Project CARS 2 E3 2017 Hands-On Impressions
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- 716
Controllers ie pads should not get too much "focus" in my opinion, everybody I know of that gets a new car game have a ffb wheel. At least in my world a car enthusiast/race enthusiast that is of post teen age at least. Of course it is only based on my own small slice of the world and it can be well off but I mean a car game like PC2 or its competitors that are aiming for an experience far above arcade titles.
To me it is like making a comparison with irl bike racing or even simple trackday experiences. You need real gear, textile/goretex apparel is not sufficient for racing or even a track day in a fast group, regardless of kind of bike you are bringing to the track day.
And to be honest it is a bit refreshing that the creator himself is saying that his game cant appeal to everyone, lets hope that it is the arcade crowd he is talking about
To me it is like making a comparison with irl bike racing or even simple trackday experiences. You need real gear, textile/goretex apparel is not sufficient for racing or even a track day in a fast group, regardless of kind of bike you are bringing to the track day.
And to be honest it is a bit refreshing that the creator himself is saying that his game cant appeal to everyone, lets hope that it is the arcade crowd he is talking about
- 89
- Rio
- alleksaurus
Controllers ie pads should not get too much "focus" in my opinion, everybody I know of that gets a new car game have a ffb wheel. At least in my world a car enthusiast/race enthusiast that is of post teen age at least. Of course it is only based on my own small slice of the world and it can be well off but I mean a car game like PC2 or its competitors that are aiming for an experience far above arcade titles.
To me it is like making a comparison with irl bike racing or even simple trackday experiences. You need real gear, textile/goretex apparel is not sufficient for racing or even a track day in a fast group, regardless of kind of bike you are bringing to the track day.
And to be honest it is a bit refreshing that the creator himself is saying that his game cant appeal to everyone, lets hope that it is the arcade crowd he is talking about
Sorry, but you've got to be kidding.
- 716
Why should I be kidding? A car game is best enjoyed with a wheel, a flight game is best enjoyed with a Joystick. The more accurate racing games that try to convince you that you are driving a car are best enjoyed with a ffb wheel.
All my casual gamer friends that likes car games has at least a cheapo ffb wheel, old as young.
A pad is fine and dandy but dont waste to much time with it. For something like fifa or nhl or that type of sport game a pad is perfect but for a racing game like PC2 and Co?
So you mean a car enthusiast that is not a pure sim racer is happy with just having all the best stuff like a 4k oled tv, a xbox one x or a ps4 pro but he/she stops short of getting a wheel?
Not in my corner of the world
All my casual gamer friends that likes car games has at least a cheapo ffb wheel, old as young.
A pad is fine and dandy but dont waste to much time with it. For something like fifa or nhl or that type of sport game a pad is perfect but for a racing game like PC2 and Co?
So you mean a car enthusiast that is not a pure sim racer is happy with just having all the best stuff like a 4k oled tv, a xbox one x or a ps4 pro but he/she stops short of getting a wheel?
Not in my corner of the world
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- 89
- Rio
- alleksaurus
Why should I be kidding? A car game is best enjoyed with a wheel, a flight game is best enjoyed with a Joystick. The more accurate racing games that try to convince you that you are driving a car are best enjoyed with a ffb wheel.Well,
All my casual gamer friends that likes car games has at least a cheapo ffb wheel, old as young.
A pad is fine and dandy but dont waste to much time with it. For something like fifa or nhl or that type of sport game a pad is perfect but for a racing game like PC2 and Co?
So you mean a car enthusiast that is not a pure sim racer is happy with just having all the best stuff like a 4k oled tv, a xbox one x or a ps4 pro but he/she stops short of getting a wheel?
Not in my corner of the world
Well, the world is bigger than you think, then.
Why should I be kidding? A car game is best enjoyed with a wheel, a flight game is best enjoyed with a Joystick. The more accurate racing games that try to convince you that you are driving a car are best enjoyed with a ffb wheel.
