[POLL] United States Presidential Elections 2016

The party nominees are named. Now who do you support?


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Americans spend about 3 trillion on healthcare as it is now. That's fine?
Americans use healthcare very differently than you guys do up there. http://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunr...g-on-track-to-hit-10000-per-person-this-year/
I didn't say it was fine or not. I responded to your contention that Canadians have free healthcare, which we don't. As I knock your points down one by one are you ever going to acknowledge any of my actual responses or just ignore them as if I said nothing and continuously move the goalposts and set up strawmen?
 
I want a system where the lowest of the low aren't dying on the streets from hunger and other curable diseases.
You seem to be confusing The United States Of America with Yemen and Calcutta.

Nobody is dying in the streets from hunger and curable diseases.

There are food banks everywhere and food is crazy cheap in the USA - many places sell food for $1 a meal. I know, we survived the early years on cheap food.

If you have no health insurance (which is a misnomer anyway) arrive at an Emergency Room and by law you have to be treated.

100,000's of illegals do this every year and have babies and get full postnatal care on the house (that means free)

Again, those YouTubes are not of Calcutta Georgia, that's Calcutta India.

I'm not sure how that is so evil and anti American to you, the system as it is now is broken no one is saying it works as it is.
Wait what? Where did I say state aid is un-American or even suggest not having any?

And if the system is broken, it is broken in that it ENCOURAGES people to STAY on it rather than get off of state aid.

I have to ask why you hate poor people so much that you would rather they be forced to stay on the plantation and take hand outs than work there way out?

I'm saying we need to give everyone healthcare, everyone an education and let everything else figure itself out. Having a system where you can get help for the rent and other utilities dosent have to be the same one we deal with now, it can change.
And how is this going to be paid for? All this free stuff to everyone? Who pays for it?

And if I get all my rent paid, all my food paid and all my medical paid why would I 'move on'?

You have basically described the condition under which children live from birth to age 18 when they go off and live life.

Now let me ask you, if at age 18 you rent kept being paid, your food was paid and all medical paid even if you didn't work, why would you go work?

What is the incentive to do anything other than just watch the mail box waiting for you cheque?

What you are describing is not a safety system,, it is a prison system.


This is what Clinton and Sanders are offering - I see now what attracts you to them.
 
I didn't say it was fine or not. I responded to your contention that Canadians have free healthcare, which we don't. As I knock your points down one by one are you ever going to acknowledge any of my actual responses or just ignore them as if I said nothing and continuously move the goalposts and set up strawmen?

You pay taxes and you can go to the doctor without paying a copay. I pay taxes and I have to pay a $500 copay.

You seem to be confusing The United States Of America with Yemen and Calcutta.

Nobody is dying in the streets from hunger and curable diseases.

There are food banks everywhere and food is crazy cheap in the USA - many places sell food for $1 a meal. I know, we survived the early years on cheap food.

If you have no health insurance (which is a misnomer anyway) arrive at an Emergency Room and by law you have to be treated.

100,000's of illegals do this every year and have babies and get full postnatal care on the house (that means free)

Again, those YouTubes are not of Calcutta Georgia, that's Calcutta India.


Wait what? Where did I say state aid is un-American or even suggest not having any?

And if the system is broken, it is broken in that it ENCOURAGES people to STAY on it rather than get off of state aid.

I have to ask why you hate poor people so much that you would rather they be forced to stay on the plantation and take hand outs than work there way out?


And how is this going to be paid for? All this free stuff to everyone? Who pays for it?

And if I get all my rent paid, all my food paid and all my medical paid why would I 'move on'?

You have basically described the condition under which children live from birth to age 18 when they go off and live life.

Now let me ask you, if at age 18 you rent kept being paid, your food was paid and all medical paid even if you didn't work, why would you go work?

What is the incentive to do anything other than just watch the mail box waiting for you cheque?

What you are describing is not a safety system,, it is a prison system.


This is what Clinton and Sanders are offering - I see now what attracts you to them.

There you go using personal attacks assuming zi want to benefit from the system. People going to ERs when they could just as easily go to a clinic is the reason why there is a 3 trillion dollar healthcare bill in the U.S. You are making the claim that getting help makes you not want to work but where is the proof? You are using every excuse in the world not to help people out.
 
You pay taxes and you can go to the doctor without paying a copay. I pay taxes and I have to pay a $500 copay.
And you don't have to wait 18 weeks for life saving surgery.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/c...tients+south+surgery+Video/9702357/story.html
Long wait times are increasingly driving patients south, including two Albertans who underwent surgery on the same day last month, and commiserated about feeling abandoned by an ailing system back home.

