[POLL] United States Presidential Elections 2016

The party nominees are named. Now who do you support?


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I don't call killing thousands while targeting hundreds precise. Oh sure, the bomb might land on a precise spot, but the target may or may not be there and the explosion is not six feet high and two feet wide. It takes out entire buildings or city blocks. Sometimes you kill children. Sometimes you even kill American citizens.

Add in the double tap policy and it goes from imprecise to war crimes, as we are killing first responders. It gets worse when you read the reports of striking the funerals.
So, how would you go about it? Go in with the infantry and have the innocents get killed by bullets? Warfare means killing and to me precision bombing those lunatics is the most humane solution, although bystanders might get killed in the process.

If you know a more humane way to disable ISIS, be sure to let me know :)
 
So, how would you go about it? Go in with the infantry and have the innocents get killed by bullets? Warfare means killing and to me precision bombing those lunatics is the most humane solution, although bystanders might get killed in the process.

If you know a more humane way to disable ISIS, be sure to let me know :)

The US is not really serious about degrading and destroying ISIS, and is only pretending to paw at them and hiss a little. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...0-spies-say-isis-intelligence-was-cooked.html

If we were serious, and destroying ISIS was actually the top priority, we would either throw everything we have at them or join with allies like Russia and Iran who are supporting the Alawite regime in fighting and crushing them.

Instead, we have other goals that we really are serious about. These would appear to include making as many failed states as possible, creating as much sectarian strife as possible, and getting all sides to bleeding profusely but with no side in a position to dominate or prevail. It is a cynical policy of creative destruction and seemingly permanent revolution.
 
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The US is not really serious about degrading and destroying ISIS, and is only pretending to paw at them and hiss a little.http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...0-spies-say-isis-intelligence-was-cooked.html

If we were serious, and destroying ISIS was actually the top priority, we would either throw everything we have at them or join with allies like Russia and Iran who are supporting the Alawite regime in fighting them.
Or maybe Obama thinks ahead and just wants to contain this, without making things worse by making impulsive decisions of either parading Murica's power or create tricky alliances.

Thank god this man stays on for another year, it's going to be a very delicate last year for him internationally with so much crisis, but i'm confident he's smart enough to make wise decisions at all time.

Make a cowboy handle this conflict and it would only escalate.
 
Make a cowboy handle this conflict and it would only escalate.

Most every nation in the Middle East is either failed, in military conflict, bursting with refugees, or funneling money and arms into the conflict. Except for Egypt, which had a failed democratic revolution, then slipped back into a redoubled military dictatorship. How does this get any worse? Probably if one side were to prevail, say the majority Sunnis, then the minorities would be slain, enslaved or driven out. Is this the victory you seek?
 
Most every nation in the Middle East is either failed, in military conflict, bursting with refugees, or funneling money and arms into the conflict. Except for Egypt, which had a failed democratic revolution, then slipped back into a redoubled military dictatorship. How does this get any worse? Probably if one side were to prevail, say the majority Sunnis, then the minorities would be slain, enslaved or driven out. Is this the victory you seek?
We're talking about 2 different things here. One thing being the situation as it is and the other being how you handle it as an outsider. This is a very delicate situation because you have to battle ISIS, but you can't take extreme measures so the arab world sees it as an agression of the west VS the muslim world.

ISIS wants us to go in there balls over brains, as it suits their master plan/ agenda. A president like Donald Trump would be perfect for their propaganda machine.
 
ISIS wants us to go in there balls over brains, as it suits their master plan/ agenda. A president like Donald Trump would be perfect for their propaganda machine.

What would you say if the Donald recognized ISIS and negotiated with them?
 
What would you say if the Donald recognized ISIS and negotiated with them?
An impeachment should then occur. We don't negotiate with terrorists... (well, apart from that one time where the stuff went downhill).
 
"Terrorist" is kindof a nebulous vague term. Quite often we negotiate with entities that use fear to accomplish their goals (North Korea, Iran, Russia, the Republicans, the Democrats, and Christians).
Daesh or whatever you want to call them is associated with Al Qaeda... But I know what you're alluding to. This group specifically is.
 
So, how would you go about it? Go in with the infantry and have the innocents get killed by bullets? Warfare means killing and to me precision bombing those lunatics is the most humane solution, although bystanders might get killed in the process.

If you know a more humane way to disable ISIS, be sure to let me know :)
Bombs or bullets. It's killing and neither is humane. If you think a bomb is humane I can show you some pictures that you might disagree with. Of course, you don't seem to be addressing the double tap policy. How humane is killing first responders trying to save the bystanders? How humane is bombing the funerals?

