Presidential Election: 2012

  • Thread starter Omnis
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I have to agree with Dr Paul this time around too. Voting for any one else seems like sheer lunacy at this point in our decline. I really just hope that America wakes up in time to save itself, far too many of our sheep are still voting based on abortion and gay marriage instead of focusing on the much bigger picture. :dunce:

I agree and disagree but. When someone stands up for their rights that does not make them sheep......... The only sheep are the ones that vote to support people fighting for their rights with no benefit to them. Here's looking at you Milwaukee ;)
 
You know what pissed me off? When they first announced Michele being the possible candidate, I heard her surname as "Batman" instead of "Bachmann".

Damn, so many funny headlines ruined.
 
I have to agree with Dr Paul this time around too. Voting for any one else seems like sheer lunacy at this point in our decline. I really just hope that America wakes up in time to save itself, far too many of our sheep are still voting based on abortion and gay marriage instead of focusing on the much bigger picture. :dunce:

I've said it somewhere else on this site, I believe people vote based on integrity and morals, we don't need to know every instance and problem the gov faces if we vote people in who think as we do. TBH I don't want to know or have to be involved with all of that, if we find the right man then there is little reason for micro worries, to me that is the point of our type of republic.

2007
We live in times of great uncertainty when men of faith must stand up for our values and our traditions lest they be washed away in a sea of fear and relativism. As you likely know, I am running for President of the United States, and I am asking for your support.

I have never been one who is comfortable talking about my faith in the political arena. In fact, the pandering that typically occurs in the election season I find to be distasteful. But for those who have asked, I freely confess that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and that I seek His guidance in all that I do. I know, as you do, that our freedoms come not from man, but from God. My record of public service reflects my reverence for the Natural Rights with which we have been endowed by a loving Creator.

I have worked tirelessly to defend and restore those rights for all Americans, born and unborn alike. The right of an innocent, unborn child to life is at the heart of the American ideal of liberty. My professional and legislative record demonstrates my strong commitment to this pro-life principle. ...

....I am running for president to restore the rule of law and to stand up for our divinely inspired Constitution. I have never voted for legislation that is not specifically authorized by the Constitution. As president, I will never sign a piece of legislation, nor use the power of the executive, in a manner inconsistent with the limitations that the founders envisioned.

2004
If I were in Congress in 1996, I would have voted for the Defense of Marriage Act, which used Congress’s constitutional authority to define what official state documents other states have to recognize under the Full Faith and Credit Clause, to ensure that no state would be forced to recognize a “same sex” marriage license issued in another state....

....Conservatives in particular should be leery of anything that increases federal power, since centralized government power is traditionally the enemy of conservative values. I agree with the assessment of former Congressman Bob Barr, who authored the Defense of Marriage Act


The largest deciding factor between who voted for Bachmann or Paul(in the poll) is probably down to fiscal conservatism. Some still see Paul's ideas too radical I think, even though Bachmann probably want's to spend like no tomorrow. Foreign policy and war, probably make up the rest.

I looked for a non agenda pushing site(yeah right) to see the major differences between the two. Bachmann likes the Patriot Act, and likes war, while Paul does not like either. The site has a 'head-to-head' voting record tool, but it's not working atm, or at least for me it's not working. Here is a direct link to the comparison but the whole site is pretty good 👍

http://www.opencongress.org/people/compare?representatives=true

Not that it maters, but I am not decided on a primary candidate. I won't vote for Bachmann though and Paul is not my ideal candidate. BTW the staw poll does not ever mean much does it?
 
The thing is, the last person to win both the Republican nomination and the Iowa straw poll did so in 1979. I could rest easy if it weren't for Perry.
 
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It seems as if Americans have the same problem we do down here. Because of the economy being in ruins, the citizens blame it on whoever is in charge at the time, then go and elect the opposition, and when the opposition goes into power, things still don't change, and the cycle continues. What proof do we have that Republicans can run America better? In fact, I don't see what the Democrats have done wrong since being in charge. Raising the debt ceiling causing war with China? You kidding me? The second the US and China go to war, trade stops, and China's economy collapses within hours.

I know, i'm not American, so my knowledge is very limited to what I hear on your news channels, not Fox News, they are so hopelessly biased and corrupt, it's just hilarious to tune in just to watch them do whatever they can to make Republicans look like Jesus and Democrats look like Hitler.
 
