Possible vehicle purchase. *update*The 2000 BMW 323i is out!

[TheCracker]

Around about £35,000 for a CSL, so roughly $70,000 at the current exchange rates (and about 51,000 Euros), that was for a car with around 20k on the clock.

£30k will get you the similar looking CS - generally thought to be a great compromise between the regular M3 and the trick CSL.

 

[Tornado]

1992 Lexus SC400 Coupe:
http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/d...make_modelASC&end_year=&max_price=&cardist=25

Kinda high mileage considering what kind of car it is, I'd say. Lexus or not, I wouldn't trust a car in that segment if it had over a 100k on the clock. Its a touch overpriced, too, compared to a couple of other cars in this list.

1990 MB 190E w/2.6L 6cyl:
http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/d...make_modelASC&end_year=&max_price=&cardist=25

Will never, ever break on you. And it is quite cheap as well.

1993 BMW 318iS:
http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/d...make_modelASC&end_year=&max_price=&cardist=25

This is worse in every way than the original BMW you looked at. And this one is way overpriced as well. The 190 is much better as a potential car new. Used, and with that mileage gap? No contest.

1999 Saab 9-3:
http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/d...make_modelASC&end_year=&max_price=&cardist=25

Is, unless I'm mistaken, a somewhat high-boost turbocharged motor with far more than 85,000 miles on it.

2002 Mustang (*cough*V6):
http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/d...make_modelASC&end_year=&max_price=&cardist=25

Actually quite nice, but it is overpriced for the rest of the cars in this list. And most of the other cars are better screwed together.

1994 BMW 530i:
http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/d...=make_modelASC&end_year=&max_price=&cardist=0

As a rule I'd stay away from a car that has unlisted mileage. That being said, it is quite nice and a way better deal than the 318 could ever be. Assuming the unlisted mileage isn't too high.

1997 BMW Z3:
http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/d...=make_modelASC&end_year=&max_price=&cardist=0

I can't see that being particularly usable, and it has a high price. It looks like quite a nice car, but I'd say save your money and get the 530 or 190 over this.

2001 Cadillac DeVille:
http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/d...=make_modelASC&end_year=&max_price=&cardist=0

Eeeewww. You're not serious about that piece of junk, are you?

2005 Crown Vic:
http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/d...=make_modelASC&end_year=&max_price=&cardist=0

2004 Crown Vic:
http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/d...=make_modelASC&end_year=&max_price=&cardist=0

Based on options list comparisons, milages comparisons and year comparisons (not to mention the price difference) I'd say the 2005 car would be comically more worth the price. But perhaps not over that of the 530i.


So overall my suggestion? The 530i or the 190E.

 

[Milliethemutt]

£30k will get you the similar looking CS - generally thought to be a great compromise between the regular M3 and the trick CSL.

I can vouch for that. My friend just replaced his M3 with a CS and it is unbelievably good (and with a proper gearbox too). It was £32k though.

 

[JCE]

I went and looked at these and more cars today and here's what I found out.

Bad news:
190E is way in bad shape.
The 530i is also in bad shape.
The Lexus SC400 is in surprisingly perfect shape but the place wouldn't let me make monthly payments--only weekly payments.
There was an S60 in decent shape inside and out, but the center console and 2 tires were quite worn.
The Crown Vics were sold.
The Z3 was in absolutely terrible shape.
I didn't like the Cadillac, even though it was in like new shape.
3-series was sold.
Saab was sold.
The Mustang wasn't in as good of shape inside as I would of liked.

The good news:
I found a car lot that does monthly payments with reasonable interest %, AND they don't require a huge down payment.

So here's the list of vehicles he's going to look for at his wholesaler:
1990-1995 Lexus SC400 (he says he has one about to be sent to his lot so this is probably what I'm getting)
1990-1996 Chevy Camaro (V8)
1990-1996 Pontiac Firebird/Trans-Am (V8)
1998-2000 Audi A4
1998-2000 Audi A6
1990-2000 Ford Mustang GT (V8)
1999-2005 Ford Crown Victoria (white, black, or dark grey)
1998-2002 Ford Contour SVT
1998-2000 Volvo S40
1998-2000 Volvo S60
1995-1998 Nissan 200SX SE-R
1995-1999 Nissan Maxima SE

 

[High-Test]

I can't really speak for the 1UZ-FE, as my '92 Lexus coupe was a 300.

But, If I'm not mistaken, it's the same engine in the first Gen LS400. If so, make sure the power steering pump isn't leaky, and check for residue on the alternator. If the pump leaks, it will drip fluid on and into the alternator, making you an unhappy Lexus owner. The motor should be good for 280k. If a 1UZ could stand up to 40,000 miles per year of driving an a LS 400, it ought to do the same in an SC.
Also, make sure all of the numbers on the speedometer and the rest of the instrument panel light up brightly. Getting the lights in the instrument cluster fixed is usually a pricey job.
If it's only got one metal tab on either headlight, be ready to replace the enclosure. They condensate like none other.

