Post Update 1.49 Suspension Compression Issues - Possible Glitch?

[WolfpackS2k]

Since the latest physics update, several of my cars have become undriveable when encountering track areas where the suspension encounters extreme suspension compression.

When this happened in the past I was usually to blame by lowering a car too much, using wheels too wide, a combination of the two, etc, leading to clearance issues between the tires and car body. However, since the latest update this is happening to many of my 100% stock vehicles. I haven't tried out all of my stock vehicles (who has time for that?) but the biggest offenders I've found so far are the E36 M3 and 964 911 RS. There are spots on many tracks with problems, but the easiest ones to identify occur on the Nordschleife. Specifically the downhill dip after Flugplatz, as well as at bottom of Fuchsrohre (Foxhole) and especially the drop at Pflanzgarten, also to a lesser degree the bottom of hill at Tiergarten. This is extra annoying given Nordschleife is my favorite track.

The steering wheel suddenly turns over 90° and will crash the car.

To fix this issue on my 964 I continually tried raising the ride height with full custom suspension. Minimum height for that car is 75 mm. BEFORE the update my car was perfectly happy at 105 mm. But now, that doesn't work. I tried raising the height, 5mm at a time, to get rid of the issue. No luck. Went up to 125 mm and at that point the height started to negatively affect handling in all aspects.

Again, this is happening to stock vehicles using sport tires (SH and SS, haven't tried SM but shouldn't matter). Stock wheel sizes as well. Anyone else experiencing this? Please help.

 

[eran0004]

Try increasing the natural frequency and the compression damping. The force of the springs is proportional to the displacement, while the force of the damper is proportional to the velocity of the displacement. So when you increase the damper compression setting you absorb more of the shock from sudden compressions.

 

[skydragon49]

I mentioned the exactly same thing in the thread related to said update (1:49), exactly the same problem and exactly the same spot at the Nordschleife.

The car I was tes driving at Nordschleife was the Aston Martin V8 Vantage. The solution I found for it was setting the natural frequency to the max.

It has been working for many stock cars I drove there that display that problem.

In addition to this I always set the dampers (compression and expansion) to be stiffer (not max out though) and try to not set the car too low. At least not as low as before the 1:49 update.

As I don't seek tunning my cars to max performance, for I rather try to "just" improve them a reasonable bit, the height adjustable suspension does the trick for me. I'm sure the fully customizable suspension will get you even better results.

Edit: corrected typos

 

[WolfpackS2k]

Thanks for reply. I feel like setting the suspension to be extremely stiff is a poor solution, especially given that the problem occurs mostly on tracks where you DON'T want a stiff suspension, lol.

Glad you found a "fix" but that's not really a fix. Stock vehicles should not behave that way, and given that they were not before update 1.49 that would indicate that PD ****ed up here. To which I ponder, does anyone know if PD is aware of this? They have to!

 

[United6694]

I'm not sure if it's the combo of cars and tracks this week but 2 of the weekly races so far have been awful.

The Daytona race, I used a old Mustang, everything I hit the banking it chucked my to the infield, the race was unplayable... I recorded it so if someone could advise how to get it from PS5 to here I'll share.

The Lambo special event was just a trail of oversteer the second the brake was touched and then low speed unrealistic understeer.

Will also post in the weekly race thread if this is the wrong place.

 

[jrbabbitt]

I don't know it this issue is related somehow but i have found some of my road cars (older ones) cannot have race tyres installed or the warning triangle of PP doom appears, I change any and all settings possible with race tyres and its a no-go situation until i change them to sports tyres. Does anyone have same experience?

 

[Daxus]

Thanks for reply. I feel like setting the suspension to be extremely stiff is a poor solution, especially given that the problem occurs mostly on tracks where you DON'T want a stiff suspension, lol.

Glad you found a "fix" but that's not really a fix. Stock vehicles should not behave that way, and given that they were not before update 1.49 that would indicate that PD ****ed up here. To which I ponder, does anyone know if PD is aware of this? They have to!