Sorry I am actually a bit puzzles as to how Bachman won that poll. From what I read/saw she is a complete idiot with massive homophobia and extremist Christian views. Does she have any policies which people find appealing?
 
I've already answered your questions here, as did Foolkiller right after.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=5382573#post5382573

Peter
What proof do we have that Republicans can run America better? In fact, I don't see what the Democrats have done wrong since being in charge

I'll try again. Republicans have the majority in the house atm, democrats have the senate and the presidency, I've already told you this.

The only proof required here is in reading our laws, you will find we have elections regardless how well or poor our officials are doing. What we are trying to discuss here is called a presidential primary election, the winner will not become president, the winner will win the right to run against Obama when his first term is up, in the presidential election. Don't worry, he can be re-elected and serve four more years, does that make you happy?
 
I know about re-election by law, mind you, we do it here as well. But all I ever hear is Obama being replaced, which implies that he's doing a bad job, and I can't see what he's doing wrong.
 
Sorry I am actually a bit puzzles as to how Bachman won that poll. From what I read/saw she is a complete idiot with massive homophobia and extremist Christian views. Does she have any policies which people find appealing?
She's a native Iowan, born and raised for much of her youth.

I know about re-election by law, mind you, we do it here as well. But all I ever hear is Obama being replaced, which implies that he's doing a bad job, and I can't see what he's doing wrong.
A better question would be, what isn't he doing wrong? And the answer to that is nothing, unless you support nationalization of the private sector, continued tremendous and unsustainable government debt, expansion of undeclared, unconstitutional, and pointless wars around the world, and increased taxes on an already beaten and battered economy.

The news is that Tim Pawlenty has exited the race today.

The article talks a lot about Bachmann and Perry, of all people. It mentions Ron Paul's results in the straw poll but doesn't include him in discussion of the actual race, or chances of winning. Apparently this author doesn't think he is a very strong contender. As for what Pawlenty will do, I can't decide. He might endorse Bachmann because they're both from Minnesota and she (so far) has good chances. He might endorse Ron Paul as a resentment to Bachmann. He might endorse Perry, but I really don't know why anybody talks about that guy. Can anybody explain him to me? Besides him, so far I'm seeing a 50/50 chance of Pawlenty endorsing Bachmann or Paul somewhere along the line.
 
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A better question would be, what isn't he doing wrong? And the answer to that is nothing, unless you support nationalization of the private sector, continued tremendous and unsustainable government debt, expansion of undeclared, unconstitutional, and pointless wars around the world, and increased taxes on an already beaten and battered economy.

Ohh, and the Republicans will do a much better job? Obama must have his reasons for doing whatever he's doing "wrong", you think he's intentionally ruining your country? No, why would he? You can listen to Fox news and the Republicans promising that they will do a much better job all you want, but unless they show some real evidence that Obama is running American into the ground and that they will restore America's economy and reduce its debt, I think it's better for Obama to see out his full 2 terms and finish what he started with America.
 
If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and acts like a duck, I don't need 4 more years to see if it's a duck.

Republicans won't do a better job. Ron Paul probably will, but the GOP establishment pretends he is invisible for a reason.
 
...you think he's intentionally ruining your country?
That's basically what he and his cronies have done in Chicago's south side ghettos. That's what has been done near where I live in Cincinnati's Over-the-Rhine. There is no other explanation for what has been done in inner-cities around the country.

Politicians and social workers take away the personal responsibility of poorer class people and place it in the government's hands. The poor typically being undereducated believe what lines the politicians tell them, and are hopeful because of the promises they make. They promises never happen because the politicians lied. The people are left poor with nowhere to live, so politicians set up areas in urban environments where they can live in government housing and whatnot. This runs all the wealthier people from the area, to the suburbs. The same politicians that made the poor people dependent on the government also gave them cheap or free housing, so they are grateful. The politicians say they're going to do this and do that, and it sounds good, and these poor people are guaranteed votes because they don't understand the big picture. Most of the time you can hear them complaining about their way of life, and the white man this and the white man that. Actually, most all the politicians from Chicago that have intentionally designed such a tragic poverty situation are all black - the same color as the people whose lives they've nearly erased from the map.

It's not a far-out conspiracy, the stripping away of personal responsibility, virtually mandating government dependency, and locking entire populations into poverty has happened in virtually every big city around the country with a notable minority population. Here in Ohio you can see it in Cleveland, Dayton, something awful in Cincinatti. Chicago's history of politics and social advocacy is a joke around the country.

