[POLL] United States Presidential Elections 2016

[Sanji Himura]

Jim Webb stops his bid for the Democratic ticket, making him the first Democrat to fall in the election. According to Real Clear Politics, Webb has averaged 1-2% in the polls, and in a recent PPP poll, earned 2% in a hypothetical New Hampshire Primary.

According to his campaign, he did not immediately rule out an independent run.

 

[CTznOfTime]

"Hip" you can trust ?

 

[Keef]

Because ideally,democracy should work.
The check and balance is done by pipular votes. Any stupid idea would ve weeded out by popular votes...
Any poor decisions would be voted out by popularity (assuming the voters thinks and considers rationally.

How the hell is a bad decision that was made by simple majority rule supposed to be overturned by another simple majority vote?

And what is there to stop the majority from voting that anybody who doesn't agree with them gets thrown in jail? There is nothing to stop something like that in a pure democracy. The only tenant of democracy is majority rule. That's what it means. Contrary to what you seem to think or what people will tell you (and even what wikipedia will tell you), the term "democracy" comes from a Latin word which means "majority rule". That's it. Anything else isn't democracy. Basically any government that utilizes elected representatives is a republic, not a democracy, and that means the vast majority of governments in existence today are republics, not democracies.

 

[CTznOfTime]

How the hell is a bad decision that was made by simple majority rule supposed to be overturned by another simple majority vote?

And what is there to stop the majority from voting that anybody who doesn't agree with them gets thrown in jail? There is nothing to stop something like that in a pure democracy.

What you described is a bit too simplistic... I kinda understand what you want to say, but in this specific example, i dont believe that the majority would want other people to be thrown in jail just because they dont agree... People arent that simple and basic... I trust in the humanity of the majority.

If we are going to talk about an ideal democracy,we also have to assume the humanity of the population will exist.

The only tenant of democracy is majority rule.

I know that. 50.01% is the majority.

That's what it means. Contrary to what you seem to think or what people will tell you (and even what wikipedia will tell you), the term "democracy" comes from a Latin word which means "majority rule". That's it. Anything else isn't democracy. Basically any government that utilizes elected representatives is a republic, not a democracy, and that means the vast majority of governments in existence today are republics, not democracies.

I trust that you are correct therefore i will agree with you here.

Everything here is just a facade then.

 

[TenEightyOne]

There is nothing to stop something like that in a pure democracy.

Literally true, but they don't exist. From Magna Carta to UNHR there are lots of controls in place with sanctions for "democratic" players who err.

 

[Dotini]

The representative democracy - or republic - of the US has always depended upon the quality of the citizenry to make it work and last as long as it has. The founders warned us it will always depend upon that. Unfortunately, parts of our founding constitution now seem out of date, unworkable or ignored (like the responsibility of Congress to declare war), and we are unable for various reasons to amend the constitution or call a constitutional convention. So in a sense we live in a state of cognitive dissonance where our highest law says one thing, and our actions say another. I would say democracy US-style is in a state of decay and corruption. So we need to look at the qualities of our citizens.

 

[Adamgp]

Biden just announced he will not be running.

 

[Danoff]

What you described is a bit too simplistic... I kinda understand what you want to say, but in this specific example, i dont believe that the majority would want other people to be thrown in jail just because they dont agree... People arent that simple and basic... I trust in the humanity of the majority.

If we are going to talk about an ideal democracy,we also have to assume the humanity of the population will exist.

There is no idea democracy, majority rule is tyranny of the majority. The exact reason that we have rights in this country and a constitution is because the people that framed our government took a look a pure democracy and said "this sucks, we need to fix it". That's why we're a constitutionally limited republic. Also, check my signature.

 

[Touring Mars]

Biden just announced he will not be running.

Considering he will be 73 by the time the election rolls around, it was always likely to be more like a casual stroll than a run for the presidency anyway, and was never likely to keep pace with the Hillary juggernaut anyway - best he saves himself and everyone else the bother of pretending that the Democratic nomination will go to anyone other than Mrs. Clinton.

 

[Liquid]

His son recently died too so it's understandable that Biden would step down and take some time off anyway. A Presidential campaign would be added stress and headaches.

 

[Swagger897]

I watched some of the announcement and it sounds like he had a good campaign plan set out. Very in line with the democratic's party view, but far less on what Hillary wants to do...


We'll see just how low her ratings go tomorrow afternoon though.. At least that's what I suspect.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Biden just announced he will not be running.

