Presidential Election: 2012

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He's not, they are largely the same despite what the promises that they both ran on. Both are failing to do what they said and worked/are working towards more empire and violence.
 
I agree with Chaosstar. Obama and Bush really are quite similar, and Romney will just be more of the same. (not including gingrich/santorum as I doubt they can win, it'll be paul or romney).
 
Obama may not be the best president, but he's hell of a lot better then Bush.
Yes, he doesn't stumble over his words...when he has a teleprompter. But the rest has been mostly the same.

None of the candidates are worthy to become presidents. They should have just stayed as senators or whatever their previous job was.
I suddenly feel as if you must be an expert on them whose opinion should be taken seriously.

I never said Obama is so great. I'm just trying to say at least he does what he says he does.
Uh, wut? Even the one thing he can make that claim on, healthcare reform, is more of a handout to the insurance companies he vilifies in his speeches than the aid he claims it to be.

The candidates can say what they want, but they'll find a way to twist the truth and do things opposite without Americans caring.
Just like Obama has. Or is speaking against outsourcing and then appointing the CEO of the country's largest outsourcer to the head of his Jobs and Competitiveness council doing exactly what he says. Obama is just as much a crony as anyone else.


Ron Paul want's to get rid of TSA; why? Because of course people don't like it. So what if people don't like it? I would rather want to be safe while flying on a plane then to know that the person in front of me could have a bomb in his underwear.
I know this one was back a bit, but TSA is one of my pet peeves and why, after my Hawaii vacation a few years back, I will never fly when driving is an option. First of all, if you think the TSA is a good idea, congratulations, you do like a Bush policy.

But the TSA is a direct violation of your 4th amendment rights. Every person, wishing to fly on private airlines, and their effects are being searched without probable cause. Every passenger on every plane in the US treated as if they are a suspected terrorist.

And if you truly feel like being treated like a criminal will keep you safe, then explain why the TSA has yet to catch a single terrorist. They have searched the diapers of enough old people and infants to have accidentally found a poo poo bomber by now. Even the underwear bomber that you bring up was missed and stopped by passengers on the plane, even after the US intelligence had been warned about him by British intelligence and the guy's own father. They knew who he was and he still got on a plane and nearly set off a bomb. Oh yes, the TSA makes me feel so safe.

There is nothing more comforting than opening your suitcase to find all of your personal belongings tossed about and a small note informing you that your bags were inspected by the TSA in a random search, without warrant or probable cause. I feel so safe when I get treated like a criminal. Especially after having the act of getting on a plane be the most difficult thing in the world.
 
I never thought I'd see someone say Paul could win, but he has his merits. I definitely don't agree with his "legalize drugs and hookers derpderp" ideas, but the president doesn't get everything he wants and I doubt he'll get that. And right now, a committed libertarian would probably be the best choice to hold the presidential veto. I know that he won't let internet censorship slip under the net even if it's hidden in a shipment of counter-terrorism or child protection. I know he won't let more socialist policies like Obamacare (who are they to tell me I have to have insurance?) slip in either. I know he won't let us spend way more money than we have. Basically, it's almost more important what he won't let happen than what he will.
 
I definitely don't agree with his "legalize drugs and hookers derpderp" ideas, but the president doesn't get everything he wants and I doubt he'll get that.

This would probably belong in the "Drugs" thread, assuming we go much farther, but I suggest you look into what Paul has to say about this. He makes a great point. The fact that drugs are illegal doesn't prevent people from using them, but only burdens those who constantly try to prevent it.
 
White & Nerdy
I never thought I'd see someone say Paul could win, but he has his merits. I definitely don't agree with his "legalize drugs and hookers derpderp" ideas, but the president doesn't get everything he wants and I doubt he'll get that. And right now, a committed libertarian would probably be the best choice to hold the presidential veto. I know that he won't let internet censorship slip under the net even if it's hidden in a shipment of counter-terrorism or child protection. I know he won't let more socialist policies like Obamacare (who are they to tell me I have to have insurance?) slip in either. I know he won't let us spend way more money than we have.