These people do everything they can to control these populations and abuse their power. They have god-complexes, and they're not happy until they're making a population's decisions for them. Pretty much all the middle-class people in my area and Cincinnati - being well aware of the treatment of minorities by politicians through the years - was scared of Obama and his associates' history in Chicago. Fact is, they're trying to control everything because that is what government always tries to do. There are numerous examples throughout history.

You can listen to Fox news and the Republicans...
I don't simply "vote Republican", and anyone who does is terribly misguided. I vote based on a person's adherence to the Constitution and sound economics, which are things only a select few politicians have been passionate about their whole lives.
 
After watching the debates the other night, I can safely say I think Bachmann would be the worse possible person we could elect to this country. She's another joke that has made her way into the political scene, much like Sarah Palin. Both women give female politicians everywhere a really bad name in my opinion.

As for who would do the best as the Republican nomination? As much as I don't like him, I think Ron Paul would probably do the best job. I don't mind Jon Huntsman, Jr. either, but I doubt he'll get enough traction to gain ground. If Paul were to secure the nomination I would have to see who his running mate would be before deciding whether or not to cast a vote for him.

I know I will not vote for Obama in 2012 for one main reason, he got us into more wars when he said he would bring the troops home. I think one of the biggest drains on our country's revenue is bombing third world nations. If Obama would have ended the wars and ceased getting us into any more, I probably would have voted for him.

Oh and seriously? This guy has thrown his hat into the ring for the GOP nomination? :lol:

jsharkey.jpg
 
^ That looks like the unholy offspring of The Undertaker and Paul Bearer. Blame my brother's love of the WWE SvR series for me knowing that.
 
If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and acts like a duck, I don't need 4 more years to see if it's a duck.

Republicans won't do a better job. Ron Paul probably will, but the GOP establishment pretends he is invisible for a reason.

Ron Paul is unelectable based on foreign policy. He needs to moderate himself on that issue, it's the only way he'll get any traction from voters. I'm a libertarian and I still couldn't vote for him based on his foreign policy statements.
 
I agree and disagree but. When someone stands up for their rights that does not make them sheep......... The only sheep are the ones that vote to support people fighting for their rights with no benefit to them. Here's looking at you Milwaukee ;)

I've said it somewhere else on this site, I believe people vote based on integrity and morals, we don't need to know every instance and problem the gov faces if we vote people in who think as we do. TBH I don't want to know or have to be involved with all of that, if we find the right man then there is little reason for micro worries, to me that is the point of our type of republic.

This is my concern, that people do vote based on 'morals' derived from centuries old forms of social control (ie religion) instead of the real and actual pressing issues that threaten to destroy us. Gay marriage threatens nothing but homophobic notions of what a family is. Abortion should really be a non issue by this point as well! If we don't have a viable country to live in, then none of these social issues amount to anything. These 'morals' benefit no one if there is no nation left.

ChaosStar79, IMO this is a great example of clear thinking!
If we're fighting and broke, our ability to accomplish anything worthwhile is greatly diminished; there's not much point in focusing on it. You've rightly identified that we should deal with first things first.

Respectfully,
Steve
Thank you sir. My hope is that many others will join us in this line of thought.

That's basically what he and his cronies have done in Chicago's south side ghettos. That's what has been done near where I live in Cincinnati's Over-the-Rhine. There is no other explanation for what has been done in inner-cities around the country.

I agree 100 percent. I'm just south of Covington KY and I know exactly the situation you are talking about. From the streetcar money pit to the ridiculously failed school system, Cincy is falling apart at the seams. Mayor Mallory isn't exactly a shining beacon of hope either, and until people realize what is going on and what is causing it, it will never change.
 
Both sides are just awful, and I'm sure there will be plenty of people saying "just go with the lesser of two evils" but if you eliminate the problem at the get go then you wont have the say that come election day. I think people once again are getting sold on propoganda, hence why a crazy like Bachmann is in the run and actually liked by a growing number. Then you have the left saying that "maybe we should have voted hillary", but I recall things like Whitewater, Travelgate, and then the vote to go to Iraq and afterward coming out saying no regret. Bottomline these jokes either have money over real solutions or their gimmick sales to the public and many are so easily swayed. Then we have you dems (Pepsi) vs repubs (Coke) that have so much loyalty to the parties that you'd sale your kid if it meant your party had power. I'd like to see Ron Paul win seeing as I'm a Independent and he really is more so that, than a republican. He seems to only belong to them to gain traction and a fighting chance to win, since third parties dont have much image in this nation and they all cant be Ross Perots.
 