Our drone policy accidentally kills people who don't deserve it, intentionally kills those who are only present because we dropped a bomb, and those who are guilty by nothing more than association. It's not humane. It's criminal.


Now, as for how I would go about it: If I were to become president when Obama did and inherit the situation that Obama did I would have started by not getting involved in three countries that we were not actively engaged with. There are indicators that ISIS got their power because of the situation in Syria. It sounds almost like ISIS got its ability to take power the way AL Qaeda did; with our unintentional aid.

Syria, Libya, and Pakistan. Why are we there? Why did we feel the need to get involved in internal disputes? Why are over 3500 Pakistanis dead due to American bombs?

In light of all of this, it is no wonder ISIS managed to gain power. We gave them the ability to fight and the justification to recruit new members.

If I could go back further than Obama, we wouldn't have been in the situation we were in when Obama took office. I wouldn't be that entangled with the Middle East. It is too unstable and no longer necessary to rely on for their resources.

Or maybe Obama thinks ahead and just wants to contain this, without making things worse by making impulsive decisions of either parading Murica's power or create tricky alliances.
If he had thought ahead ISIS likely wouldn't be where they are today. But he had to get on the same side as John McCain.

Thank god this man stays on for another year, it's going to be a very delicate last year for him internationally with so much crisis, but i'm confident he's smart enough to make wise decisions at all time.
Considering his past record of getting involved in conflicts that have nothing to do with us in countries that we have not declared hostilities with, I am not so sure about his wise decisions.

Make a cowboy handle this conflict and it would only escalate.
I, for one, don't want a cowboy either. I don't want a McCain, a bush, a Hilary or an Obama involved in this. I want someone who won't just start dropping bombs, without consent from Congress, and using a secret kill list. There is so much wrong and un-American about that scenario that I can't begin to explain it.

ISIS wants us to go in there balls over brains, as it suits their master plan/ agenda. A president like Donald Trump would be perfect for their propaganda machine.
You're right. And we want ISIS to go all insane too, just so we can justify more war. They escalate and we use it to justify us escalating. They use our escalation to justify their escalation. Then we use their escalation to justify our escalation. And on and on and on.

The only one of us capable to say, "This is madness," is us. Unfortunately, we are too busy screaming, "THIS IS SPARTA!!!" and looking bold and brave to just want to stop.
 
Unfortunately, the way that we got the Muslims off American's backs in the Barbary Wars was to go over there and kick their ***** using the Marine Corps. That is why the first lines of the Marines' Hymn goes like this:

From the Halls of Montezuma
To the Shores of Tripoli
We fight our country's battles
In the air, on land and sea.


All these idiots know is strength, and it is painfully obvious that we need an army to do the job.
 
Now, as for how I would go about it: If I were to become president when Obama did and inherit the situation that Obama did I would have started by not getting involved in three countries that we were not actively engaged with. There are indicators that ISIS got their power because of the situation in Syria. It sounds almost like ISIS got its ability to take power the way AL Qaeda did; with our unintentional aid.
ISIS started out as Al Qaeda in Iraq, a situation which the Bush government created when they invaded and then had to leave without leaving stability or balanced leadership by the people they appointed. It's safe to say that if Saddam was still in power ISIS would not have existed today.

The arab spring which led to the situation in Lybia and Syria, was something that happened outside of our control. Afterwards the west supported the rebels yes, and maybe it would have been better if we stood aside. Maybe the situation in those countries would have been different.

If I could go back further than Obama, we wouldn't have been in the situation we were in when Obama took office. I wouldn't be that entangled with the Middle East. It is too unstable and no longer necessary to rely on for their resources.
Indeed, but as we all know that's the fault of the Bush administration. The world (UN) warned of what is happening now, but they went ahead and did it anyway.. If America would just create the mess and then leave the whole region to collapse that would have been plain cruel.

If he had thought ahead ISIS likely wouldn't be where they are today. But he had to get on the same side as John McCain.
Meaning pulling out of Iraq? Yes in hindsight America should have stayed there until the country was truly stable, and able to govern itself.
 
Before I start, please do not think I support what Bush did. My answers should make it painfully clear that I did not.
ISIS started out as Al Qaeda in Iraq, a situation which the Bush government created when they invaded and then had to leave without leaving stability or balanced leadership by the people they appointed. It's safe to say that if Saddam was still in power ISIS would not have existed today.
While I can't disagree with that part, I clearly stated that my answer was based on what Obama did after he came into office and inherited the situation. What Bush did is irrelevant, unless you are willing to admit that Obama has been so useless that after eight years Obama has been unable to actually do anything about ISIS. It's like saying the exterminator takes no blame when he can't get rid of the ants that you let into your house. If Obama was being effective then how did ISIS grow to become what they are under his watch?

