Praiano's Tunes: Waiting for GT6 & FERRARI ENZO FXX.

[praiano63]

PSN offline for maintenane here in Suriname ??? Just time to monacing and nurburgring 1 time... and black out again.. Same when take out a lolypop from a kid..
Go to sleep.

Mister PSN,

 

[No_OBsT33R]

Which LF-A? The one that was indeed stolen from me and Roj along with 2 others?

My point exactly, it happens. When you feel it has, you have the right to call it out.

My point exactly.

Your point WAS there is similarity between our Tunes as is with Praiano and mine.

My point was your examples were (are) ridiculous. Your comparing 20 to 30% differences in values that vary 20 to 30% at times between cars let alone set ups, I'm pointing out differences of 2%. (if not the EXACT same) for multiple variables.

My point is, there is a BIG difference in 30% & 2%. If that's your point now, then you must agree they are too close (in too many wide ranging variables) for it to be coincidence. 1 variable, no prob, its possible, 2 is questionable, 3 or more is next to mathematically impossible. Far too close in to many wide range variables to be a coincidence.

Yadda yadda yadda I like to "laugh at people for "stealing" things from me because I'm so damn good". .

That's what you get from it? Interesting. How does that make you feel?

 

[praiano63]

What a pain. You are a big pain.. big big big pain. Tired to read you !

Can you go somewhere else where i cannot see you?? you and your tunes?? Please.

Again.

My sets
LSD Rear 10/30/12 your 9/37/22

Ride Height -20/-20 your -24 /-19

Spring Rate 14.2/12.8 your 14.2 /12.5 this one ? big thing !
Extension 9/3 your 7/8
Compression 7/4 your 5/7
Anti-roll bars 4/6 your 6/6

Camber 2.2/1.8 your 2.5/1.8 ?? Or this?? serious??
Toe -0.04/+0.10 your -0.02 / + 0.17

Brake Balance 5/6 your 4/3

tires S3/S3 your R3 / R3 ?????


You are so ridiculous. Stop now please, If i have to make a tune for Soft tires, do you think seriously that i will refere myself to a nobody tune Racing soft????.

This is the only thing we have in comon. WE ARE NOBODY. My tunes, yours tunes ,all together are NOTHING a big ****. So what are you fighting for ? Stop now please.

 

[No_OBsT33R]

What a pain. You are a big pain.. big big big pain. Tired to read you !

Can you go somewhere else where i cannot see you?? you and your tunes?? Please.

Again.

My sets
LSD Rear 10/30/12 your 9/37/22

Ride Height -20/-20 your -24 /-19

Spring Rate 14.2/12.8 your 14.2 /12.5 this one ? big thing !
Extension 9/3 your 7/8
Compression 7/4 your 5/7
Anti-roll bars 4/6 your 6/6

Camber 2.2/1.8 your 2.5/1.8 ?? Or this?? serious??
Toe -0.04/+0.10 your -0.02 / + 0.17

Brake Balance 5/6 your 4/3

tires S3/S3 your R3 / R3 ?????


You are so ridiculous. Stop now please, If i have to make a tune for Soft tires, do you think seriously that i will refere myself to a nobody tune Racing soft????.

This is the only thing we have in comon. WE ARE NOBODY. My tunes, yours tunes ,all together are NOTHING a big ****. So what are you fighting for ? Stop now please.

Wow didn't you already post that?

SR = Front EXACT same / rear + 2%

Camber = front + 6% / rear EXACT same

Toe = front + 4% / rear + 14%

In the suspension these are the settings with the widest ranging variables, and even still there is an average of only 4% difference, if any at all.

I'm crazy?!? lol, if you say so, lol

He didn't use all of my tune, just the entire suspension minus the dampers.

Oh yeah, Only 4% difference among the largest variables in the suspension, an average of 2.5 mm difference in height drop front to rear, & an average of 1 click difference in ARB's.....

Ummm yeah, I'm crazy, lol. I can see the obvious....

I must be CrAzY lol

 

[praiano63]

Wow didn't you already post that?

SR = Front EXACT same / rear + 2%

Camber = front + 6% / rear EXACT same

Toe = front + 4% / rear + 14%

In the suspension these are the settings with the widest ranging variables, and even still there is an average of only 4% difference, if any at all.

