Poll: Do you think the SR/Penalty system should be reformed?

[Spade13]

I think the SR/penalty system has flaws. I think most people would agree that the SR/penalty system has flaws. However right now I see a lot of people either trying to justify the system, or choosing not to complain and instead encouraging people to adapt to it. I think that's the wrong approach! Right now, as evident by recent updates and announcements, Polyphony is listening to the community, and are making changes to the game according to the community's needs or wants. If you think the SR/Penalty system has a problem, then why try to justify it or encourage people to adapt to it? Why not start voicing our concerns so that Polyphony finally reforms it?

I'm hoping that by creating this poll, we'll get a clear picture as to where the community stands on the SR/Penalty system. If enough people voice their concerns, I'm hoping that Polyphony will finally attend to and update the SR/Penalty system.

Feel free to post any specific complaints you have about the system right now. Thank you!

 

[racingchamp30]

From what i have seen on different topics here on GT Planet, that the newest update put in a yellow flag system that penalizes the driver for passing while the cars are ghosted but won't slow down the entire field. If PD wants to keep the yellow flag penalty system to remain, then it should be fixed where the whole field has to slow down, not just the individual not involved in the crash. Any driver that is not involved in the crash should not be receiving a penalty.

 

[vonMarshall]

Simply there are too few consequences for punting people off from behind and too much of a consequence for being hit.

On the road it is 100% the trailing cars fault, even if the car ahead is a bit of a plonker. It is not far off this on the track too.

At the moment if seems to be 60-70% the driver in front who is getting a time penalty for being hit and an SR hit and the hitter from behind stays on the track and even seems to get away with the time and SR penalty more often.

The reality is that the person behind has the view and the steering to best avoid a collision and the car in front has little chance.

The claims that it is realistic do not stack up. If it was realistic there would be cars written off and red flags in every race I have seen!

Whether the answer is more ghosting, harsher penalties for the shunter, or a more clever algo, I don’t know, but from my point of view it is really getting quite annoying and I am playing less often already.

 

[Jamie Bbbbb]

Where is the option, "No, I understand that not everything can be perfect"

 

[stevenhiggster]

Where is the option, "No, I understand that not everything can be perfect"

He didn't say it had to be perfect, just that it needs a lot of improvement and soon.

 

[racingchamp30]

No not perfect, just improve the system. Does not make sense too penalize one driver that is not involved in the crash but the rest of the field is left alone.

 

[Seikenfreak]

Cant say I have much of an opinion on this. Except for the Yellow Flag issue.

My SR has been S for a long time and hasn't gone down. I don't usually get into major incidents. I do have at least one SR down indicator per race, most often because I barely grazed a persons rear bumper on a straight or corner or something. Doesn't cause a problem, game just sees the touch and SR down. But again, even getting a couple SR downs in a race hasn't hindered my rating. You have to have some major crashes for it to affect it that much it seems.

There are very rare dumb time penalties I'll get for going off track I guess? Like I was doing qualifying, I ran off the track, slowly drove back through the sand, the game then resets me back on track because it was taking too long.. and then I get a time penalty as well? lol I already lost like 15 seconds flying off the track and crashing.. Obviously didn't hit anyone because it was empty qualifying. So that just seems silly.

I think people just need to get better at driving. Don't make stupid passing maneuvers. Avoid incidents. If someone is driving like an idiot, avoid them. Let them pass or wait for them to screw up so you can pass safely. Winning isn't super important. Over time, if you are as good as you think you are, you'll work your way out of those horrible bumper car tiers. And finally, understand that everyone makes mistakes, even the people you see in the top 10 rankings. Don't flip out on everyone that goes near you. It's just a game. Apologize or brush it off. Laugh about it together.

 

[Darwock]

I'm not sure I agree about the local yellow flags. That gives us a more genuine racing experience. There are many random factors in a race, and yellow flags are one of them. Reliability is another - be thankful our engines don't explode on lap 29 of 30!

 

[Huzar]

Will it even be possible ?

Cant change people, not sure how you can force them to be civil and smart in a videogame.

Maybe in the future we can have IBm's watson as a legit steward in races.

 

[stevenhiggster]

Tbh the penalty system is better than that of PC2 by far and less aggressive than AC. So while it may not be perfect, it isn't the worst out there.
It definitely needs a lot of bugs ironing out, particularly around the yellow flag issues. And all too often people are getting away with deliberate ramming whilst genuinely accidental bumps are getting harshly penalised.

 

[ASH32]

There needs to be a proper report system that sees intentional rammers banned for periods of time if they want to be a proper esport. If some of what I've seen and experienced happened in real racing people would be getting life bans, in GT Sport they might not even get a penalty.

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

Really stupid poll with biased wording on the choices.

Don’t bother posting a poll if you just want to affirm your pre-existing belief.

Waste of time thread. GP2 thread.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yes is the obvious answer to me because anything other than yes would mean they've given up trying to make the system better. I think it can be better but it needs a concerted effort and some trial and error. They are have no trouble making significant changes to the BoP and the physics so I don't see why they can't do some major experimenting with the penalty algorithms at the same time. We all know what the major issues are and IMO if they hope to be a class leader when it comes to eSports in sim racing, this is something they should be working on.

