Presidential Election: 2012

[hambone8611]

Life experience? As in a life of living paycheck to paycheck, their existence seemingly bound to whether or not they make their house payments on time, leaving them worrying day in and day out with no time left to teach themselves anything but what is absolutely necessary? Their life experience pertains to their life and nothing else. If it weren't for my efforts neither of my parents would have ever connected the dots of historic events that happened in their own lifetimes and never would have embraced my ideas about the world at large, but they do now because they realized there was no support for their contradictory and hypocritical positions. Same goes for the 10 other guys I work with, none of them with college experience (not that it really matters), but all of them fans of Harleys and guns and hunting, and all of them the type who win their arguments by bullying their opponent. That only lasted a little while until they realized all their "life experience" didn't count for squat.

Most of America is far too busy working to pay their bills to consider the things that actually matter to society at large. All I can do to help is try and convert these stubborn and misinformed baby boomers one by one.

EDIT: I've got a lot of kind words for whoever voted to have the government subsidize student college loans, making it difficult for private banks and credit unions to compete in the student loan market. Because of government subsidization, private loans are difficult to afford for tightly strapped families like my own, and that's before you consider the interest rates which are much higher than the government's own. Banks and credit unions can't simply print their own money to subsidize these services like the government can.

I sure as hell didn't vote for that, but whoever did should be greeted with a smile, politely corrected, and pursueded to take a free-market stance on the issue.

You must be amazed that we have managed to accomplish anything at all as a nation without your HUGE brain guiding the way, and for the record not all of us lacking collage education live paycheck to paycheck and have to worry how we are going to make the mortgage payment

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Should Paul be knocked out, I don't see him splitting from the GOP at this late juncture. Number one, much of his doctrine has penetrated the thick skulls in politics and media - hey, if the college kids can grok it, why not the old folks??

Number two, he has invested a lifetime raising a fine son who is now a Republican Senator and being mentioned for the GOP nomination of '16.

So would he potentially scupper these long-term achievements for a last grab at the ring for his own gratification? I think he has been playing a longer game all along.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

Old folks usually are set in their ways. I've tried to talk to them about politics and they still think that everyone is the enemy at times. Or they're entitled to all they see (exaggerated). Paul will need a lot more, Romney is different he'll say the old GOP lines and the Neo-Con lines that old people eat up because they still think America is in the Era of their prime and youth.

The young and old crowd are quite different. Youth can see the world changing and evolving around them and see Paul making a new day that isn't of the norm. While old people want to be stuck (not all) in a non-changing society but still yammer on and blame the system that they don't want to change and rather stick to.

 

[Keef]

You must be amazed that we have managed to accomplish anything at all as a nation without your HUGE brain guiding the way, and for the record not all of us lacking collage education live paycheck to paycheck and have to worry how we are going to make the mortgage payment

Kids like myself have grown up in the Information Age we all live in now, where virtually anything you want to know can easily be found. Anything we hear can be verified with little effort. Everything we learned as little kids - the do-as-I-say baby boomer mentality - is being questioned now that we're old enough to not only think for ourselves (everybody reaches that age eventually) but also to sit down in our room and find out if our parents are right or not (something that would have been unthinkable to try in my dad's 20s). Those older folks grew up in, oh, let's call it the Age of Ignorance, when you never questioned authority because you were told not to, and didn't have the resources to try anyway. The scare tactics and bullying mentality held them down and dictated their ways for 40 years until a few of them started to embrace information technology. But even if they have it, it seems they need to be prompted to question the things they hear because old habits die hard.

So am I saying that older generations, despite all their life and work experience, are generally dumber than younger folks like myself? Yes, I am. Obviously I have a very different mentality than my 85 year old grandma, whose usefulness to society has run its course, and who makes political choices - choices which affect everybody in the country - based on the idea that she is entitled to be cared for by everybody else because of all her great contributions to society or whatever. She's entitled, and therefore everybody else should be forced to take care of her through welfare taxes, as opposed to her family and friends helping her out of their own good will. Social Security is one of the points I'm getting at. Passed in 1935, most Americans never argued against it until now, when a large majority of young people see very clearly that the program is bogus and has been for over 75 years.