OP amended accordingly.

 

[Adamgp]

His son recently died too so it's understandable that Biden would step down and take some time off anyway. A Presidential campaign would be added stress and headaches.

I didn't expect he would run for this very reason. The loss of his son seemed to hit him pretty hard.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I didn't expect he would run for this very reason. The loss of his son seemed to hit him pretty hard.

His son wanted him to run for President, so I'm guessing if this had anything to do with his son, he would have chosen to run instead. I still wouldn't count him out. If Hilary messes up bad in the Benghazi hearings or has a few more faux pas, Biden could easily just jump into the race at any time. He doesn't need a long and protracted campaign to raise awareness or gather support, he'd instantly have the backing of Obama and likely many high profile Democrats and he's generally a likable guy even if he's a little creepy putting his hands on women and a bit of a dufus.

I'd guess that he probably thinks he's too old and his health would take a huge hit in 4 years if he won. He's probably happy that his run near the top is over and I can see him retiring next year and playing with his grandkids for the rest of his life.

 

[Adamgp]

His son wanted him to run for President, so I'm guessing if this had anything to do with his son, he would have chosen to run instead. I still wouldn't count him out. If Hilary messes up bad in the Benghazi hearings or has a few more faux pas, Biden could easily just jump into the race at any time. He doesn't need a long and protracted campaign to raise awareness or gather support, he'd instantly have the backing of Obama and likely many high profile Democrats and he's generally a likable guy even if he's a little creepy putting his hands on women and a bit of a dufus.

I'd guess that he probably thinks he's too old and his health would take a huge hit in 4 years if he won. He's probably happy that his run near the top is over and I can see him retiring next year and playing with his grandkids for the rest of his life.

His son wanted him to run, doesn't mean Joe could run. Joe was very close to his son, especially after the 1972 car crash that killed his daughter and first wife. Grief is a powerful thing, after losing that many loved ones he probably realized he didn't have the ability emotionally to run for President. I wouldn't be surprised if he announces full retirement in the near future.

The support seemed to be there. Most polls on RCP had Biden 2nd or 3rd even without officially entering. RCP polls usually had him doing better than Clinton in head to head match-ups vs leading Republicans.

 

[Liquid]

I would have been very interested in a President Biden. But he's not running so the focus shifts to the other Dems. Has Hilary won the next debate yet?

 

[Dotini]

I would have been very interested in a President Biden. But he's not running so the focus shifts to the other Dems. Has Hilary won the next debate yet?

She's zoomed ahead of Sanders in the polls, and it's a guarantee she wins if CNN hosts the debate. Their parent corporation is her 7th largest financial supporter. Hillary is the quintessential establishment/MSM candidate.

 

[A2K78]

Ron Paul is awesome....

 

[CTznOfTime]

Hypothetically:

Ron Paul vs Bernie Sanders

Which one would you guys favor?

Am curious.

 

[A2K78]

Hypothetically:

Ron Paul vs Bernie Sanders

Which one would you guys favor?

Am curious.

Ron Paul and why? He's nothing like our crop of rulers..Sanders included.

 

[Swagger897]

Other than being quite outspoken in generally everything he does, Ron is quite similar to Bernie and the changes they both want done. A but like Trump too in the fact he would not sponsor either 2008 nominee, and said that the election system needs to be changed as all it is now is a charade.

However, he almost reminds me of George H W Bush... Don't know how, but does.


I'd prefer Sanders however. Some of the ideas Paul had during the 2012 debates were too far fetched and knee-jerk reactions to whatever was asked.

 

[Swagger897]

Still can't believe the hearing is still on...

 

[Sanji Himura]

Breitbart: Clinton admitted to breaking US Law to Rep. Susan Brooks. The law? The Secure Embassy Construction and Counterterrorism Act of 1999. Relevant sections of the law:

(2) Site selection
(A) In general
In selecting a site for any new United States diplomatic facility abroad, the Secretary shall ensure that all United States Government personnel at the post (except those under the command of an area military commander) will be located on the site.
(B) Waiver authority
(i) In general Subject to clause (ii), the Secretary of State may waive subparagraph (A) if the Secretary, together with the head of each agency employing personnel that would not be located at the site, determine that security considerations permit and it is in the national interest of the United States.
(ii) Chancery or consulate building
(I) Authority not delegable The Secretary may not delegate the waiver authority under clause (i) with respect to a chancery or consulate building.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...clinton-admits-she-broke-u-s-law-in-benghazi/

 

[Swagger897]

So 10+ hours worth and that's the only new piece of evidence they found....


