Porsche 991 Information Released

[Stotty]

I hope you're right because I don't want to have PDK because it is fiscally cheaper.

How much is a new GTS in Europe in a decent spec (GTS interior etc)? UK is c.£115k, which would be c.€130k, but I think we're a bit cheaper due to fx rate decline last 2 years not being fully priced in by Porsche.

If they are €140ish, you're only swallowing another 1.3% going for a manual... surely this isn't a barrier?

The annual road tax difference is less than a tank of super unleaded

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Personally if I was buying a non-GT Porsche I very much doubt I'd get a PDK. I've never driven a PDK-equipped car, of course, so I can't say for sure, but I think you all know that I'm very much a fan of manual gearboxes. My view is that if you're going to spend that much on a car then it should be something you can love and enjoy, and so you should choose the gearbox that's your personal preference. I'd have said something different regarding the old Tiptronic units but the PDK and manual cars are both excellent and you won't suffer much in resale either way. If I had to guess what spec would be better for resale I'd guess it'd be a manual, since they're much rarer and so certain people like myself and kikie will seek them out. I'd also probably suggest a more interesting colour than the usual black/grey/silver/white for the same reason.

 

[Stotty]

PDK vs Manual...

1st time I drove a 991GT3 (with PDK) I thought it was amazing... but the car itself was amazing, and there was so much going on it was hard to comprehend the various elements of the experience. I'm sure most people would have their 30 minute 991 test drive (GTS or cooking 991 would be similar), come away feeling the same, and end up ordering a PDK.

However, after driving it more, and the novelty of the amazing engine, performance, handling, steering, etc had worn off, it became clear to me that for road driving at least, losing the physical action of changing gear made the car less interactive, and less enjoyable to drive. PDK is amazing when you're fully on it, but when driving more sensibly a manual is a much nicer tool... and with the level of performance all 991's have now you'll spend much more time at sensible speed than fully on it.

As a counter point...

Couple of weekends ago I had my 1st proper drive in my brother-in-laws DB11, which has an 8 speed auto. Full chat down narrow b roads, and a fast cruse on some A roads. In this car, an auto 'box makes much more sense... it's heavier than a GT3, slower in it's reactions, less of a sports car. I don't think a manual 'box would suit it at all.

 

[McLaren]

PDK vs Manual...

1st time I drove a 991GT3 (with PDK) I thought it was amazing... but the car itself was amazing, and there was so much going on it was hard to comprehend the various elements of the experience. I'm sure most people would have their 30 minute 991 test drive (GTS or cooking 991 would be similar), come away feeling the same, and end up ordering a PDK.

However, after driving it more, and the novelty of the amazing engine, performance, handling, steering, etc had worn off, it became clear to me that for road driving at least, losing the physical action of changing gear made the car less interactive, and less enjoyable to drive. PDK is amazing when you're fully on it, but when driving more sensibly a manual is a much nicer tool... and with the level of performance all 991's have now you'll spend much more time at sensible speed than fully on it.

As a counter point...

Couple of weekends ago I had my 1st proper drive in my brother-in-laws DB11, which has an 8 speed auto. Full chat down narrow b roads, and a fast cruse on some A roads. In this car, an auto 'box makes much more sense... it's heavier than a GT3, slower in it's reactions, less of a sports car. I don't think a manual 'box would suit it at all.

Props to Aston, though. I definitely thought they would've killed off the manual years ago as most of their cars seem more heavily built for being an executive luxury coupe (like the Continental or S-Class coupe) than a raw sports car.

 

[kikie]

How much is a new GTS in Europe in a decent spec (GTS interior etc)?

If they are €140ish, you're only swallowing another 1.3% going for a manual... surely this isn't a barrier?

No, it isn't.