Where's .star. when you need him?

If it makes sense for you, go for it. 👍

EDIT: If you get it, I will be eternally jealous. It's beautiful. If the interior door panel breaks or fractures, good luck finding one. Especially in Gray.

 

[Tornado]

I'd say the Contour SVT or SC400 would be your nice bet (I'd say the Contour moreso). Everything else would be ghastly to insure (any of the V8 American cars or Audis), crap (S40, 200SX), or I don't know enough about them (Maxima). The Crown Vic and S70 (S60 launched in 2001) would be a safe bet, too, probably, but not over the Contour and SC400.

 

[Joey D]

Buy a Lincoln LS. That's all I'm going to say.

 

[JCE]

I can't really speak for the 1UZ-FE, as my '92 Lexus coupe was a 300.

But, If I'm not mistaken, it's the same engine in the first Gen LS400. If so, make sure the power steering pump isn't leaky, and check for residue on the alternator. If the pump leaks, it will drip fluid on and into the alternator, making you an unhappy Lexus owner. The motor should be good for 280k. If a 1UZ could stand up to 40,000 miles per year of driving an a LS 400, it ought to do the same in an SC.
Also, make sure all of the numbers on the speedometer and the rest of the instrument panel light up brightly. Getting the lights in the instrument cluster fixed is usually a pricey job.
If it's only got one metal tab on either headlight, be ready to replace the enclosure. They condensate like none other.

Where's .star. when you need him?

If it makes sense for you, go for it. 👍

EDIT: If you get it, I will be eternally jealous. It's beautiful. If the interior door panel breaks or fractures, good luck finding one. Especially in Gray.

Thanks for the awsome info! +rep There's a 75% chance that I'm getting an SC so I'll definately check those things out. I've been seeing the condensation in the headlights on EVERY one I've seen.

I'd say the Contour SVT or SC400 would be your nice bet (I'd say the Contour moreso). Everything else would be ghastly to insure (any of the V8 American cars or Audis), crap (S40, 200SX), or I don't know enough about them (Maxima). The Crown Vic and S70 (S60 launched in 2001) would be a safe bet, too, probably, but not over the Contour and SC400.

Audi's are actually quite cheap to insure. The older the "American V8" car the cheaper the insurance. I could get $80/mo full coverage on my 1990 Camaro V8. The Nissans won't be as cheap to insure, but they are super reliable (esp. Maximas). Having my choice I'd choose the SVT, Crown Vic, or the SC.

I need to update this topic and change my requirements since I've already had my credit pulled and know where I stand financialy as to what I can afford.

Buy a Lincoln LS. That's all I'm going to say.

I would but it is sadly out of my price range for one with low miles. I'll see if I can have the guy look for a cheap one--its still on my list. The insurance is almost as expensive as the BMW...

 

[1X83Z]

So overall my suggestion? The 530i or the 190E.

Nikasil, meet Alusil. Alusil, Nikasil. Alusil and Nikasil, meet engine replacement.

Never purchase that vehicle, unless it's an Alusil car.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M60

 

[Tornado]

Nikasil, meet Alusil. Alusil, Nikasil. Alusil and Nikasil, meet engine replacement.

Never purchase that vehicle, unless it's an Alusil car.

I understand that, but being that that particular car was developed relatively late in the M60s lifespan I assumed it would have a Alusil engine by default. Though I'm not sure what year BMW caught the problem with the engine, so I honestly am not sure.

 

[YSSMAN]

So here's the list of vehicles he's going to look for at his wholesaler:
1990-1995 Lexus SC400 (he says he has one about to be sent to his lot so this is probably what I'm getting)

I don't know much about them, but personally I'd be worried about replacement costs. Its not like a Corolla when you can go down to the scrapyard and pull a door handle off of any one and have it fit...

1990-1996 Chevy Camaro (V8)
1990-1996 Pontiac Firebird/Trans-Am (V8)

I'd stick to the Fourth-Gen (1993+) models over the later Third-Gen ones. I like the style better, they're more fuel efficient, and I believe them to be built better as well. I've looked at the early Forth-Gens numerous times, and you can save money on a Firebird Formula V8, but they're harder to find. Insurance rates aren't horrible, but they certainly aren't good either.

1998-2000 Audi A4
1998-2000 Audi A6

Check with Doug on his Audi, but given the VW rap on parts, and given this is an Audi, it isn't going to be cheap for anything. Common purchases will include the $20 VW/Audi-only engine coolant, silly-expensive OEM-replacement parts, etc. I'd check Edmunds or Consumer Reports (Yes, I still don't like them) for some consumer reviews if possible.