I'm crazy?!? lol, if you say so, lol

He didn't use all of my tune just the entire suspension minus the dampers really.

Oh yeah, Only 4% difference among the largest variables in the suspension, an average of 2.5 mm difference in height drop front to rear, & an average of 1 click difference in ARB's.....

Ummm yeah, I must be crazy, lol.

Crazy??? no! just an hopeless case. I'll never more answer to you. Never. Perhaps you stay bored of your own stupidity and stop. just stop.

 

[No_OBsT33R]

You didn't use all of my tune, just the entire suspension minus the dampers.

Only 4% difference among the largest variables in the suspension, an average of 2.5 mm difference in height drop front to rear, & an average of 1 click difference in ARB's.....

Ummm yeah, I'm crazy, lol. I can see the obvious....

I must be CrAzY lol lololol I might be, i might even be hopeless (doubt it though), but at least I don't take other peoples work, tweak it and then claim it was all original....

 

[Rotary Junkie]

There are more values different than similar. End of.

 

[No_OBsT33R]

There are more values different than similar. End of.

It's actually the complete opposite.

He didn't use all of my tune, just the entire suspension minus the dampers.

Only 4% difference among the largest variables in the suspension, an average of 2.5 mm difference in height drop front to rear, & an average of 1 click difference in ARB's.....

There are more identical and the exact same then different (hell only the dampers have any real difference) the rest as I've already pointed out is minimal at best if not the exact same amongst the variables with the largest range of possibilities. 4% I mean come on..... Your arguing?!?!?! If anybody had a Tune as identical to one of yours you would be pissed and causing a fuss. I haven't caused a Fuss, just defended my position and opinion on the obvious. I've never put myself above others or claimed I'm the best, that is what YOU took from me smiling over the situation instead of crying like a B***h. That means it's YOU that has a problem thinking that, not me Phycology 101. However I've been insulted, belittled and demeaned. This just IMO confirms all I need confirmed.

My reaction is what I would of expected with a lil bit of curiosity as to HOW it could of came to be (at this time the realization that my tune was on the car when he went out tuning might have been made) then we would of chuckled over it. I've been Mellow cool, and willing to give the benefit of the doubt. However direct hostility in response to a HINT at the possibility, is an good indicator... More Phycology 101.

That should be the end of it

 

[MOTRSPRT]

I just hope the moderators don't decide to lock this thread. I like the constantly developing information in these posts.

 

[Adrenaline]

at least I don't take other peoples work, tweak it and then claim it was all original....

Hey noobster, just have a quick question, can you please verify for me before I go on?

What I'm understanding from the last 3 pages, is that you believe Praiano has taken your work, made minor adjustments within ~5% and then presented it as his own, correct? And that claim/accusation, is based on the minor differences between your 2 tunes, as well as some exact settings(3)? That there is no possible way, your tunes could have independently ended up that close to each other without him stealing your work in some way?

Is that all correct? I just want to clarify that I'm understanding your stand point, before I post my opinion on the manner, as I've previously noticed similarities from other shops as well. Thanks in advance for clarifying.

 

[c.blanco]

praiano63 just ignore that guy.
Why the set up can not be similar to another one?
Do you take out a patent?

 

[dr_slump]

There's a huge difference between these tunes!

Compare them on the track, I bet they'll be very different to drive.

 

[praiano63]

Monday. Let's go to job. Real life, real problems to resolve, 24 tons of fish waiting for me ,no car, no tunes, i go walking.... fish fish fish...... No LLoobsttERR today only Fish.
Good week for everybody, Next tune, Lotus Evora ( online if PSN permit)

 

[littlesthobo]

Dear Mr praiano I write again to you about how wonderfull your tunes are I built the last one on your list the Chevy RM...very well done sir 👍

Now I spent all my GT5 creds building all your list of tunes....so now I'm broke So slow down with release of new tunes so I can earn some more creds to build up your new release

Well I'll leave you with your fish for now, but have a good day sir and thanks again for your efforts with GT5....I do hope that you will continue to make tunes now that PSN is back up

 

[praiano63]

Dear Mr praiano I write again to you about how wonderfull your tunes are I built the last one on your list the Chevy RM...very well done sir 👍