After watching the debates the other night, I can safely say I think Bachmann would be the worse possible person we could elect to this country. She's another joke that has made her way into the political scene, much like Sarah Palin. Both women give female politicians everywhere a really bad name in my opinion.

As for who would do the best as the Republican nomination? As much as I don't like him, I think Ron Paul would probably do the best job. I don't mind Jon Huntsman, Jr. either, but I doubt he'll get enough traction to gain ground. If Paul were to secure the nomination I would have to see who his running mate would be before deciding whether or not to cast a vote for him.

I know I will not vote for Obama in 2012 for one main reason, he got us into more wars when he said he would bring the troops home. I think one of the biggest drains on our country's revenue is bombing third world nations. If Obama would have ended the wars and ceased getting us into any more, I probably would have voted for him.

You have to say though, that Obama did, in 2 years, what the Republicans under Bush failed to do, which was to catch the World's most wanted man. I mean, if he pulled all soldiers out of war, the Taliban would've strengthened, bin Laden probably would still be alive, and America would be at even more serious threat of another terrorism attack. He did what he had to do to keep the US safe.
 
You have to say though, that Obama did, in 2 years, what the Republicans under Bush failed to do, which was to catch the World's most wanted man. I mean, if he pulled all soldiers out of war, the Taliban would've strengthened, bin Laden probably would still be alive, and America would be at even more serious threat of another terrorism attack. He did what he had to do to keep the US safe.

The US has even more of a threat now for a terrorist attack because we turned bin Ladin into a martyr and we are even more involved in the affairs of the Middle East...which is why they were terrorising us in the first place.

And funny thing is special ops bagged bin Ladin, not a bunch of grunts on the ground shooting up caves. Bring a majority of the forces home and let the spec ops guys do any of the clean up work. They are more efficient and cost a helluva lot less then having the entire army over there. Plus if McCain would have been elected Osama would have eventually been captured, the figure head didn't matter all that much.

The best way to keep the US safe is to quit involving us in other countries' affairs when they don't directly affect us in any way.
 
You have to say though, that Obama did, in 2 years, what the Republicans under Bush failed to do, which was to catch the World's most wanted man. I mean, if he pulled all soldiers out of war, the Taliban would've strengthened, bin Laden probably would still be alive, and America would be at even more serious threat of another terrorism attack. He did what he had to do to keep the US safe.

Do you know your history of the United States that well? First off Clinton didn't have any better luck and neither did Bush as you pointed out. However, during Bush there was an oppurtunity to kill him in Tora Bora and it didn't happen. My question is why not then but now under Obama, then you go on about how if he pulled out then the Taliban would resurge. The fact is the same things were said under bush when they wanted to pull out under him. So you're doing a republican talking point in a democrat mind frame:ouch:. America has been doing just fine for ten years now with Osama alive so to think that he'd some how get us good holds little water seeing as we could find him and watch him. Also even if we pulled the troops out, CIA and SOCOM just don't stop operating they do function in "peace time" so really they would have still caught him war or no war. You're making talking points for Obama like people did for Bush and it's not right on either side. Last but not least Obama made promises in 2007 while campaigning to make the war pullout his first priority, yet instead troop number have been uped more than once and he still isn't going to take out the troops anytime soon.
 
The US has even more of a threat now for a terrorist attack because we turned bin Ladin into a martyr and we are even more involved in the affairs of the Middle East...which is why they were terrorising us in the first place.

And funny thing is special ops bagged bin Ladin, not a bunch of grunts on the ground shooting up caves. Bring a majority of the forces home and let the spec ops guys do any of the clean up work. They are more efficient and cost a helluva lot less then having the entire army over there. Plus if McCain would have been elected Osama would have eventually been captured, the figure head didn't matter all that much.

The best way to keep the US safe is to quit involving us in other countries' affairs when they don't directly affect us in any way.
I think their thought process might have been this: Well, bin Laden won't be anywhere that the army is, so let's just put the army everywhere (Iraq and Afghanistan) and then send Spec Ops to the one spot we missed (Pakistan). Voila, bin Laden!

Ron Paul is unelectable based on foreign policy. He needs to moderate himself on that issue, it's the only way he'll get any traction from voters. I'm a libertarian and I still couldn't vote for him based on his foreign policy statements.
Have fun with that bankruptcy there bub. All I know is Germany isn't set to start a world war any time soon so there is no point in having our troops there.
 