Try mounting a 'lesser' tire. I had nearly always the same issue with the stock 992 at foxhole and sometimes at the two other spots you mentioned when Racing Softs were mounted. I believe it's a grip issue in stead of a suspension issue. My car just shot away in a direction and there was nothing I could do about it. Racing Hard made it better and Sport Soft 'fixed' it for me.

 

[mynameis66]

Since the latest physics update, several of my cars have become undriveable when encountering track areas where the suspension encounters extreme suspension compression.

When this happened in the past I was usually to blame by lowering a car too much, using wheels too wide, a combination of the two, etc, leading to clearance issues between the tires and car body. However, since the latest update this is happening to many of my 100% stock vehicles. I haven't tried out all of my stock vehicles (who has time for that?) but the biggest offenders I've found so far are the E36 M3 and 964 911 RS. There are spots on many tracks with problems, but the easiest ones to identify occur on the Nordschleife. Specifically the downhill dip after Flugplatz, as well as at bottom of Fuchsrohre (Foxhole) and especially the drop at Pflanzgarten, also to a lesser degree the bottom of hill at Tiergarten. This is extra annoying given Nordschleife is my favorite track.

The steering wheel suddenly turns over 90° and will crash the car.

To fix this issue on my 964 I continually tried raising the ride height with full custom suspension. Minimum height for that car is 75 mm. BEFORE the update my car was perfectly happy at 105 mm. But now, that doesn't work. I tried raising the height, 5mm at a time, to get rid of the issue. No luck. Went up to 125 mm and at that point the height started to negatively affect handling in all aspects.

Again, this is happening to stock vehicles using sport tires (SH and SS, haven't tried SM but shouldn't matter). Stock wheel sizes as well. Anyone else experiencing this? Please help.

I have this with one of the Evos on stock susp and SH tyres, I cant remember which,the E36 on race susp is another'funny'one since the update.Some people give it the learn to tune speach but im not convinced.If it was one person having the issue I would get it but its clearly not.
There are other cars that arent great for me since update 1.50,my engine swsp Yaris is one.That used to corner on rails on Tokyo and Grand Valley but not anymore.Ive got it to a reasonable level by messing with ride height and natural frequency settings but nothing like before.
It is what it is I guess,fingers crossed for the update. 🫱

@Daxus Adding a lesser tyre might make the problem bettet but is not really the correct fix though is it?
Ive never raced but I wouldnt expect touring car drivers to ask for harder tyres because they have handling or suspension problems.Maybe they would,I dont know.
I get where your coming from but for me this was not an issue before the last update.Hopefulky PD can sort it.

 

[WolfpackS2k]

Try mounting a 'lesser' tire. I had nearly always the same issue with the stock 992 at foxhole and sometimes at the two other spots you mentioned when Racing Softs were mounted. I believe it's a grip issue in stead of a suspension issue. My car just shot away in a direction and there was nothing I could do about it. Racing Hard made it better and Sport Soft 'fixed' it for me.

Maybe it wasn't clear but I never mentioned race tires. I said Sport Hard & Sport Soft tires.

And I mean, how do we report these issues to PD?

 

[Daxus]

Maybe it wasn't clear but I never mentioned race tires. I said Sport Hard & Sport Soft tires.

And I mean, how do we report these issues to PD?

I believe I didn't write that you had racing tires, I wrote that in the case of the stock 992 I had the same issue at the same places when I fitted racing tires. I suggested that you could try and fit a lesser tire, I don't know which tires come stock with the vehicles you've mentioned...

BTW don't count on PD doing anything about it

 

[LSFDRX]

...BTW don't count on PD doing anything about it

As with many updates before, fixes are included in them but not mentioned prior. I'm expecting that there will be physics changes included this week and that these changes will be the exciting part of the update rather than the cars. There is no way PD isn't well aware of the issues still present in 1.50.

I'm also in the camp of people that hate the "just max out your spring rates" responses. Like, yeah, it can be done, but that's just not realistic, and body roll/pliablity are integral parts of handling and driving fun.