Now I spent all my GT5 creds building all your list of tunes....so now I'm broke So slow down with release of new tunes so I can earn some more creds to build up your new release

Well I'll leave you with your fish for now, but have a good day sir and thanks again for your efforts with GT5....I do hope that you will continue to make tunes now that PSN is back up

Oh Thanks a lot littlethobo , i like you enjoy my cars. Check the prize list car and do the specific race to have the one you want. Most are avaible for free ...I think, i haven't check. Don't worry, i have to retune most of my cars for online Racing. Some react so diferent online. "Nissan R390 for example" others not. So no new tune, only a Lotus Evora to come later. I need to reorganize all this. If not people will stay confused.
So have a good day too and see you soon online.

 

[No_OBsT33R]

Good morning y'all. Have a good sleep? I did, now what's up with GTP? Ahh, I've been turned into a Bully for questioning the originality of his tune, as it has a SERIOUS resemblance to mine that was only posted a few days earlier.

I would not of felt my original suspicions confirmed had I not meat such hostility at the suggestion of the possibility. It's only my opinion they are confirmed, however Im bound by my own opinion.

Is it possible they are all original? Yes just as it is also possible, yet more probable they are not. To discount either possibility is wrong, I don't believe it's impossible I do feel it is HIGHLY improbable. I only form my opinion based off the responses I received. I feel if they were all original, I wouldn't of received such hostility at the suggestion of the possibility (we all form our own opinions in different ways) They very well may be the fluke coincidence kicking mathematical possibilities and probabilities out the window. I just have a hard time setting aside reality to munch on some BS.

Soooo it appears I'm the only one who can see the resemblance (wait, had this been a case of the shoe on the other foot, would it have been the same outcome ?) had I been questioned on the authenticity of my tune, and I immediately had a hissey fit over it with such hostility, I would of been branded a thief with less similarities in the posted settings. Oh boy the hostility I would of received...

Who said they drive the same? A tweaked version of any tune won't be the exact same on the track despite where they are identical. Does that make ANY difference? Nope, none at all, completely irrelevant.

I move on a little more aware of the dislike spreading for me, I have my suspicions as to why that is, RJ thanks for clearing that up It seams I'm the only one without any rights as a member. If I exercise any it becomes a community drop in to tell me how irrelevant they are.

I've been met with not much more then hostility since posting at GTP, a few members have made me feel welcome, Praiano being one of them, I still like the guy. This is just blown out of proportion because of the immediate hostility at the suggestion (have I been hostile in this incident?) Have I returned insults? Nope just being obscure and vague so I can watch all the enlightening interpretations (thanks again RJ) just like that.

I think a little might stem from my Garage name "High Quality" seeming to infer to some (as it's been suggested) that I put my Tunes above others. I don't, it simply refers to my goal of High Quality Tunes for my Garage. That doesn't imply any others work is not as high in quality. I feel quite the contrary, I feel the more people we have posting set ups the better they will push each other to be. So I welcome all new tuners and Garages. Even more so because of how unwelcome my Garage has been.... Personally I take it as a compliment, while I'm sure most won't be man enough to admit it, my presence seems to threaten them in some way. It reminds me of how the pretty girls react when a new pretty girl comes along. Your own insecurities are what causes the interpretation that I think my Tunes are the best, just like the the Girls thinking the new girl thinks she's the Prettiest. lol I take it as a compliment, because the Pretty girls never care when a ugly girl comes along.

How about I just change the name of my Garage to "No_OBsT33R's Tuning Garage" would that make people feel better, and less like I have a higher opinion of my Tunes?

As for Praiano "Stealing" my work.

I still suspect it's nothing more than him having run my tune pre-tunning his, then not realizing it was still on when he went to tune his own.

I don't believe he outright stole my work or intentionally swiped a few great settings but rather inadvertently didn't realize he had my tune already on his car when he hit the track, so all his tuning is his own. I feel the foundation was not the default settings, but my settings.

Could I be wrong? Yes

But

Could I be right? Equally so

Does it really matter? No, not really, although it has been entertaining and enlightening.

So the question remains, how long will it be dragged out? Remains to be seen.... either way IDC it's entertaining me while Im at work.

