Project CARS 2 E3 2017 Hands-On Impressions

[Wolfe]

I never expected PCARS to be anything like an arcade game, I know the details the game simulates, I worked out a controller setup good enough for 2-3 hour endurance races, and I adjusted tuning setups for the cars that need it. I still had issues with steering, partly because the implementation is crude compared to other games and partly because the physics are not as realistic as they could be.

Both things exacerbated each other; oversteer doesn't work right and cars were liable to snap-overcorrect too easily, which was made worse by countersteer input that was either too sensitive or would not allow you to catch a slide in time.

Ian/SMS have admitted more than once that both the controller steering implementation and the oversteer physics needed improvement.

 

[GTsimms]

Exactly.
I can simply wait for the game to come out and watch/read the reviews but I wanted an earlier feedback just to see what I can expect. Either pump the excitement and maybe preorder or forget about it and keep my Assetto running!

I have Assettos Corsa and had it in early access. I still prefer the Project CARS 1 feel with a wheel.

 

[Daffyboo]

I have Assettos Corsa and had it in early access. I still prefer the Project CARS 1 feel with a wheel.

I actually had a go at several games with a wheel recently at a mate's pad. Assetto Corsa seemed curiously floaty, Forza was just plain odd although fun, and CARS almost nailed the real driving feel on a gaming wheel perfectly. Quite astonishing really. Next was Dirt Rally which felt simply amazing and was immersive as hell, although he didn't have any other rally games to compare with. I have played all these games on a controller too and I must admit Assetto is my least favorite.

It was the TX wheel I think, with the works: H-pattern and full pedal set. Very sturdy build, I couldn't stop playing.

 

[shoemaker]

If you are buying a sim game like project cars, you really shouldn't be complaining about control pads. They are the problem, not the game. You can't simulate a car with a pad.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

If you are buying a sim game like project cars, you really shouldn't be complaining about control pads. They are the problem, not the game. You can't simulate a car with a pad.

You certainly can. Is it ideal, if your aim is to recreate the impression of driving a real car as much as possible? No.

Would you say pedals are required as well? Because there are a few real-world racers that don't use them. While no production car has featured a joystick, plenty of concepts have from as far back as the '50s. Just like gaming, it isn't ideal, since there's so much less travel compared to a wheel, so it's harder to be accurate.

If a racing game has any hopes of widespread commercial success, it can't really afford to completely ignore pad players.

 

[Daffyboo]

You certainly can. Is it ideal, if your aim is to recreate the impression of driving a real car as much as possible? No.

Would you say pedals are required as well? Because there are a few real-world racers that don't use them. While no production car has featured a joystick, plenty of concepts have from as far back as the '50s. Just like gaming, it isn't ideal, since there's so much less travel compared to a wheel, so it's harder to be accurate.

If a racing game has any hopes of widespread commercial success, it can't really afford to completely ignore pad players.

Yes, and I don't think CARS has ignored pad players. I haven't played the game prior to the updates, but I felt right at home with the pad control after a bit of trial and error. Even coming from Forza, I can get right into CARS with no issues.

 

[RomKnight]

Stop worrying about pC1. pC2 has that sorted (some videos around showing it).

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Stop worrying about pC1. pC2 has that sorted (some videos around showing it).

PC2 may have it "sorted" for PC.
But I would suggest the majority of pad players are on console.

Peoples concern seems fair enough to me.

 

[PzR Slim]

PC2 may have it "sorted" for PC.
But I would suggest the majority of pad players are on console.

Peoples concern seems fair enough to me.

Why would it be that different on console?

 

[Animera]

And that concern has been addressed many times.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Proof will be in the pudding when it comes forth.
Until then I hold my judgement.

I'm not sure why you would expect otherwise or consider that unreasonable.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Proof will be in the pudding when it comes forth.
Until then I hold my judgement.

I'm not sure why you would expect otherwise or consider that unreasonable.