1990-2000 Ford Mustang GT (V8)

If you can afford the insurance, I don't really see a reason why not. Of course, I prefer the old 5.0L models, but thats just me. But I'd rather have an F-body anyway...

1999-2005 Ford Crown Victoria (white, black, or dark grey)

Of all the cars you've listed, I'm going to guess that this will be the cheapest to keep together in the long-run. They've essentially build the same car for decades, and it isn't as though parts are hard to come by. Fuel is expensive though. Our Town Car in Miami averaged a so-so 20 MPG over the entire trip.

1998-2002 Ford Contour SVT

This would probably be what I'd go for. I like the looks, I can dig the performance, and it certainly is an "under the radar" model for a lot of people.

What are SVT Focuses going for these days?

1998-2000 Volvo S40
1998-2000 Volvo S60

I dunno about these. They're kinda like the Audi products, but I really don't have any knowledge of the vehicles at all.

1995-1998 Nissan 200SX SE-R

I considered buying one of these before my Jetta, and if I recall they can be had for pretty cheap. Similar to the Contour, I really like the looks and the performance of the car, but I have no idea what the reliability is like. The one I looked at was quite nice, and if I recall the insurance rates weren't too bad. But, they're awfully plain on the inside, and if I remember, I didn't like the seats all that much...

1995-1999 Nissan Maxima SE

This would probably be my second pick behind the Contour. Simply put, I love these Maximas, and they were by far my favorite of any generation of the car. My Grandfather had a '99 SE, and that continues to be one of my favorite cars he has owned recently... They're fast, comfortable, look good, drive exceptionally well, and as I recall were screwed together quite well.

If you can find one with a stick, get it! If I could find one how I want it (white and tan with a stick on alloys, completely stock), I'd buy it.

 

[High-Test]

JCE-

I looked it up, it is most definitely the Toyota UZ series engine. They spent 400 milliondollars on developing it. a darn good investment IMO.

Most SCs tend to lose the quarter inch wide tabs that hold the glass against the headlight housing seal as time goes on and the hood is opened more and more frequently. I hope you don't get condensation. It's a blemish on an otherwise sexy car.
My headlight had these bars in it like those in a carpenter's level. Apparently, the headlights in my car leveled themselves. They are REALLY expensive. (dealer wanted @1200 to install a new one)

Search your feelings. You know you want to have NO traction in snow and ice. But, you live in Texas. It's not like that matters, anyway.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Like $30,000 USD expensive?

What's a REAL CSL run in Europe?

There are a few M3 CSLs for sale in the UK at the minute, £28,000-£35,000 depending on mileage and location. Of course, they're right-hookers.

 

[Pupik]

*updated 08-13-2007*

Below are the insurance rates of some of the vehicles I'm looking at. And I've revised the car list to what I can afford in both insurance premiums and actual car price.

Year -- Car -- Symbol -- 6 month premium price -- monthly payment
1990 Lexus SC400 -- 16 -- $599.50 -- $99.91/mo
1994 Lexus GS300 -- 21 - $1004.50 -- $167.41/mo

1990-1995 Lexus SC300/400 (he says he has one about to be sent to his lot so this is probably what I'm getting)

The 3.0L I6 GS is more expensive to insure than a 4.0L V8 SC? Huh?

Anyhow, I'll give an update on the perks and foibles of a GS or SC for you in a moment, I have to go to work. By they way, the Lexus SC didn't start production until 1991, as a '92 model.

 

[JCE]

I don't know much about them, but personally I'd be worried about replacement costs. Its not like a Corolla when you can go down to the scrapyard and pull a door handle off of any one and have it fit...

I'm not too worried really, as long as it lasts long enough for me to pay it off then its all good.

I'd stick to the Fourth-Gen (1993+) models over the later Third-Gen ones. I like the style better, they're more fuel efficient, and I believe them to be built better as well. I've looked at the early Forth-Gens numerous times, and you can save money on a Firebird Formula V8, but they're harder to find. Insurance rates aren't horrible, but they certainly aren't good either.

As long as its in good enough condition I really don't care which gen I get.

Check with Doug on his Audi, but given the VW rap on parts, and given this is an Audi, it isn't going to be cheap for anything. Common purchases will include the $20 VW/Audi-only engine coolant, silly-expensive OEM-replacement parts, etc. I'd check Edmunds or Consumer Reports (Yes, I still don't like them) for some consumer reviews if possible.

Cheap insurance speaks to me, Audi has cheap insurance. And as long as I get a turbo model with less than 85k miles or an NA engine I'll be alright.

