PP BS, what the hell is this?

[Ecchi-BANZAII!!]

The PP system is actually a glitch that somehow got into the former updates.
They haven't figured out how to remove it yet.
/sarcasm

I hate the PP system.

 

[chuyler1]

There is nothing wrong with the PP system once you learn to tune cars for it. If you are under the illusion that you can just slap a few parts on a car, hit the track, and be competitive, you are living in a pipe dream.

I've been hosting same-make/model racing for the past few weeks and given the same car, everyone in the lobby takes a different approach. Here are a few pointers that could make you faster...

1) Install all drivetrain mods. They don't affect PP but will greatly affect acceleration. this includes, clutch, flywheel, driveshaft, transmission, etc

2) Test all performance parts and find the ones that give you the most power in the right power band. A high-rpm turbo combined with close gear ratios will be lightning fast on short tight tracks. You can get more hp per pp with a turbo or an ECU than an air filter or exhaust...so when building up a car chose wisely.

3) Learn to tune the suspension for maximum grip. Corner exit speed is crucial for fast straight line speed so if you can't balance out a car, you'll be left in the dust.

4) Learn to balance weight and power and aero. The lighter your car is, the less power it will have. Find the right balance between engine mods and weight reduction mods to achieve the quickest lap times. Use ballast when necessary to get closer to 50/50 weight distribution. Make sure you adjust spring rates accordingly afterward. Never add downforce when it isn't necessary.

5) Learn to follow closely and draft pass. A-spec doesn't teach this to you very well because the A.I. drivers often brake check when you get too close...but the key to passing online is getting a good draft. The car behind will always be quicker so get yourself to 2nd place and wait for the right moment to make your move so the other driver doesn't have time to pass you back.

6) Get rid of all driving aids except abs=1. They will slow you down. That includes driving in automatic mode. Getting gold in the license tests says your a good driver. To be competitive online you must be a great driver and a great tuner. If you're not interested in tuning, try some shuffle racing instead.


Oh, and about power reduction...it isn't a cheat. It can be used to achieve a better power curve on certain cars. Most of the time however, it makes you fast on one part of the track and really slow on other parts. Try using ballast instead. Its a much better way of getting a over-pp car into a certain class.

 

[davelis]

Just pick a quick car with a good engine and detune it
There's nothing wrong in doing it,that's what it's there for.
After all,you want to win,don't you?

 

[davelis]

There is nothing wrong with the PP system once you learn to tune cars for it. If you are under the illusion that you can just slap a few parts on a car, hit the track, and be competitive, you are living in a pipe dream.

I've been hosting same-make/model racing for the past few weeks and given the same car, everyone in the lobby takes a different approach. Here are a few pointers that could make you faster...

1) Install all drivetrain mods. They don't affect PP but will greatly affect acceleration. this includes, clutch, flywheel, driveshaft, transmission, etc

2) Test all performance parts and find the ones that give you the most power in the right power band. A high-rpm turbo combined with close gear ratios will be lightning fast on short tight tracks. You can get more hp per pp with a turbo or an ECU than an air filter or exhaust...so when building up a car chose wisely.

3) Learn to tune the suspension for maximum grip. Corner exit speed is crucial for fast straight line speed so if you can't balance out a car, you'll be left in the dust.

4) Learn to balance weight and power and aero. The lighter your car is, the less power it will have. Find the right balance between engine mods and weight reduction mods to achieve the quickest lap times. Use ballast when necessary to get closer to 50/50 weight distribution. Make sure you adjust spring rates accordingly afterward. Never add downforce when it isn't necessary.

5) Learn to follow closely and draft pass. A-spec doesn't teach this to you very well because the A.I. drivers often brake check when you get too close...but the key to passing online is getting a good draft. The car behind will always be quicker so get yourself to 2nd place and wait for the right moment to make your move so the other driver doesn't have time to pass you back.