Hookers and drugs should be legal because it would end so much violence and make money with taxes from it rather than costing billions to stop it. The only serious problem I would see is with the drugs. The most death are from alcohol whether it was from drinking and driving or someone had alcohol in them as they murdered someone else. So to add every drug allowed able to buy and use for anyone just by going to the store I think would be insane. People will be overdosing left and right. Like you say just because they say it doesn't mean it's gonna happen anyway. I don't ever see all drugs being legal, but there are some that I don't think should of ever been banned.

Did you guys see Obama's speech tonight? He got a lot of standing ovations. I find Obama speaks very well to the public. He never guesses anything he always speaks in a way where it sounds like it's a guarantee to be done. Out of everyone running I think his presentation skills run circles around the others. One thing I found interesting is he said there will be no more bail outs ever. I may be wrong, but wasn't he in power already and agreed to the bail outs the first time around? If something like that happened again why would he choose not to bail them out again, he obviously thought it was the only right way back than. I don't think he has a plan for anything. He just gets the problem and decides than what he will do.

I'm still thinking Ron Paul should clearly win. His ideas are all exactly what the country needs. You're in debt you need to stop spending. Seems like common sense to me, but all the other candidates don't agree and just talk about tax plans and continuing to speed on military. The only controversial things Paul says like drugs won't pass anyway since it needs more than just him wanting it to pass. I don't think people should really focus on those small points as much.
 
I definitely don't agree with his "legalize drugs and hookers derpderp" ideas, but the president doesn't get everything he wants and I doubt he'll get that.

So, you say "who is the government to tell us we need insurance?". Well then why does the government get to decide what you put in your body or in someone else's? If they made prostitution and drugs legal tomorrow, would either of us go down to the brothel, buy some heroin on the way and pay a hooker? Of course not. Your views are very hypocritical, and are common of a typical "conservative", not deviating from the Republican party line.

You don't want the government in your life when it comes to health insurance, or guns, or the environment, yet when it comes to allowing other people to do drugs or pay a hooker (because I'm assuming you'll do neither), suddenly it's off limits. The same arguments you would use against drugs (It's bad for society, it kills people, in the hands of crazies it's dangerous) can be applied to an argument that gun ownership should be illegal.



Also, Paul believes the individual states should be allowed to decide. Up in Alaska you can keep drugs and hookers illegal, while the "crazy hippies" in California can have their weed and hookers in peace. Also, by keeping drugs illegal you are indirectly supporting brutally violent gang activity. If heroin were legal to be produced on a large scale like alcohol, it'd be produced safely in a laboratory atmosphere, and the large, efficiently run factories would put gangs and drug cartels out of business, as well as keeping people from dying because their cocaine is laced with something.
 
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This would probably belong in the "Drugs" thread, assuming we go much farther, but I suggest you look into what Paul has to say about this. He makes a great point. The fact that drugs are illegal doesn't prevent people from using them, but only burdens those who constantly try to prevent it.

This is much the same as his abortion argument. The man delivers babies for a living so his personal stance on this should be obvious to anyone, yet at the same time he is aware that outlawing abortion simply would not stop it from happening and would be unenforceable in many cases. (not to mention the Constitutional points...)
 
This is much the same as his abortion argument. The man delivers babies for a living so his personal stance on this should be obvious to anyone, yet at the same time he is aware that outlawing abortion simply would not stop it from happening and would be unenforceable in many cases. (not to mention the Constitutional points...)

Exactly. It's the same for me, if I were to get my girlfriend pregnant, I'd want her to put the baby up for adoption before considering abortion. However, the logistics of it dictate that no matter what the law says, people will get abortions, bottom line. And I feel better about those abortions coming in a sterile, clinical environment by trained medical professionals rather than in a shady back alley with a coat hanger. It's the same thing with drugs, people are going to do cocaine and heroin no matter what. I'd rather it be made safely in a factory or laboratory environment than the current method of production relying on violence and drug cartels.
 