If you can afford the insurance, I don't really see a reason why not. Of course, I prefer the old 5.0L models, but thats just me. But I'd rather have an F-body anyway...

Same as the F-body, I don't care which gen I get as long as its in decent enough shape.

Of all the cars you've listed, I'm going to guess that this will be the cheapest to keep together in the long-run. They've essentially build the same car for decades, and it isn't as though parts are hard to come by. Fuel is expensive though. Our Town Car in Miami averaged a so-so 20 MPG over the entire trip.

I remember the gas mileage when I had my P71, it was atrocious. But as far as reliability and the cheap to fix scale this is the probably the top runner.

This would probably be what I'd go for. I like the looks, I can dig the performance, and it certainly is an "under the radar" model for a lot of people.

A friend of mine had a 2000 Silver SVT and it was a freaking blast to drive. Definately a sleeper.

What are SVT Focuses going for these days?

Way too much damn money--plus insurance rates are way too high.

I dunno about these. They're kinda like the Audi products, but I really don't have any knowledge of the vehicles at all.

But, they're Volvos...the reliability is almost perfect.

I considered buying one of these before my Jetta, and if I recall they can be had for pretty cheap. Similar to the Contour, I really like the looks and the performance of the car, but I have no idea what the reliability is like. The one I looked at was quite nice, and if I recall the insurance rates weren't too bad. But, they're awfully plain on the inside, and if I remember, I didn't like the seats all that much...

I had a 1998 200SX SE-R and it was awsome. I do agree about being plain on the inside--afterall it is just a Sentra with 2 doors. They are quite fast stock.

This would probably be my second pick behind the Contour. Simply put, I love these Maximas, and they were by far my favorite of any generation of the car. My Grandfather had a '99 SE, and that continues to be one of my favorite cars he has owned recently... They're fast, comfortable, look good, drive exceptionally well, and as I recall were screwed together quite well.

The Maximas I had were brilliant, my mom still has the '96 GLE I gave her and it runs like its brand new.

If you can find one with a stick, get it! If I could find one how I want it (white and tan with a stick on alloys, completely stock), I'd buy it.

The 5spd Maximas are very hard to find. But they are quite quick stock, and that makes them very valuable.

JCE-

I looked it up, it is most definitely the Toyota UZ series engine. They spent 400 milliondollars on developing it. a darn good investment IMO.

Most SCs tend to lose the quarter inch wide tabs that hold the glass against the headlight housing seal as time goes on and the hood is opened more and more frequently. I hope you don't get condensation. It's a blemish on an otherwise sexy car.
My headlight had these bars in it like those in a carpenter's level. Apparently, the headlights in my car leveled themselves. They are REALLY expensive. (dealer wanted @1200 to install a new one)

Search your feelings. You know you want to have NO traction in snow and ice. But, you live in Texas. It's not like that matters, anyway.

What year SC did you have?

The 3.0L I6 GS is more expensive to insure than a 4.0L V8 SC? Huh?

Yup, you heard right. The SC300 is also cheaper than the GS300 as well. This may be a Texas thing, I don't know.

Anyhow, I'll give an update on the perks and foibles of a GS or SC for you in a moment, I have to go to work. By they way, the Lexus SC didn't start production until 1991, as a '92 model.

I just noticed that on Wiki, I gave the VIN of an SC400 (which I thought was a 1990) to my insurance company. Guess the price was for a '92? I'll change my list.

 

[High-Test]

I had a 1992 Diamond Pearl Metallic, abused ex-company car SC300. Every one of the 5,000 miles I put on it in seven months was glorious. Except the last one. And when my tire threw a belt. It was the 1,060th one built, too. The wiring harness, or something else very important, went boom. Had it not taken the abuse of being a company car for a year I'd probably still be driving it today.

 

[JCE]

Is the SC400 fast? And, what's the aftermarket like on that? When I get my Camaro built I may want to build up the SC.

 

[YSSMAN]

I seem to recall them once being referred to as the "Gentleman's Supra" or something to that effect... But I have no idea what that would mean to the performance of the vehicle overall. My guess is that it would be close to the benchmark vehicles of the era, say six-ish seconds to 60 MPH, top speed somewhere above 130 MPH, a comfortable but capable chassis, etc. I can imagine that just a change in tires would change the attitude of the car completely...

 

[Duke]

The wiring harness, or something else very important, went boom. Had it not taken the abuse of being a company car for a year I'd probably still be driving it today.

What, pray tell, did being a company car have to do with a wiring harness failure...? Harnesses are not normally considered a "wear and tear" item.

 

[High-Test]

What, pray tell, did being a company car have to do with a wiring harness failure...? Harnesses are not normally considered a "wear and tear" item.

