[POLL] United States Presidential Elections 2016

[mustafur]

I bet if you took out all the billionaires from America the average income would be bumped down to less then 20k.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

Oh look Norway is higher.

and @Sanji Himura Denmarks Average income is $51,424 USD hardly that much lower.

To make this fair we can average out all the income from all the 5 Nordic countries if you want?

USA: $55,904
Nordics: $53,976

Damn look how poor they are.

(keep in mind this is going by the chart that favors America best, if we use the united nations one USA gets decimated).

 

[squadops]

Why would anyone want to do that? The income would end up going quite a bit lower I would bet.

 

[mustafur]

Why would anyone want to do that? The income would end up going quite a bit lower I would bet.

The idea being that Americas average income is being completely bumped up from those at the top where as the bottom 50% are making less then basically every Modern nation(47% don't even pay income tax gives that away).

 

[squadops]

I understand that part, my point is lets not go doing that. If anything what we need to do is untie ourselves from crooked crony lobbies and hippie regulations. They are both holding us down, if I don't catch it coming than I'm gonna get it going away. One way or another there are too many hands out.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I understand that part, my point is lets not go doing that. If anything what we need to do is untie ourselves from crooked crony lobbies and hippie regulations. They are both holding us down, if I don't catch it coming than I'm gonna get it going away. One way or another there are too many hands out.

...What? Crony lobbies and Hippie Regulations?

 

[squadops]

...What? Crony lobbies and Hippie Regulations?

Yes, the two basic elements that go against a free economy. Lobbies make it all but impossible to conduct business and if you do manage to make something of yourself the hippies will want to take it away.

 

[mustafur]

Nixon is that you?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Yes, the two basic elements that go against a free economy. Lobbies make it all but impossible to conduct business and if you do manage to make something of yourself the hippies will want to take it away.

So the conservative money hoarders are screwing you over and then liberals penny pinches are too...yeah I got that

I just don't get what specific point your on about, that's all.

 

[mustafur]

Free market, what ever that means.

^is basically what he is saying.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Free market, what ever that means.

^is basically what he is saying.

I think you and I established even he's not so sure what he's saying just that it has a nice verbose about it.

 

[squadops]

I know exactly what I am saying thank you. My original point was we don't need to get rid of billionaires, and I acknowledged that I understood for the sake of argument they can be removed from a study of average income.

If you don't know what free market means than I'm at a loss. And yes we catch it coming and going, that is why we are finding such a gap and watching the middle class simply disappear. It's quite sad when collecting welfare is a better option than working.

Stop saying I don't know what I'm saying ffs

Calling me Nixon is appalling, it's a good thing I'm usually in high spirits in these debates

 

[mustafur]

Your point is basically something no one said, when did I say to get rid of billionaires? I was just saying if you forget they are there for a second it exposes how crappy the economy is.

I understand what Free market is i also understand that what is going on in America isn't even capitalism but the Welfare to the top is doing more damage to the bottom mainly because it costs more and isn't changing real income to those it is supposedly supposed to help in the trickle down process.

The number 1 thing that needs to happen before anything is the removal of corporate money from Politics only then can you make your country have a more Free market economy.

This is the main reason why I Support Bernie sanders over any Republican not that I would support any republican anyway as they are all Clinton/Bush types(Unless it's a Paul).

 

[squadops]

How many times do I need to tell you I understood your point?

If you want to see both sides working at the same time just read the Obama healthcare act, written by insurance cronies and endorsed by hippies. Everyone gets what they want A horrid piece of legislation that needs to be placed in the garbage can and burned.

Conversations generally lead in different directions do they not? Or should I go back to Berni leaving the country.

 

[mustafur]

How many times do I need to tell you I understood your point?

If you want to see both sides working at the same time just read the Obama healthcare act, written by insurance cronies and endorsed by hippies. Everyone gets what they want A horrid piece of legislation that needs to be placed in the garbage can and burned.

Conversations generally lead in different directions do they not? Or should I go back to Berni leaving the country.

More like no one gets what they want.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I know exactly what I am saying thank you. My original point was we don't need to get rid of billionaires, and I acknowledged that I understood for the sake of argument they can be removed from a study of average income.

If you don't know what free market means than I'm at a loss. And yes we catch it coming and going, that is why we are finding such a gap and watching the middle class simply disappear. It's quite sad when collecting welfare is a better option than working.

Stop saying I don't know what I'm saying ffs

Calling me Nixon is appalling, it's a good thing I'm usually in high spirits in these debates

This is the first time I've said it, I understood where he was coming from and you seemed to be going on some other tangent with a soapbox to boot. I just found it strange and out of place, which is why I didn't think you were on the same page as him. That's just me. Also I understand and am quite for a free market, but also understand their are certain issue under such that should be protected which I felt he was partially trying to get at along with other econ issues this nation faces.

 

[squadops]

We could watch ice melt if you'd rather

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

We could watch ice melt if you'd rather

Nah I prefer watching load screens on dial up internet

 

[Chrunch Houston]

So instead of letting citizens pick the delegates, the Colorado GOP decided to pick them at the state Republican convention.

Lets take a look inside.

I'm pretty sure any Colorado Republican could have attended this, but Trump's campaign really made no effort to win here.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

l really feel Jolly Rancher would make the difference.

 

[Biggles]

Even though he would tax (basically) 6.4% of GDP over the next ten years if his policies are implemented? Bernie Sanders likes to invoke Denmark a lot, and how the USA should be like them economically, so let's break their policy down shall we?

