘part’ of the game but not sport mode which is how it should stay imo.

When they opened up tuning last year everyone just tuned the group 4 GTR and it was nothing but a one make race, same thing would happen again.

I find tuning unfair just down to the time someone has got to tune (yes I know how to tune). I appreciate someone with more time can put in more laps regardless of tuning, but I’d rather know that when I set a quali time that we have the same starting point.

GR3 is relatively decent on BOP, there was a lambo on the top ten for fia Catalunya race on Saturday and I know that lap was done with a controller. So it’s more than doable.

The Gr4 class at the start of the game was incredibly unbalanced. Most people don’t realize this.

It doesn’t even take any time at all to tune a car, when GTPlanet has a tuning forum with multiple tunes for nearly every car. At that point it boils down to laziness.

Gr3 with no tuning is a meta-tier class now, whereas any car can be competitive on any track with tuning.

Also when did FIA EVER allow tuning? Serious question because that’s news to me.

 

[Venster]

The Gr4 class at the start of the game was incredibly unbalanced. Most people don’t realize this.

It doesn’t even take any time at all to tune a car, when GTPlanet has a tuning forum with multiple tunes for nearly every car. At that point it boils down to laziness.

Gr3 with no tuning is a meta-tier class now, whereas any car can be competitive on any track with tuning.

Also when did FIA EVER allow tuning? Serious question because that’s news to me.

Yes it was, but it makes no difference even with tuning there will still be a meta car. Something will definitely tune that little bit better than something else, not all cars are the same. Just like irl racing not all cars can be tuned to be kind on tyres for example it’s in the DNA of the construction of the car.

Just because it doesn’t take someone long to do tuning doesn’t mean it doesn’t take someone else way longer. This whole thing thing is based on making the car better to suit someone’s ‘style’ of driving. So I go on GTP grab a tune and it doesn’t fit me, so I still have to spend hours tuning. Making a tune that fits everyone is completely contradictory to the whole thread.

The lambo, Ferrari, NSX etc are all competitive cars with the right driver. I admit that I probably wouldn’t pick those because of how difficult they are to drive, I don’t have the time or skill level to put in to be competitive in those cars and I accept that so pick something I’m more comfortable in. If you open up tuning then basically all cars have the time restriction to get it exactly how ‘I’ need it.

It’s not laziness either if I only get 20 laps to set a quali time and someone else gets 200, yes their time is likely to be better even with closed tuning but I’ve got a better chance of setting a good time with the same equipment than I have getting a perfect tune in 20 laps.

There has been at least 2 or 3 fia one make races in the last couple months that tuning was open. Example an Toyota 86 race at Fuji.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

There has been at least 2 or 3 fia one make races in the last couple months that tuning was open.

That in my opinion is not where tuning shines but rather as pointed out some cars the base tunes suck for driveability or to be competitive. Actually one of the best examples that I can use is when Sarthe was first introduced and doing offline custom races to practice the GR3 911 with BoP applied gearing was so bad you could not even stay in contact with AI on the straights using the slipstream as the top speed and accerleration was just not capable.

It was not the cars gearing was not set to be fast enough it was the motor did not have the torque to pull hard enough to gain the speed over the aero wind resistance

Actually lowering the gear ratio about a 1/2 point or so made the car capable of then being able to maintain on the straights with the other cars. No other changes made but now a car that nobody would have ever considered using on this track now was competitive . Not dominating faster just competitive.

This is the type of improvements I am looking to gain. I have played with some set ups that were prone to rear end easily coming around on acceleration out of tight slow corners and just a bit of spring weight adjustments to allow better weight transfer under acceleration made the issue much less. Again not changes that make a car meta or op just be a car that I may drive in a class that otherwise I would not use.

One make races is the last place where tuning should be allowed as far as being abused.

In the daily races which are not part of a series if you are not going to allow tuning then at least do the BoP tuning and settings for each track for each car. Just like my Sarthe example, just a slight final ratio gear adjustment made a car go from worthless and unusable on that circuit to a car that was competitive in its class.

Real world BoP is used in a race series where different circuit characteristics offset each other to not give a single car the advantage over the course of the entire race season and schedule. That is not the case in a on off race at a single circuit.

 

[Groundfish]

I’d support one ‘open class no bop’ race per week before tuning under bop.
Remove all restriction for say a gr3 race.
If you allow tuning under bop and one car becomes too fast they will just add weight reduce power so why?
Just add one ‘unrestricted’ weekly and let’s get it on!
Tune it, power it to max weight to min.
I’d totally support that.
Leave bop races locked.
Jmo
The more I think about this, I think it would be awesome.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I’d support one ‘open class no bop’ race per week before tuning under bop.
Remove all restriction for say a gr3 race.
If you allow tuning under bop and one car becomes too fast they will just add weight reduce power so why?
Just add one ‘unrestricted’ weekly and let’s get it on!
Tune it, power it to max weight to min.
I’d totally support that.
Leave bop races locked.
Jmo
The more I think about this, I think it would be awesome.