All my casual gamer friends that likes car games has at least a cheapo ffb wheel, old as young.
A pad is fine and dandy but dont waste to much time with it. For something like fifa or nhl or that type of sport game a pad is perfect but for a racing game like PC2 and Co?
So you mean a car enthusiast that is not a pure sim racer is happy with just having all the best stuff like a 4k oled tv, a xbox one x or a ps4 pro but he/she stops short of getting a wheel?
Not in my corner of the world
Well I agree it's how it's meant to be played. Yet the vast majority I know play with controllers as wheels are expensive.
Racegame make money from all gamers but mostly the pad users. They pay for the development of our games and thus should be somewhat catered to.
But that's just my analisys and opinion on the case.
- 716
Well, the world is bigger than you think, then.
Well of course it is, but seeing as I can only give my impression of the world around me ie that those that like car/racing games and are more of casual gamers have often gear to enjoy their car games and I simply wanted to share how it is in my corner of the world.
And to be honest all those families that have children that play such games with their fathers/friends in split screen (something that seems to be going away) do not care that much how the feeling is with a controller as they are extremely fast to adapt. I only need to think back to how my friends and I was when we were small.
A pad should be working with what ever but the developers of proper racing games should not waste to much precious time on the pad because pad usage is more akin to not using the game as a whole. I see pad users as if they themselves were restricting themselves to something akin to a Demo.
Keep the pad working and vibration and all but using to much resources on pad functionality is kinda, meeh, when most of the pad users probably are small young children that do not care that much until someone is saying to them: -Don't play this game because the controls sux.
- 138
- Bottom of turn 8
You are certainly entitled to your opinion on this matter but that attitude would alienate a massive portion of your consumer base if you were the CEO. And in today's money world that would be akin to business suicide. Yes, racing with a wheel is superior to using a pad, but that is vastly different topic to reaching out and grabbing the most consumers you can find. It would be wise to separate the two.
On Assetto Corsa (really a PC developed game) the console base is actually 2x larger than the PC numbers, and that game has been out for years longer on PC. People always question why Lord Kunos should care about the console crowd. The numbers (which SMS are also chasing) explain why.
Most console gamers change from game to game all the time and do not bother to invest in a wheel as a result. But money spent is still money spent whether you play the game for one month or five years. These awesome game developers are here to try and stay in business and that will always be first and foremost in their mind.
***
Fantastic post by Jordan and feedback from SMS. I would love to read part 2 of this one!
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- 3,176
- Lokeren
- breyzipp
- breyzipp
Pillo-san, let me assure you that I am a massive sim racing enthousiast with an Obutto rEvolution cockpit and fully expanded TX racing wheel (TH8A + T3PA + leader wheel) in my second room. Sadly due to a lasting knee injury I cannot use the pedals much longer than 30 minutes or something for a few sessions per week. 
So yes it's really annoying but until some sim manufacturer releases a wheel with on-wheel throttle and braking controls I will have to play mostly with a controller.
So please don't just assume that all people playing with a controller are not serious sim racing enthusiasts.
So yes it's really annoying but until some sim manufacturer releases a wheel with on-wheel throttle and braking controls I will have to play mostly with a controller.
So please don't just assume that all people playing with a controller are not serious sim racing enthusiasts.
- 716
Pillo-san, let me assure you that I am a massive sim racing enthousiast with an Obutto rEvolution cockpit and fully expanded TX racing wheel (TH8A + T3PA + leader wheel) in my second room. Sadly due to a lasting knee injury I cannot use the pedals much longer than 30 minutes or something for a few sessions per week.
So yes it's really annoying but until some sim manufacturer releases a wheel with on-wheel throttle and braking controls I will have to play mostly with a controller.
So please don't just assume that all people playing with a controller are not serious sim racing enthusiasts.