 

[Conza]

Sorry, what? First time in the opinions & current events thread eh?



All I can say to that is

It says "Opinions", I don't have to justify it, but I will if necessary.

Yuck? Really? Who do you favour? Mr. Robot Romney, or Geeser Paul, or 3 tiers of Government Perry, or a** juice? Those are what I call

 

[YSSMAN]

So am I saying that older generations, despite all their life and work experience, are generally dumber than younger folks like myself? Yes, I am.

They'll believe just about anything put in front of them, particularly if it comes from their e-mail chain or from Fox News. Combine that with their inability to sacrifice, much less compromise... And we're overdue for a derailment in social and governmental social circles. Oh wait...

Young people, even when we differ politically, we at least attempt to be nice about it.

 

[paracefan2002]

To whomever said I was "trolling," clearly is a jerk, among other things that can't be posted. I was just interested in how people feel about President Obama. I voted for Obama in 2008 as well as volunteering for his campaign.

 

[Keef]

To whomever said I was "trolling," clearly is a jerk, among other things that can't be posted. I was just interested in how people feel about President Obama. I voted for Obama in 2008 as well as volunteering for his campaign.

Lol. An Obama supporter would exclaim his support and then leave the thread, only to return ten days later not to defend trolling accusations, and not to discuss reasons for his support, but only to call somebody an idiot.

 

[hambone8611]

Kids like myself have grown up in the Information Age we all live in now, where virtually anything you want to know can easily be found. Anything we hear can be verified with little effort. Everything we learned as little kids - the do-as-I-say baby boomer mentality - is being questioned now that we're old enough to not only think for ourselves (everybody reaches that age eventually) but also to sit down in our room and find out if our parents are right or not (something that would have been unthinkable to try in my dad's 20s). Those older folks grew up in, oh, let's call it the Age of Ignorance, when you never questioned authority because you were told not to, and didn't have the resources to try anyway. The scare tactics and bullying mentality held them down and dictated their ways for 40 years until a few of them started to embrace information technology. But even if they have it, it seems they need to be prompted to question the things they hear because old habits die hard.

So am I saying that older generations, despite all their life and work experience, are generally dumber than younger folks like myself? Yes, I am. Obviously I have a very different mentality than my 85 year old grandma, whose usefulness to society has run its course, and who makes political choices - choices which affect everybody in the country - based on the idea that she is entitled to be cared for by everybody else because of all her great contributions to society or whatever. She's entitled, and therefore everybody else should be forced to take care of her through welfare taxes, as opposed to her family and friends helping her out of their own good will. Social Security is one of the points I'm getting at. Passed in 1935, most Americans never argued against it until now, when a large majority of young people see very clearly that the program is bogus and has been for over 75 years.

At what age do I become dumb? Since I’ll be 46 this month that’s useful information. And if I agree with you politically have I dodged that bullet? Oh and that low interest tax money putting you through collage your welcome, I truly don’t have a problem with you soaking up my tax dollars in the same manner your grandmother does, it’s a good investment, however I have a couple of employees that hate to contribute to that sort of thing, Oh well we all hate paying taxes to one program or another so in that life truly is fair.

 

[FoolKiller]

Lol. An Obama supporter would exclaim his support and then leave the thread, only to return ten days later not to defend trolling accusations, and not to discuss reasons for his support, but only to call somebody an idiot.

Let's play nice, guys.

Just stating your opinion then leaving the thread is fine, but you will be questioned as to why. And if you think otherwise you clearly didn't read any of the thread to see what the environment is like first, which goes against all common sense and general forum etiquette. It is the equivalent of going into a GOP caucus and walking up to the microphone and saying, "I support Obama," and walking out.

And making unfavorable remarks about an entire group because of one person's actions (silly or not) is uncool too. Kerf, as a Ron Paul supporter you should already know what it is like to get lumped in with unsavory people.



