Potato...

[VBR]

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all the people all of the time." - John Lydgate.

According to the poll in this thread, PD are managing to please most of the people, & that ain't too bad a thing imho.


👍

 

[PzR Slim]

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all the people all of the time." - John Lydgate.

According to the poll in this thread, PD are managing to please most of the people, & that ain't too bad a thing imho.


👍

Very true but it’s also true that some people are easily pleased!

 

[eran0004]

Wow..

To all those who have questioned the do it once approach - did you all forget what it was like for GT1 to GT4, where you bought the game and played it (with no updates) until the next one was released?

Maybe you could go back to the GT1 - 4 forums and show us all your posts and threads about the need to update the physics you had back then?

Sure, if you show me how a PS1 game can be updated.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Sure, if you show me how a PS1 game can be updated.

By waiting for the next game to come out. That's the point

 

[Vspectra]

They need to stop "updating" the physics. I am tired of constantly having to re-test cars every 3 months because PD can't get it right the first time. Do it once, do it right, and be done with it.

"Do it once and do it right" would mean the game would have never come out.

Software development and programming in general is an ever learning process. Doesn't matter how much time you have, you can always end up finding more efficient and more accurate code solutions. Modern game update methods just means the game changes can evolve quicker because the method of delivery has advanced. The current physics feels quite a bit better than the vanilla game. Pretty sure PD would just be called lazy from forum members if they never bothered to update the physics despite many complaints about the cars feeling like they drove on ice.

Wow..

To all those who have questioned the do it once approach - did you all forget what it was like for GT1 to GT4, where you bought the game and played it (with no updates) until the next one was released?

Maybe you could go back to the GT1 - 4 forums and show us all your posts and threads about the need to update the physics you had back then?

GT1-4 era of game development is outdated. It's a pretty disingenuous comparison. Online wasn't even a thing for the PS2 GTs so there was no way to even get a physics update without a completely new game. If it were possible, I'm actually pretty sure PD would have done it. People weren't asking for bug fixes for their games back then either, despite many games needing them. On top of that, you had certain franchises that released a special edition a year or two later in order to provide gameplay changes and balances, and you basically had to pay for the same game twice to get those updates. Let's not go back to that era.

By waiting for the next game to come out. That's the point

Yeah, let's not fix bugs or add new features, cars, and tracks either because that's how it was during the ps2 era, despite modern games requiring much more effort and development time than PS1-PS2 games. We should all wait 5 years until the next game for these updates because a few people are too lazy to adjust to physics tweaks.

 

[QTheRacer_31]

Seriously, some people.

No. The game isn’t going to halt development simply because you run a time trial thread or have an online championship. The game updates will cater to the official online competitions that this game supports and PD is allowed to change whatever the crap they want so long as it improves the experience with said online championships.

Thank you.

Not halt development but at least make sure you keep a relatively stable environment by actually testing stuff thoroughly before release. Most important thing they should do is give a detailed explanation of what has changed like other more transparent developers are doing. Now we’re all trying to guess what has changed and we’re not sure how to adapt league rules to try to provide some consistency with how it was before the update.

Change is good but at least tell us what you changed. The laws of physics don’t change but when a championship changes certain parameters, you get a detailed explanation of everything so contestants can make the necessary changes.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

I don't see games like Red Dead Redemption 2 constantly needing updates to the physics of riding a horse. I wouldn't be proud of releasing a game that was unfinished. Besides, what incentive do they have to work on a new game when all they have to do is keep adding cars and changing the tire physics to the old one? Why did GT6 come out at all?

 

[DesertPenguin]

Yeah, let's not fix bugs or add new features, cars, and tracks either because that's how it was during the ps2 era, despite modern games requiring much more effort and development time than PS1-PS2 games. We should all wait 5 years until the next game for these updates because a few people are too lazy to adjust to physics tweaks.

I'm not saying that, I'm saying that's what they're saying lol

 

[Vspectra]

I don't see games like Red Dead Redemption 2 constantly needing updates to the physics of riding a horse. I wouldn't be proud of releasing a game that was unfinished. Besides, what incentive do they have to work on a new game when all they have to do is keep adding cars and changing the tire physics to the old one? Why did GT6 come out at all?