 

[Adrenaline]

They very well may be the fluke coincidence kicking mathematical possibilities and probabilities out the window. I just have a hard time setting aside reality to munch on some BS.

Then it is my pleasure to inform you, that based on your own logic, your tune was stolen from Jeremy_Craig

[B][SIZE="3"]               [COLOR="Red"][U]Jeremy Craig[/U]           [U]Noobster[/U][/COLOR]
DF             20                     19-20

RH             -22/-22                -24/-19
SR             14.0/12.0              14.2/12.5
Ext            4/7                    7/8
Com            5/8                    5/7
ARB            4/4                    6/6

Cam            2.5/2.5                2.5/1.8
Toe            0.00/0.00              -0.02/+.17

Brake Bal      6/5                    4/3
[/SIZE][/B]

There are far more similarities between your tune and JC's, than Praiano's and yours.
Your tune follows every pattern, including the front to back shock strengths, unlike Praiano who is running inverted shocks.
Now, I'm sure you'll say you didn't steal them, but 'I have a hard time setting aside reality'.

 

[praiano63]

Then it is my pleasure to inform you, that based on your own logic, your tune was stolen from Jeremy_Craig

[B][SIZE="3"]               [COLOR="Red"][U]Jeremy Craig[/U]           [U]Noobster[/U][/COLOR]
DF             20                     19-20

RH             -22/-22                -24/-19
SR             14.0/12.0              14.2/12.5
Ext            4/7                    7/8
Com            5/8                    5/7
ARB            4/4                    6/6

Cam            2.5/2.5                2.5/1.8
Toe            0.00/0.00              -0.02/+.17

Brake Bal      6/5                    4/3
[/SIZE][/B]

There are far more similarities between your tune and JC's, than Praiano's and yours.
Your tune follows every pattern, including the front to back shock strengths, unlike Praiano who is running inverted shocks.
Now, I'm sure you'll say you didn't steal them, but 'I have a hard time setting aside reality'.

👍👍👍

 

[No_OBsT33R]

There are far more similarities between your tune and JC's, than Praiano's and yours.
Your tune follows every pattern, including the front to back shock strengths, unlike Praiano who is running inverted shocks.
Now, I'm sure you'll say you didn't steal them, but 'I have a hard time setting aside reality'.

I see your being more tactful in your post, good show, we don't need to fight if we disagree, your new approach is going to be much less conflict instigating. Cheers!

I do see the striking similarities between mine and JC's. I would understand completely if he had the same suspicions, and would not freak out if he had questioned me on it. I would simply state that while yes strikingly similar I did not use his as a basis let alone ever even look at them before now. I would also acknowledge (as I do) the STRICKINGLY similar values, and how it could be conceived as such.

However, I still find it NOT as similar as Praiano's and mine, while equally similar in some areas, Praiano's and mine share EXACT values in multiple fields, not just similar or close, but EXACT. I see only one exact in JC's. How exactly is Mine more similar to JC's then Praiano's to mine??? It's not.

Never the less, as I explained already.

I don't think he stole anything and I feel he genuinely tuned his own version, just the circumstance and response still has my opinion formed that he had my set up on when he went out tuning, most probably inadvertently. It's just IMO. .

Is it possible I'm wrong? Yes

Still

Is it possible I'm right? Equally so

Does it matter? Not really.

I've used this to see that my Garage name might inadvertently seem like a dig or seem as I have a higher opinion of myself. This may be causing unneeded conflict so I've changed it. I see how it could of been misunderstood. It was never mention to be took as such.

Cheers!

 

[praiano63]

I have a lounge at suzuka where i tune alone on the track. "praiano's lounge" it appear like this. If somebody want to tune, drive , Welcome. I've a long time to spend here alone and it's a little bit empty around here.

 

[No_OBsT33R]

I have a lounge at suzuka where i tune alone on the track. "praiano's lounge" it appear like this. If somebody want to tune, drive , Welcome. I've a long time to spend here alone and it's a little bit empty around here.

If I was on PSN I'd be down Buddy.

All the meaningless BS aside.

Praiano, I don't think you stole anything from me, regardless if my tune was or was not on your car when you went to the Track Tuning.

While I haven't been insulting I've been arrogant and I apologize.

Thumbs up, keep up the good work

I do not want to belittle your thread/ garage, if I have or it has even appeared so for that too I apologize.