All that said: It appears Huntsman is out. I've seen it all over. He will announce tomorrow and throw support behind Romney.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/01/huntsman-to-drop-out-of-gop-race/

It is official, Huntsman has joined the anyone but Obama ranks. Did no one learn from 2008 that blind anti-incumbent voting doesn't get you what you want?


As for Romney: WTH? I know no one that openly supports him. Where are these voters coming from? I know supporters for every other candidate, because every Republican I know remembers Romney flip-flopped when he went from Massachusetts state politician to national politician. I just want to meet a Romney supporter so I can understand their thought process.

 

[Keef]

At what age do I become dumb? Since I’ll be 46 this month that’s useful information. And if I agree with you politically have I dodged that bullet?

It seems people do learn new things as they get older. It also seems that by the time a child graduates high school at 18, his parents who also graduated at 18, now 45, possess a foundational picture of the world and set of problem solving skills that are 27 years outdated. I'm 23 now and I'm already complaining about having to relearn half the stuff they taught me in high school, and reinventing the way I solve problems now that technology has evolved so drastically and become so affordable just in the past 10 years. By the time the Information Age came along my parents' adult lives had already been established for decades. At 60 and 63 they're a bit older than you, but I still feel you're in a minority of people your age who are fluent with technology.

Oh and that low interest tax money putting you through collage your welcome, I truly don’t have a problem with you soaking up my tax dollars in the same manner your grandmother does, it’s a good investment, however I have a couple of employees that hate to contribute to that sort of thing, Oh well we all hate paying taxes to one program or another so in that life truly is fair.

I don't want to use Federal loans. The first place I went was my credit union, but I couldn't afford that to begin with because I wasn't allowed to defer the interest until after graduation, and my parents couldn't afford to risk cosigning a $60,000 loan. I later discovered that the Federal loans had half the interest and no payments were due until 6 months after I graduated. I had to take that option because the government had priced the banks out of my league and made competition between them virtually pointless. The government's own GSE, Sallie Mae, couldn't compete with the Federal loans.

I didn't vote for them, and I wouldn't use them if I didn't have to. I'm also supporting the only candidate on the stage who wants to abolish Federal student aid. I believe the free market could compete for better offers if it were allowed to.

 

[Keef]

Huntsman to drop out and endorse Romney.

Not even his super hot daughters could keep him in for the long run.

 

[Dapper]

It seems people do learn new things as they get older. It also seems that by the time a child graduates high school at 18, his parents who also graduated at 18, now 45, possess a foundational picture of the world and set of problem solving skills that are 27 years outdated...

They are right. That time ago is when Ron Paul-esque style of government started to happen and when the average American income became stagnant.

edit- Obama 2012!

 

[arora]

That time ago is when Ron Paul-esque style of government started to happen

When was that, 1787?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

When was that, 1787?

Exactly that's what I want to know as well.

 

[paracefan2002]

Lol. An Obama supporter would exclaim his support and then leave the thread, only to return ten days later not to defend trolling accusations, and not to discuss reasons for his support, but only to call somebody an idiot.

Keef, i support Obama b/c of his healthcare reform, FINALLY getting out of Iraq (that war should have NEVER HAPPENED) and even though i am anti-war, he ended DADT!

 

[Keef]

Keef, i support Obama b/c of his healthcare reform, FINALLY getting out of Iraq (that war should have NEVER HAPPENED) and even though i am anti-war, he ended DADT!

He recently removed many American military troops from Iraq, yes, but he hasn't touched military contractor companies. Those are basically mercenaries which are actually even more expensive to pay than our own military. They're still over there.

Obama also supported the extension of the Patriot Act, which is one reason we have the TSA hassling everybody at airports and overzealous security in general which assumes that everybody is a terrorist until they've been searched.

His recent signing of the National Defense Authorization Act was outrageous. Despite a clause which effectively gives the President the direct power to arrest and detain American citizens without charging them with any crime, he still signed the bill. He said he didn't like that part of the bill, but he still signed it anyway.

He also deferred the decision to start a war in Libya to the United Nations. The United States was directly involved in the conflict, but Obama avoided Congress in making the decision, and avoided even making the decision himself by going to the UN.