You don't want the government in your life when it comes to health insurance, or guns, or the environment, yet when it comes to allowing other people to do drugs or pay a hooker (because I'm assuming you'll do neither), suddenly it's off limits. The same arguments you would use against drugs (It's bad for society, it kills people, in the hands of crazies it's dangerous) can be applied to an argument that gun ownership should be illegal.

Except it would be quite wrong. There is an upside to gun ownership, it allows innocents to more effectively resist attempts on their lives and property. Drugs... why? So you can fly into orbit every weekend? Drugs are far easier to OD on than alcohol and have a far wider variety of problems... for example, I don't have any idea if I'm allergic to pot smoke or not, but if I am, I'd rather not find out the hard way. As for hookers, gotta catch 'em all! STDs, that is. Yes, there are tests that identify STDs. No, they don't detect quickly enough.

Also, Paul believes the individual states should be allowed to decide. Up in Alaska you can keep drugs and hookers illegal,

Fixed?

while the "crazy hippies" in California can have their weed and hookers in peace.

Well good for them then! I never planned on going near the place anyway... guess I'll have to stay away until I get tested for pot allergies, lest I breathe the results of someone's party and go into shock.

Also, by keeping drugs illegal you are indirectly supporting brutally violent gang activity.

If it were to become legal, the problem would become even more widespread, as people who previously weren't willing to risk their freedom and cash to try it will have no more reason to fear legal issues.

If heroin were legal to be produced on a large scale like alcohol, it'd be produced safely in a laboratory atmosphere, and the large, efficiently run factories would put gangs and drug cartels out of business, as well as keeping people from dying because their cocaine is laced with something.

Depends. If the laws limited the strength of heroin to reduce the possibility of an OD, previous addicts - and probably some new ones too - would still want stronger drugs... that only the gangs and cartels would be able to provide. They might not do as much business as they are now, but they'd still be shooting each other up. So legalizing heroin would non-solve that problem and make another worse.

This is much the same as his abortion argument. The man delivers babies for a living so his personal stance on this should be obvious to anyone, yet at the same time he is aware that outlawing abortion simply would not stop it from happening and would be unenforceable in many cases. (not to mention the Constitutional points...)

Indeed, enforcement would be a definite problem, and an underground market will remain.

If abortion must remain legal, however, I still favor laws requiring the clinic to provide an ultrasound of the baby before providing an abortion. Many, many women have had a change of heart and decided to go through with the pregnancy after seeing one. Still many more had an abortion because they were pressured or they thought they didn't have a choice, many of them regret it today.

Exactly. It's the same for me, if I were to get my girlfriend pregnant, I'd want her to put the baby up for adoption before considering abortion. However, the logistics of it dictate that no matter what the law says, people will get abortions, bottom line. And I feel better about those abortions coming in a sterile, clinical environment by trained medical professionals rather than in a shady back alley with a coat hanger. It's the same thing with drugs, people are going to do cocaine and heroin no matter what. I'd rather it be made safely in a factory or laboratory environment than the current method of production relying on violence and drug cartels.

Objection: I still maintain there are many ways drugs are more dangerous than alcohol, from the fumes of some drugs to the potentially different (and possibly unpredicatble) effects of others.
 
You don't want the government in your life when it comes to health insurance, or guns, or the environment, yet when it comes to allowing other people to do drugs or pay a hooker (because I'm assuming you'll do neither), suddenly it's off limits. The same arguments you would use against drugs (It's bad for society, it kills people, in the hands of crazies it's dangerous) can be applied to an argument that gun ownership should be illegal.

Agreed. The issue with democracy is that the majority often creates laws that mostly or exclusively affect a minority (drug users, gun owners, homosexuals) and it's simply unacceptable. We feel this entitlement to decide what other people can and cannot do when we really should be more focused on understanding that different people like different stuffs.
 
Except it would be quite wrong. There is an upside to gun ownership, it allows innocents to more effectively resist attempts on their lives and property. Drugs... why? So you can fly into orbit every weekend? Drugs are far easier to OD on than alcohol and have a far wider variety of problems... for example, I don't have any idea if I'm allergic to pot smoke or not, but if I am, I'd rather not find out the hard way. As for hookers, gotta catch 'em all! STDs, that is. Yes, there are tests that identify STDs. No, they don't detect quickly enough.