Nothing, really, but everything inside was broken, and the car went neglected for 20,000 plus miles of driving. It didn't seem to idle right. The car wasn't willing to change the gear selection without unneccesary force being applied to the gear selector. The "TRAC" and ESC lights were peculiarly always on, no matter how many times the ESC Off button was selected. The fuse for that feature was oddly intact. Something shorted, and everytime the car sat for more than a day, the battery was drained of Electric potential. Sunday night was my "jumpstart" night. All of its problems were more to fix than it was worth, so I lived with them. I didn't mind jumping it every other week after it sat idle as long as it ran, drove, and still rode nicely.

Anyway, Before the car was a company car, it belonged to my mother, who babied it and everything on it worked. There were no dents, and the front fascia still had all of its original fiberglass.

The Harness blew up when my brother in law didn't ground the car when jumping it. Well, that was the ignition of a powder keg made up of various part failures. Some of the connections were badly oxidized, and the alternator snapped.
Like I said in my previous post, it may not have even been the harness. All I know is that a cloud of smoke was coming from under the fusebox and they were all intact. I could visibly tell that the boxier fuses hadn't severed, and I pulled all of the other ones. Granted, I did leave the really big cylindrical one unchecked.


I feel as though I'm hijacking this thread.

More later.. I've got to run.

THe 2JZ in the 300 has much more aftermarket potential than the 400, but there are a few nifty superchargers for the 4.0.

 

[Venari]

Since you like the Lincoln LS... here's my nutter gearhead view on it.

Find one. Buy it.

Start looking for a wrecked 2002 Jaguar S-Type R, or XJR/XKR and go buy the engine/gearbox, as much harness as you can, ECU, diff, and anything else you can get into a borrowed pickup. Dash instruments might be useful.

Transplant. (May need a new sports exhaust and a little patience.)

Mmmm, blown 400hp+ sleeper. Take it shopping and let your gran drive, or go to the dragstrip and scare a few pimped JDM owners.

(Am I correct in thinking there was never a factory supercharged LS?)

Venari (ex-Jaguar engineer.)

 

[JCE]

Since the 3.9L V8 is essentially a Jaguar engine wouldn't the intake+heads from an S-Type w/the 4.0L version bolt on? And thus be able to use the Eaton M112 supercharger from the Jag "R" models.

If I can get an LS in my price range from this car lot I would jump at the chance. I just don't want a V8 with tons of miles, unless the Jag V8 is reliable as a wood-burning stove.

 

[YSSMAN]

(Am I correct in thinking there was never a factory supercharged LS?)

Venari (ex-Jaguar engineer.)

I want to say that Ford's SVT devision built one, but it was never sold to the public. Personally speaking, I'd be more apt to just ripping a V8 out of a Mustang (like they should have...) and throwing it in there... But thats just me.

 

[Pupik]

Okay, it's been a busy day, sorry for the delay.

Both GS and SC problems to look for:

- ECM (engine computer) always go bad after 9-12 years on these cars. See if it's been done before. If it has over 150,000 miles, it probably has been replaced. They aren't cheap, about $800-1200.

- A/C repair is never cheap, usually involves pulling out the dashboard, in both cases. $1200-3000 at a Lexus dealer. Pray they've had A/C repairs before.

- Power front seats are expensive; make sure both operate (driver's seats always go first). On both, the seat track and motor assemblies can be $1500-2000, but if you can find a firm that repairs them, then you'll save some money. Also, some techs have told me that you can swap some motors out with other cars, making the parts findable in junkyards and such.

- Power steering pumps and power steering motors tend to go on these cars. Check for leaks and noises: Tug the steering wheel the way to one side and then the other and if you hear a groaning noise, then the pump is about to be history.

- Verify that the instrument cluster isn't flickering or completely dimmed out. It's a $1000-2000 repair depending on the model year. Some SC panels get off lucky, and just need a few bulbs. Just $80-100 for that.

- Front and rear bumpers have paint issues; SC's have peeling around the rear bumpers, the fronts tend to fade. Sometimes the factory authorized re-painting, other times, the customer may have had it done. GS bumper undercoatings tend to fade the paint, for some weird reason. Usually, you can buff it out or use a little wax and elbow grease. In both cases, if the owner was meticulous, then you probably won't see these paint problems.

- Trunk shocks always fail if over 10 years old; if you plan on using your trunk, buy a broom or stick of wood to hold it up, or you'll get hit in the head. I've heard that aftermarket installations are tough to find, but you can modify other brands of shocks to fit, I've heard. Lexus shocks are about $250-350. A helmet might be a cheaper alternative.

- Headlights always yellow on these cars, unless they've been replaced or always garaged. If one is yellow, and another one isn't that's an obvious sign the car's had a side impact. Sometimes, you can polish it out, and there's vendors out there that will make them look near-new for $100-200.