Their Florida surgeon has seen the number of Canadian patients grow by a staggering 800 per cent in the past decade. Medical tourism has become big business for the sunny southern state, which is poised to spend $5 million next year in bid to lure more people for specialized procedures.

Alberta Health Services’ wait times website shows a 46-week wait for neck surgeries, which would include those similar to the operations performed at the Parathyroid Center in Florida. That’s six weeks longer than the wait last year, when 90 per cent of “interventions” were done within 40 weeks.

A Fraser Institute report, meanwhile, showed wait times for surgical and other therapeutic treatments across the country rose last year to an average of 18.2 weeks compared with 17.7 the year before. The total wait time in 2013 was 95 per cent longer than in 1993.

How far can you move those goalposts?
 
There you go using personal attacks assuming zi want to benefit from the system.
Whoa. Slow down pal, where did I attack you?

You are saying this sentence is a personal attack?

If you have no health insurance (which is a misnomer anyway) arrive at an Emergency Room and by law you have to be treated.

The YOU is not YOU personally, it is a figurative YOU - a part of naturally flowing written word.

Seriously, this is the most asinine accusation I have seen online in years.

You have yet to address a single answer I provided you to direct question you posed me, yet claim I am attacking you when I am not?

People going to ERs when they could just as easily go to a clinic is the reason why there is a 3 trillion dollar healthcare bill in the U.S. You are making the claim that getting help makes you not want to work but where is the proof? You are using every excuse in the world not to help people out.
The proof is there to see, all the help forced on people has kept them in the ghettos.

I am not making this up, go look in the ghetto and see for yourself.

As to why healthcare costs are so high, a main reason is actually because the current system has a program in place where price is controlled and reimbursed by government.

The same principle apples - the hospitals get their handouts from the government as reimbursements, why should they stop claiming at the allowed rate if the government keeps paying them (the hospitals)?

But not to worry, the bucket of money is almost dried up - in a couple years those Medicare claims will go unpaid because the system has been bled dry.
 
1994 - the Clinton years, when believe it or not, there was a sliding reducing scale of benefits. But popping out a baby was a clever way to play the numbers. That fact kept a lot of folks on the plantation.
Ah okay, just looked at that and thought "it has to be almost a decade+ ago."
If answer to being PC is being racist I think I'll sit this one out then.
That's not where I'm getting at. You said:
Trump's rise has nothing to do with the PC culture

When it's exactly that.
 
Trump's current rise is likely more due to terrorism fears than anything else, someone says.
 
And you don't have to wait 18 weeks for life saving surgery.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/c...tients+south+surgery+Video/9702357/story.html




How far can you move those goalposts?

& the reason people are waiting is because everyone gets healthcare or because of the lack of population and the population size?

Whoa. Slow down pal, where did I attack you?

You are saying this sentence is a personal attack?

If you have no health insurance (which is a misnomer anyway) arrive at an Emergency Room and by law you have to be treated.

The YOU is not YOU personally, it is a figurative YOU - a part of naturally flowing written word.

Seriously, this is the most asinine accusation I have seen online in years.

You have yet to address a single answer I provided you to direct question you posed me, yet claim I am attacking you when I am not?


The proof is there to see, all the help forced on people has kept them in the ghettos.

I am not making this up, go look in the ghetto and see for yourself.

As to why healthcare costs are so high, a main reason is actually because the current system has a program in place where price is controlled and reimbursed by government.

The same principle apples - the hospitals get their handouts from the government as reimbursements, why should they stop claiming at the allowed rate if the government keeps paying them (the hospitals)?

But not to worry, the bucket of money is almost dried up - in a couple years those Medicare claims will go unpaid because the system has been bled dry.

That's not true. You can't provide an ounce of proof that getting healthcare and an education keeps people poor, it's the opposite in fact. You are still assuming I'm arguing for the system as it stands. The government should renegotiate the bills and provide a more efficient way of paying for and administering healthcare to the people that dosent involve going to the ER for an infection. Forced on people? Who is forced in to getting help?

Ah okay, just looked at that and thought "it has to be almost a decade+ ago."

That's not where I'm getting at. You said:


When it's exactly that.

To say the PC crowd is the reason for Trumps rise is to say it is the reason for racism, racism has been a problem before PC and I don't even see how the two are related. The population felt they had Been wronged throughout the years and the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction.
 