I hope that's enough to actually do something worth damage..

 

[A2K78]

Other than being quite outspoken in generally everything he does, Ron is quite similar to Bernie and the changes they both want done. A but like Trump too in the fact he would not sponsor either 2008 nominee, and said that the election system needs to be changed as all it is now is a charade.

However, he almost reminds me of George H W Bush... Don't know how, but does.


I'd prefer Sanders however. Some of the ideas Paul had during the 2012 debates were too far fetched and knee-jerk reactions to whatever was asked.

Comparing Ron to Bernie is stupid and why? Compared to Bernie Ron is not a populist but someone who speaks from a principled Pov. If you've ever read any of his books you'll see how authentic he is.

As for Clinton, she's the most disgusting creature currently on the earth but in reality the GOP just handed her a huge victory given the fact it had nothing to with America's dumb interventionist foreign policies.

If the GOP really want to damage Clinton they would have to reject the stupid foriegn policy/interventions that turned Iraq, Libya and Syria into failed states/terrorist havens. Sadly the GOP is fully lockstepped with Clinton.

 

[DK]

What's unprincipled about Sanders? For starters, he's called for reforms in the justice system (e.g. drug decriminalisation, just like Ron & Rand Paul), and also like the Pauls he has criticised government surveillance. He was involved in the civil rights movement in the 1960s and has been a proponent of LGBT rights since the 1970s.

 

[CTznOfTime]

Comparing Ron to Bernie is stupid and why? Compared to Bernie Ron is not a populist but someone who speaks from a principled Pov. If you've ever read any of his books you'll see how authentic he is.

As for Clinton, she's the most disgusting creature currently on the earth but in reality the GOP just handed her a huge victory given the fact it had nothing to with America's dumb interventionist foreign policies.

If the GOP really want to damage Clinton they would have to reject the stupid foriegn policy/interventions that turned Iraq, Libya and Syria into failed states/terrorist havens. Sadly the GOP is fully lockstepped with Clinton.

Thanks for calling me stupid and uncultured.

Your post was very educational for me.
Thanks to you, i see why it is so stupid to have people who are not authentic nor worthy to be President running along side wasting everyone's time.

/assets/12/xenforo/smilies/bowdown.gif


Happy Friday because now i know exactly whom i should vote for.

 

[Swagger897]

Comparing Ron to Bernie is stupid and why? Compared to Bernie Ron is not a populist but someone who speaks from a principled Pov. If you've ever read any of his books you'll see how authentic he is.

As for Clinton, she's the most disgusting creature currently on the earth but in reality the GOP just handed her a huge victory given the fact it had nothing to with America's dumb interventionist foreign policies.

If the GOP really want to damage Clinton they would have to reject the stupid foriegn policy/interventions that turned Iraq, Libya and Syria into failed states/terrorist havens. Sadly the GOP is fully lockstepped with Clinton.

What's unprincipled about Sanders? For starters, he's called for reforms in the justice system (e.g. drug decriminalisation, just like Ron & Rand Paul), and also like the Pauls he has criticised government surveillance. He was involved in the civil rights movement in the 1960s and has been a proponent of LGBT rights since the 1970s.

I agree with both of you but @A2K78 you need to look more at what both have done within the past 5-8 years. Like, 1970's back. Both of them agreed on a wide array of issues, and both are on the outer edge of their parties agreements.


@CTznOfTime The only reason why I like Sanders the most is because he is wanting to switch to systems found in Europe and elsewhere around the world that actually work and have done so for the past 10 years with out major issues. Rather than come in and swipe everything away that Obama has done and start out with no idea (ehmm... Republicans), basing what has proven to work is what we need to get back to being level.

 

[FoolKiller]

I agree with both of you but @A2K78 you need to look more at what both have done within the past 5-8 years. Like, 1970's back. Both of them agreed on a wide array of issues, and both are on the outer edge of their parties agreements.

They agree on civil rights and partially on national security/military activity. But bring up economics and regulation and you have two very different men.

You can say that about comparing any libertarian-minded person to Bernie Sanders.

 

[Swagger897]

Well, yeah. A comparison of a far left to far right will never bound to be the same, but they both agree on certain topics of interest, not so much as orderly operation of a country.