Just buy the old thrustmaster&guillemot ffb wheel in that case
I had one when I was young. Worked great at the time. Dont think it will work with a console though hehe.But, where did you read that I was calling pad users not serious sim race enthusiasts, don't think I have even touched about that at all but simply stated that even casual gamers that like car games usually have gear for their favourite car games. And that developing studios should not waste too much resources and time for pads if they don't think their game would be appealing enough for such a crowd.
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- 290
- Bolton
The American to Jordan " These are not the force feedback settings you are looking for". Jordan " These are not the force feedback settings I'm looking for". The American " You can go about your business". Jordan " I can go about my business". The American " Move along, move along". 
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
Er, right here:
Keep the pad working and vibration and all but using to much resources on pad functionality is kinda, meeh, when most of the pad users probably are small young children that do not care that much until someone is saying to them: -Don't play this game because the controls sux.
Like it or not, there are plenty of pad users out there, for one reason or another (as @breyzipp has already demonstrated). Alienating those people for no other reason than sim racing elitism is not going to help matters. Making a game more accessible to the masses increases its chances of success — and personally, I'd much rather see all racing games flourish.
You're also presenting this as a false dichotomy: improving pad functionality does not negatively impact wheel functionality.
- 6,515
- Southampton
- RacingAtHome
- 716
Haha, I am still saying that most(most=not all) pad users are children and the like does not mean that I am saying that a pad user cant be a race sim enthusiast. Making an assumption like that from what I wrote there is like making an assumption that Trump likes to make about bad "hombres"... I dont have anything against pad users but dailing it in so that it is a master piece akin to Forza with the controller but a total disaster with a wheel is not good for anyone. If the optimization are made at cost of something else like proper physics or wheel physics then I bet you that most of members here would not be happy, but if they are made when everything else is set I don't have any issue with it at all.
And to be honest, just like he Ian Bell said, not everyone can be happy. Because some of my cousins are deaf they need to be given the same chance to enjoy music? The same apply to a proper racing game, a controller is a compromise, if it is not perfect then it is not perfect, at least pad users can drive the car and be competitive with some practice. To be honest pad users have an advantage over wheel users, you are pretty much invincible with a pad compared to wheel users.
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The_American
Premium
- 362
- United States
Absolutely we do not tinker with any physics just because you are using pad vs wheel. (And I'm not suggesting anyone has accused us of this, just wanted to make that clear).
Mixing your input handling code with your physics is a recipe for disaster. We like things modularized and less risky.
Mixing your input handling code with your physics is a recipe for disaster. We like things modularized and less risky.
- 104
- Germany
Very sorry, but your analogy skills suck. A controller is a compromise, right. Being deaf is remarkably far away from any compromise - if you're deaf, you can't hear anything, no questions asked. With a controller, you are able to steer.
Using a controller is much more comparable to having hearing issues - it's contrived, but the opportunity is still there. And you know what? People with hearing issues can just as well listen to music, because there are hearing devices that allow them to.
What you're basically saying is: Well, if the controller steering is contrived, it's just tough luck for the people who use them. Or, using the analogy: Someone with hearing issues just has bad luck and we shouldn't develop anything to help them.
Not the most convincing point to make, if I may say so.
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
You realize the irony in the assumption you're making there, right?
Again, you're operating under a false dichotomy. Solid controller optimization does not mean terrible wheel optimization, or vice-versa.
I'm not sure what sort of comparison you're trying to make here. Are controller users the deaf people in this instance?
I figured that was the case, but it's always good to hear nonetheless. 👍
- 1,787
- RomKnight
More on topic... I fired my copy today and definitely something went really wrong
I had to lower my gain dial back on a certain car/track combo and it wasn't even a formula car!
To bad Jordan was given a faulty setup to test but hopefully soon it'll have a proper opportunity
Wrt to gamepad... If I try anything on a game pad I'll say a few R rated words about the game because I can't use a thumb stick to drive if my life depended on it. But I only know praise on this front too so, wth happened? Can't imagine.