6) Get rid of all driving aids except abs=1. They will slow you down. That includes driving in automatic mode. Getting gold in the license tests says your a good driver. To be competitive online you must be a great driver and a great tuner. If you're not interested in tuning, try some shuffle racing instead.


Oh, and about power reduction...it isn't a cheat. It can be used to achieve a better power curve on certain cars. Most of the time however, it makes you fast on one part of the track and really slow on other parts. Try using ballast instead. Its a much better way of getting a over-pp car into a certain class.

Real talk

 

[Captain Roh]

Come race at my Saturday Stock Car Series race event, we always use the same car & it's chosen from the Recommended list, I only accept super clean drivers too, so it's a lot of fun!

As far as I know, I'm the only race event organiser here on GT Planet offering that regularly on a weekly basis, check it out.

Ahem!!!

I also run a single make series, that VBR is a registered member of!, we race on sundays.

The cars may be tuned a little from time to time but everyone on the grid has the same car, set up in exactly the same way.


Check us out if you're interested Oyashiro san

 

[Exorcet]

I am not an idiot. Or is there a trick to go faster in straight lines. Maybe I am stupid, uh? I usually apply full throttle and keep the car straight, is it wrong? Oh, and if I can I use the air tunnel of the guy in front of me, and they still get away.

And you probably got silver or better on Nur in the vettel challenge, to be talking like that.

You don't have to be an idiot. But you losing PP races when 99.9999% of people are having close races clearly shows that PP is not at fault. You're not going to change anything with one instance to the contrary that has an unknown cause.

Your blaming PP isn't helping. You need to find the issue, be it your driving, or your cars, and then you need to fix it.

 

[Bien Cien]

You don't have to be an idiot. But you losing PP races when 99.9999% of people are having close races clearly shows that PP is not at fault. You're not going to change anything with one instance to the contrary that has an unknown cause.

Your blaming PP isn't helping. You need to find the issue, be it your driving, or your cars, and then you need to fix it.

I would say PP is as cliche as horsepower ratings. PP segregates the car classes by only so little. I mean I have a Caterham Seven Fireblade with a huge PP rating.......does that mean it can run with cars with the same PP?

(I also want to point out the Caterham is probably one of the hardest cars to drive with no aids for me. It looked so easy and fun to drive on Top Gear).

 

[chuyler1]

On Autumn Ring mini I bet the caterham would do just fine. At le Sarthe...not so much. Which is why one of my points above was balancing weight and power. The lighter your car gets the less power it will have (ahhem 500pp PDI Kart). You might have an advantage on a real tight course, but with drafting so prevalent in the game, you are usually better off with a heavy car that has more power.

 

[Oyashiro-sama]

Thanks guys!

Specially for your detailed info chuyler1!
I did not know you could get more hp per pp with certain parts. I always used to reduce the engine's HP with the limiter, but maybe I'll try uninstalling the air filters and exhaust.

 

[Derrict]

2) Test all performance parts and find the ones that give you the most power in the right power band. A high-rpm turbo combined with close gear ratios will be lightning fast on short tight tracks. You can get more hp per pp with a turbo or an ECU than an air filter or exhaust...so when building up a car chose wisely.

The supercharger upgrade tends to be more undervalued since it's not creating as much hp, but the torque is higher. Cars like the RX8 and 370Z tend to be more competitive with the s/c when the point system is used.

 

[chuyler1]

A s/c on a RX8? Umm, I'm not sure if that is possible.

 

[RockinVs]

I just checked....

You can put a supercharger on the premium rx8.

I would leave it N/A though... I think higher hp and lower trq give you more hp for the pp.

^lol

 

[Derrict]

I did some testing between my 500PP M3 CSL, 500PP Ruf RGT and 489PP RX8 (s/c). I didn't do engine upgrades and weight reduction (and no rear wing) on the RX8 since I wanted to only do bolt ons so that I could easily adjust it up/down without resorting to the engine limiter. Even at the 11PP deficit, I can click off consistent laps within .02 seconds of the M3 & CSL and RGT. If I swap out the s/c for the turbo upgrades and tune it to 489, it's about .05 seconds off the mark compared to the other two cars. I used Grand Valley East as the track, My Lounge for online testing, no assists other than ABS: 1

I did the same thing with the '08 Fairlady Z except I compared N/A vs S/C and the S/C has the edge. May be someone else can chime in but that's my experience so far. I'll try the Ford GT and Z06 Vette next.