Should we outlaw peanuts then? What if someone has peanut butter and doesn't know if they're allergic to them? I'd rather not find out the hard way. As far as hookers go, I wouldn't want to get an STD, so I wouldn't have sex with a hooker, bottom line. But I don't care if someone else wants to, it's their life, and their decision. Just to clear things up about guns, I do agree with you. I hunt, we have guns in my house, I shoot skeet and trap for sport, and I've grown up around guns all my life, I am completely for gun ownership being legal. However, you can really make the same arguments for guns being illegal as drugs, not saying they're valid arguments for guns, but they also aren't valid arguments for drugs.


Yeah, I meant to say Illegal in Alaska.

Well good for them then! I never planned on going near the place anyway... guess I'll have to stay away until I get tested for pot allergies, lest I breathe the results of someone's party and go into shock.

I can't imagine weed would be legal on public property. Also, that logic could apply to anything. I feel sick (and usually throw up) from even smelling scallops cooking in a pan, does that mean that restaurants shouldn't be allowed to serve them? Of course not. I do with scallops what you should do with weed, should it become illegal, since it will only be legal in private places, don't enter a private place that allows it, there's also next to no chance anyone will ever be allowed to legally smoke weed in a restaurant or anything other than a private home.

If it were to become legal, the problem would become even more widespread, as people who previously weren't willing to risk their freedom and cash to try it will have no more reason to fear legal issues.

Sure, there could be a few more people who use it. But how many people would run out and try heroin if it were legal tomorrow? Honestly? Not many. Marijuana use would rise pretty quickly I'd imagine, but cocaine, heroin, etc etc, I can't imagine there'd be a massive influx of users. Also, the "problem" would probably be not as widespread. Right now, people who are addicted to hard drugs are chucked in jail and treated as criminals rather than sick people. Here's an article on how decriminalization in Portugal has gone.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...ocId=CNG.e740b6d0077ba8c28f6d1dd931c6f679.5e1

Depends. If the laws limited the strength of heroin to reduce the possibility of an OD, previous addicts - and probably some new ones too - would still want stronger drugs... that only the gangs and cartels would be able to provide. They might not do as much business as they are now, but they'd still be shooting each other up. So legalizing heroin would non-solve that problem and make another worse.

That's a possibility, but again, the problem with hard drug addiction right now is that there's no way to get help without exposing yourself and getting tossed in jail for years. I still find it hard to believe that the cartels would stay in business, regardless of how much more potent their heroin could be. Think of how cheap Coca-Cola is. Would you pay %500 more for Coca-Cola with more caffeine in it? I would imagine that buying more potent heroin from a dealer would be insanely expensive, as all of their demand would be gone. Almost anyone who would want heroin would be more than happy to get it from the legal methods of production, because it will be so much cheaper.


Indeed, enforcement would be a definite problem, and an underground market will remain.

A very tiny underground market may remain, but that's certainly not better than allowing the massive, violent, destructive, and bloody drug market we have today.

If abortion must remain legal, however, I still favor laws requiring the clinic to provide an ultrasound of the baby before providing an abortion. Many, many women have had a change of heart and decided to go through with the pregnancy after seeing one. Still many more had an abortion because they were pressured or they thought they didn't have a choice, many of them regret it today.

Again, this is really hypocritical. What happened to "who are the government to tell me I need insurance?" What about someone else who would say "who are the government to tell me I need an ultrasound?" Why is one logically different than the other? You can't be upset with the government intruding in to your life in some aspects, yet want them to intrude on someone else's life because of something you deem immoral.