Waiting for a new review that I know will be opposite to this one
I had to lower my gain dial back on a certain car/track combo and it wasn't even a formula car!
To bad Jordan was given a faulty setup to test but hopefully soon it'll have a proper opportunity
Wrt to gamepad... If I try anything on a game pad I'll say a few R rated words about the game because I can't use a thumb stick to drive if my life depended on it. But I only know praise on this front too so, wth happened? Can't imagine.
Waiting for a new review that I know will be opposite to this one
- 228
- Graz, Austria
the thing is Pillo-San does not understand the comercial side of game developing.
If you want develop a AAA Game you need resources, time and money, very much of that.
For us sim-freaks this is a very cool Simracer, for most gamers it's a cool car game.
The problem is, that the amount of "Simracers" to "Gamers" is maybe about 1:100. If that "Gamers", put down by you as KIDs, don't buy the game, there will be no income for SMS, or the target price must be about 6000$ per copy. So it's an absolute must, to have a good reputation on Gamepad performance. Support the kids and casual gamers and we will see PCars3 in some years.
Its tough to say, but our dreams lives from that sort of "cash cow", so please respect them.
If you want develop a AAA Game you need resources, time and money, very much of that.
For us sim-freaks this is a very cool Simracer, for most gamers it's a cool car game.
The problem is, that the amount of "Simracers" to "Gamers" is maybe about 1:100. If that "Gamers", put down by you as KIDs, don't buy the game, there will be no income for SMS, or the target price must be about 6000$ per copy. So it's an absolute must, to have a good reputation on Gamepad performance. Support the kids and casual gamers and we will see PCars3 in some years.
Its tough to say, but our dreams lives from that sort of "cash cow", so please respect them.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
I really hope Jordan gets to spend some time with a properly sorted/setup wheel and controller and can report back with some good news. IMO, good controller optimization and ease of setup is critical to this game in light of the issues in this area in PCars1. I want this title to succeed because I think it's good for the genre and it'll push the other competing devs into making better games, loaded with both features and content.
- 580
- Gdynia
- Mr--Grandy
@torque99
If game has ps4 pro support (which PCars 2 is going to have) then boost mode doesn't work at all.
On XOX game is running at sub 60 fps at 4K. "Yup, this was a misquote. We're running sub 60 FPS at 4K and we'll probably always be unless we drop livetrack and a host of other things... We'll probably upscale from something very reasonable."
So I would guess PS4 Pro might be running it at 1600p/1800p/checkerboarding.
If game has ps4 pro support (which PCars 2 is going to have) then boost mode doesn't work at all.
On XOX game is running at sub 60 fps at 4K. "Yup, this was a misquote. We're running sub 60 FPS at 4K and we'll probably always be unless we drop livetrack and a host of other things... We'll probably upscale from something very reasonable."
So I would guess PS4 Pro might be running it at 1600p/1800p/checkerboarding.
- 1,240
- Jounieh
- Georgeagea
Am I missing something??!
When the article reached the "Controls and Physics" part, all it discussed was controls!!!
I would like to know about the physics itself! Forget about FFB for a moment! These are 2 different things! It may have a ****** FFB but a great physics engine!
How does the car handle?! Does it slide when it seems it should?! Does it understeer or oversteer where it feels it should?! Does the car balance get really upset when you aggressively jump over a bump?! Does it really feels hard to drive?! Do the tires really lock up and you have to really modulate your brake pedal when driving non-ABS cars?! How much throttle management it requires? Does it feel arcadish or simulationish!?
Lots of stuff you didn't mention!
It's not that I don't care about FFB. Actually, this article made me worried coz I'm a PS4 user and I have the G29!
It's just that I have Assetto Corsa as a benchmark for realism/simulation and I want to know how this PC2 fairs compared to it!
Cheers!
When the article reached the "Controls and Physics" part, all it discussed was controls!!!
