Porsche's Gran Turismo 7 Vision GT Car: New Details Coming in December

[Dave A]

There is nothing to confirm that if we didn't get the VGT cars they would be replced by an equal number of other cars instead, or any cars for that matter. Ultimately we are not privy enough to the games licensing agreements or amount of time and work spent on implementing each VGT car into the game. But from a purely technical standpoint, you could argue that if no work was being put into VGT cars, then that frees up time and manpower to focus on modeling other cars.

But how much work do the VGT cars take to include compared to other cars? How much of the modelling is provided by the manufacturers?

We know that most manufacturers are happy to provide CAD data for their cars, but CAD data is only useful as a reference. PD can't load up that CAD data and import it into the game.

Given VGT is a special project with the manufacturers, it's hard to say how much more suited to being imported directly into the game the data that Polyphony get directly at source is and how much more or less work they have to do when compared to creating any normal road car from scratch. I'd wager it's less work than creating a road car from scratch as the cars are designed specifically as a Gran Turismo tie in, so it would make sense the data from the manufacturers is provided in an agreed format and standard. But that's just a logical guess.

It stands to reason, the work that goes on to inclding the VGT cars into the games would likely be put to other uses if the VGT project had ended. But it's very difficult to quantify how much or what that work specifically would be.

 

[ArR29]

Whether they're popular is absolutely not irrelevant. If Polyphony added a bunch of cars to the game that absolutely nobody wanted to play with, that could rightly be described as hurting the franchise. That's time and resources that went into something that did nothing to improve the game.

To be clear, the VGTs are not that, some people do want to play with them and the games are better for having them as opposed to nothing at all.

But the question can fairly be asked whether the current implementation of the VGT program is the best that Polyphony could be doing for the franchise and it's players. Writing it off as "it doesn't matter" is just refusing to look at it critically, there are ways in which the VGT program doesn't seem to fit with Polyphony's explicit or implicit goals for Gran Turismo. That it has some positives doesn't mean that the negatives shouldn't be considered, it just means that all aspects should be taken into account when discussing the matter.

How is diversifying your car list is hurting the players and considered as negative? It's always good having multiple of options to drive. Why limit the player on conventional cars when these fictional cars have been part of Gran Turismo's DNA ever since. The VGT program certainly fits with PD's goal for Gran Turismo, denying that is just revisionism.

The most viewed VGT car on youtube has 48million views, it's a good marketing strategy for PD and the manufacturers.

 

[Imari]

How is diversifying your car list is hurting the players and considered as negative?

Diversification in and of itself is not by definition a positive. You have to diversify in a way that adds to the game. Adding extra content is usually a positive, but it's possible to add content that makes the game worse.

Adding Twisted Metal cars with guns and rockets to Gran Turismo would be diversification, but it would make Gran Turismo a worse game. Not because people wouldn't enjoy it, but because it goes against the design goals and playstyle that Gran Turismo is trying to establish.

But even sticking within reasonable bounds for what gets added to the game in the name of diversification, I'd argue that it's still more complex than more = better. Because the game is not just single cars hotlapping, the idea is also to enable interesting races with other cars.

Say we take a simple example of a game with only 10 different cars in it. There are a number of ways one could choose these 10 cars, but let's just label a few for the sake of easy discussion.

1. 10 cars all of similar performance that can race together enjoyably in a single class.
2. 2 groups of 5 cars, each group containing cars of similar performance to race together.
3. 2 groups of 3 cars and 1 group of 4 cars, each group containing cars of similar performance to race together.
4. 10 completely different cars, all of wildly different performance and none of which race together well.

I'd say that both options 1 and 4 are bad. Option 1 is fine competitively, but it's kind of boring in terms of diversity. You've got 10 "different" cars, but their performance is all similar and so they can't be that different. Option 4 has the opposite problem, the driving experience is wildly different but the cars cannot be raced together fairly.