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I think it's gonna be Ron Paul. I think he will eventually come ahead of Bachmann nationally, because there will be no Iowan bias.

I am not a fan of Obama by any political means, and honestly, besides Ron Paul or Herman Cain, I don't think I could vote for ANY of the GOP candidates without feeling guilty leaving the booth. I welcome Ron Paul's success, and I certainly believe he can run the country well.
 
I'm really hoping the home field advantage was the only reason that she (Bachmann) even placed in the polls. It will be interesting to see the next few polls and debates and see if Ron Paul does continue to pull in huge numbers while she slips off. The media here is trying so hard to obscure him as much as possible but if enough people get behind him, I don't know that they will be able to continue ignoring him for too long.
 
Ron Paul is unelectable based on foreign policy. He needs to moderate himself on that issue, it's the only way he'll get any traction from voters. I'm a libertarian and I still couldn't vote for him based on his foreign policy statements.

The only problem I have with his foreign policy is that we'd have to build a totally new infrastructure for all the returning troops. For all the troops we have in Germany, Korea, and Japan, there would be no way to accommodate them without a major overhaul of the facilities across the country.

But I think he takes that position partly because it's the most politically viable option to fix the financial issues and free the young people from being stuck on a sinking ship. Cutting anything out of the entitlement system is politically impossible, but at least the cuts in foreign expenditures could afford us the opportunity to opt out while still taking care of the dependents.
 
The only problem I have with his foreign policy is that we'd have to build a totally new infrastructure for all the returning troops.

I was in an intimate lecture and Q&A session on a local college campus with Dr. Paul during the last election cycle. When he responded to audience questions about how rapidly his "radical" plans for reform of our foreign policy or economy could be effected, he tactfully replied that it could only happen in realistic and manageable steps. Even if the good doctor is elected, he is fully aware that change cannot come instantly, and he is not promising that if you listen carefully.

Even though I believe with all my heart and think with all my brain that Ron Paul is right on the major issues of our day - War and Debt - I fear that he is vulnerable to demonization on secondary social issues drummed up by media.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve
 
Have fun with that bankruptcy there bub. All I know is Germany isn't set to start a world war any time soon so there is no point in having our troops there.

I'd be happy to pull everything we have out of Germany and most of the rest of the world. But he's absolutely 100% wrong about not enforcing the nuclear non-proliferation treaty with Iran.

His isolationist zealotry isn't going to keep us safe, and the belief that it will is a conceit that we can't afford to make. It pretends that we're so powerful that we actually cause all of our own problems - which simply isn't true.

Don't get me wrong, I think we need to pull troops back in a major way. I think our military is exceptionally wasteful, and I think he's right to poke at it. But he has basically advertised (pre-election) that he's willing to sit by idle and let Iran violate the NPT. When he takes office, what do you think they'll do? What do you think other signatories of the NPT will do? What kind of message does that send to the rest of the world about any and all of the treaties they've signed with the US under a Ron Paul administration?

It's a real shame, because I like almost all of his message, but he's damned reckless on this issue and I think it makes him look completely inadequate for the commander in chief role.

It's not an all-or-nothing situation. We don't go bankrupt just because we're willing to enforce our treaties. We don't have to have troops stationed all around the world and continue to occupy other countries just to enforce our treaties. It's not a question of bankruptcy vs. let everyone do whatever they want regardless of what they promised us.

The only problem I have with his foreign policy is that we'd have to build a totally new infrastructure for all the returning troops. For all the troops we have in Germany, Korea, and Japan, there would be no way to accommodate them without a major overhaul of the facilities across the country.

Korea is another good example where we need to not pull the troops home, at least not all of them. Japan, Germany, that's fine. Almost everyone in Iraq and Afghanistan can come home too. Korea is another NPT issue that we need to be vigilant about.

I have no doubt that we need to roll off the troops slowly and carefully and I also have no doubt that we could manage to do this under a ron paul administration perfectly fine. That's not a real issue, and I think you're well aware of that. I think it's reckless to let these countries take a lighter to our treaties without consequences. It undermines all of our current foreign policy and will weaken our position for many years to come. Even worse than letting them crap on our treaties is telling them ahead of time to feel free to do so because we won't do anything about it.

Edit: Unless he can do some serious backtracking, I think he should pull out of the race for presidency and let someone who hasn't gone on record as advertising our treaties as worthless come forward. Even the libertarian party should shy away from the guy at this point.
 
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