A fictional action adventure game isn't striving for improved realism in its horse physics though; you don't even have to manually control the horse as you can use the cinematic mode and the horse automatically runs to your destination. I'm not seeing how the comparisons are similar. The controls in Red Dead 2 are highly sluggish with a massive delay in input response and can make it a chore to play, so it's not like there isn't stuff they can't or shouldn't update. The game also just recently released. If you look at Grand Theft Auto V, Rockstar continually made updates, additional content, and patches since 2013 and were still releasing updates in 2018.

https://gta.fandom.com/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_V/Title_Update_Notes

These updates keep improving the game and make people continually play it for years to come, as the development time takes even longer for the sequel. There's a bunch of stuff GT7 could improve on once it releases, which mostly like won't even be on PS4.

I'm not saying that, I'm saying that's what they're saying lol

Ah ok I see what you mean, I got confused. lol.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

If a game needs 5 years to be where it should have been on launch day, it shouldn't have been released in the first place. When I played GT1 or even GT4 I never thought "I wish they would change the physics every 6 months." It simply wasn't necessary, and it still isn't. We were happy with what we got. Now, nobody's ever happy.

 

[ScottPuss20]

If a game needs 5 years to be where it should have been on launch day, it shouldn't have been released in the first place. When I played GT1 or even GT4 I never thought "I wish they would change the physics every 6 months." It simply wasn't necessary, and it still isn't. We were happy with what we got. Now, nobody's ever happy.

In this modern gaming landscape, it's almost suicidal to remain stagnant and never try to improve anything. Changes to the physics are needed to ensure that people can continue to play the game. It's a good idea to use the resources available in order to update the game, and fix and niggles that may be affecting the quality of gameplay. Before online gaming and updates, people probably had complaints about the physics, but they knew nothing would ever change so they just put up with it. Why should PD waste their resources and never change anything?

 

[MidFieldMaven]

In this modern gaming landscape, it's almost suicidal to remain stagnant and never try to improve anything. Changes to the physics are needed to ensure that people can continue to play the game. It's a good idea to use the resources available in order to update the game, and fix and niggles that may be affecting the quality of gameplay. Before online gaming and updates, people probably had complaints about the physics, but they knew nothing would ever change so they just put up with it. Why should PD waste their resources and never change anything?

They should focus on GT7 or whatever they're going to call their next game, so they can release a full product that they can be proud of on day one. It's almost like, why bother buying and playing a game until the next one comes out, so that you know you're playing the game the way it was meant to be?

 

[MisterWaffles]

@MidFieldMaven

I understand where you're coming from when you say you never want it to change. You run a time trial thread which records lap times that become void after each and every physics update. I understand your frustration but I still think your proposed "solution" isn't a good way of looking at things.

Sure, it would be nice for a game to come out and be perfect with no tweaks needed, but the reality is that's simply impossible. Even if a game comes out and gets glowing reviews with hundreds of awards, there is still a lot a developer can learn from user feedback. You won't make your customers happy by just sitting around and twiddling your thumbs, pretending everything is perfect when updates exist and can improve the gameplay experience for your consumers.

I’m sure that Polyphony has also learned a lot about the physics from the FIA championships series and the input of the competitors. Besides, there are some things you won’t even learn about your game unless you release it to the public and get that valuable input.

I was going to post this picture here I took last night, but I'll include it this post anyways:

I was actually able to win a race with my favourite GT3 car.

This update allowed me to actually concentrate on racing for once with my car of choice, the Ferrari 458 GT3, without having to deal with the awful handling model it had before. I wasn't happy with the car before the update when I signed with Ferrari, but now that the handling is much better I can enjoy the car and the game to a much greater capacity. If we had it your way, it would just stay crap forever and I wouldn't be having any fun.

Somewhat unrelated but still has to do with this: Zelda - Ocarina of Time

Widely considered the best game of all time. 10s across the board with glowing reviews. If they released it when over-the-air updates existed I'm sure Nintendo would have patched it once or twice in response to user feedback. After all, you can always improve on perfection.

P.S. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there's been a major sim racer this generation that hasn't had an at least minor physics adjustment.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

How can we be sure that your Ferrari handles more realistically now than prior to the update? I've never driven one in real life. I don't mind them adding new tracks, cars, modes etc...but changing how the cars handle shouldn't be an ongoing process. That's all I have to say on this anymore. If they change it again, I will stop playing.

Honestly, how many times does the guy in charge of tire/handling physics need to change his mind?