Objection: I still maintain there are many ways drugs are more dangerous than alcohol, from the fumes of some drugs to the potentially different (and possibly unpredicatble) effects of others.
I'd agree, hard drugs are worse for you than Alcohol. However, in the long run I find it very hard to believe that Marijuana is worse for you than Alcohol or tobacco. Has anyone ever OD'd on Marijuana? Has anyone ever got high, come home and beat their wife? I don't think so. Not that I'm advocating it either, but it's definitely safer to drive high than drunk.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/new...h-vs-getting-hammered-which-is-more-dangerous

EDIT: I also want to reiterate, I don't smoke tobacco or weed, and I hardly ever drink.
 
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Hypocritical cave man rant.

I wonder, do you live in a cave or something? Have you ever been outside of Alaska? The way you see things are just so narrow minded.

Or are you just a child? Let's say 13 or 14 years old?
 
So as of 9:00 AM this morning, Obama failed to comply with a subpeona ordering him to appear in an Atlanta court.

Soooo.......now what? If I did that I would have a warrant out for my arrest.
 
So as of 9:00 AM this morning, Obama failed to comply with a subpeona ordering him to appear in an Atlanta court.

Soooo.......now what? If I did that I would have a warrant out for my arrest.

A crook who looks pretty liberal by today's standards once said; "When the President does it, that means that it is not illegal"

'Merica?
 
So as of 9:00 AM this morning, Obama failed to comply with a subpeona ordering him to appear in an Atlanta court.

Soooo.......now what? If I did that I would have a warrant out for my arrest.

Executive Privilege. The prosecutor must prove to the judge that his presence is necessary to the justice of the case. Considering it was a birther case, and Obama released his long-form birth certificate in April, he has no need to be there. The prosecutor will have to show evidence that the birth certificate is fake, thus making much more serious chargers, before the judge would feel the need to enforce the subpoena.
 
Wait, people are still arguing about whether or not Obama was born in the United States? Yeesh. If they would have had the same drive for vetting their own candidates in 2008, they could have been in the White House...
 
Executive Privilege. The prosecutor must prove to the judge that his presence is necessary to the justice of the case. Considering it was a birther case, and Obama released his long-form birth certificate in April, he has no need to be there. The prosecutor will have to show evidence that the birth certificate is fake, thus making much more serious chargers, before the judge would feel the need to enforce the subpoena.
So what you're telling me is that the Supreme Court made this rule up for Nixon. That's cool I guess.

Upon further review of Article II, I still don't see the logic behind not requiring a President to attend court as would any other officer of the government, the military, or any civilian.
 
So as of 9:00 AM this morning, Obama failed to comply with a subpeona ordering him to appear in an Atlanta court.

Soooo.......now what? If I did that I would have a warrant out for my arrest.
Pretty apt summary of how out of touch you are. Par for the course for a Ron Paul supporter, though.

I'm sure they'll be arresting Bush for war crimes on his next book tour, too....

Oh, and Newt promised a moon base by his second term if he were to be elected, to round up the looney bin haul for the evening.

I would blame the useless Democratic party for squandering their two-chamber majority over their own individual fears for reelection for many of those broken promises. The sausage gets made in Congress.

Whether the midterm election landslide was spurred by the poisoned well of health care reform debate thanks to the GOP misinformation machine orrrr...it was the economy, stupid; that's your judgement call.
 
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Should we outlaw peanuts then? What if someone has peanut butter and doesn't know if they're allergic to them? I'd rather not find out the hard way.

The difference there is, you don't get it quite so bad if peanut butter smells drift over the fence from the neighbor's back yard, at least as far as I know.

As far as hookers go, I wouldn't want to get an STD, so I wouldn't have sex with a hooker, bottom line. But I don't care if someone else wants to, it's their life, and their decision.

So welcome to what may very well be the most dangerous legal occupation in the world. It's like the "porn vs. condoms" argument - sure, you can test for STDs, but then what do you tell the people you've worked with/for over the last few months?

I can't imagine weed would be legal on public property. Also, that logic could apply to anything. I feel sick (and usually throw up) from even smelling scallops cooking in a pan, does that mean that restaurants shouldn't be allowed to serve them? Of course not. I do with scallops what you should do with weed, should it become illegal, since it will only be legal in private places, don't enter a private place that allows it, there's also next to no chance anyone will ever be allowed to legally smoke weed in a restaurant or anything other than a private home.