The average net income in Denmark is $26,491 USD a year. It is more than the Euro Area average of $25,908 USD a year, but this is actually considerably less income than the US, which its citizens earn $51,939 USD a year. Factor in that the USA has a Federal income tax, and no federal VAT, while Denmark taxes 8% off the top of all incomes as a "Gross Tax". This means that taking the average income in Denmark into account, $2,119.28, on average, is paid to the government, regardless if you in the lower tax brackets. Then they have an income adjustable income tax on top of that in three brackets. Income below $6,542.64 is not taxed by the income tax, but they still have to pay the "Gross Tax." Incomes at $6,557.93 USD (citing 2014-levels, as if they were maintained to today) to $64,356.36 USD, pay at a rate of, again citing 2014 levels, 5.83%. Incomes over $64,509.23 pay an additional 15%. There is also a muncipal income tax, in the range of 23-28%, a Health contribution of 8% on all income taxable income (though that is getting merged with the regular income tax. It is entirely possible for a high-wage earner in Denmark to pay OVER HALF of their income AFTER the "Gross Tax", being taxed a total of 57% of their income. That is on a national level.

Own property in Denmark? According to 2013 tax levels, you pay 1.6%-3.4%. Go to the Danish National Church? Get ready to pay 0.4-1.5% church tax. Oh, and there is a VAT of 25%, one of the highest rates in the EU.

All in all, if you are a high earner, you pay a lot of money in taxes per dollar spent, a staggering 82% on the dollar, and this is the future that Sanders wants? He can move to Denmark if he likes it so much, and I'll even pay for his one way airfare.

You figures aren't entirely accurate from what I understand. A very interesting source for the data is:

http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/income/

Bottom line there are many different factors in measuring quality of life. The "average" figures for the US are skewed due to the US having the highest income inequality in the OECD, excepting only Turkey, Brazil, Chile & Mexico. This means that if you take the overall figures, that include billions of dollars earned by a very few individuals, the actual net income for most Americans is much lower than it appears. In Denmark & the other Scandinavian countries income inequality is much lower.

Income & wealth inequality everywhere in the West is growing. It's possible to simply ignore the societal pressures this creates, but in the long run it's likely to be a serious problem. The trend in the Western economies for most of the 20th century was decreasing income & wealth inequality - this was partly a response to the threat to the monied classes posed by the Bolshevik revolution in Russia & similar movements in other countries. The introduction of social security & welfare for the less well-off was funded by rapid economic growth & very high progressive taxation rates on the wealthy. Since the 1980's income & wealth inequality has been increasing again & now stands at levels similar to before the First World War.

That's really what Bernie Sanders is addressing.

 

[IforceV8]

Cruz's former college roommate.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Marco Rubio all but endorses Ted Cruz.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/marco-rubio-sort-endorses-ted-cruz-shuts-vp/story?id=38355937

 

[Famine]

I bet if you took out all the billionaires from America the average income would be bumped down to less then 20k.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

Oh look Norway is higher.

and @Sanji Himura Denmarks Average income is $51,424 USD hardly that much lower.

To make this fair we can average out all the income from all the 5 Nordic countries if you want?

USA: $55,904
Nordics: $53,976

Damn look how poor they are.

(keep in mind this is going by the chart that favors America best, if we use the united nations one USA gets decimated).

Is that net or gross?

 

[squadops]

Is that net or gross?

Must be gross and without throwing out their billionaires?

 

[Sanji Himura]

I cited Net.

 

[mustafur]

So if we use Net USA keeps all their money and the Nordics lose half?

lolol

anyway here is another Measure which can reflect wage reality from a net perspective if you wish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income

Thats Net household income^



and this one includes costs of living https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage

Norway is ahead in all, in median Income only Finland lags behind USA the rest are ahead.

Either way all these countries are far from poor to make any reference to it being inferior.

 

[Famine]

So if we use Net USA keeps all their money and the Nordics lose half?

You have to use net - by what possible measure can money I never see because it's taken away from me be used to show my wealth?

anyway here is another Measure which can reflect wage reality from a net perspective if you wish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income

Thats Net household income^

You may have linked to the wrong thing, as the very first set of data there is titled "Gallup gross median income"...

and this one includes costs of living https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage

Again it looks like you have linked to the wrong thing, but one of those tables does at least now show net wages. And it shows that net wages in the lead country - the USA - are 50% higher than in the second place country - the UK... The first Scandinavian country there has net wages nearly 20% lower than the UK.

This might be a good time to ignore all the billionaires in the USA and UK (but not Norway, Sweden, Finland or Denmark), because that data will need quite some skewing to put the average American financially worse off than anyone.

 

[mustafur]

You have to use net - by what possible measure can money I never see because it's taken away from me be used to show my wealth?
You may have linked to the wrong thing, as the very first set of data there is titled "Gallup gross median income"...
Again it looks like you have linked to the wrong thing, but one of those tables does at least now show net wages. And it shows that net wages in the lead country - the USA - are 50% higher than in the second place country - the UK... The first Scandinavian country there has net wages nearly 20% lower than the UK.

This might be a good time to ignore all the billionaires in the USA and UK (but not Norway, Sweden, Finland or Denmark), because that data will need quite some skewing to put the average American financially worse off than anyone.

That was a list of 6 countries not by any order though, even if you used the same deductions as Finland(which is higher then Sweden) on Norways Gross Income it would still be higher then USA.

Also to Note the USA one only counts Federal Tax not State or Local tax which comes under their tax bracket.

 

[Famine]

That was a list of 6 countries not by any order though, even if you used the same deductions as Finland(which is higher then Sweden) on Norways Gross Income it would still be higher then USA.

Yes, you keep saying - but somehow keep failing to show it...

Also to Note the USA one only counts Federal Tax not State or Local tax which comes under their tax bracket.

Nor did any of the others...

Keep trying.

 

[squadops]

I don't know if any of those numbers can be trusted but I do know if the best solution a candidate can come up with is to mimic another country, well.

He's not worth a hill of beans.