Of course, watching something on a video only takes you so far. Anyone who is really concerned about it should probably wait until after the full game is released and then watch for feedback from ordinary users who aren't invested in the outcome of the game.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Of course, watching something on a video only takes you so far. Anyone who is really concerned about it should probably wait until after the full game is released and then watch for feedback from ordinary users who aren't invested in the outcome of the game.

I'm sure people know me from the GT board and assume I'm here just to have a crack at the game and take the pee.
Which simply is not the case.

I think the game sounds awesome.
But between earlier adventures with this franchise, and another PC focused game that left console players feeling like second class customers, I have legitimate concerns.

So where are we?
About 6 weeks before going gold?
I keep a close eye on this game, and not just here, but all I see or read is PC related.

I want the game, but I'm torn.
Pre-order, or wait until it's mulitpatched and bargain bin?

If nagging is what gets me the evidence I need to pre-order, then so be it.
And without wishing to speak for others, I'm fairly sure there are some that feel the same.

 

[TheoSkullz12]

Honestly that is tru

If you are buying a sim game like project cars, you really shouldn't be complaining about control pads. They are the problem, not the game. You can't simulate a car with a pad.

This is true but im a pad player DS4 because obviously cant afford a wheel and i dont have any problems playing on the controller. Not sure im just use to it but i fair well with people online and im able to do 2/5/8/even 24 hour races just fine not counting the fatigue haha

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Yes, and I don't think CARS has ignored pad players. I haven't played the game prior to the updates, but I felt right at home with the pad control after a bit of trial and error. Even coming from Forza, I can get right into CARS with no issues.

I should clarify: I was in no way suggesting PCARS2 is ignoring pad players. Indeed, there are numerous posts around here from @IanBell where he specifically says he's been focusing on spending time with the pad himself. I meant in a general sense: any developer that pushes out a racing game on consoles and pointedly ignores decent pad support will crash and burn.

As someone with a lot of pad time with GT6 and FM6, PCARS2 did feel easier to get into at E3 than the previous game. The linearity of the stick felt toned down compared to the original, but I think that's important, as it doesn't make everything feel darty/flighty. Filtering needs to be there for the pad — it was the first thing I tried with the 720S, and it felt much better resolved than PCARS1. That said, the filtering felt off with the Ferrari race car: it felt less consistent, resulting in having to take multiple "bites" out of a turn. The other issue was the lack of haptic feedback from the pad. But we acknowledge that there may have been a problem with the setup, and that there's still time before launch.

That all said, the most important thing is this:

Of course, watching something on a video only takes you so far. Anyone who is really concerned about it should probably wait until after the full game is released and then watch for feedback from ordinary users who aren't invested in the outcome of the game.

We can only provide our experiences, and while we try to cover as much of the objective stuff as we can, a good part of sim racing is really down to personal tastes. The best litmus test for if you'll like a game or not? Your own experience. That said, we fully plan on giving our in-depth thoughts on all the (tons of) games coming over the next few months. The hard part is finding all the time!

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'm sure people know me from the GT board and assume I'm here just to have a crack at the game and take the pee.
Which simply is not the case.

I think the game sounds awesome.
But between earlier adventures with this franchise, and another PC focused game that left console players feeling like second class customers, I have legitimate concerns.

So where are we?
About 6 weeks before going gold?
I keep a close eye on this game, and not just here, but all I see or read is PC related.

I want the game, but I'm torn.
Pre-order, or wait until it's mulitpatched and bargain bin?

If nagging is what gets me the evidence I need to pre-order, then so be it.
And without wishing to speak for others, I'm fairly sure there are some that feel the same.

Like I said, I'd just wait until it's released and then read reports from reviewers (GTP) or individuals you trust. If I was a pad user that's what I'd be doing. Pre-ordering what is essentially a sandbox game isn't really necessary.