Fair point, though it still holds true that pot is a mind-altering substance while scallops are not.

Sure, there could be a few more people who use it. But how many people would run out and try heroin if it were legal tomorrow? Honestly? Not many. Marijuana use would rise pretty quickly I'd imagine, but cocaine, heroin, etc etc, I can't imagine there'd be a massive influx of users. Also, the "problem" would probably be not as widespread. Right now, people who are addicted to hard drugs are chucked in jail and treated as criminals rather than sick people. Here's an article on how decriminalization in Portugal has gone.

Probably the same people who try tobacco just because they turned 19, or alcohol just because they turned 21. "Heeeey, I'm old enough to go get drunk now! It'll be awesome!" "Heeeeey, heroin is legal now! I can go get high! Everyone says it's cool!"

That's a possibility, but again, the problem with hard drug addiction right now is that there's no way to get help without exposing yourself and getting tossed in jail for years. I still find it hard to believe that the cartels would stay in business, regardless of how much more potent their heroin could be. Think of how cheap Coca-Cola is. Would you pay %500 more for Coca-Cola with more caffeine in it? I would imagine that buying more potent heroin from a dealer would be insanely expensive, as all of their demand would be gone. Almost anyone who would want heroin would be more than happy to get it from the legal methods of production, because it will be so much cheaper.

Fair point.

Again, this is really hypocritical. What happened to "who are the government to tell me I need insurance?" What about someone else who would say "who are the government to tell me I need an ultrasound?" Why is one logically different than the other? You can't be upset with the government intruding in to your life in some aspects, yet want them to intrude on someone else's life because of something you deem immoral.

Fine then, abortion should be illegal at the federal level because it's killing an innocent human life. Deny that all you want, but nerves are in place six to eight weeks after conception, and the pathways to send pain to the brain are there by 12 weeks.

As to rape and incest: they're extremely rare, most abortions are performed for convenience. In my opinion, however, the crimes of rape and incest should not be "fixed" by murder - "two wrongs don't make a right."

I'd agree, hard drugs are worse for you than Alcohol. However, in the long run I find it very hard to believe that Marijuana is worse for you than Alcohol or tobacco. Has anyone ever OD'd on Marijuana? Has anyone ever got high, come home and beat their wife? I don't think so. Not that I'm advocating it either, but it's definitely safer to drive high than drunk.

Fair point, though marijuana has its own fairly nasty set of problems. It's like the scallops example you mentioned, but unlike scallops there isn't really a legitimate reason to want marijuana.

Hypocritical cave man rant.

That is an ad hominem logical fallicy, please restate your premise.

I wonder, do you live in a cave or something?

Depends. Are caves made of wood and painted white?

Have you ever been outside of Alaska?

Yes.

The way you see things are just so narrow minded.

Nice job providing proof. You never said how I was narrow minded.

Or are you just a child? Let's say 13 or 14 years old?

That is an ad hominem logical fallacy, and no. Also, someone opposing drugs, prostitution, and abortion does not make them young.
 
The difference there is, you don't get it quite so bad if peanut butter smells drift over the fence from the neighbor's back yard, at least as far as I know.

That's where you would call the police. It would probably be illegal to smoke in a backyard with only a fence between you and another person who may not want to inhale that. It would realistically be outlawed on all public property, restaurants, workplaces, offices, etc etc. You'd probably only be allowed to smoke it in your own house or out in the woods (if you had a big woodlot or lived on a farm).


So welcome to what may very well be the most dangerous legal occupation in the world. It's like the "porn vs. condoms" argument - sure, you can test for STDs, but then what do you tell the people you've worked with/for over the last few months?

That's the risk you take when going to a brothel then. You obviously don't think it would be worth the STD risk to go (neither do I). So because of that, neither of us would pay a prostitute, it isn't rocket science. It's the same as McDonalds. If you don't want to have the health risks associated with eating McDonalds every day, don't eat there. If you don't want the health risks associated with a brothel, don't go there. As far as being a hazardous profession, coal mining, alaskan crab fishing (300 fatalities per 100k) and logging would probably give it a run for its money.