And the thing about perfection is that it can't be improved. It's perfect.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Have a nice day!

 

[MisterWaffles]

How can we be sure that your Ferrari handles more realistically now than prior to the update? I've never driven one in real life. I don't mind them adding new tracks, cars, modes etc...but changing how the cars handle shouldn't be an ongoing process. That's all I have to say on this anymore. If they change it again, I will stop playing.

Honestly, how many times does the guy in charge of tire/handling physics need to change his mind?

And the thing about perfection is that it can't be improved. It's perfect.

Sure, I’ve never driven a real GT3 (and I doubt you have either) but I know enough to say with certainty from my perspective that GT racing cars should have easy, flat and predictable handling. The 458 was the prince of fishtailing, second only to Lord Huracan before the update. Now since it has easier handling and is generally more flat I’d say it’s a step towards realism.

Everyone adapts or falls behind when they play GT Sport online. Adapting to physics updates, penalty system updates, BoP updates and more. If you don’t change along with the game, you’ll get left behind. Simple as that. I don’t think anyone around here or PD’s development staff will feel sorry for you if you refuse to adapt to the game.

I wish you the best in your search for the perfect game which never gets changed. But I’ll warn you: you won’t find much outside of games which are no longer supported.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Let’s not forget that GT3 cars are designed to be easy to drive due to the fact that a huge majority of GT racing drivers are amateurs and “gentlemen drivers”. A MR GT3 car shouldn’t be on the brink of spinning out through every corner. I’m happy with what we have now, it’s might not be the most realistic driving experience but it’s a good step in the right direction.

 

[Spirit]

Has anyone tried to perform donuts with the new update? I can get the car to slide around but it won’t do a proper donut.

Update to this, it must have been just the cat/track combo I was using. I've been able to perform donuts in other cars.

 

[eran0004]

By waiting for the next game to come out. That's the point

Then there are numerous threads on the topic.

 

[apff]

I had a drive this morning with both the Lamborghini GT3 and the Mercedes F1, and both are drivable now! I can drive through the turn 1 of the Nurb GP at normal speed without spinning!

 

[kjeldsen]

*EDIT*

 

[Lord Protector]

skids are definitely more manageable now too

 

[GaryCorvette]

After doing some Campaign Mode in Mission, Driving, comparisons from before, I did better all of my times from before except for 1. Funny thing on the top speed ones it registers your first score only. even if you beat it again it stays at your first try? So after doing this I'll change my vote to - Better from Worst.

 

[sems4arsenal]

How can we be sure that your Ferrari handles more realistically now than prior to the update? I've never driven one in real life. I don't mind them adding new tracks, cars, modes etc...but changing how the cars handle shouldn't be an ongoing process. That's all I have to say on this anymore. If they change it again, I will stop playing.

Honestly, how many times does the guy in charge of tire/handling physics need to change his mind?

And the thing about perfection is that it can't be improved. It's perfect.

I'm pretty sure if the real GT3 cars exhibited that amount of snapiness in real life, It wouldn't have won a single race.

 

[Mr616]

If game updates existed back in the days of PS1 and GT1 people may have wanted it updating, but there was no other "sim" to compare it to apart from the Ridge Racers of this world, and nobody could foresee that games would go on line and have code updated on the fly. Having said that, it was so long ago, that the physics in those old GT games was cutting edge compared to others around that time. (I can remember race cars bouncing round the banking of high speed ring in a completely unrealistic way. That would have been patched if possible, or a change to physics. Also the car wheels used to pert-rude through the top of the wheel arches instead of hitting bump stops and again, I'm sure this would've been patched).

BOP can change at any time during a real life season which affects a car performance so I see no issue with physics updates at all. I hope PD keep striving for a better and better model. It'll mean the next game may need no updates at all to it's physics (although all on line games will be tweaked to improve them over it's life cycle).

I think most updates by PD have improved the game.

 

[Voodoovaj]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nürburgring_Nordschleife_lap_times

There ya go. Actual Nurb lap times. Scroll down to "qualifying" and "racing"

If, on a 25 km (edit: track), the simulation lap times are in line with the real lap times, then the simulation must be quite accurate.

Looking at the GT3 cars on the Nurb 24, those times look a whole lot like what we see in game. If this game were actually "simcade" as some like to say, the in-game times would be massively different, but they aren't.