Fender clearance problems have been a thing in game since the beginning, but these new suspension compression issues (bouncy rebound [especially in the Lancer EVOs], weird steering response, borderline undriveable cars, and general suspension/tire tomfoolery [E36]) have really overshadowed the good done in 1.49/50.

I know none of our predictions are based in any concrete fact, but if the physics aren't changed in at least a minor way in this weeks update then PD truly is out to lunch. That said, I truly do think there will be changes made to the physics model this week.

 

[Daxus]

As with many updates before, fixes are included in them but not mentioned prior. I'm expecting that there will be physics changes included this week and that these changes will be the exciting part of the update rather than the cars. There is no way PD isn't well aware of the issues still present in 1.50.

I'm also in the camp of people that hate the "just max out your spring rates" responses. Like, yeah, it can be done, but that's just not realistic, and body roll/pliablity are integral parts of handling and driving fun.

Fender clearance problems have been a thing in game since the beginning, but these new suspension compression issues (bouncy rebound [especially in the Lancer EVOs], weird steering response, borderline undriveable cars, and general suspension/tire tomfoolery [E36]) have really overshadowed the good done in 1.49/50.

I know none of our predictions are based in any concrete fact, but if the physics aren't changed in at least a minor way in this weeks update then PD truly is out to lunch. That said, I truly do think there will be changes made to the physics model this week.

I really hope they do, I can't play the game this way and I miss driving NBR with my 'friends'...

 

[WolfpackS2k]

I believe I didn't write that you had racing tires, I wrote that in the case of the stock 992 I had the same issue at the same places when I fitted racing tires. I suggested that you could try and fit a lesser tire, I don't know which tires come stock with the vehicles you've mentioned...

BTW don't count on PD doing anything about it

Ah yes thanks. I misread your sentence with the mention of Race Softs.

Cheers

 

[Marcus Garvey]

To be Fair, the E36 does tend to rip its fender liners out in stock form in real life with just a little more tyre than factory. 245/17s rip the fenders apart on stock cars, and you need some serious cutting to get 265s to fit.

I did notice that when you widebody the E36 in the game, the wide offset wheel option disappears. I don't recall it doing that on the stock non widebody car. Odd.

Me laughing while documenting a close friend sawing more clearance for 265s between practice sessions. And then we had to roll the fenders again after the next run as it was still rubbing. Nothing short of radiusing the fenders is going to resolve the issue.

The end result to fit 265s, and the left rear still rubs badly in the uphill. You can see how badly I had to pull those fenders And this car is on 1000lb springs.

9/21/24 - SCDA - LIME ROCK PARK

Photo by Super Ride Media

galleries.page.link

Another close friend's e36 with 245s hammering the inner fender.

This car had a wheel bearing start to go, and the tyre chewed into the fender. That is how little clearance there is for large tyres on these. Less than you can slide a pinky finger into. They're narrow bodies, even 245s stick way out. My Civic on 225s(seen in the background in the above shot) is significantly wider on the trailer, it's sort of funny to see.

 

[suomi1]

When you see pretty much all cars kind of "jumping" when selecting parts at GT Auto, you feel something is still wrong here.

 

[WolfpackS2k]

To be Fair, the E36 does tend to rip its fender liners out in stock form in real life with just a little more tyre than factory. 245/17s rip the fenders apart on stock cars, and you need some serious cutting to get 265s to fit.

I did notice that when you widebody the E36 in the game, the wide offset wheel option disappears. I don't recall it doing that on the stock non widebody car. Odd.

Me laughing while documenting a close friend sawing more clearance for 265s between practice sessions. And then we had to roll the fenders again after the next run as it was still rubbing. Nothing short of radiusing the fenders is going to resolve the issue.
View attachment 1393637

The end result to fit 265s, and the left rear still rubs badly in the uphill. You can see how badly I had to pull those fenders And this car is on 1000lb springs.

9/21/24 - SCDA - LIME ROCK PARK

Photo by Super Ride Media

galleries.page.link

Another close friend's e36 with 245s hammering the inner fender.
View attachment 1393639

This car had a wheel bearing start to go, and the tyre chewed into the fender. That is how little clearance there is for large tyres on these. Less than you can slide a pinky finger into. They're narrow bodies, even 245s stick way out. My Civic on 225s(seen in the background in the above shot) is significantly wider on the trailer, it's sort of funny to see.
View attachment 1393638

Main point being, however, that the car was perfectly fine before the last physics update.