From the perspective of someone trying to create both good gameplay and a diverse driving experience, they're going to lean towards options 2 and 3, which have limited diversity and also some decent competitive options. That's the game Gran Turismo is trying to create, and that's why more diversity is not always good for the game. Sometimes you just need to not split your roster between too many competitive classes.

It's always good having multiple of options to drive. Why limit the player on conventional cars when these fictional cars have been part of Gran Turismo's DNA ever since. The VGT program certainly fits with PD's goal for Gran Turismo, denying that is just revisionism.

Right, and I feel like you still think I'm arguing for removing VGTs and replacing them with nothing. That has never been my position. To repeat myself, I think the VGT program is a good idea done badly. I would like to see it removed and replaced with something that does the same idea better. I like the idea, I think the execution has been mediocre.

The VGT program as a general concept fits in Gran Turismo - concept cars have been part of the games since the first one. Fantasy cars have not, until the Nike One 2022. Which was arguably cute and fun as a one off, but at some point I think it's a fair question of whether these completely imaginary "concept" cars which mostly aren't related to any sort of real world consumer project or product and a lot of the time are just "who can build the fastest imaginary race car" are actually adding as much to the game as something more "realistic" and consumer focused.

To my mind, Gran Turismo took off as the game where you could drive and modify relatively ordinary, everyday cars. That was what set it apart, and it was cool. It wasn't stuffed full of supercars like Need for Speed. As it grew, it added in lots of weird, rare and unusual cars, which was how it started developing that reputation as a car encyclopaedia. Having a strong list of past and present cars, reaching into the future is a natural next step.

But for me, I feel that it needs to be rooted in reality just as much as the past and present cars. I don't think that most of the last dozen or so fantasy race cars meet that bar. We used to have hypothetical race car versions of existing cars, like the old FTO LM or Cerbera LM, but most of these aren't that. Few of them are likely to evolve into something that goes on sale, they're purely design and marketing exercises.

I think the game would be better served with cars that are more based on the future of automotive engineering as it applies to cars that might actually be driven by real humans, rather than these corporate marketing abominations.

The most viewed VGT car on youtube has 48million views, it's a good marketing strategy for PD and the manufacturers.

No argument there. That's good for them. I'm neither PD or a manufacturer though, I'm just someone who plays the games. How is this ridiculous hypercar the best choice for the player over anything else they could have made?

 

[Muller_cj]

They also don't magically get licensed.

Actually no, he didn't say that.

With the example of a real GT3 car, he said something like that would take six months, but it could take a year to make fictional GT3 car like the RCZ which has no real-world version.

I happen to know this with great certainty, because he was speaking to me when he said it:


It really doesn't unless you think licences happen by magic.

For that matter, VGTs take considerably less time than almost anything else to make, because there is no car to scan. PD get the digital CAD files right from the manufacturer. They're the easiest (relatively speaking) cars to produce - while the fictional Gr3 cars are the biggest time sink of all.

And even taking that into consideration, in the last four years there have been five VGTs in total added to the game. All the rest came from GT Sport, plus the seven added between GT6 and GTS (some of which ought to have been in GT6 anyway).


We're not talking about a modelling team being too busy to make models of real cars (that they don't have the licence to include anyway) because of Vision GT. No VGT is taking the place of a real car you could have had instead. It's taking the place of... nothing.

I disagree,

I`m quiet aware on how licences work and how the automotive industry works, as I work within NPD, in the automotive industry, from what I have been told by friends who work on this side of the business, we now have a small team who`s only Job is to deal with Licences is that, the particular license the have with us, is for our entire IP list, it is possible to license individual IPs but cost prohibitive, I don`t see why any other Major Manufacturer would be different.

Its quicker to scan, then it is to work from CAD files, we scan parts many times a day now, because its quicker (and accurate enough to be within our working tolerances) then OMM and CAD comparison,

They had issues interpolating our CAD files, and there was some disquiet among higher ups, on how the car handled in game, in front of an audience, hence why another version of the VGT is been introduced into GT7 as a long tail version.

PD were also offered access to the Legacy Museum, during the VGT project but seemed disinterested.