You pay taxes and you can go to the doctor without paying a copay. I pay taxes and I have to pay a $500 copay.
That's not true. I have medicare, and basic deductible for any procedure and/or hospital stay is 20% of the total cost of the stay/procedure. Thankfully, the US Government offers extra help for those who can't afford basic medical necessities like prescription drugs, emergency room stays, and so on without the need to go into your pocket.

That said, I know that my medical care has to come from somebody's pocket, and while it isn't mine, I don't assume that because I don't pay for it, that it is fully solvent by the Government either. Eventually it will collapse under its own weight.
 
To say the PC crowd is the reason for Trumps rise is to say it is the reason for racism, racism has been a problem before PC and I don't even see how the two are related. The population felt they had Been wronged throughout the years and the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction.
It's not racism that they're chanting for, it's the problems Trump is saying. Illegal immigration, terrorism, and a multitude of other reasons.

Every time there is a presidential election, you hear these promises whisk by and capture peoples attention. However, this is the year someone has said it in different light, and it has caught the select crowds attention and they are planning to ride it all the way to Washington.
 
That's not true. I have medicare, and basic deductible for any procedure and/or hospital stay is 20% of the total cost of the stay/procedure. Thankfully, the US Government offers extra help for those who can't afford basic medical necessities like prescription drugs, emergency room stays, and so on without the need to go into your pocket.

That said, I know that my medical care has to come from somebody's pocket, and while it isn't mine, I don't assume that because I don't pay for it, that it is fully solvent by the Government either. Eventually it will collapse under its own weight.
My copay is ER copay is $500

It's not racism that they're chanting for, it's the problems Trump is saying. Illegal immigration, terrorism, and a multitude of other reasons.

Every time there is a presidential election, you hear these promises whisk by and capture peoples attention. However, this is the year someone has said it in different light, and it has caught the select crowds attention and they are planning to ride it all the way to Washington.

Listen to what Trump says and that's exactly what they are chanting for.
 
OverYourHead.PNG
 
Claiming all Mexicans are rapists and drug dealers isn't going to solve illegal immigration as much as banning Muslims is going to solve terrorism.
 
No, but people like to hear a new side of things to "woo" them into thinking it's actually going to happen this time.
Then it's only part racism instead of solely racism. Not every Trump supporter is racist but every racist is a Trump supporter. If Trump is what we get in response to the PC crowd then we are screwed because that plays directly in to the hand of them.
 
You cant regulate racism per say, theres always a way to do your racist thing discreetly the way i see it. THAT SAID, the US constitutional law, the congress and such makes a fascist dictator in the USA unlikely, our prison culture is on decline, and Trump has stated admiration for some muslims. I dont see any major reasons for concern. All fascist policies in USA need 66% majority to start violating civil rights the way i see it. Some 66% majorities recently include DOMA, we also can see it was abolished after 20 years. We might vote to register evangelicals, or jews, or arabs. But it would probably be abolished with time.

Remember that each action against such and such group required 66% majority to deny a new civil right. Thats HARD to get and no guarantees the SCOTUS wont over rule it.
 
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So because I disagree with someone that means I'm not questioning my own beliefs and I lack insight. Right.
Is because you disagree with someone without giving a proper elaboration of the disagreement, sure you can say "I disagree" and that's valid, but you can't say someone is wrong and then attribute your opinion as a right one, because that's not how opinion works.

You say "A group is worse than group B" but you don't elaborate, your preconceptions are different from others so when you claim something that is affected by biases you don't acknowledge that such biases exists, because you are unaware of the preconception, see the problem?

There are individual cases, for example "Trump is worse than Jeb Bush", this is true but the underlying concept is that both are bad, so there are no middle grounds of further discussion if you operate under this base logic, the problem is not determining which one is worse, but get to the point that both are bad. Why? because the conception of Jeb Bush being bad is not contemplated under the banner of Trump being worse. This happens because you are trying to convince people Trump is bad, but you are failing to see that Jeb Bush is bad also, hence the problem, hence the remark.
What flaw? Gun rights are constitutionally guaranteed and that constitutional guarantee was recently interpreted and affirmed by the Supreme Court. Americans have a right to keep and bear arms and thus far have been willing to accept the consequences of that right because they feel that the benefits of gun ownership and the concept of freedom it's inevitably associated with, outweigh the costs. Foreign born peoples have no constitutional rights and no right to automatic entry into the United States and Congress has the power to change who is allowed into the country, how many, when etc.