As to in real life, yeah I can see that problem. However unless an E36 is insanely modified such wide rubber isn't needed. 235 square is more than adequate for a stripped down and caged E36 with 280-300ish hp. At least in my experience racing one for over a year.

 

[Marcus Garvey]

Main point being, however, that the car was perfectly fine before the last physics update.

As to in real life, yeah I can see that problem. However unless an E36 is insanely modified such wide rubber isn't needed. 235 square is more than adequate for a stripped down and caged E36 with 280-300ish hp. At least in my experience racing one for over a year.

IIRC the E36 was released with update 1.49, the major physics update. 1.5 just partially patched the jumpy rally cars and such. I don't recall the car being around prior to 1.49, so I can't really comment how it drove before then.

The GLTC/ST5 car above is built to the rules. It has ST4 stickers as well because the car is occasionally used to double dip. If the rules say you can run up to 265s at the 2862lb competition weight, you run 265s. If you mean on a track car that isn't constrained or used for competition, sure, run whatever you want. Not fully prepping the car to the rules and just running narrower tyres than everyone else in class is not an option in this case. In ST5 the car runs 245 R7s on 10s because that is the largest that fit in the tyre jig(NASA measures tyres overall like your luggage at the airport, rather than using manufacturer sizing) whereas in GLTC the car runs 265s on 11.5s. The blue car runs 225s on 9s.

It is worth mentioning that most of the cars in the game, when modified with racing suspension, are super low. IIRC the e36 is like 100 or 105mm or something crazy default. I'm not sure where exactly they are measuring the ride height for the game settings, but the car isn't going to even roll at 100mm to the pinch welds. 4" at the pinch welds is lol. Again, not sure how detailed the game is, but with each vehicle bottoming out the tyre at different ride heights, I suspect there is some specific detail in there on each vehicle that we do not see. So it becomes a bit of trial and error to get minimum ride heights that don't interfere with clearances.

The eg Civic in game is something similar like 100mm default height with racing suspension. Even with 15s you can't really run the car any lower than 120mm or so at the pinch welds, and anything less than ~135 and the cars just eat cv axles. They don't replicate that in the game, though.

Edit: For hahas I checked the ride heights on the E36 and in competition trim it is 6.785" to the front jack point/pinch welds. Lol GT7.

 

[Will_]

I agree there is a serious glitch or issue, I am having same issue at Nurburgring going into the dip at the end of the main straight as well as into Foxhole. Very frustrating as I love the E36. Simply jacking up the spring rates/natural frequency is not a real solution. The car does not suddenly turn 90degrees in that situation. I was just at the Nurburgring in July, no issues going through either section at 130mph in an F30 328i.

Credentials:
Played every GT since GT2
A+ DR when I played frequently
10+ track days per year IRL
Do my own suspension setup work/specify alignment specs

My former E36 328i (ignore eBay M3 front bumper, I was 17):

My former E46 330ci (and GTI):

Current track car (look at that compression!):

Driving the Nurburgring three months ago:

 

[Marcus Garvey]

I'll admit I haven't spent a lot of time with a stock E36 in the game yet. So I grabbed a completely stock one from my garage and just ran a couple laps at the Nurburgring. Flat through the Fuchsrohre, somewhere around 7k in 5th, no issues. So I tossed a set of SS tyres on the car thinking maybe that'll get it acting silly. Still, no issues.

You are having a completely stock car go sideways there?

 

[Will_]

I'll admit I haven't spent a lot of time with a stock E36 in the game yet. So I grabbed a completely stock one from my garage and just ran a couple laps at the Nurburgring. Flat through the Fuchsrohre, somewhere around 7k in 5th, no issues. So I tossed a set of SS tyres on the car thinking maybe that'll get it acting silly. Still, no issues.

You are having a completely stock car go sideways there?