I seriously don't know what people are looking for or what they are comparing against. I've been on race tracks with a bunch of different cars and motorcycles. I've been in properly prepped, dedicated track cars, an M3 with bald tires (and a bust rear suspension), another M3 (again with bald tires, but the suspension was fine), a Chevy 1500 pickup truck, a Dodge RAM 1500 pickup, a bone stock Yaris, and my own daily drivers for good measure. Toss in various tracks with various track surfaces (FYI, proper track asphalt is AMAZEBALLS compared to regular street grade asphalt). That's my frame of reference and I have to say, this update feels pretty damn good in comparison.

(The biggest difference I feel is that the blood doesn't all rush into my face under braking.)

I'm skeptical of some of the comments in this thread. Comparing against other sims as a frame of reference assumes the accuracy of those sims and is also viewed through the lens of their simulation choices and methodologies, which will vary in terms of relative accuracy.

Let’s not forget that GT3 cars are designed to be easy to drive due to the fact that a huge majority of GT racing drivers are amateurs and “gentlemen drivers”. A MR GT3 car shouldn’t be on the brink of spinning out through every corner. I’m happy with what we have now, it’s might not be the most realistic driving experience but it’s a good step in the right direction.

Not to mention that Ferrari, a company with a history of winning, would quite likely not make a race car that spins if you look at it the wrong way. The same goes for Lamborghini, who, let's not forget, is leaning heavily on data from Audi.

The pre-1.32 Ferrari handled very much like the aforementioned M3 with broken suspension. I think it's a safe assumption that the real car does not handle this way.

 

[apff]

The F1 was fixed before 1.32

I did a angry run with the Ferrari GT3. It is much much easier to handle now, still alive and kicking but it moved in to possible from near impossible

As far as I remember, it was fixed in an update after its introduction, but I still experienced some issues at that time. Maybe I didn't play it enough... Nor after the good update.

Still, the Lamborghini is way easier to drive to the limit with a wheel while still requiring to manage it correctly when pushing the limit which is good.

 

[kjeldsen]

*EDIT*

 

[WheelmanSteve]

I had reached point of frustration with GTS where Fallout 76 was a welcome diversion, and I spent a good chuck of November and December walking around West Virginia in a metal suit. The cars in 1.32 weren't going to bring me back, although I love the Dino, and what a selection of colors! What got me back into GTS was the mere mention of a physics update. I ran a bunch of league events, and finished the Mission Challenges, and I am really impressed- cars drive like CARS, and my G29 feels like someone at PD actually bought one and used it, realized how poorly supported it was, and updated their code for it. I've been replaying League events, and really enjoying the game again. I haven't tried a Sport event yet- I still think the default tire should be RM, but I'm thinking about it.

 

[Rexracer702]

Quite a read. I'm not going to argue "to update or not to update". FYI, I'm for updates, especially when they improve the game. This one did. Before I always had the feeling that, when getting in too hot, the car would slide and never come back. The whole "skating" thing. Real cars and real tires don't behave that way. Tires start to squirm, then creep, then slide. Back off the throttle, or your steering inputs, and traction starts to come back. With the new update, I feel like I'm on real tires. The old physics were way to on vs off in terms of traction, which gives no feel. The new physics have a much wider range of "stick" between none and fully stuck. I was driving the Alfa at DT when the update hit, and it took me 3 corners to know it was better. Not only was I faster (marginally, most likely) but the new model allowed me to push harder, and recover without loosing as much time. Like many here, I imagine, I can get into a corner too hot, then you get understeer and are trying to slow to get the tires to hook up. Now they will. As to the cars all understeering...in reality almost all cars do. They're designed to understeer when entering a corner too fast because it's more controllable than the opposite. I've found that most of the time when I think a car is understeering too much, I'm just driving it wrong. Need to loose more speed going in, and often times turn in earlier. Take a look at your lines at the beginning of the week when learning the track, and at the end when you can run faster, more consistent laps. I know I find that I'm usually turning in sooner and hitting the apexes better.

I couldn't get out of the 41's at DT last week until the update, then I did a 40 and within 10 laps was in the 39's. part was the increased traction, but lots was the increased stability, and the way that a small mistake could be driven around and wouldn't automatically end your lap. I probably did a whole string of mid to high 1:40"s that would have been a spin or a 1:50 lap before the update, and that is worth way more in a race than a few 10ths in a Q lap.