Political Correctness

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The high seas of political correctness can be difficult to navigate these days, even for such venerable media giants as the New York Times. Yesterday they published a cartoon short that shows Donald Trump in a gay relationship with Vladimir Putin. They hold hands, ride a pony together, do a little nipple twisting, kiss, and a closeup of some tonsil hockey. Now obviously, especially since the series of shorts are entitled "Trump Bites" this is an attempt at mockery of the Leader of the Free World. Being gay is bad right otherwise why use it to mock the President? After all, they only way these "jokes" work is if being gay is a punchline. Trump is submitting to a gay relationship with another man and that's funny because it's gay. That's the only way it works IMO. Their intent was to shame and embarrass a man by projecting him as being in a submissive, gay relationship.

But being gay isn't bad is it? It shouldn't be the subject of mockery and ridicule should it? I've known this since I watched an episode of All in the Family when Archie found out his gay, macho football player friend Steve was gay but apparently, 47 years later, the NY Times hasn't figure out that being gay is ok and it's not a tool in the arsenal to shame and ridicule people. Perhaps this goes beyond an issue of political correctness and ventures into outright homophobia on the part of the NY Times.

 
Johnnypenso
The high seas of political correctness can be difficult to navigate these days, even for such venerable media giants as the New York Times. Yesterday they published a cartoon short that shows Donald Trump in a gay relationship with Vladimir Putin. They hold hands, ride a pony together, do a little nipple twisting, kiss, and a closeup of some tonsil hockey. Now obviously, especially since the series of shorts are entitled "Trump Bites" this is an attempt at mockery of the Leader of the Free World. Being gay is bad right otherwise why use it to mock the President? After all, they only way these "jokes" work is if being gay is a punchline. Trump is submitting to a gay relationship with another man and that's funny because it's gay. That's the only way it works IMO. Their intent was to shame and embarrass a man by projecting him as being in a submissive, gay relationship.

But being gay isn't bad is it? It shouldn't be the subject of mockery and ridicule should it? I've known this since I watched an episode of All in the Family when Archie found out his gay, macho football player friend Steve was gay but apparently, 47 years later, the NY Times hasn't figure out that being gay is ok and it's not a tool in the arsenal to shame and ridicule people. Perhaps this goes beyond an issue of political correctness and ventures into outright homophobia on the part of the NY Times.

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:lol:
 
Johnnypenso
Being gay is bad right otherwise why use it to mock the President? After all, they only way these "jokes" work is if being gay is a punchline. Trump is submitting to a gay relationship with another man and that's funny because it's gay. That's the only way it works IMO. Their intent was to shame and embarrass a man by projecting him as being in a submissive, gay relationship.
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If that's the joke, it's a bad one.
Could it not be a joke about anything else?

Imagine Theresa May in place of the Trump character and Trump in the place of the Putin character. Would that not work? Why is it only funny if it's gay?
 
Conformation
If that's the joke, it's a bad one.
Could it not be a joke about anything else?
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It's clearly a farcical extension of the apparent infatuation Trump has for Putin, and the two of them are of the same gender so yeah, I suppose it does allude to homosexuality, but it in no way presents that as a bad thing.

Also, TIL self-inflicted nipple tweaking is homosexual behavior--

Actually...yeah, that checks out; if the person administering an action of a sexual nature for gratification and the recipient of said action are the same person, it could be considered homosexual...just not in the way we tend to think of it.
 
TexRex
Actually...yeah, that checks out; if the person administering an action of a sexual nature for gratification and the recipient of said action are the same person, it could be considered homosexual...just not in the way we tend to think of it.
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I think it's called autosexual... kind of appropriate for a car racing game forum.
 
Conformation
If that's the joke, it's a bad one.
Could it not be a joke about anything else?

Imagine Theresa May in place of the Trump character and Trump in the place of the Putin character. Would that not work? Why is it only funny if it's gay?
Click to expand...
It only works to ridicule or mock Trump if being gay isn't normal. If being gay is normal than the video is entirely meaningless. Another way to look at it might be to look at the alternatives. They could have chosen to show them as brofisting Buddies hunting together and fishing together, nodding and agreeing with each others statements Etc. Instead they chose to make fun of them in a gay relationship. But there's no mockery and no joke if the way they portray the two of them is perfectly normal. The premise behind the joke must therefore be that there's something wrong with being gay and it is the subject of mockery and ridicule to be gay otherwise the joke simply doesn't work.
 