Tuning can be allowed with BoP without drastically altering the balance.

Just like in real life, Aero, ride height, power, weight are off limits, transmissions off limits, some final gear ratios allowed by some classes with limitations where allows,

Biggest is spring rates, toe in/out, castor/camber and anti roll bars along with shock dampening rates. None of these allowable adjustments are actual adjustments that greatly increase actual speed.

These adjustments change handling characteristics but what needs to be kept in mind that if you improve one thing such as braking stability you will hurt something else like turn in. So the end result is finding the best balance that suites the cars built in characteristics for a particular circuit. You may slow down the turn in for corners 1 and 2 by 1/10 each but increase the exit speed and acceleration on the hairpin at turn 5 by 4/10's which would gain you a net of 2/10's a lap positive gain.

then because you have a bit better corner exit as a result out of the last turn you are on the gas a bit quicker and gain another 3/10's on the straight. So you picked up 1/2 second just by tweaking the car, not meta but more competitive.

Keeping parts of tuning locked for BoP races would fit in to what is done in the real world and not cause a car to be OP. Many times the reason a car may be op in a class is because it has the best base tune by a lot compared to most of the other cars in the class.

 

[Venster]

That in my opinion is not where tuning shines but rather as pointed out some cars the base tunes suck for driveability or to be competitive. Actually one of the best examples that I can use is when Sarthe was first introduced and doing offline custom races to practice the GR3 911 with BoP applied gearing was so bad you could not even stay in contact with AI on the straights using the slipstream as the top speed and accerleration was just not capable.

It was not the cars gearing was not set to be fast enough it was the motor did not have the torque to pull hard enough to gain the speed over the aero wind resistance

Actually lowering the gear ratio about a 1/2 point or so made the car capable of then being able to maintain on the straights with the other cars. No other changes made but now a car that nobody would have ever considered using on this track now was competitive . Not dominating faster just competitive.

This is the type of improvements I am looking to gain. I have played with some set ups that were prone to rear end easily coming around on acceleration out of tight slow corners and just a bit of spring weight adjustments to allow better weight transfer under acceleration made the issue much less. Again not changes that make a car meta or op just be a car that I may drive in a class that otherwise I would not use.

One make races is the last place where tuning should be allowed as far as being abused.

In the daily races which are not part of a series if you are not going to allow tuning then at least do the BoP tuning and settings for each track for each car. Just like my Sarthe example, just a slight final ratio gear adjustment made a car go from worthless and unusable on that circuit to a car that was competitive in its class.

Real world BoP is used in a race series where different circuit characteristics offset each other to not give a single car the advantage over the course of the entire race season and schedule. That is not the case in a on off race at a single circuit.

I completely understand what you want to accomplish but I just don’t think it works as simply as that. Irl racing you have cars that are suited to certain tracks, other cars can tune to help that but are those cars suited to that track still dominant, usually yes. It would be the same in sport mode.

I really like the Ferrari, the nsx, the lambo and really want to drive them. Do I like that the fact that I don’t have the skill set to drive them competitively not really no. Tuning I agree can sort this but I can be competitive in another car, tuning potentially makes me uncompetitive in all cars because I don’t have the time.

Do I think tuning should be more active in the game? Yes I do, I don’t want tuning but plenty do, so a tuning race in a daily every other week or something caters to both which I think would be a fair and great addition, some people who are against it may end up really enjoying it.

I wouldn’t want it in fia races personally though.

 

[George Jakob]

i beliave that tuning should be allowed on daily races at least because daily races are there for all of us who own the game and want to compete with each other i hate it when my speed and driveability is nerfed i want to reach the most i can of this two no matter if i am good or not i want my car choise to be made based on what car i enjoy driving the most rather than being "forced" to choose the car i can drive decently and not make a **** out of myself and lets be honest perfect balance cannot be achived no matter what there will always be META cars and drivers.
By the way @Groundfish i find your idea disasterous for many ressons but i may be the only imo BOP is here and in real life for a resson.

 

[Groundfish]

I just think if you’re gonna allow it allow it all.
I love the rs01.
As heavy as it is though it just isn’t as good to drive. Doesn’t matter what you do with alignment or camber.
The setups excellent and super well balance and neutral.
It just ruins the fun of driving it with ballast imo.
I say go big or go home.
I think it would be a bloodbath but it would be a fun way to die.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I don't understand this mistaken belief that the Ferrari and Huracan merely need "skill". They don't simply "rotate" more, they slide on their rear tires like the rears are on ice. They chew up rear tires like they're eating them for fuel as well.

In the last sector at Catalunya, the Ferrari in particular, is a nightmare regardless of skill level. If it's a handful on new tires, what's going to happen after a lap or two?