- Alternators tend to go on these cars at 10 years, just like any other car.

SC issues and notes:

- Shocks and struts wear out in 60,000 miles, a new set changes the handling and ride noticeably.

- Starter motors wear out quickly on the V8-engined cars; the labor is rather steep, since it's nestled inside the vee of the engine.

- Driver's and passenger door trim distorts. Probably because the door is very heavy, and people slam it. Black trim bezel around A/C vents is always cracked, doesn't affect much, but both types parts are very expensive, like $600-800.

- Because of "heavy door", window motors tend to go out; check both of them, make sure they don't go up or down too fast, and with not too much noise. If they seem to get slow when going back up, then the motor's about to go. If they go down too fast then the window regulator might be worn out.

- Seat leather on the driver's bottom cushion always has tears.

- A handful of 1992 models had recalls, I never encountered one. Some 1997-98 models had engine computer and/or starter recalls, but those were also very rare.

- A handful of 1995-1998 models have 5-speed manuals. But they're rare.

GS issues and notes:

- These cars have been known for overheating at 150,000 miles. Temp guages at halfway are common, but 3/4 and up are not. Keep an eye on the coolant. The guys at various Lexus forums that maintain the cars don't have any radiator problems, and I only saw them on cars with sporadic maintenance.

- Wood trim cracks on inside, buy the aftermarket stuff, unless you're a perfectionist.

- Steering effort is really light at slow speeds; it's normal. It builds up at higher speeds.

- 1993-1994 models have 4-speed transmissions, '95 and up have 5-speed autos (no manuals).

- 1997 models are literally rarer than Ferrari Enzos; about 160 were made. No joke.

- Front ball joint recalls on the 1993-1995 models (SW1 recall), replacement is free no matter what the mileage, unless it was already performed.

In passing:

Otherwise, they're tough motors, whether I6 or V8, just regular maintenance every 5000 miles. Timing belts every 7 years/90,000 miles (they don't really break unless the car's really old without replacement, or had over 120,000 miles, but with interference motors, don't take the chance).

If you go to a Lexus dealer, you can get a full service history for all repairs at any Lexus dealer, get recall info. It just takes a few moments. Ask them to go over items line-by-line, since their program (it's called Dealer Daily) just gives a rough caption of each line, it takes a little extra time for a complete breakdown of each complaint, cause, and correction for each line.

In your area, Sewell and Park Place Lexus are in a constant battle for supremacy. Use this to your advantage. You get good treatment, but you pay for it.

Otherwise, they’re solid cars. No commonplace electrical issues, emission issues (that would be later on), oil leaks, blowups, transmission issues if taken care of, smoking, excessive brake or tire wear, alignment issues, and people who've wrecked them lived to tell em they liked thier new car. If I remember correctly, Car & driver once called the SC 400 the “perfect luxocoupe”. That’s a lofty echelon of cars, since only the Accord, BMW M3, and the Porsche 959 have ever been considered perfect in C&D’s eyes.

The 1st-generation GS 300 didn’t win a lot of praise (it was a tad underpowered, overwieght, funny-looking, and overpriced…about $40,000 back then), but it filled a gap between the LS and ES 4-doors at the time. Me, I like mine. The 2JZ motor is never buzzy, doesn't whine, and it has a good bit of torque. Don't expect a speed demon, it's about 8.5 seconds to 60 mph, but it has lots of passing power at speeds above 30 mph. The grunt of the engine occurs at 3500 rpm, so it's not at the low-end, but it's not a late-blooming VTEC or 2ZZ-VVTi, either.

It’s a fairly unique car, I don’t see many where I live, you get Italian exterior styling with Japanese internals (although a German suspension would give it the trifecta it deserves). I also picked it up on the cheap.

 

[Venari]

Since the 3.9L V8 is essentially a Jaguar engine wouldn't the intake+heads from an S-Type w/the 4.0L version bolt on? And thus be able to use the Eaton M112 supercharger from the Jag "R" models.

If I can get an LS in my price range from this car lot I would jump at the chance. I just don't want a V8 with tons of miles, unless the Jag V8 is reliable as a wood-burning stove.

Bottom end is different - very different. Crank, rods, pistons, oil squirters under the crowns... and that's just the AJ34(SC) from the AJ33(NA), let along the LS engine... (which was, uh... AJ30/35?) The earlier AJ26S/27S are okay, but best go for the 2002-on engine.

 

[JCE]

I want to say that Ford's SVT devision built one, but it was never sold to the public. Personally speaking, I'd be more apt to just ripping a V8 out of a Mustang (like they should have...) and throwing it in there... But thats just me.