SagarisGTB
Liberals don't stand with minorities when they aren't being given a fair shake?
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"A fair shake" in this case would be gender discrimination. So no, that's not part of liberalism - and asking that trans people be given special treatment that perverts the natural cut and thrust of an entertainment industry actually demeans trans people.
SagarisGTB
Regardless, I'm not inclined to engage in a semantic argument about what exactly "Liberalism" is. What I was referencing, which I illustrated by stating "those with more liberal outlooks", was people who are perceived by @Johnnypenso to be to the left of himself on the political spectrum. You can substitute that quote for "lefties", "leftists", "SJWs", "centrists" or something else.
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I think that your confusion about what constitutes liberalism is still tripping you up. There are people more liberal than the "liberals" on this forum that he's never mocked in that way. Sure, I'd rather @Johnnypenso not use those terms as slights, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're often used by him in contexts where hypocrisy is on display - like in this case.
SagarisGTB
And negative feedback isn't bullying.
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I'm reckoning that people have a very strong sense of the weapons they wield on the net. To downgrade it to "negative feedback" is, I suspect, wilful ignorance of the high stakes and realities of the power balance.
 
Johnnypenso
It only works to ridicule or mock Trump if being gay isn't normal. If being gay is normal than the video is entirely meaningless. Another way to look at it might be to look at the alternatives. They could have chosen to show them as brofisting Buddies hunting together and fishing together, nodding and agreeing with each others statements Etc. Instead they chose to make fun of them in a gay relationship. But there's no mockery and no joke if the way they portray the two of them is perfectly normal. The premise behind the joke must therefore be that there's something wrong with being gay and it is the subject of mockery and ridicule to be gay otherwise the joke simply doesn't work.
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I think May loving Trump in a similar video would work just the same.
 
LeMansAid
"A fair shake" in this case would be gender discrimination. So no, that's not part of liberalism - and asking that trans people be given special treatment that perverts the natural cut and thrust of an entertainment industry actually demeans trans people.

I think that your confusion about what constitutes liberalism is still tripping you up. There are people more liberal than the "liberals" on this forum that he's never mocked in that way. Sure, I'd rather @Johnnypenso not use those terms as slights, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're often used by him in contexts where hypocrisy is on display - like in this case.

I'm reckoning that people have a very strong sense of the weapons they wield on the net. To downgrade it to "negative feedback" is, I suspect, wilful ignorance of the high stakes and realities of the power balance.
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I have to make a correction here. I think I've been pretty clear in not using the generic term of "liberal" as a slight at least in the last couple of years. If I used it before that it was laziness on my part. I know in American politics it's routinely conflated with left wing ideology but I've been careful not to conflate the two. I might have slipped up once or twice but this has come up before and I posted this in the past in response:

Johnnypenso
"Liberal" is probably the most misunderstood and misused word in the American media. I think if more people understood what it actually meant, in the classic sense, they'd realize they identify with liberal principles much more than they disagree with them.
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Johnnypenso
It only works to ridicule or mock Trump if being gay isn't normal. If being gay is normal than the video is entirely meaningless. Another way to look at it might be to look at the alternatives. They could have chosen to show them as brofisting Buddies hunting together and fishing together, nodding and agreeing with each others statements Etc. Instead they chose to make fun of them in a gay relationship. But there's no mockery and no joke if the way they portray the two of them is perfectly normal. The premise behind the joke must therefore be that there's something wrong with being gay and it is the subject of mockery and ridicule to be gay otherwise the joke simply doesn't work.
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:lol:
 
Conformation
I think May loving Trump in a similar video would work just the same.
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I don't think so and here's why. It is a notion put forth by the patriarchy in our male-dominated society that a man and a woman who have a close relationship must somehow also be having sex or at least be physically attracted. Women throughout the ages have been subject to judgment and shame for this while men are typically hailed as studs or manly men if you will. In the modern era it is understood that just because a man and a woman have a close relationship it does not mean that is sexual and to infer that it must be sexual or somehow that is sexual and therefore something to mock or ridicule would be sexist and misogynist by definition.
 