Cheers!

 

[praiano63]

If I was on PSN I'd be down Buddy.

All the meaningless BS aside.

Praiano, I don't think you stole anything from me, regardless if my tune was or was not on your car when you went to the Track Tuning.

While I haven't been insulting I've been arrogant and I apologize.

Thumbs up, keep up the good work

I do not want to belittle your thread/ garage, if I have or it has even appeared so for that too I apologize.

Cheers!

No problems Noobster, everything ok... Let's drive.

 

[Adrenaline]

However, I still find it NOT as similar as Praiano's and mine, while equally similar in some areas, Praiano's and mine share EXACT values in multiple fields, not just similar or close, but EXACT. I see only one exact in JC's. How exactly is Mine more similar to JC's then Praiano's to mine??? It's not.

It is.

Praiano's tune and yours have 4 settings that are exact:
Downforce, Front Spring, Rear Sway, Rear Camber.
Your tune and JC's have 3 settings that are exact:
Downforce, Front Extension, Front Camber.

What indicates that you stole your tune and that Praiano didn't is below:
For shocks, JC used lower numerically in front, higher in rear and you followed suit. Praiano on the other hand, used Higher Front, Lower rear.
The next thing would be ARB's, where JC has them equal front to back at 4/4, you also copied his method here, and used the same ratio front to back with 6/6, but again, Praiano used a different front to rear ratio, with 4/6 which can be significant in handling characteristics.
Then brake balance, JC used a 6/5, you again applied the same difference that you did on the ARB's just changing the values by 2 each to appear as if you changed them with a 4/3, where surprise surprise, Praiano used reverse setting, where his rear brake balance was higher than the front.

So, you can see how the trends are eerily similar with your tune and JC's, but then appear to be completely reversed with your tune and Praiano's. Meaning it's far less likely that Praiano copied your tune, because the balance front to back is completely different, but your tune follows nearly every pattern of JC's.

I can make 2 tunes, 1 that doesn't share a single value with yours, and 1 that shares 50% of the values with yours. Do you know which one would be stolen? The one that shares 0 values. Patterns, trends, and similarities are far more telling tales than matching numbers.

 

[No_OBsT33R]

It is.

Praiano's tune and yours have 4 settings that are exact:
Downforce, Front Spring, Rear Sway, Rear Camber.
Your tune and JC's have 3 settings that are exact:
Downforce, Front Extension, Front Camber.

What indicates that you stole your tune and that Praiano didn't is below:
For shocks, JC used lower numerically in front, higher in rear and you followed suit. Praiano on the other hand, used Higher Front, Lower rear.
The next thing would be ARB's, where JC has them equal front to back at 4/4, you also copied his method here, and used the same ratio front to back with 6/6, but again, Praiano used a different front to rear ratio, with 4/6 which can be significant in handling characteristics.
Then brake balance, JC used a 6/5, you again applied the same difference that you did on the ARB's just changing the values by 2 each to appear as if you changed them with a 4/3, where surprise surprise, Praiano used reverse setting, where his rear brake balance was higher than the front.

So, you can see how the trends are eerily similar with your tune and JC's, but then appear to be completely reversed with your tune and Praiano's. Meaning it's far less likely that Praiano copied your tune, because the balance front to back is completely different, but your tune follows nearly every pattern of JC's.

I can make 2 tunes, 1 that doesn't share a single value with yours, and 1 that shares 50% of the values with yours. Do you know which one would be stolen? The one that shares 0 values. Patterns, trends, and similarities are far more telling tales than matching numbers.

To beat a dead horse..,

How many People with a wing use anything less than full DF on the back wing and how often? So even mentioning it is ridiculous.

Dampers, they have 10 variables and generally follow a similar pattern from car to car let alone set up to set up, again mentioning it is meaningless, as the potentially different variables is so small.

Camber while this one is the one out of the 3 with the widest range, they too have the same similarities at times car to car let alone set up to set up. However I give this one (as I said "1") as it is exact.

The Spring rates have 150 potential variations. The camber has 50. The toe has 50. For 3 out of the 4 variables in the entire suspension with the highest range of variables having exact matches is less probable then Damper & laughably rear wing downforce having exact matched settings.