ISIS really grew in the last few years, under Obama's watch.

The arab spring which led to the situation in Lybia and Syria, was something that happened outside of our control. Afterwards the west supported the rebels yes, and maybe it would have been better if we stood aside. Maybe the situation in those countries would have been different.
They definitely couldn't use our activities as a recruiting tool.


Indeed, but as we all know that's the fault of the Bush administration.
If you think the US' entanglement in the Middle East started with Bush you don't know your US history very well. This goes back at least a generation, possibly two.

The world (UN) warned of what is happening now, but they went ahead and did it anyway.. If America would just create the mess and then leave the whole region to collapse that would have been plain cruel.
Yes, we are unfortunately in a situation where we should clean up our mess. Unfortunately, we are trying to clean up with bombs. The only way you will stop ISIS with "precision" drone strikes is to carpet bomb the entire region. At this point I believe the only options are to back off and let ISIS gain control or go in with massive force. There is the third option of diplomacy, but that's just crazy talk in Washington.

Meaning pulling out of Iraq? Yes in hindsight America should have stayed there until the country was truly stable, and able to govern itself.
No, in getting involved in Syria and Libya.



I'm still curious how you can think a man that is responsible for killing 3500+ people in a country we had no issue with, and is responsible for what the UN views as war crimes, is a good option.
 
I'm still curious how you can think a man that is responsible for killing 3500+ people in a country we had no issue with, and is responsible for what the UN views as war crimes, is a good option.
You don't like Obama do you? :D

Find me a US president that didn't cause thousands of deaths during his term. You'd be hard pressed as America is always policing somewhere in the world.
 
You don't like Obama do you? :D

Find me a US president that didn't cause thousands of deaths during his term. You'd be hard pressed as America is always policing somewhere in the world.
I don't like Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, etc.

We won't find a US president whose foreign policy doesn't wind up with us killing thousands (I have similar feelings about domestic policies) until the voters in this country stop saying, "I'll take slightly less evil candidate #1" and finally realize that voting for the Tweedledee Party or the Tweedledum Party will get us nowhere better than running in a circle.

I'm registered to vote under a third party and haven't voted for either of the major parties in major elections since 2008.
 
The amount of and quality of people trying to become president recently is laughable. They could seriously make a reality show out of this crap. It's nothing more than people wanting their 5 minutes of fame and most of them couldn't give a crap about turning this country around. Our government is a joke and the world is laughing at us.
 
They could seriously make a reality show out of this crap.

Indeed they could. I am still amazed how politicians are treated in the US of A. Looking at speeches, people screaming their lungs out, it's like they are rockstars. We are talking about dusty office dwellers here.
 
Indeed they could. I am still amazed how politicians are treated in the US of A. Looking at speeches, people screaming their lungs out, it's like they are rockstars. We are talking about dusty office dwellers here.
Some of those screamers get payed to do so. That says enough already doesn't it...
 
You don't like Obama do you? :D

Find me a US president that didn't cause thousands of deaths during his term. You'd be hard pressed as America is always policing somewhere in the world.


Harding? So why is he so awesome? Well other than rolling back government, he actually rolled-back the warfare state..if anything the was a true conservative compared to the phony ones we have now.

Anyhow this is awsome.....

http://www.unz.com/anapolitano/what-if-hillary-clinton-doesnt-care/

I wonder how many blind hillarybots would read something like that.
 
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Jeb Bush claimed last night that his brother had "kept us safe". Really?
I took this from the America thread and also took the liberty to fix a typo.
Also I know this has nothing to do with the person I quoted. Now on to the theme of Bush's.
George W. Bush did cocaine! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-seery/the-bush-cocaine-chronicl_b_37786.html
Jeb Bush smoked weed! http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/17/politics/rand-paul-jeb-bush-marijuana-hypocrisy/index.html
Sad thing is he(Jeb) still wants to keep it illegal. I know who's not getting my vote this election...
 
You don't like Obama do you? :D

Find me a US president that didn't cause thousands of deaths during his term. You'd be hard pressed as America is always policing somewhere in the world.

In more recent times, Jimmy Carter is, IIRC, a president who did not wage war, and is on the recored as saying:-
“The Vietnam War, I think, was an unnecessary war; the invasion of Iraq was an unnecessary war… We need to be more reluctant to go to war."
 
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