 

[Sohvakettu]

It should also be remembered that not all cars are created equal. Not even if they look like it on paper/pp.

 

[BradKinder]

The pp system is known to favor high weight and high power cars. Going lightweight may be your problem. If your car is anything less than maxed out for a certain pp, then be sure to add weight for an even better allotment of power and downforce.

 

[dhandeh]

If your coming last, make sure before you 'go to race', you have selected the best possible tyres. I done this on my first few online races and wondered what the hell was going on!

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

It's a flaw in the game.

In the same way there are similar "flaws" in the real world of racing.

For every racing league, be it NASCAR, F1, or your local KART, there are regulations, and for those that want to be competitive, they must "tune" their cars to perform their very best while still complying to those regulations... most if not all of these regulations have "flaws" and can and will be exploited.

Most importantly, the PP system isn't designed to say that ANY two cars with the same PP will perform identically, and perhaps the real problem are the people who think it is supposed to do that.

The PP system is there to help identify similar performing cars, but in no way is it a guarantee to match cars up evenly, nor would it be reasonable to expect it to be able to do that, especially when comparing cars that are significantly different... that why in the real world of racing, most series are limited to specific types of cars, and specific modifications.

Look, if you want to point to threads discussing this issue, may I suggest the following:

• Why am I never competitive when doing an online PP based race?

And if you will, focus not so much on the rants, but the posts who offer reasonable explanations.

I wish there was a sticky explaining this here, as it seems this topic crops up regularly.

Agreed! It would likely end a lot of the pointless repetitive ranting.

I too wish there were more one-make racing from the recommended garage.
But if you want that, you need to join something like Fun Racers where it's organized with people on the forum knowing each other.

Otherwise, too, you would need to join organized races where people know each other, and tight restrictions on allowed cars & tuning are imposed & honoured.

Otherwise, the best pub lobby racing you can hope to find is basically shuffle races. I find plenty of those that are clean, and the racing is fair.

I can't agree more! 👍

Look, as long as you have races, both in the real world and in a video game, where the cars are not identical, there will always be drivers with advantages and disadvantages. In fact, very few races exist in the real world where everyone has an equal chance of wining based on their car selection.

Frankly, even in races where theoretically everyone is driving the exact same equipment, drivers will still have advantages and disadvantages based on how a car is set-up for that particular race.

Like the OP, I like to be in races where no one has any distinct advantage, and thus I get together with other drivers who feel the same way and organize races.

However, in no way would I support the idea that the PP system be removed. It serves a purpose, and frankly no handicap system is ever going to be perfect, not with the massive variety in cars and performance variations based on thousands of possible variations of tuning adjustments for each car.

Just like in the real world of racing, mechanics, engineers, and tuners will always find ways of improving their car's performance while still technically following any and all regulations. The same goes for GT5 and the PP system.

Besides, adjusting the power to lower the PP is just another form of tuning, and many people like the idea of being master tuners, both in the real world and in video games, and who spend countless hours testing out different set-ups, adjustments, modifications, to get their cars performing at their very best while still meeting any formal regulations.

So it really comes down to what you are looking for. Driver only races where everyone is in identical cars with identical set-ups, or Driver/Tuner races where within the regulations, different cars with different set-ups are allowed to compete. You are not forced to do one or the other, but you have to make an effort to find races that you will enjoy, and not simply expect them to be there waiting for you online or in the real world.

Anyone who is reading this thread is already a member of one of the best sites for online racing groups with access to multiple online racing leagues including their own official one, where for the most part members are very supportive, race clean, and stay active.

If you can't find a race online that you like, you aren't taking advantage of all your options.