I heard of this prototype, they also supercharged a Thunderbird with the same 3.9L engine but never released it. But, for me I'd rather have the Jag V8 + S/C before I'd spend the extra money to fabricate mounts for the 4.6L modular. Though, the 4.6L does have a bit more appeal to me personally due to the fact that I am in love with that engine.

Okay, it's been a busy day, sorry for the delay.

Both GS and SC problems to look for:

- ECM (engine computer) always go bad after 9-12 years on these cars. See if it's been done before. If it has over 150,000 miles, it probably has been replaced. They aren't cheap, about $800-1200.

- A/C repair is never cheap, usually involves pulling out the dashboard, in both cases. $1200-3000 at a Lexus dealer. Pray they've had A/C repairs before.

- Power front seats are expensive; make sure both operate (driver's seats always go first). On both, the seat track and motor assemblies can be $1500-2000, but if you can find a firm that repairs them, then you'll save some money. Also, some techs have told me that you can swap some motors out with other cars, making the parts findable in junkyards and such.

- Power steering pumps and power steering motors tend to go on these cars. Check for leaks and noises: Tug the steering wheel the way to one side and then the other and if you hear a groaning noise, then the pump is about to be history.

- Front and rear bumpers have paint issues; SC's have peeling around the rear bumpers, the fronts tend to fade. Sometimes the factory authorized re-painting, other times, the customer may have had it done. GS bumper undercoatings tend to fade the paint, for some weird reason. Usually, you can buff it out or use a little wax and elbow grease. In both cases, if the owner was meticulous, then you probably won't see these paint problems.

- Trunk shocks always fail if over 10 years old; if you plan on using your trunk, buy a broom or stick of wood to hold it up, or you'll get hit in the head. I've heard that aftermarket installations are tough to find, but you can modify other brands of shocks to fit, I've heard. Lexus shocks are about $250-350. A helmet might be a cheaper alternative.

- Headlights always yellow on these cars, unless they've been replaced or always garaged. If one is yellow, and another one isn't that's an obvious sign the car's had a side impact. Sometimes, you can polish it out, and there's vendors out there that will make them look near-new for $100-200.

- Alternators tend to go on these cars at 10 years, just like any other car.

SC issues and notes:

- Shocks and struts wear out in 60,000 miles, a new set changes the handling and ride noticeably.

- Starter motors wear out quickly on the V8-engined cars; the labor is rather steep, since it's nestled inside the vee of the engine.

- Driver's and passenger door trim distorts. Probably because the door is very heavy, and people slam it. Black trim bezel around A/C vents is always cracked, doesn't affect much, but both types parts are very expensive, like $600-800.

- Because of "heavy door", window motors tend to go out; check both of them, make sure they don't go up or down too fast, and with not too much noise. If they seem to get slow when going back up, then the motor's about to go. If they go down too fast then the window regulator might be worn out.

- Seat leather on the driver's bottom cushion always has tears.

- A handful of 1992 models had recalls, I never encountered one. Some 1997-98 models had engine computer and/or starter recalls, but those were also very rare.

- A handful of 1995-1998 models have 5-speed manuals. But they're rare.

GS issues and notes:

- These cars have been known for overheating at 150,000 miles. Temp guages at halfway are common, but 3/4 and up are not. Keep an eye on the coolant. The guys at various Lexus forums that maintain the cars don't have any radiator problems, and I only saw them on cars with sporadic maintenance.

- Wood trim cracks on inside, buy the aftermarket stuff, unless you're a perfectionist.

- Steering effort is really light at slow speeds; it's normal. It builds up at higher speeds.

- 1993-1994 models have 4-speed transmissions, '95 and up have 5-speed autos (no manuals).

- 1997 models are literally rarer than Ferrari Enzos; about 160 were made. No joke.

- Front ball joint recalls on the 1993-1995 models (SW1 recall), replacement is free no matter what the mileage, unless it was already performed.

In passing:

Otherwise, they're tough motors, whether I6 or V8, just regular maintenance every 5000 miles. Timing belts every 7 years/90,000 miles (they don't really break unless the car's really old without replacement, or had over 120,000 miles, but with interference motors, don't take the chance).

If you go to a Lexus dealer, you can get a full service history for all repairs at any Lexus dealer, get recall info. It just takes a few moments. Ask them to go over items line-by-line, since their program (it's called Dealer Daily) just gives a rough caption of each line, it takes a little extra time for a complete breakdown of each complaint, cause, and correction for each line.

In your area, Sewell and Park Place Lexus are in a constant battle for supremacy. Use this to your advantage. You get good treatment, but you pay for it.