Generally, the policies that Obama has supported are almost identical to what George W. Bush did. I take that back - the only real difference is that Obama wasted even more money on unconstitutional bailouts and wars than GWB did.

But enough about him. You say you're anti-war, so I'm curious if you've considered any other presidential candidates. Ron Paul comes to my mind when I think anti-war; he has been preaching against meddling, undeclared wars for about 30 years during his long tenure in the House of Representatives. He thinks we should bring back all of our troops from Iraq, and has stated that would be the first thing on his list as President. What's your opinion of Ron Paul and his take on these wars?

 

[paracefan2002]

Keef, no I have not b/c I am a Quaker, a registered Democrat, and because Ron Paul's idea of eliminating ALL foreign aid is a dangerous idea. Also, you should checkout flipocrat.com to see a list of what President Obama has gotten accomplished. On a more personal level, most of the Republican contenders are talking about a ban on Gay marriage scares the crap out of me. I feel this way because my sister is a Lesbian who got marred this past September :-) btw click on the store button to view a t-shirt w/ the list I told you about.

 

[Tornado]

No president who made banning gay marriage a foundation of their campaign would ever actually win, nor would they be able to go through with it even if they managed to squeak in.

 

[paracefan2002]

even better, I copied the text for you:
VOTERS REMORSE?THE OBAMA SCORECARD: MIDDLE CLASS TAX CUT (LARGEST EVER) CHRYSLER SAVEDGM SAVED/GOVERNMENT LOANS REPAID800,000 MONTHLY JOB LOSSES NOW MONTHLY GAINS EDUCATION SPENDING INCREASED STUDENT LOAN COSTS DECREASED HATE CRIME LAWS STRENGTHENED*AFFORDABLE CARE ACT CHIPS EXPANDED ENFORCEMENT OF CHILD LABOR LAWS WALL STREET REFORM CREDIT CARD REFORM PREDATORY LENDING TO SOLDIERS RESTRICTED TROOPS PAID FOR STOP LOSS TIME TORTURE STOPPED VA SPENDING INCREASED WOMEN CAN SERVE ON SUBSEQUAL PAY FOR WOMEN NUCLEAR ARMS REDUCTION AND DISPOSAL BP AGREES TO $20 BILLION CLEAN-UP FUND(WHICH SAVES US TAXPAYERS $20 BILLION)*EPA STRENGTHENED FDA POWERS BROADENED 9/11 RESPONDERS HEALTHCARE FUNDING DADT REPEALED THIS IS A BIG #!$@ DEAL FOR FIRST 2 YEARS

 

[paracefan2002]

No president who made banning gay marriage a foundation of their campaign would ever actually win, nor would they be able to go through with it even if they managed to squeak in.

I hope you're right!

 

[Keef]

...a registered Democrat...

It's easy to change your party registration.

...Ron Paul's idea of eliminating ALL foreign aid is a dangerous idea.

That stems from the fact that we simply can't afford it. Besides, when you play favorites by doling out aid to certain countries but not others, the ones who aren't getting a share get angry. Just as playing favorites with little kids make the other kids throw hissy fits. And as we all know, that's not a best situation to be in.

On a more personal level, most of the Republican contenders are talking about a ban on Gay marriage scares the crap out of me.

Dr. Paul doesn't want to ban gay marriage. He wants anybody to be able to marry whoever they want. In fact, he doesn't want the government to have anything to do with marriage. He has said that marriage should be returned to local chruches and organizations, which is where it started in the first place. If you want to get married, you simply go to your local church and get married. No paper work, no license, no taxes or anything.

 

[paracefan2002]

Keef, WTF!?!? I have been a registered Democrat since the age of 18. I DO NOT appreciate you saying that I changed parties!! And I said MOST of the contenders, not all!!!

 

[Liquid]

Keef, WTF!?!? I have been a registered Democrat since the age of 18. I DO NOT appreciate you saying that I changed parties!! And I said MOST of the contenders, not all!!!

He meant you could change your registration, if you wanted to.