Yet, I fail to see how in a civilized world attack weapon play a part on society other than retaliation.

My biggest gripe with the US constitution (in my opinion it is flawed on a fundamental point) is that it actively permits all population to be armed, the US constitution was formed under the ideas of freedom for each individual and the ability of said individual to protect it. This in turn is well received in times of civil turmoil as it means that any member of the states has the right to defend itself and the constitution against potential invaders (such as Great Britain defending its colony, or southern states, or the war with Mexico).

The problem is that is based on a paranoic idea of constant threat (you know, like the 9/11 one), in which all US population must have at all times a way of deterrence in case their constitutional rights are threatened. This is why guns exists, and why their use was largely promoted (like in the wild west). The problem with this is that in itself you create an industry which produces, distributes and sells guns, and since US population is pretty big, and every American has the right to have a weapon it means that is a huge market.

Having a market largely based on something that has the same level as a convenience will mean that a portion of the economy will largely depend on said convenience (gun), and when production is larger than local demand export is required, hence why the US is the prime seller of weapons around the globe.

So you have after certain time with no internal conflict which generates overpopulation, you have a large portion of the population reaching the poverty line, and you have guns (a combination that can't be good if you factor in gangs), overpopulation also means that the number of mentally unstable will increase, which means that potential assailants will increase. Places like the EU and the UK do not have this necessity because it is assumed that the military will take the role of defending such liberties as they are the armed forces established by constitution, in the US case both of the overlapping over the presumption that "One day we need to defend ourself from our own military", which is more anarchy than democracy.

There is a very thin line between anarchy and freedom, weapons that are designed to protect one will end up encouraging the other. You can't take away guns because a lot of people made their livelihood based on that, and people actually see the gun as an icon or contemplation item which can't be taken away from them (this is analogue to the concept of the AK-47 being a freedom fighter gun, ironically).

If you have the whole world operating under this idea, you will end up in something like the middle east, you have general population which is armed to the teeth, religion nutjobs taking control of significant parts of the population and basically lawless areas that governments or international organization can't control because of particulars having the fighting power to counter or diminish such institutions.

Example of this in the US, it will be a lot easier for the police to apprehend people rather than kill them if said people didn't had the means to retaliate against them, police is there to reinforce the law but the constitution is there to give the felon the capacity of counter the police force with lethal force, meaning that police is forced to retaliate with an equal lethal force. This idea is not acceptable in any modern society yet the US encourages its existence, and is based under this banner.

You can be responsible person with guns in this world, you will have a rightful way of having it, but it doesn't apply to the rest, not to the people who with Trump and their ideologies which will see refugees as potential invaders and the gun as a deterrent.
IMO you are presenting a false dichotomy as an unquestionable truth and are unwilling to question your belief in this false dichotomy.
Here is where it falls down, there is no such thing as an unquestionable truth since biases exists, I question my own beliefs because there should be a point equilibrium between Side A and Side B on a discussion, because regardless of opinions on a discussion there is a common ground between the two sides that demonstrate a general idea about the discussion.
 
The argument put forth by @McLaren isnt really a solid one. Trump's rise has nothing to do with the PC culture, but all to do with the fact there is still a huge segment of the religious and conservatives who see things as us vs them. Instead of looking at the system that refuses to give them healthcare and education they look to the powerless in the country as taking what is theirs.
It's not an argument to begin with. Trump's entire popularity since his campaign started has been from the Build a wall for the Mexicans to now Ban the Muslims, and all sorts of wacky comments inbetween. Beneath all that horrific speech is a base in which Trump's supporters are behind him on; he's not afraid to be the bad guy & be politically incorrect. The only reason he even remains relevant are because of these sadistic comments as the media doesn't even try to highlight anything else from him. He's nothing more than a running gag on TV whilst the polls show he legitimately has a very strong backing from Americans who don't like the current trend of trying not to offend anybody with a simple comment.
Disclaimer: I'm not talking about your personal position, I know this post doesn't mean you actually support Trump. I doubt you do and I'm not calling you a supporter of him. I'm not talking about your ideas specifically so much as the general way his campaign has been portrayed and talked about.