The annual road tax difference is less than a tank of super unleaded

Personal configuration, official price: 135,362.70 EUR. Independant Porsche dealer price, between: €125,887.3 - € 123,180

 

[Stotty]

Personal configuration, official price: 135,362.70 EUR. Independant Porsche dealer price, between: €125,887.3 - € 123,180

8% discount is amazing. You might get a set of free mats in the uk lol

 

[kikie]

8% discount is amazing. You might get a set of free mats in the uk lol

Official Porsche dealer discount is around 3,5%.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

For me it would depend on the purpose of the vehicle. Personally I would always prefer the PDK (VAG makes some great dual clutch transmissions). But for resale I might be willing to go manual if I weren't planning to use the car often.

The 911 is such a fascinating platform to me, and I think this is a good example of why. It can be so many things to different people.

I wouldn't feel bad speccing a modern Targa with PDK, and I like the Targa. Same with a Turbo. They're both more grand touring-oriented cars, and the PDK is an excellent example of dual-clutch gearboxes. Admittedly, this is also skewed by living in the city. But there's also practical reasons; if anybody else ever needs to drive it, that won't be an issue.

I can see the argument for both transmission options on the GT3, and props to Porsche for allowing the option on the .2 facelift.

I haven't driven a manual 911 yet, but that should change in the near future...

 

[Danoff]

The 911 is such a fascinating platform to me, and I think this is a good example of why. It can be so many things to different people.

Totally agree. It is a fascinating car because of how versatile and configurable it is.

@Stotty describes the PDK as kindof a gee whiz feature that distracts from the purity of driving (which to him, presumably includes the lever and the third pedal). To me, the manual transmission is a gee whiz feature that wears off and distracts from the purity of driving. At your best when operating a manual, you're a little less precise than a machine. I get that some people like to work hard at performing a task and get satisfaction from getting it right, but I don't get a lot of satisfaction in trying minimize the margin by how much I came in second to a machine. The PDK is just about the pinnacle of distilling driving down it's pure essence (which to me is independent of transmission), perhaps electric cars will one day make dual clutch look like a distraction as well. For now, electric vehicle weight prevents that.

I do like driving manuals though, especially in cars where there was no good alternative. So if you're going to tell me that the PDK costs me $40k in resale or something, I can "tolerate" a manual for $40k. No problem.

 

[kikie]

I like manuals, maybe because of my "need to be in control of many things" (which isn't always a good thing and I need to let go of it)?
A PDK, how good it is, takes away the pleasure of driving/controlling a car. A PDK messes with my driving style, even as a daily driver. I love every aspect of driving a car and that includes shifting manually, learning how to heel and toe.
A PDK is easier, is more efficient, is faster, is high technology but still, I prefer a low tech, less efficient, slow manual.

I remember, a couple of years ago when test driving the 991 GTS PDK, the salesman had put the car in sport mode. I was driving semi automatic (of course, what would you expect (rethorical question)), keeping the car within the speed limit. Suddenly the car shifted one or two gears down and went up to 4,000 RPM immediately. As a result, I practiced levitation for a fraction of a second. I didn'tknow what happened and after I came down from my levitation experience, I asked the salesman what just happened. I was doing 70kph at a low RPM, just cruising and I must have hit the gas pedal a little bit too much resulting the PDK to downshift without any warning and suddenly revving to 4000 RPM.
A PDK always messes with my driving style, and I hate that. I want to up and downshift even if it is less efficient. If there was a PDK option that is a fully manual and not semi automatic, I could consider a PDK.

Also, having practiced car control for 10 years, when the car spins and you use the clutch the force on all 4 wheels are equally divided, which is safer in case of spinning out and easier to control the spin. I have no idea how this works with a PDK. Is there a fail-safe that does the clutch thing automatically?

There are pro and cons for each system.

 

[kikie]

I have got this switch in my head and I turned it off for some reason. Turning it off means that I'm not going to pursue my dream of having a 911. I have no idea how long this switch is going to be turned off.
It feels as if a lot of pressure is lifted of my shoulders.

 

[McLaren]

That's uh, quite an oversight. GT2 RS 4.0 confirmed? @Stotty @SPhilli911

 

[SPhilli911]

That's interesting, where's the picture from?

 

[McLaren]

That's interesting, where's the picture from?

From an owner on Rennlist. He also shared a picture of his steering wheel missing carbon pieces, but that seems to be a supply and demand issue.