 

[Sean Renon]

SR needs a serious rework, I qualify p6 in a lobby full of SR S and a bonehead dives up the inside of 2 people on the first lap of a 10 lap race, causes a wreck, then refuses to back out of a horrible line going into the chicane on dragons tail and causes another horrible wreck. After the dust settles I'm p18.

How is that SR S

 

[Sean Renon]

Also, after going from SR S to SR B in one race at blue moon, can SR be reworked to allow bump drafting.
I don't normally do it, but when I was in p2, p3 made a mistake so the leader and I had a chance to pull away and did so by bump drafting.

I didn't wreck anyone, just bumped him 3 times a lap lol.

 

[gmaki]

Jesus Christ, life isn't fair, real racing isn't always fair. Grow up and deal with it already.

You left out the choice: "There are flaws but I am sure they are being dealt with, and that the system will keep improving"

Guess what? if someone plows into you from behind in real life you get penalized too.

 

[zzz_pt]

Tbh the penalty system is better than that of PC2 by far.

How so?

 

[oik01]

The system works ... I just got to Sr by emphas zing safety but am still agressive enough when I see I can drive faster than the guy infront. ..

The evidence that it works is that when I'm matched with Sr or A ranked people the race is a lot cleaner. That means the system has successfully managed to select the clean racers into that group. Lower groups have dirtier racing. I think evertone will agree that they have noticed cleaner raves on the higher groups so that means the system is differentiating drivers well. I get Sr negatives because of being bumped from behind too ... but if you otherwise drive a clean race, don't block faster drivers, you will notice your SR go up despite the bumps from behind

 

[Loopdreams]

There needs to be a proper report system that sees intentional rammers banned for periods of time if they want to be a proper esport. If some of what I've seen and experienced happened in real racing people would be getting life bans, in GT Sport they might not even get a penalty.

The problem is that you're asking for a system that can somehow divine people's intentions. How's that supposed to work? It's difficult enough in real life with a room full of people making a decision. And comparing it to real life racing where cars are expensive and the humans driving them are fragile is at least slightly absurd, there is literally nothing on the line here.

Also has nobody considered that if they started only giving penalties to people who "intentionally" ram others then cheats would just be brake checking everywhere instead.

The system is far from perfect but also I have heard scant few suggestions about how it could realistically be much improved. iRacing have been at this for years and from what I can tell haven't come up with anything all that much better. It's just a slightly tighter community with more real enthusiasts so standards tend to be higher, but that's got nothing to do with the system.

 

[mirial]

I don't think the onus should always be on the driver behind to avoid collisions because that doesn't encourage the driver in front to drive acceptably either. Many bumps are often 50/50 as result of the driver in front driving erratically and the driver behind taking their opportunity so maybe the penalty needs to be apportioned to both in cases like that.

I'm sure this would be tech dependent and might be too complex to implement for it to work in real time, but the degree of the penalty for both could be judged by how much each has gone outside their average speed for that given corner, so for example the more you slow beyond your given personal average and someone behind hits you who has also slowed beyond their average (to take avoiding action) then the driver in front receives the whole, or harsher penalty. I think this would work for all the other scenarios as well, and the penalty system could make allowances for groups of cars running together so that the penalty bias sways towards those following.

 

[ASH32]

The problem is that you're asking for a system that can somehow divine people's intentions. How's that supposed to work? It's difficult enough in real life with a room full of people making a decision. And comparing it to real life racing where cars are expensive and the humans driving them are fragile is at least slightly absurd, there is literally nothing on the line here.

Also has nobody considered that if they started only giving penalties to people who "intentionally" ram others then cheats would just be brake checking everywhere instead.

The system is far from perfect but also I have heard scant few suggestions about how it could realistically be much improved. iRacing have been at this for years and from what I can tell haven't come up with anything all that much better. It's just a slightly tighter community with more real enthusiasts so standards tend to be higher, but that's got nothing to do with the system.

I'm on about the serious instances where people are taking others out of purpose for what they see as revenge or just because they think it's funny, you know the ones that don't even break for a corner, with video evidence these cases are clear cut. A time penalty and safety rating drop is not enough punishment for these guys at all, since they often just quit after causing their chaos.

Not only do these guys get away with it they actually get rewarded for their behaviour, since their safety rating drops they then get matched with lower safety rated drivers, who are often slower, so then they'll have a shot at winning some races on their way back up too.

 

[kitchenboy]

Cant say I have much of an opinion on this. Except for the Yellow Flag issue.

My SR has been S for a long time and hasn't gone down. I don't usually get into major incidents. I do have at least one SR down indicator per race, most often because I barely grazed a persons rear bumper on a straight or corner or something. Doesn't cause a problem, game just sees the touch and SR down. But again, even getting a couple SR downs in a race hasn't hindered my rating. You have to have some major crashes for it to affect it that much it seems.