I am really not a fan of characterizing Trump as a reaction to a vaguely defined "PC trend". If Trump is supposedly the proportional response then I think that says more about him and his supporters than about any sort of political correctness. The discourse on Trump (and a lot of topics on this board) really smacks of the South Park "there's 2 sides, and they're both crazy!" idea. There's not really a reasoned middle ground here between the status quo and "wall off Mexico and create a registry of muslims". Donald Trump isn't the equally crazy counterpart to Bernie Sanders. The reasoned counterpoint to "consider not using slurs or sexist language" isn't "be as incendiary as you want because free speech and the constitution".

I get that there's a lot of anti-establishment movements in western countries these days, but just because there's issues with the establishment doesn't mean any anti-establishment movement is a good thing. It's pretty easy to envision a world where anti establishment politicians like Trump are far worse for the world than Obama or Clinton (or Romney or Bush v. 2.0/3.0)
You have to understand that Trump's supporters aren't agreeing with everything he's saying. He is not the ideal response to this current wave of not offending anyone (because all this year have been articles of people getting upset over the stupidest little thing), but the fact remains he's the only candidate out there who goes against the agenda. His continued focus on American security remains a strong point for him, and because he comes across as the complete opposite of Obama's stance, he gathers even more followers. I don't agree with how Trump spreads his message, but I admire his ability to speak his mind. I like that he's not afraid of being labeled. If he would change how he addresses his beliefs & came a little more down to earth, I'd probably vote for him.

Until then, I just enjoy watching him piss certain people off & the liberals using anything he says as ammo against him when he just doesn't care. He's so goddamn good at looking like an internet troll that the conservatives consider him a plant by the Democrats. The conspiracy around this man can be fascinating.
 
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It's not an argument to begin with. Trump's entire popularity since his campaign started has been from the Build a wall for the Mexicans to now Ban the Muslims, and all sorts of wacky comments inbetween. Beneath all that horrific speech is a base in which Trump's supporters are behind him on; he's not afraid to be the bad guy & be politically incorrect. The only reason he even remains relevant are because of these sadistic comments as the media doesn't even try to highlight anything else from him. He's nothing more than a running gag on TV whilst the polls show he legitimately has a very strong backing from Americans who don't like the current trend of trying not to offend anybody with a simple comment.
I agree with you 100%, and while I agree with some elements of being politically correct( don't call people the N word with the ER unless you are friends, same goes with the F word that refers to gays) I often feel like it is a symptom and not a cause. I'm in the camp of waiting for the PC BS to calm down because all it is, is a massive overreaction to the racism and prejudice thinking and behavior throughout the years. When the dog has no bones to bury he chases the mailman.
 
Yet, I fail to see how in a civilized world attack weapon play a part on society other than retaliation.

My biggest gripe with the US constitution (in my opinion it is flawed on a fundamental point) is that it actively permits all population to be armed, the US constitution was formed under the ideas of freedom for each individual and the ability of said individual to protect it. This in turn is well received in times of civil turmoil as it means that any member of the states has the right to defend itself and the constitution against potential invaders (such as Great Britain defending its colony, or southern states, or the war with Mexico).
You seem confused. The Federal Government maintains a standing army to ward off attacks from Great Britain and Mexico.

The problem is that is based on a paranoic idea of constant threat (you know, like the 9/11 one), in which all US population must have at all times a way of deterrence in case their constitutional rights are threatened. This is why guns exists, and why their use was largely promoted (like in the wild west).
Again, not sure how anyone can be so confused.

The 2nd Amendment to the Constitution enumerates the individuals right to keep and bear arms. The Feds maintain the standing army to respond to 9/11 attacks.

The problem with this is that in itself you create an industry which produces, distributes and sells guns, and since US population is pretty big, and every American has the right to have a weapon it means that is a huge market.

Having a market largely based on something that has the same level as a convenience will mean that a portion of the economy will largely depend on said convenience (gun), and when production is larger than local demand export is required, hence why the US is the prime seller of weapons around the globe.
Another rather incoherent stream - the US sells arms to other countries governments. If an individual company exports guns they manufacture, it will be to countries that permits civilian ownership.

Or are you somehow suggesting that US gun companies are exporting millions of illegal gun around the world?

If the latter, this s utter rubbish.

Now Italy, Israel, Ukraine, Germany, China, Philippines and Belgium all export hundreds of thousands of gun sto the USA for civilians to buy.

That's right - even Belgium sells guns to US civilians. Crazy isn't it?