Fair point, though it still holds true that pot is a mind-altering substance while scallops are not.

Irrelevant. Caffeine is a mind altering drug, should we get rid of it too?

Probably the same people who try tobacco just because they turned 19, or alcohol just because they turned 21. "Heeeey, I'm old enough to go get drunk now! It'll be awesome!" "Heeeeey, heroin is legal now! I can go get high! Everyone says it's cool!"

I doubt it. The difference is you won't grow up seeing your parents shooting heroin like you grow up and see them drinking or smoking tobacco. I'm sure there might be a few people who go out and try heroin because it's legal. Frankly, I don't care because I won't be one of them. People who want to do heroin already do, the anti drug laws aren't doing much to stop it.



Fine then, abortion should be illegal at the federal level because it's killing an innocent human life. Deny that all you want, but nerves are in place six to eight weeks after conception, and the pathways to send pain to the brain are there by 12 weeks.

As to rape and incest: they're extremely rare, most abortions are performed for convenience. In my opinion, however, the crimes of rape and incest should not be "fixed" by murder - "two wrongs don't make a right."

I disagree, but it would have to be taken to the abortion thread.

Fair point, though marijuana has its own fairly nasty set of problems. It's like the scallops example you mentioned, but unlike scallops there isn't really a legitimate reason to want marijuana.

Is there a legitimate reason to want scallops? Grilled chicken would provide better nutrition in every way. People eat scallops because they like it. Just like people smoke marijuana because they like it (or because they have cancer and are undergoing chemotherapy and literally wasting away to nothing because they have no will to eat unless they smoke (or inhale in vaporized form) marijuana). There's no legitimate reason to drink pop instead of water. No legitimate reason to eat white bread, no legitimate reason to eat chocolate cake, no legitimate reason to watch sports, they're all things we do because we like to do them. Why should it be any different with marijuana (before you say because it's harmful there are a lot of things that are legal which are far more harmful).
 
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So what you're telling me is that the Supreme Court made this rule up for Nixon. That's cool I guess.
And every president since has used it in one form or another.

Upon further review of Article II, I still don't see the logic behind not requiring a President to attend court as would any other officer of the government, the military, or any civilian.
The thought process is similar to the one used in Article 1, Section 6. If his being there is not important to the outcome then it is just preventing him from doing his job.

Pretty apt summary of how out of touch you are. Par for the course for a Ron Paul supporter, though.
I don't get your point, other than to purposefully be insulting of Ron Paul supporters for their political views. If Keef ignored a subpoena he could be held in contempt of court, and possibly face jail time. How is it par for the course for a Ron Paul supporter to ask why the president is exempt from being in contempt? Considering another Ron Paul supporter, myself, did know of Executive Privilege I am led to believe that you have no evidence to back up your "par for the course" comment and were merely intended to be insulting of all Ron Paul supporters for their political views.

Oh, and Newt promised a moon base by his second term if he were to be elected, to round up the looney bin haul for the evening.
A combination of pandering to Florida residents who lost their jobs to NASA cuts and trying to sound like Kennedy.

I would blame the useless Democratic party for squandering their two-chamber majority over their own individual fears for reelection for many of those broken promises. The sausage gets made in Congress.
Aaaaaand, there's the point. Why did Obama make these promises if he understand the constitution his job requires he swears to uphold? I mean, if he understood that the president is not a dictator and that Congress must approve every idea he had then why did he make the promises? Why do any of the candidates make promises that is impossible for them to achieve on their own? Perhaps Hope and Change should have had a legal disclaimer under it.

Or we can take the "crazy" guy who proposes changes and even says that he knows he can't force Congress to do most of what he wants, but his main goal is to get people to think differently and start the beginning of real change.

Whether the midterm election landslide was spurred by the poisoned well of health care reform debate thanks to the GOP misinformation machine orrrr...it was the economy, stupid; that's your judgement call.
Considering healthcare was mostly polling favorably in 2010...

Of course, you do seem to forget that there was a huge tea party movement that today can't decide who they like for president.