I would like to know about the physics itself! Forget about FFB for a moment! These are 2 different things! It may have a ****** FFB but a great physics engine!
How does the car handle?! Does it slide when it seems it should?! Does it understeer or oversteer where it feels it should?! Does the car balance get really upset when you aggressively jump over a bump?! Does it really feels hard to drive?! Do the tires really lock up and you have to really modulate your brake pedal when driving non-ABS cars?! How much throttle management it requires? Does it feel arcadish or simulationish!?
Lots of stuff you didn't mention!
It's not that I don't care about FFB. Actually, this article made me worried coz I'm a PS4 user and I have the G29!
It's just that I have Assetto Corsa as a benchmark for realism/simulation and I want to know how this PC2 fairs compared to it!
Cheers!
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- 716
To all that have responded to my post, to much to quote you all right now so you have to bear with it and get your thirst for my answers quelled.
Yes my analogy sucks but you got the point, having a pad will not give you the full experience as with a wheel, already from the start you are in a disposition immersion wise. A pad user is giving the ability to respond quicker and although the precision like with a wheel is not there you can get precise with practice and you will be fast as everybody else but have the ability to reel in the car/react faster if the car steps out on you.
Like I said, I have nothing against a game being functional with a pad, but it should not divert its resources from how the game was intended of controlling the car, ie a wheel. I am not a hardcore pad user, but I cant find any faults with either AC or PC with the pad, yes the car seems more twitchy compared GT or Forza, but you can change it relatively easily in the PC1 controller settings at least on the PC platform.
And from what I have seen from all those GTS videos even GTS beta seems to exhibit similar traits with a pad as the car seems to turn more than you wanted and you need to correct the course of the car. Looks really bad in the beta, same thing in AC and PC but that is easily mended with lower lowering the gamma of that "axle" making it more progressive or like in Forza making it severely speed sensitive but that will make the steering feel slower. Now after PC1 SMS have a lot of feedback and experience so they can probably offer simply a nice and solid setup for the pad, but if they would be coding in pad specific algorithms instead of focusing on enhancing the wheel experience well you all know what would happen, not many wheel users here would probably touch the game for more than some casual couch gaming as it would fall out of its current category of racing games.
Making money is fine and dandy but if the focus shifts form wheels to pads then it would not even be a hot topic here among us, what good would a game be to most of us here if it does not appeal to us, a racing community aimed more at sim:ish games.
Yes my analogy sucks but you got the point, having a pad will not give you the full experience as with a wheel, already from the start you are in a disposition immersion wise. A pad user is giving the ability to respond quicker and although the precision like with a wheel is not there you can get precise with practice and you will be fast as everybody else but have the ability to reel in the car/react faster if the car steps out on you.
Like I said, I have nothing against a game being functional with a pad, but it should not divert its resources from how the game was intended of controlling the car, ie a wheel. I am not a hardcore pad user, but I cant find any faults with either AC or PC with the pad, yes the car seems more twitchy compared GT or Forza, but you can change it relatively easily in the PC1 controller settings at least on the PC platform.
And from what I have seen from all those GTS videos even GTS beta seems to exhibit similar traits with a pad as the car seems to turn more than you wanted and you need to correct the course of the car. Looks really bad in the beta, same thing in AC and PC but that is easily mended with lower lowering the gamma of that "axle" making it more progressive or like in Forza making it severely speed sensitive but that will make the steering feel slower. Now after PC1 SMS have a lot of feedback and experience so they can probably offer simply a nice and solid setup for the pad, but if they would be coding in pad specific algorithms instead of focusing on enhancing the wheel experience well you all know what would happen, not many wheel users here would probably touch the game for more than some casual couch gaming as it would fall out of its current category of racing games.
Making money is fine and dandy but if the focus shifts form wheels to pads then it would not even be a hot topic here among us, what good would a game be to most of us here if it does not appeal to us, a racing community aimed more at sim:ish games.
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