The 4C and NSX by contrast are a little loose, but they are very usable cars and, given their fuel economy, they more than make up for any loss of pace because of tyre degradation. I've been consistently putting those cars on the podium. On the flip side, I won't even risk trying the Ferrari or Huracan.

 

[Venster]

I don't understand this mistaken belief that the Ferrari and Huracan merely need "skill". They don't simply "rotate" more, they slide on their rear tires like the rears are on ice. They chew up rear tires like they're eating them for fuel as well.

In the last sector at Catalunya, the Ferrari in particular, is a nightmare regardless of skill level. If it's a handful on new tires, what's going to happen after a lap or two?

The 4C and NSX by contrast are a little loose, but they are very usable cars and, given their fuel economy, they more than make up for any loss of pace because of tyre degradation. I've been consistently putting those cars on the podium. On the flip side, I won't even risk trying the Ferrari or Huracan.

Because it is just more skill to drive them so you don’t slide out, they are competitive they are just difficult to drive. They do eat up tyres but the skill comes in to still be able to drive them fast despite that.

A lambo is 4th currently in the fia with crazy high tyre wear settings this season so it can’t be that bad can it?

 

[Groundfish]

Controller and wheel input methods differ but both show that much skill is needed for certain cars.
Cars have different strengths and weaknesses.
A super responsive car requires more precise inputs.
Certain cars are faster in sections but weaker than others.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Because it is just more skill to drive them so you don’t slide out, they are competitive they are just difficult to drive. They do eat up tyres but the skill comes in to still be able to drive them fast despite that.

A lambo is 4th currently in the fia with crazy high tyre wear settings this season so it can’t be that bad can it?

Depends on what you call bad and whether you would rather race in regular daily sport mode races with racers that are using a car they can actually race without losing control maybe taking you out of the race.

The cars mentioned are cars that for a vast majority with stock tunes at full bore on the edge race pace for the driver is a car the chance of a losing control mistake is much higher and more amplified than many other cars in the class.

Personally there are certain cars that because of the way they behave with a stock tune I avoid and pick a car with better stability that offers a much higher percentage of not having a negative racing incident over the course of a race.

Many drivers will not make that distinction and drive the car anyway and then the people are whining because the guy crashed in front of them ruining their race.

Many of those twitchy hard to control cars with a few tweaks become much more predictable and fun to drive with a level of stability not found with the stock tune. Then those drivers may not be wrecking the car all the time.

So just because a few can figure out the car and do well with it if you race online in sport mode how the car does in the hands of the rest of the 99% of the racers will probably affect you more.

 

[fastone371]

Not everyone know how to, or wants to tune their car, so it creates an unfair advantage for the ones who do, just find a car that works well on that track. Not many people know much about cars anymore, that’s why they took the performance parts out of GT Sport and put in the simplified version of tuning.

And yet not everyone who plays this game drives or is old enough to drive. Do you not think that would be even a bigger disadvantage than allowing tuning? The adjustment figures PD uses are not real life figures so even someone with a couple of decades of real life race car tuning experience would not really have an advantage. Tunisia g is pretty much make an adjustment and decide if it's better or worse, anyone should be able to figure that out

 

[Groundfish]

You can’t get something for nothing.
Tuning is a series of trade offs.
So is car design.
You are talkin relatively lightweight mid engine relatively high powered rwd racecars.
Sure you could detune them and make them easier to drive by weakening their strong points.
Plus is it a surprise they eat tires for some when some run csa and low or zero tcs settings?

 

[devildog666]

So you should know that tuning broke gt5 and 6. Cambers? Reverse ride height? Flipped gearboxes to name a few. People will exploit what they can once tuning is open.

Tuning is not the answer. Better stock setups for some cars is what's needed.

The physics model for some mr cars were broken in those games. People did all that stuff to try and compensate.

 

[SmnSyz]

I see no wrong in hosting both fixed and variable tune races. It won’t be perfect, but then nothing is.

I love tuning and hope it becomes an option.

 

[rex1825]

I liked when we had open settings for LMP cars on La Sarthe... It was fun, a lot of fun...

I do agree some of the settings need to be opened, gearbox for example should be opened similar as Assetto Corsa has it, with pre set gear ratios and final gear ratio, suspension, aero and diff should be opened for setup...

 

[Voodoovaj]

Because it is just more skill to drive them so you don’t slide out, they are competitive they are just difficult to drive. They do eat up tyres but the skill comes in to still be able to drive them fast despite that.

A lambo is 4th currently in the fia with crazy high tyre wear settings this season so it can’t be that bad can it?

The Huracan is better than the Ferrari. The Huracan is manageable. The Ferrari drives like someone put the wrong tires on the rear end.