The difference there is, you don't get it quite so bad if peanut butter smells drift over the fence from the neighbor's back yard, at least as far as I know.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127773780
Peanut allergy can cause life-threatening reactions in people ingesting even trace amounts. Just breathing peanut dust in the air can cause problems — though usually minor ones — such as itching, sneezing and coughing.

To add to this, I am allergic to cigarette smoke, and I thik your line of logic here is ridiculous. I don't fake coughing fits when I walk past smokers or say anything. I recognize that makes me come off as d-bag.

So welcome to what may very well be the most dangerous legal occupation in the world. It's like the "porn vs. condoms" argument - sure, you can test for STDs, but then what do you tell the people you've worked with/for over the last few months?
Hey, I know, let's ban premarital sex altogether to protect us all from STDs caught as a consequence bad decision making. Please protect me from myself. I'm just too stupid to know how to make smart decisions.

Fair point, though it still holds true that pot is a mind-altering substance while scallops are not.
Do you think smoke will be rolling out of buildings like a cliche 80's movie pimp's car? I've had a contact buzz from being at a Led Zeppelin (Page & Plant, technically) concert once, and that required that more than 50% of the people in the area I was sitting be smoking it. Considering that even where smoking tobacco is legally allowed indoors many businesses have banned it privately means this won't happen in any normal situation.

And I am sure any under the influence laws for alcohol would apply to drugs as well.

Probably the same people who try tobacco just because they turned 19, or alcohol just because they turned 21. "Heeeey, I'm old enough to go get drunk now! It'll be awesome!" "Heeeeey, heroin is legal now! I can go get high! Everyone says it's cool!"
Yes, because people who try things that have a very, very low risk of causing death or addiction with just a try will immediately try items that can be deadly or addicting when misused just once. Most people I know that drink have had alcohol before they were of legal age. I knew people in high school who smoked. Why weren't they trying all the other drugs too, since they clearly didn't allow the law to stop them from trying much more reasonable things. Or why don't most pot smokers eventually wind up dead in an abandoned building with a needle in their arm, instead of surfing or pondering philosophy?


Fair point, though marijuana has its own fairly nasty set of problems. It's like the scallops example you mentioned, but unlike scallops there isn't really a legitimate reason to want marijuana.
Really?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_cannabis#Clinical_applications
 
Fine then, abortion should be illegal at the federal level because it's killing an innocent human life. Deny that all you want, but nerves are in place six to eight weeks after conception, and the pathways to send pain to the brain are there by 12 weeks

As to rape and incest: they're extremely rare, most abortions are performed for convenience. In my opinion, however, the crimes of rape and incest should not be "fixed" by murder - "two wrongs don't make a right."

So you're not for the death penalty? Because if it's wrong for a rape victim to use abortion, then it's wrong for a family of a murder victim to want the death penalty. Yes the concepted fetus isn't at fault but wasn't wanted by the unwilling party, same goes for the murder victim and their family.

Fair point, though marijuana has its own fairly nasty set of problems. It's like the scallops example you mentioned, but unlike scallops there isn't really a legitimate reason to want marijuana.

There are many reasons to want it, but however please do tell us these reasons not to want it.
 
Keef
I think if I tried that excuse it still wouldn't cut the cheese.

Your job doesn't have the same ramifications. You can't use the same excuse members of Congress do either.

But then, you don't have a job where someone could cause policy changes by requiring you to miss a meeting to attend court. In fact, employers are required to allow you excused leave for a court summons as a witness or juror.

All that said, does executive privilege get abused? Most likely. But I don't believe this was one of those cases. This wasn't a Congressional or criminal investigation, and if the birther issue had merit the complaint should be against the FEC at this point. Obama can't even be a key witness to his own birth. Anything he says on where he was born is arguably here say, as no one remembers reading the name of the facility they were born in. This is just a lawyer playing stupid games for a dead conspiracy theory.
 
If I may ask, how did the last primary go?

I'm really not getting the best coverage I can, but I'm highly enjoying this thread.
 
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