 

[05XR8]

I posted in the GTS thread, that I'm waiting on reviews from trusted gtplanet members(SlipZstrem, johnnypennso, among others). I don't want more of the same in that game. It seems GTS is not the offline game for me. If the reviews peg it as the best GT, which, brings back that great feeling of GT1-4, I may bite and buy a PS4 & GTS.

PC2 is the game for me, this generation. Hands down.

 

[amazed]

Of course, watching something on a video only takes you so far. Anyone who is really concerned about it should probably wait until after the full game is released and then watch for feedback from ordinary users who aren't invested in the outcome of the game.

None of these users are invested in the outcome of PC2. This is not crowdfunded or kickstarted or paying out dividends to WMD2.

 

[Johnnypenso]

None of these users are invested in the outcome of PC2. This is not crowdfunded or kickstarted or paying out dividends to WMD2.

They are both financially and emotionally invested. It costs to be involved and no one wants to see a product they helped to develop fail. They have an emotional stake in the game succeeding. Videos released at this point will show the game in its best light and any issues that may exist, if any, won't be talked about because of the NDA. Savvy consumers know this . It's not a criticism of this game or the people involved it's just the way it is.

My advice is, if anyone is concerned over features, pad optimization, game breaking bugs etc. to wait until the game is released and see what the general consensus is. It's good advice for any game but especially sandbox titles, because there is little to be gained from pre-ordering or day 1 purchases.

 

[PzR Slim]

They are both financially and emotionally invested. It costs to be involved and no one wants to see a product they helped to develop fail. They have an emotional stake in the game succeeding. Videos released at this point will show the game in its best light and any issues that may exist, if any, won't be talked about because of the NDA. Savvy consumers know this . It's not a criticism of this game or the people involved it's just the way it is.

My advice is, if anyone is concerned over features, pad optimization, game breaking bugs etc. to wait until the game is released and see what the general consensus is. It's good advice for any game but especially sandbox titles, because there is little to be gained from pre-ordering or day 1 purchases.

To be honest even that won't give you the correct representation of the game. There are enough nasty people out there, particularly in the sim racing community, who would rather walk over hot coals than say something positive about PCars. This is one of the more positive places. Some places won't give it the time of day and will say it's a mess even if it's a sublime game.

At the end of the day there is only one opinion that counts and that's your own. If you are interested in the PC version you have always got the 2 hour Steam refund policy to have a taster of the game. Not so easy on console unfortunately.

My advice would be to seek the opinions of a number of members whose opinion you really trust and whose opinions of current games tally with your own. However, until you boot up the game yourself you're not going to truly know the answer.

 

[RomKnight]

PC2 may have it "sorted" for PC.
But I would suggest the majority of pad players are on console.

Peoples concern seems fair enough to me.

I never wrote otherwise wrt to peoples concerns. I do understand them.
That's not quite what I've meant though. I said it in a "forward is the way" sense. Didn't came across like that but it is my fault.; apologies for that.

But if it works on PC where I *finger in the air* guess the controllers are so much more varied why wouldn't it work on consoles where, surely, most console users use original controllers from Sony/MS (read standard wrt to feel)?

 

[Daffyboo]

Somewhat off-topic, but I've already written off Dirt 4 from my purchase list. CARS2 and Forza 7 I'm totally gettin

To be honest even that won't give you the correct representation of the game. There are enough nasty people out there, particularly in the sim racing community, who would rather walk over hot coals than say something positive about PCars. This is one of the more positive places. Some places won't give it the time of day and will say it's a mess even if it's a sublime game.

At the end of the day there is only one opinion that counts and that's your own. If you are interested in the PC version you have always got the 2 hour Steam refund policy to have a taster of the game. Not so easy on console unfortunately.

My advice would be to seek the opinions of a number of members whose opinion you really trust and whose opinions of current games tally with your own. However, until you boot up the game yourself you're not going to truly know the answer.

Oh definitely - I enjoy Forza and PCARS for what they uniquely offer. I tend to enjoy one more over the other and the fella next to me might feel differently. That's all it is.

 

[MightyL]

Am I missing something??!