Put it this way. My qualifying time for Catalunya was 1:46:068 (911). My best lap in the Alfa was 146.4xx. My best lap in the Huracan was 1:46.7xx. My best lap in the NSX was 1:46.9xx. Yet, I can win with the Alfa and I can win with the NSX, but the Huracan drops through the pack like a rock. It's outright pace on a single lap does not correlate to outright pace in a full race on most tracks.

Having put a lot of time into the Huracan, I can say that it can be a fast car if there is no tire wear. As soon as tire wear becomes a factor, it's no longer on par. Sure, it takes "skill" to manage it, but it would also take "skill" to manage damage to the car. Yes, of course it takes "skill" to manage a broken car, but that doesn't make it acceptable for the car to be broken in the first place. I save the Ferrari for fast tracks without much change of direction, and where I don't care about my finishing position.

If either the Huracan or Ferrari were scalpel precise instruments that required skill to go fast, and the trade off was exceptional outright pace when on that knife edge, then I can see there being an argument for their base set up. However, they require skill to be on track and lapping at the same pace as the rest of the cars, and not even the better cars. There is no trade off. There is no upside.

If someone can demonstrate an upside to those cars, and their handling, I'm willing to hear it. As in, "this is the car to chose at this track"

 

[Veinz]

It takes skill to identify problems with a setup and address them through tuning as well.

 

[Voodoovaj]

It takes skill to identify problems with a setup and address them through tuning as well.

Here, skill requirement mitigated.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/board/gts-tuning.425/

I've been playing with the differential on cars. I am not seeing a huge change in lap times, only a change in driveability and consistency. This week, we have to deal with those curbs at Dragon Tail.

Yet again, the 911 is a great go to car because it's suspension keeps the car settled through the chicane. The Ferrari and Huracan can be fast there, but it you are microscopically off line, the suspension has you bouncing everywhere.


I'm interested in seeing some hard evidence that this would be a game changer. What kind of times can be achieved by tuning ONLY suspension and diff at Dragon Tail.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

It takes skill to identify problems with a setup and address them through tuning as well.

It takes skill to know what line to take on a track, it takes skill to learn how late and hard you can brake and it takes skill to apply the throttle as early and quickly as possible without spinning out.

So a new racer needs to learn skills to drive the car in this game at a competitive pace, if they are not fast enough they are told they need to "get gud".

What is the difference?

Learning to tune a car may be skills to learn but it is no different than a person needing to learn to drive fast while maintaining a car under control and on the track.

So should we exclude anything in the game that requires learning a skill? Just like driving and going fast some will do it better than others but maybe we should be using the strictly the B spec mode so no one has to learn to drive.

Just like driving tuning is just another part of racing that is included in the games physics and should be allowed to be used just like the rest of the game rather than be locked away.

 

[YoBuck]

Just because tuning is in game isn’t a reason to allow it in sport mode.
I know I couldn’t be bothered and would put me off playing.
Some (a lot) of people just like the pick up and play that’s GTS and don’t want to learn about tuning. Yes there are tunes available here but what % of players use these boards? So I don’t see that as an argument.
Using the hurricane and Ferrari as examples PD needs to adjust the bop on them, the answer is not to split the community into tuners and non tuners.

 

[George Jakob]

Just because tuning is in game isn’t a reason to allow it in sport mode.
I know I couldn’t be bothered and would put me off playing.
Some (a lot) of people just like the pick up and play that’s GTS and don’t want to learn about tuning. Yes there are tunes available here but what % of players use these boards? So I don’t see that as an argument.
Using the hurricane and Ferrari as examples PD needs to adjust the bop on them, the answer is not to split the community into tuners and non tuners.

The Community was always split since GT1 in fact.

 

[YoBuck]

That’s obtuse. You know what I was saying.

 

[George Jakob]

That’s obtuse. You know what I was saying.

Yes i know but what you have to understand is tuning was one of the things that made GT what it is today and about that "Split" you talked about since GT went online with GT5 Prologue there were faster and slower tuners and non-tuners did that stop me for playing GT5-GT6 ? no i just played in a lower level than some others in fact the need to became faster was what forced me to do a PSN account and join GTP further more tuning is a showcase of skill since GT sport "splits" players according to thair speed and sportsmanchip on the track why not tuning? at the end the slower and less skilled will remain that way as it should naturaly it will still be pick and play with the added benefits of the skillful players showing thair full speed and the less skillful potencialy learning one of the most important things in racing.

 

[YoBuck]

Look at the state of the matching system sometimes. I don’t think essentially creating 2 sport modes will help this at all

 

[George Jakob]

Look at the state of the matching system sometimes. I don’t think essentially creating 2 sport modes will help this at all

What?? there is no need for a second sport just allow players to adjust the car however they want besides BOP like i don't know.... real racing that GT claims it simulates for 20 years now? there is no resson to create equality that can't realisticlly exist.