So you have after certain time with no internal conflict which generates overpopulation, you have a large portion of the population reaching the poverty line, and you have guns (a combination that can't be good if you factor in gangs), overpopulation also means that the number of mentally unstable will increase, which means that potential assailants will increase. Places like the EU and the UK do not have this necessity because it is assumed that the military will take the role of defending such liberties as they are the armed forces established by constitution, in the US case both of the overlapping over the presumption that "One day we need to defend ourself from our own military", which is more anarchy than democracy.
Out of the above, the only thing that was remotely legible was the last sentence.
What a concept - being able to ward off a military government gone rogue on its own people.

I bet there are a number of your South American neighbours that wish they had armed civilians that could hold off those pesky military dictatorships.

There is a very thin line between anarchy and freedom, weapons that are designed to protect one will end up encouraging the other. You can't take away guns because a lot of people made their livelihood based on that, and people actually see the gun as an icon or contemplation item which can't be taken away from them (this is analogue to the concept of the AK-47 being a freedom fighter gun, ironically).

If you have the whole world operating under this idea, you will end up in something like the middle east, you have general population which is armed to the teeth, religion nutjobs taking control of significant parts of the population and basically lawless areas that governments or international organization can't control because of particulars having the fighting power to counter or diminish such institutions.
Say what?

Example of this in the US, it will be a lot easier for the police to apprehend people rather than kill them if said people didn't had the means to retaliate against them, police is there to reinforce the law but the constitution is there to give the felon the capacity of counter the police force with lethal force, meaning that police is forced to retaliate with an equal lethal force. This idea is not acceptable in any modern society yet the US encourages its existence, and is based under this banner.
Not sure where you got the idea that the Constitution gives the felon the capacity to counter police. At the point the fugitive felon is committing crimes. With or without the Constitution that person would have been armed - he is after all a criminal. That's what they do, break laws.

You can be responsible person with guns in this world, you will have a rightful way of having it, but it doesn't apply to the rest, not to the people who with Trump and their ideologies which will see refugees as potential invaders and the gun as a deterrent.
Wow - that's one of the most bizarre leaps I have ever seen - you went from because guns are Constitutional and Trump says until we can vet them it would be wise to stop muslim refugee migrations to US, to civilians will use guns to kill refugees.

Seriously?
 
My copay is ER copay is $500
You missed my point. By generalizing that some people don't have to pay a copay is blatantly false. Eventually someone will have to pay down the line for "free" health care that someone else will eventually receive, that is my point.
 
I don't really care about free health care because we all know it's not going to happen, and there is no such thing as free.

BUT, when you visit the ER or have a simple procedure done, it shouldn't put you in debt beyond your control. And that is the true problem.
 
BUT, when you visit the ER or have a simple procedure done, it shouldn't put you in debt beyond your control. And that is the true problem.

...ironically caused by people who don't want to pay for the service. People have insurance that covers routine crap (including ER visits for things like stitches, etc.) because they think it's icky to consider paying for health care when they need it. As a result, they have no idea what it costs. As a result, the ER jacks up the price to negotiate with the insurance company, and the customer doesn't care about that.

Suddenly, when you don't have health insurance, the ER bills look insane. All it would take is for everyone in the ER to say "How much does that cost? Do I need that? Do I need the doctor to do that? Can I do that at home?"
 

US gun companies exporting illegal arms is NOT the same as US Government getting involved in world events.

You do not seem the understand the concept of private enterprise - US gun manufacturers are not the CIA or the Government.

So again :
Or are you somehow suggesting that US gun companies are exporting millions of illegal gun around the world?

If the latter, this s utter rubbish.
 
High irony coming from someone who's idea of an invitation to examine my own beliefs is to infer that I am lacking imagination, foresight, intellectual insight, small minded, etc.

If you inferred any of that, that's on you. As for my part, I didn't imply anything. I was just pointing out that responding to me as if my concern was actually about the fedoras was a pretty obvious case of you dodging the question.

In the interest of ending the nonsense and getting back on point, let's revisit what the question actually was. @HELLAFLUSH240SX pointed out a pretty obvious contradiction in current mainstream conservative thought. Namely, that:

1. When a very, very small minority of Muslims commit acts of terrorism, it's prudent to suspect all Muslims of being terrorists. In fact, we should consider barring them from our country altogether.

2. When a very, very small minority of American gun owners go on killing sprees, it's unfair to generalize all gun owners as possible mass murderers. Any attempts to enact stricter gun control would be an undue infringement of their rights.

Notice how in scenario 1 it's okay that all should suffer due to a few bad apples, but in scenario 2 it's unthinkable? I think I'll stick with "logical inconsistency," unless you have a compelling justification that you haven't shared yet.
 
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