Johnnypenso
I don't think so and here's why. It is a notion put forth by the patriarchy in our male-dominated society that a man and a woman who have a close relationship must somehow also be having sex or at least be physically attracted. Women throughout the ages have been subject to judgment and shame for this while men are typically hailed as studs or manly men if you will. In the modern era it is understood that just because a man and a woman have a close relationship it does not mean that is sexual and to infer that it must be sexual or somehow that is sexual and therefore something to mock or ridicule would be sexist and misogynist by definition.
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Maybe it's a cultural difference because of where we're from? I'm not sure. I just didn't see it the same way as you.
 
Johnnypenso
But being gay isn't bad is it? It shouldn't be the subject of mockery and ridicule should it? I've known this since I watched an episode of All in the Family when Archie found out his gay, macho football player friend Steve was gay but apparently, 47 years later, the NY Times hasn't figure out that being gay is ok and it's not a tool in the arsenal to shame and ridicule people. Perhaps this goes beyond an issue of political correctness and ventures into outright homophobia on the part of the NY Times.
Click to expand...

I don't see that as the joke at all - it's about a ridiculous adolescent crush held by a dysfunctional (slightly psychotic) manchild on someone who's portrayed as far more evil, predatory and nefarious than the manchild could possibly believe. Also, I loved the "Unicorns over Rainbows" reference to Spicer's new book :D

Is the biggest thing about this for you that they're the same sex? Did you think that it was somehow being mocked or is that faux-outrage in an attempt to re-align the s******ing audience to an undoubtedly SJW anti-homophobia cause? I can't believe that many people will see the same-sex-ness of the crush as the important bit.
 
TenEightyOne
Also, I loved the "Unicorns over Rainbows" reference to Spicer's new book :D
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Wait...what?

*Googles "spicer unicorns"*

laughslap.gif


And I thought the cartoon was hilarious without being privy to that reference.
 
TenEightyOne
I don't see that as the joke at all - it's about a ridiculous adolescent crush held by a dysfunctional (slightly psychotic) manchild on someone who's portrayed as far more evil, predatory and nefarious than the manchild could possibly believe. Also, I loved the "Unicorns over Rainbows" reference to Spicer's new book :D

Is the biggest thing about this for you that they're the same sex? Did you think that it was somehow being mocked or is that faux-outrage in an attempt to re-align the s******ing audience to an undoubtedly SJW anti-homophobia cause? I can't believe that many people will see the same-sex-ness of the crush as the important bit.
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Then why portray them as gay???
 
Conformation
You mean why not pretend one of them is a woman? They're not.

Edit: Maybe I didn't get the joke but I thought the fact that they were both male was incidental and not the substance of the thing.
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Y"all must be blind if that video doesn't come off as gay. The hearts when they are looking eye to eye. Come on man...
 
I'm in agreement with @Polysmut in that it doesn't make a difference what genders are involved. For me, the joke is that the leader of America is in love with the leader of Russia. It's just as funny if one or both of them are female. Gayness isn't a joke, and if you think it might be then I'd suggest you examine your own views rather than those of the NYT, since it seems painfully obvious to me that they're making fun of a head of state's relationship with the head of state of a supposedly belligerent enemy country, rather than a man's relationship with another man. I could be wrong; I'm not the cartoonist, but I think the difference is whether you see the characters in the video as gay first and leaders second or leaders first and gay second.
 
ryzno
I wouldn't put it past y'all to think Trump worships Putin...
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Wasn't that the joke? (whether it's true or not being just as irrelevant to the humour (if you find it humorous at all that is) as the sex of the characters portrayed)

Joke X: The most powerful leader (A) in our culture is kowtowing so much to another powerful leader (B) that we'll draw A as an adolescent with a crush who wants to be intimate with B.

Joke Y: 2 men kissing is something we'll mock.

I can see the point in making joke X but not in making joke Y. If anyone thought the video in question was an example of joke Y then I'm surprised.
I'm not saying it's not gay, I'm just astonished that the fact that it's gay would be a big deal to anybody here.

Once again, imagine Theresa May as leader A and Donald Trump as leader B. It's the same joke and works equally well or equally badly.
Unless you really think 2 men kissing is the joke. In 2018.
 