Otherwise, they’re solid cars. No commonplace electrical issues, emission issues (that would be later on), oil leaks, blowups, transmission issues if taken care of, smoking, excessive brake or tire wear, alignment issues, and people who've wrecked them lived to tell em they liked thier new car. If I remember correctly, Car & driver once called the SC 400 the “perfect luxocoupe”. That’s a lofty echelon of cars, since only the Accord, BMW M3, and the Porsche 959 have ever been considered perfect in C&D’s eyes.

The 1st-generation GS 300 didn’t win a lot of praise (it was a tad underpowered, overwieght, funny-looking, and overpriced…about $40,000 back then), but it filled a gap between the LS and ES 4-doors at the time. Me, I like mine. It’s fairly unique, I don’t see many where I live, you get Italian exterior styling with Japanese internals (although a German suspension would give it the trifecta it deserves). I also picked it up on the cheap.

I'd give you rep but it won't let me give you more. lol But that is alot of frankly super valuable information. I'm definately going to print all that stuff out when and if the shop gets an SC. Is there a preference between the I6 or V8? I want the V8--mainly because I prefer the sound, but I couldn't care less really as long as its reliable.

Now on to address a few points I'd like to know the following if/when you have the time:

• Where's the ECU located? And what do I look for to see if its been replaced?
• What's a good solution to SOLVE the yellowing of the headlights and or condensation WITHOUT having to garage or cover it?
• Any noises or things to listen/feel to see if the starter's about to go out?
• Have you replaced the window motor or regulator? I've replaced them in Nissans, Toyotas, Pontiacs, and Chevrolets...they weren't too difficult.
• I've noticed that some of the SC models have gold plated trim around the taillights...are there any body color replacements or can I simply just remove them safely? I can't stand gold plated trim and emblems of any sort.
• And on the power steering issue. I'm sure I can still drive the car without power steering like I can with other cars right? I don't really care whether or not a car has power steering.

Thanks again for the awsome info.

Bottom end is different - very different. Crank, rods, pistons, oil squirters under the crowns... and that's just the AJ34(SC) from the AJ33(NA), let along the LS engine... (which was, uh... AJ30/35?) The earlier AJ26S/27S are okay, but best go for the 2002-on engine.

The LS engine was the AJ30 and in 2003+ AJ35. Thats good to know about the differences between these Jag engines. I wonder what would give more power, a twin turbo setup for the AJ30/AJ35 or just swapping out the AJ34 from an S-Type/XJ/XK R? Any thoughts?

 

[Tornado]

But, they're Volvos...the reliability is almost perfect.

And that usually-correct mantra is what screwed so many people into buying first generation Volvo S40s. Stay away.

The 3.0L I6 GS is more expensive to insure than a 4.0L V8 SC? Huh?

I'd imagine it would possibly be the fault of the aftermarket.

 

[1X83Z]

And that usually-correct mantra is what screwed so many people into buying first generation Volvo S40s. Stay away.

Hey, reliability wasn't the problem with those things - it was the fact that they were underpowered, under-specced, overpriced, poor-handling, Dutch-built trash heaps which shared many components with a Mitsubishi generally regarded to be among the worst in the business.

Then reliability.

 

[STLbarcelona5]

I haven't been following this thread, merely rather skimmed parts of it. But from guessing your budget (under $10k?ish), I'd say go check out a late 90's BMW 328i/is/ic. Those should hover around $10,000 but I don't really know what the insurance is like.

Then again, I am a bit skewed on this because I just bought a 1994 325is over the weekend (will pick it up saturday!). And I think my insurance for that was around $70/mo. with me (19yrs) as the co-driver with my dad (never had a ticket).

And seeing the 323 up there (albeit "out"), I figure it's at least worth it to take a gander at the coupe 3 series.

 

[JCE]

Tomorrow there is a 99.98% chance that I get my co-worker's Prelude. I drove it a little bit today and only spotted a couple of issues. Slight alignment problem, needs brakes, needs a tune-up, and needs to be heavily cleaned. Thank god I work at a carwash--so I can take care of that last one tomorrow. If the deal falls through I am still getting either an Lexus SC, P71 Crown Vic, or a Lincoln LS.

I haven't been following this thread, merely rather skimmed parts of it. But from guessing your budget (under $10k?ish), I'd say go check out a late 90's BMW 328i/is/ic. Those should hover around $10,000 but I don't really know what the insurance is like.

Then again, I am a bit skewed on this because I just bought a 1994 325is over the weekend (will pick it up saturday!). And I think my insurance for that was around $70/mo. with me (19yrs) as the co-driver with my dad (never had a ticket).

And seeing the 323 up there (albeit "out"), I figure it's at least worth it to take a gander at the coupe 3 series.

All 3-series are out for now. I either can't afford a good one or I can't afford the insurance. But, congrats on getting the new BMW! Pics!