I admit I haven’t played in two weeks - but yes, I was getting sudden, violent 90 degree turns with zero steering input in the highest compression zones. It was totally abnormal, one of the weirder things I’ve ever had happen in a GT game.

I will try to record a video.

 

[Marcus Garvey]

I didn't think to hit record when I drove the car, so I went back. Was booted for maintenance like 90 seconds after I recorded this, so I didn't get a chance to record the SS tyres. But here is the bone stock car flat through there;



This was in a public lobby, grip and slip on real and wear on 1x.

 

[WolfpackS2k]

^beats me. I too will try to take a video. Then again, maybe this update fixed it?? (fingers crossed).

IIRC the E36 was released with update 1.49, the major physics update. 1.5 just partially patched the jumpy rally cars and such. I don't recall the car being around prior to 1.49, so I can't really comment how it drove before then.

Car's handling was fine upon release. Post the 1.5 "fix" for the jumping cars is when the problem started. It's also a major problem for me with the 964 911. I have several of those, in various states of tune (stock, engine swap, etc etc). And they all have bump-steer crashing at Nurburgring.

 

[WolfpackS2k]

Here's a clip. 964 at stock ride height, stock wheel size, on SS tires.

 

[Marcus Garvey]

I don't drive the newer 911s often, but the '73 is one of my regulars. I'll take the newer ones for a ride in a bit. Also going to run the stock E36 again and see how it feels post update. Curious.

 

[WolfpackS2k]

I guess I take back some of my above comments. Just did a Ring lap with E36 and the problem would appear to be gone.

And while the above video clip features a 964 with stock suspension height, the car is modified (slightly lighter and 45 additional hp). Took out a bone stock 964 RS and while it still had the same issues, they were less severe as the car wasn't traveling as fast. i.e. none of it's suspension clearance issues caused crashes - just made the steering wheel flick through some rotation briefly.

In summary, I dunno lol. Slightly better maybe?

 

[AerodyManiac]

I’m not sure if this is related, but over the past week when I was doing the European Sunday Cup 500 race at Eiger Nordwand, my totally stock 308 GTB would have some twitching in the steering inputs when I was cornering. While it wasn’t sufficient to cause anything to the car it was still a bit distracting. But I do wonder if it’s to do with my racing wheel (a Thrustmaster T300 RS), which is brand new but a wee bit loosened in the quick-release screw at that time. Yet it doesn’t feel loose enough to cause the connecting electrical ports to go funky with the signal transmission. So I’m not sure if it’s the wheel or the suspension physics that’s acting up. Here’s a video of the jerking:



Some identification of the source of problem would be appreciated.

 

[WolfpackS2k]

^Yup, that's what it looks like. Sometimes its minor enough to not affect the car's behavior. But that's not a Thrustmaster issue, its the game.

So I did a little more research (very slow work day) over here and found a fix for the E36 M3. My bone stock one, on stock wheels - no issue. My bone stock one, on 18" wheels (though same width and offset), the car will crash on Ring as we've been discussing above. I also noticed that the one on 18" wheels has a 2.5 (roughly) lower PP rating. Very strange. I went into GT Auto and changed the aftermarket wheels from 18" to 17" (this changed the PP to the same rating as the OEM wheel shod M3) then returned to Ring. Zero issues with suspension compression and steering. So that makes me wonder if PD is screwing up the tire diameter on some cars if you change the wheel diameter.

After this success with BMW I went back to my 964 and changed the wheel diameter from 18" to 17" (again, OEM size). Nope, car still crashes from the suspension compression issue as seen in my above video. Dang it.

 

[WolfpackS2k]

Switched my modded 964 back to stock suspension. Still has the issue, worse as ever.

 

[Meythia]

So that makes me wonder if PD is screwing up the tire diameter on some cars if you change the wheel diameter.

Different wheel size means different size of the tires sidewall means different cornering and compression.

 

[Will_]

To clarify on my end, I had this issue with even completely stock E36. The issue was worse when I has tried aftermarket wider offset wheels. I think it’s just an issue with how PD calculates bump steer. I will try to replicate tonight or tomorrow.