LeMansAid
"A fair shake" in this case would be gender discrimination. So no, that's not part of liberalism - and asking that trans people be given special treatment that perverts the natural cut and thrust of an entertainment industry actually demeans trans people.
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Not at all. You can't consider the possibility that gender discrimination is currently occurring against trans actors and that the criticism is voicing that? (hint: it is voicing just that) Is it a stretch for you to believe that trans actors are discriminated against? (hint: many people are uncomfortable with trans people and/or claim that trans individuals are mentally ill) As there is no reason to believe that trans actors are naturally worse than cis gender actors at acting, why are there so few castings of trans actors in major trans roles and almost no (if not none) castings of trans gender actors in cis gender roles of any kind? What you tout as special treatment, might just be fair treatment. If the natural cut and thrust of the industry is transphobic, it's already demeaning trans people.

And regardless, the comment that Johanssson released prompted the major backlash. Without that, I'm not sure there would have been enough voices to push her into dropping out of the project.
 
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Conformation
Wasn't that the joke? (whether it's true or not being just as irrelevant to the humour (if you find it humorous at all that is) as the sex of the characters portrayed)

Joke X: The most powerful leader (A) in our culture is kowtowing so much to another powerful leader (B) that we'll draw A as an adolescent with a crush who wants to be intimate with B.

Joke Y: 2 men kissing is something we'll mock.

I can see the point in making joke X but not in making joke Y. If anyone thought the video in question was an example of joke Y then I'm surprised.
I'm not saying it's not gay, I'm just astonished that the fact that it's gay would be a big deal to anybody here.

Once again, imagine Theresa May as leader A and Donald Trump as leader B. It's the same joke and works equally well or equally badly.
Unless you really think 2 men kissing is the joke. In 2018.
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No I don't think it's an issue. I look at it as a video that makes Trump look like Putins little 🤬. It's funny don't get me wrong, but it feels gayish(to me). But I honestly don't like it cause obviously I do still kinda like Trump. But he is making it VERY hard for himself...
*God help me with the quotes I'm about to receive on that.
 
ryzno
No I don't think it's an issue. I look at it as a video that makes Trump look like Putins little 🤬. It's funny don't get me wrong, but it feels gayish(to me). But I honestly don't like it cause obviously I do still kinda like Trump. But he is making it VERY hard for himself...
*God help me with the quotes I'm about to receive on that.
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It's not gayish, it's gay. But that's not something worth noticing and isn't the joke (I think). Most of your post suggests that you agree.
 
Conformation
Wasn't that the joke? (whether it's true or not being just as irrelevant to the humour (if you find it humorous at all that is) as the sex of the characters portrayed)

Joke X: The most powerful leader (A) in our culture is kowtowing so much to another powerful leader (B) that we'll draw A as an adolescent with a crush who wants to be intimate with B.

Joke Y: 2 men kissing is something we'll mock.

I can see the point in making joke X but not in making joke Y. If anyone thought the video in question was an example of joke Y then I'm surprised.
I'm not saying it's not gay, I'm just astonished that the fact that it's gay would be a big deal to anybody here.

Once again, imagine Theresa May as leader A and Donald Trump as leader B. It's the same joke and works equally well or equally badly.
Unless you really think 2 men kissing is the joke. In 2018.
Click to expand...
There are dozens of ways to mock a friendship that don't involve two men being gay. The fact that they chose to make them gay, therefore makes being gay an integral part of the joke. If gay is just incidental then why go down that road at all? If they want to mock them as being too close and too buddy buddy there are plenty of ways to do that without making them gay. It's inescapable logic that being gay is an integral part of the joke and and it somehow makes it more funny that they are gay instead of bro-fisting frat boys or any other of the myriad of things they could have chosen instead.

This is not new. The whole Trump/Putin/Gay punchline has been going on for a while. SNL got in on the fun:


Stephen Colbert famously said the only thing Trump's "mouth is good for is being Vladimir Putin's 🤬 holster." Bette Midler said last month about the then upcoming summit, "Trump and Putin are meeting in Finland next month. That's a long way to travel for a 🤬, but hey - Putin's got the money." Chelsea Handler tweeted that, “Jeff Sessions is definitely a bottom,” of course meaning that being a bottom is a position of weakness. Jimmy Kimmel made a joke about Sean Hannity's lips on Trumps behind...and on and on and on.

There is an obvious pattern here that mockery of being gay and homosexuality as a punchline is ok if you're on the left. Or at least they think it's ok because the blowback from the LGBT community has largely been ignored. Certainly this type of humour would never fly on the other side of the aisle and would be roundly condemned. This most recent incident just continues in the same pattern.
 

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