 

[ChaosStar79]

Keef, no I have not b/c I am a Quaker, a registered Democrat, and because Ron Paul's idea of eliminating ALL foreign aid is a dangerous idea. Also, you should checkout flipocrat.com to see a list of what President Obama has gotten accomplished. On a more personal level, most of the Republican contenders are talking about a ban on Gay marriage scares the crap out of me. I feel this way because my sister is a Lesbian who got marred this past September :-) btw click on the store button to view a t-shirt w/ the list I told you about.

What???? How is keeping OUR money here at home, instead of giving it away to other countries, possibly a dangerous thing? Are they going to attack if we stop bribing them? Who specifically is a threat to us because of this?

 

[Dapper]

That stems from the fact that we simply can't afford it.

That is nothing remotely close to a fact. Really, that statement sounds super silly considering how overwhelmingly rich the US is compared to every other country. And then considering we aren't taxing the d-bags who are financially fleecing the other 300,000,000 Americans... it seems your view of the world is completely wrong.

What???? How is keeping OUR money here at home, instead of giving it away to other countries, possibly a dangerous thing? Are they going to attack if we stop bribing them? Who specifically is a threat to us because of this?

Why is it a bad idea to help others? You seem to not understand that the world is essentially one economy and the better they do the better we do. The US is in a position to help, thus we should.

 

[ChaosStar79]

Why is it a bad idea to help others? You seem to not understand that the world is essentially one economy and the better they do the better we do. The US is in a position to help, thus we should.

Helping is one thing. Taking our tax dollars and year after year and sending them to other countries, while we have plenty of problems at home that need money to be thrown at them, is not being responsible or even helpful. By sending our money away, we weaken our economy and infrastructure. By continually propping up other countries, we make them dependent and deter them from taking personal responsibility for their futures. If we were sending them seeds/medicine/clothes that would be fine, but to send billions of dollars to be spent/distributed by local warlords or puppet government is madness and helps no one. There is no safety net to see that these funds are spent in a responsible manner and frequently they are simply stolen by those entrusted with them. All one has to do is to look at the long list of countries receiving foreign aid to understand this. Foreign Aid Census Data These countries do not need our money more than we do. And even if they did, they are by no means more entitled to it than the people who it actually belongs to.

 

[Dapper]

In my opinion, there is no spending problem. We have a revenue problem. When the govt. allows a small group to take all the money then the small group ("job creators" ) should pony up... but they're not.

Jobs go down--> does not affect GDP-->income from lost jobs goes to the "job creators"--> no change in tax rate for the one's making unduly profit--> not as many paying taxes and the ones paying taxes are paying less.} The last 30 years summed up.

 

[ChaosStar79]

In my opinion, there is no spending problem. We have a revenue problem. When the govt. allows a small group to take all the money then the small group ("job creators" ) should pony up... but they're not.

Jobs go down--> does not affect GDP-->income from lost jobs goes to the "job creators"--> no change in tax rate for the one's making unduly profit--> not as many paying taxes and the ones paying taxes are paying less.} The last 30 years summed up.

Is this in response to my comment? I am totally confused by this post and think it might be in the wrong thread possibly?

 

[Dapper]

Is this in response to my comment? I am totally confused by this post and think it might be in the wrong thread possibly?

Taking our tax dollars and year after year...

You describe a spending problem.

In my opinion, there is no spending problem.

I described why there is no spending problem. Feel free to discuss why the immense amount of lost revenue is not a problem, but it is the problem.

 

[ChaosStar79]

You describe a spending problem.

I described why there is no spending problem. Feel free to discuss why the immense amount of lost revenue is not a problem, but it is the problem.

I'm describing theft and the fleecing of our tax base, not a lack of revenue generated by it. To say that we just need to take in more money so we can keep wasting it is over simplistic and frankly just ignoring reality. Paying other countries to be our friends, is surely more of a problem than not collecting enough taxes from our own people to pay our bills and continue to bribe them too. We can only take care of ourselves. This over reaching and over parenting outlook is the same kind of thought process that gives us laws that attempt to control others instead of simply focusing on worrying about our own lives.