It is not because they have run out of IP Licences, its a choice, you can choice to put resources into a fantasy car or you can put it in to an Iconic car, then we can argue over if it or not an Iconic Car

 

[wagnerFAM98]

It has been teased on the World Finals trailer. Looks like it's the same one we saw behind the Taycan on the GT7 Porsche trailer from September.

 

[Stephan]

 

[queleuleu]

Seems to be an electric car

 

[GBalao888]

Not sure if the folks at Porsche are using GT Sport, or an early access build of GT7.

 

[mastretta_mx]

It seems they built a 1:1 real model, hopefully it has some functional parts like with the Bugatti or the Volkswagen

 

[Lux Klonoa]

Not sure if the folks at Porsche are using GT Sport, or an early access build of GT7.

Most likely GT Sport, as it still has the black bars in replay mode and no "7" next to the GT logo.

 

[Famine]

This is the discussion thread for an article on GTPlanet:

Gran Turismo 7’s Porsche Vision GT Cover Car Teased Again​

The Porsche Vision Gran Turismo has made a couple of sneaky appearances in new media from both Porsche and Gran Turismo ahead of its grand unveiling at this weekend’s FIA Certified Online Championship World Finals event...

 

[JD_18]

Looks awesome

 

[Ramosis]

At the end of the video: What racetrack is that?

 

[mastretta_mx]

At the end of the video: What racetrack is that?

This one? Is Spa

 

[RACECAR]

It seems they built a 1:1 real model, hopefully it has some functional parts like with the Bugatti or the Volkswagen

I would hope it is going off VAG's track record with the VGTs. But then that is the chance its just a pretty roller Like the Lambo V12 VGT, which was abit of a disappointment.

 

[ExoticMachines]

Boys and girls, I believe we are getting interior and even an open rooftop door for this baby. 👍

 

[Tetraturbo]

Now that I think about it, I never really saw the exhaust pipes of this VGT. Plus, it sounds just like the Taycan in this trailer, so it'll probably be an eletric car😔

 

[ExoticMachines]

Now that I think about it, I never really saw the exhaust pipes of this VGT. Plus, it sounds just like the Taycan in this trailer, so it'll probably be an eletric car😔

Don't look so sad, maybe, just maybe, they will give us the:

- Electric Version

- V12 Version

- V21 Version (just for you)


Or they will give us the swap engine feature for the Electric and Non-Electric versions. Or we get both cars, the Electric Version AND the Non-Electric Version. 👍

 

[Ramosis]

This one? Is Spa

Oh, thanks! How I missed that?

 

[Rotax2020]

Concept cars are so boring.

 

[05XR8]

Concept cars are so boring.

Got a link for that?

 

[Shingo_civic]

The Nurburgring looks glorious.It seems they ramped up the vegetation compared to the GTS version

 

[ExoticMachines]

So far, we have 2 VGT cars added to this upcoming game. The Lamborghini VGT and the Porsche VGT. I thought Porsche was going to add 2 VGT cars. What happen to the other Porsche VGT car???

 

[Famine]

So far, we have 2 VGT cars added to this upcoming game. The Lamborghini VGT and the Porsche VGT. I thought Porsche was going to add 2 VGT cars. What happen to the other Porsche VGT car???

No, Porsche was only going to add one VGT. The other car it was adding was the 917 Living Legend, which has already been seen in screenshots.

There's also the Jaguar Vision GT SV coming too.

 

[ExoticMachines]

No, Porsche was only going to add one VGT. The other car it was adding was the 917 Living Legend, which has already been seen in screenshots.

There's also the Jaguar Vision GT SV coming too.

Jaguar is doing another VGT car! 👍

 

[Kazuya720]

Wow nice look...but... uuhhhh electric-crap again...

 

[nickf1gr]

Todays notification...

 

[alex511]

Todays notification...
View attachment 1097320

I dont understand, what does he get in here?

 

[symaski62]

hello yuotube 4K confirmed

 

[mastretta_mx]

I dont understand, what does he get in here?

It is a link to the youtube reveal video with a programmed reminder