There are very rare dumb time penalties I'll get for going off track I guess? Like I was doing qualifying, I ran off the track, slowly drove back through the sand, the game then resets me back on track because it was taking too long.. and then I get a time penalty as well? lol I already lost like 15 seconds flying off the track and crashing.. Obviously didn't hit anyone because it was empty qualifying. So that just seems silly.

I think people just need to get better at driving. Don't make stupid passing maneuvers. Avoid incidents. If someone is driving like an idiot, avoid them. Let them pass or wait for them to screw up so you can pass safely. Winning isn't super important. Over time, if you are as good as you think you are, you'll work your way out of those horrible bumper car tiers. And finally, understand that everyone makes mistakes, even the people you see in the top 10 rankings. Don't flip out on everyone that goes near you. It's just a game. Apologize or brush it off. Laugh about it together.

I think the key phrase here is 'if you are as good as you think you are' constantly winning against the AI is scant preparation for a proper online experience, it has certainly been a wake up call for me....I'm certainly not as good as i thought i was but I'm getting better

 

[stevenhiggster]

How so?

You get penalties for putting two wheels off track, but it's not even consistent, sometimes you will sometimes you won't. Also it just comes up telling you to slow down. Doesn't say how slow or for how long!

 

[GTWelsh]

I think there needs to be another poll option of "Just needs tweaking". Because for me it's okay, needs tweaking a lot over time to get it right, it's not awful, but it's not great either.

 

[baldgye]

I don't see your poll being all that helpful, to be honest.
I think that the SR and DR system are working actually pretty well. I can join a race, with random people and usually make it past turn one. I've also been able to have, on a number of occasions some really fantastic wheel to wheel races. Something unthinkable in most public lobbies in almost any other online racing game.

Yeah the system isn't perfect and it has issues, for example; the placing of blame and the dolling out appropriate punishments. The yellow flag glitches are also something that need fixing as well as the ghosting system.


I agree that this thread is better than the hundreds of threads with users crying injustice for X and Y, but I think you could have constructed a poll that would have yielded more useful information than just; It's great! or It's awful!

 

[elderflower]

...for example; the placing of blame and the dolling out appropriate punishments. The yellow flag glitches are also something that need fixing as well as the ghosting system.

That's pretty much the whole system then

 

[baldgye]

That's pretty much the whole system then

Not really... I'm at SR S now, and it wasn't really that difficult to attain at all.
Despite all the problems with the system, if you drove cleanly and intelligently you could avoid getting into the types of problems that exist with the SR system and have more enjoyable races with cleaner (on average) drivers.

That said, the FIA series of races are something I've avoided like the plague because one session (not even a full race as I quit half way through), tanked my SR 3 ranks. That was all just down to hard racing and other people crashing/spinning out and collecting me. I could have been smarter in the race and avoided people and been more careful but then so could others.. and that's why the system exists in the first place.


You also cut an important point I made at the start of my post out, since my SR has increased, the racing has gotten better (irrespective of DR), it's cleaner and I've been able to have more wheel to wheel battles.

 

[Dylle1978]

Yes, the placing of blame i know its difficult, but there must be a way to "teach" the algorithm, that if a car is going sideways, with screeching tires and they take someone off track it's probably their fault. e.g.
Here i got SR penalty, 10 sec Penalty, and he didn't get anything. And that's where i think it doesn't work. But several of you are right there is BIG differents between SR C and SR A for example...

 

[oik01]

I don't think the onus should always be on the driver behind to avoid collisions because that doesn't encourage the driver in front to drive acceptably either. Many bumps are often 50/50 as result of the driver in front driving erratically and the driver behind taking their opportunity so maybe the penalty needs to be apportioned to both in cases like that.

I'm sure this would be tech dependent and might be too complex to implement for it to work in real time, but the degree of the penalty for both could be judged by how much each has gone outside their average speed for that given corner, so for example the more you slow beyond your given personal average and someone behind hits you who has also slowed beyond their average (to take avoiding action) then the driver in front receives the whole, or harsher penalty. I think this would work for all the other scenarios as well, and the penalty system could make allowances for groups of cars running together so that the penalty bias sways towards those following.

Slowing down ( so long as it's not sudden ) when in front dosent make it your fault.... a defensive driving line is often slower but perfectly legal. ..

 

[Phoenixsui]

Why only the extreme answers?
I voted no because most of situations i think it works.
It may need some more balance. Harder Penaltys for bumping someone off Track by taking the Inside and pushing someone out at the Corner Exit.
I almost never find a Situation where the Penalty System works wrong. I am in the B / S Ranks.
If something is annoying it is more the Track or Event Setup than the Penalty System.
It is simply not possible to do a FIA Race on Tokyo Highway or Speedways without 75% of the vehicles losing SR Rating even in S Ranks. To much Lags. I also got smashed into the wall as if the dude beside me hit me frontal in the side. Truth is he lost a bit of grip at the Exit of a Corner and lag made it to a Hammer. Instead of the soft sidetouch it would have been. And on the Speedways you are to fast and close for bad connections.