But I've already made my position clear. I don't care. It means nothing one way or the other. I think he genuinely tuned his own tune, I've already explained why.

I've apologized for any arrogance I have displayed to Praiano, we have moved on, what's your problem now?

 

[praiano63]

LOTUS EVORA '09 online tune edition.

UPDATED 17/08/2011

Tuned to the max with aero kit.

Transmission how to process:
1- Select .reset to default
2- Select final gear at 3777
3- Select top speed at 310 km/h= 192,6 mph
4- Set each gear at this ratio:
1: 2881
2: 2117
3: 1634
4: 1301
5: 1070
6: 0908

It 'll give a top speed (above on the right) of 294 km/h = 182,7 mph

Tracks: All around / adapt with final gear to each track (if necessary) and do fine tune (if necessary)

power 486 hp
weight 1102 kg
perf. points 569 pp

Downforce 00/20

LSD Rear 12/42/15

Ride Height -20/-10

Spring Rate 15.8/15.0
Extension 5/5
Compression 6/4
Anti-roll bars 3/5

Camber 2.0/2.2
Toe -0.06/+0.09

Brake Balance 6/4

tires: Sport soft / Sport soft // Support any Racing tires

Enjoy.

 

[Adrenaline]

I've apologized for any arrogance I have displayed to Praiano, we have moved on, what's your problem now?

You asked "How exactly is Mine more similar to JC's then Praiano's to mine???"
I answered, don't cry, have a and a Coke and move on. See ya!

 

[No_OBsT33R]

You asked "How exactly is Mine more similar to JC's then Praiano's to mine???"
I answered, don't cry, have a and a Coke and move on. See ya!

You only showed irrelevant similarities. Nothing you have shown substantiates a closer resemblance but quite the contrary. They show just how much more similar Praiano's and mine are. I already explained why, no need to keep repeating myself. You really think a match out of 10 variables (4 to 5 of them usually not used, making it closer to a match out of 6 variable, meaning the setting has a range of 6 possibilities) is the same as a match out of 150 variables (150 possibilities)???? Funny, we disagree.

However, once seeing Pariano and I have moved on, continuing to post on the subject is nothing more then an attempt to drag it out further.

This being dragged out any further well after all positions have been made and the 2 parties involved have moved on is not good for the thread, I'm sure the owner of this Garage (as well as I) are both over it...

I do have a Coke, and a (glass bottle too) I have a bag Dorito's Nacho Cheeze also Some Steaks when I get home going on the Grill I haven't had a Beer in 10 years. I often enjoy a Coke and a Thanks

 

[killerjimbag]

Wow didn't you already post that?

SR = Front EXACT same / rear + 2%

Camber = front + 6% / rear EXACT same

Toe = front + 4% / rear + 14%

In the suspension these are the settings with the widest ranging variables, and even still there is an average of only 4% difference, if any at all.

I'm crazy?!? lol, if you say so, lol

He didn't use all of my tune, just the entire suspension minus the dampers.

Oh yeah, Only 4% difference among the largest variables in the suspension, an average of 2.5 mm difference in height drop front to rear, & an average of 1 click difference in ARB's.....

Ummm yeah, I'm crazy, lol. I can see the obvious....

I must be CrAzY lol

Are you freaking serious? So the tune I posted in February is similar to yours.So am I going to come on here and say you stole my suspension settings or he did because they are off by 1 or 2. Maybe it's the fact that they work? I see no patent or disclaimer on here that tunes cannot be similar.Get on with your life and go tune something else.Maybe you should have a beer,stop eating Doritos and drinking Coke.That stuff will make you fat.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Praiano - I came here to ask you what you've noticed between online and offline tuning. What adjustments are you finding you need to make taking offline tunes into online? I have been able to make small LSD adjustments and most cars responded well. What are you noticing?

Also, I was sad to see that Noobsteer has poisoned yet another tuning forum thread. How many threads on the first page today have him starting a fight with someone? Looking for the ignore button...

 

[praiano63]

Hi people. I did'nt have the time today to read anything, but it seems that there is a war in my garage.
Later i'll check all this, but i want to talk about car only. No blablabla.
Things are diferent online yes. I'll explain what i've found later at night, lot o job now. See you in a few hours....