 

[Stotty]

LoL. I think they are the extractors for when the engine bay gets hot - my 996 has one.

Not great attention to detail on a £300k Car.

 

[kikie]

@kikie, @McLaren posted an incredible photo. What do you think, is there going to be a GT2RS with a 4.0 GT3RS motor?

Yes, I know, I saw it.
No, of course not. It's as @Stotty said >>> extractors. Don't get your hopes up.

 

[McLaren]

This?

So it seems someone on Rennlist finally has info on this.

The car that has been spied testing at Monza is, as we suspected, a track only limited edition GT2 RS of around 70 cars. Will be revealed at Rennsport.

This coming from a well-respected individual who gave hints about the Speedster earlier this year.

 

[Stotty]

Manthay modified GT2RS running 6.40 at the 'Ring.

Stock power... modifications limited to chassis and aero (but no real details yet of what's been done)... insane amounts of throttle used on the exits, often from before the apex

 

[homeforsummer]

A 6:40 is really going some, though it struck me recently that the 'Ring is a great illustration of diminishing returns in car performance, in that you need ten times the power to do a ~400-second lap as above, than to do a ~600-second lap, as that guy did in the diesel Citroen AX a few years back

 

[Carbon_6]

For those who think the GT2 RS is a bit tame, meet the Clubsport.

The car keeps the near 700hp twin-turbo 3.8L flat-six and PDK gearbox from the road version, but it's RWD, running slick tyres, and has accommodation for just one. 155kg lighter as well.

It'll also make your wallet €405,000/£357,000 lighter...

 

[McLaren]

Only 200 being made, looks like a car made for those who couldn't get the 935 racecar. Curious if there will be a demand for these given it's not street legal and the GT2 RS is already a formidable track weapon with the bonus of driving it home afterwards.

 

[Carbon_6]

Only 200 being made, looks like a car made for those who couldn't get the 935 racecar. Curious if there will be a demand for these given it's not street legal and the GT2 RS is already a formidable track weapon with the bonus of driving it home afterwards.

Wouldn't be surprised if they've all been accounted for already.

 

[kikie]

I wouldn't mind having this cockpit as my sim racing setup.

 

[McLaren]

Wouldn't be surprised if they've all been accounted for already.

I'm not so sure. It's slotted between the road car and the 935. The road car is the road car and the 935 is a Moby Dick-inspiration. This is a GT2 RS you can't use on the streets & there's no racing series for it. Porsche offered a limited edition PCA GT3 cup car this year (think GT3 RS Clubsport) of just 10 examples back in July and as of late October, 4 were still available. These kinds of race cars are hard sales.

 

[MisterWaffles]

This is a GT2 RS you can't use on the streets & there's no racing series for it.

Porsche made the 911 GT2 Clubsport specifically for the SRO GT2 class that's beginning next year.

 

[McLaren]

Porsche made the 911 GT2 Clubsport specifically for the SRO GT2 class that's beginning next year.

It may have specifically been built for that, but according to Porsche Motorsport, that's not fully confirmed yet.

Head of Porsche Motorsport Dr. Frank-Steffen Walliser confirmed talks with SRO, although hasn’t outright announced the car’s eligibility for 2019.

“For the upcoming years, our customers will not only race the GT2 RS Clubsport on track days but also at international motor racing events, said Walliser.

“We are currently holding very productive talks with the race organizer SRO.”

 

[ProjectWHaT]

Looks like the Speedster is finally nearing production

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1116225_2019-porsche-911-speedster-spy-shots-and-video

 

[kikie]

Looks like the Speedster is finally nearing production

Looks very strange. I'm not a fan.

 

[Stotty]

GT cars should have a fixed roof IMO.

Filling the rear seats gap like that makes the proportions look even more strange than a regular 991 convertible... makes it look mid engined, but with overhangs that are too long. I'm sure it will drive well enough, but it's an odd looking thing.

 

[kikie]

... makes it look mid engined, but with overhangs that are too long.

Exactly what I thought.