When the article reached the "Controls and Physics" part, all it discussed was controls!!!

I would like to know about the physics itself! Forget about FFB for a moment! These are 2 different things! It may have a ****** FFB but a great physics engine!

How does the car handle?! Does it slide when it seems it should?! Does it understeer or oversteer where it feels it should?! Does the car balance get really upset when you aggressively jump over a bump?! Does it really feels hard to drive?! Do the tires really lock up and you have to really modulate your brake pedal when driving non-ABS cars?! How much throttle management it requires? Does it feel arcadish or simulationish!?

Lots of stuff you didn't mention!

It's not that I don't care about FFB. Actually, this article made me worried coz I'm a PS4 user and I have the G29!
It's just that I have Assetto Corsa as a benchmark for realism/simulation and I want to know how this PC2 fairs compared to it!

Cheers!

Exactly what i'm thinking

 

[RomKnight]

It's just that I have <insert you sim of choice here> as a benchmark for realism/simulation and I want to know how this PC2 fairs compared to it!

Well... it's a sim. It wont be perfect for a few reasons:
- (math can't yet explain everything), rubber is still a "dark" science (no pun intended ), bugs,..
- Then you are already with a preconception and also "used" to AC. Anything else will feel different for you.

So... How will you compare to RL if your benchmark is another game? How do you know which one is more "real"?

Better disconnect that G29 from the wall and drive without FFB...

But FFB WILL be an issue too eventually. You might prefer one FFB over the other but can you make it the car behaviour with different FFB? which FFB is portraing the car behaviour the best. Mind you some car can be very numb IRL. So, do you prefer a real FFB or an informative one?

To answer how pC2 fairs against RL, pretty damn well.

How it fairs against other sims: that woul depend on everyone expectations which is what sims are about for 99%+ of us mere mortals that won't experience the cars IRL, nor are we talented enough to even TRY pushing them given the chance

 

[Georgeagea]

You are right but let me clarify some stuff here:

Yes, I have never driven a race car around any track and I have zero experience with that!

Yes, it's all a relatively subjective matter but there are some clues, opinions and numbers:
When real racing drivers, or experienced drivers claim that PC1 was rubbish in terms of physics and that AC is closer to real life, I need to take that into consideration!
I have watched and read hundreds of reviews of both PC1 and AC in order to chose between the two for my ps4; since physics and realism was my main interest, I chose AC because 90% of those reviews (again some of those from real life pro drivers) stated that AC is MUCH better than PC1 in terms of physics and realism / simulation.
You just simply can't dismiss this "fact": Numbers and RL pro drivers opinions on this matter do matter

Now, since I don't have any RL experience, according to what should I be comparing it?! How to know if it's a relatively good simulation or not?!
Yes you're right! I should compare it to the best "SIM" out there "currently" on consoles which is AC (again it's not a good "game" but the best "sim" according to 90% of the users).

Now notice that in all that, I didn't mention FFB; yes you're right, it plays a big role in the overall feel but that feel would be "fake" if basic physics/realism is missing!

I hope I got my point clear now!

 

[Daffyboo]

You are right but let me clarify some stuff here:

Yes, I have never driven a race car around any track and I have zero experience with that!

Yes, it's all a relatively subjective matter but there are some clues, opinions and numbers:
When real racing drivers, or experienced drivers claim that PC1 was rubbish in terms of physics and that AC is closer to real life, I need to take that into consideration!
I have watched and read hundreds of reviews of both PC1 and AC in order to chose between the two for my ps4; since physics and realism was my main interest, I chose AC because 90% of those reviews (again some of those from real life pro drivers) stated that AC is MUCH better than PC1 in terms of physics and realism / simulation.
You just simply can't dismiss this "fact": Numbers and RL pro drivers opinions on this matter do matter

Now, since I don't have any RL experience, according to what should I be comparing it?! How to know if it's a relatively good simulation or not?!
Yes you're right! I should compare it to the best "SIM" out there "currently" on consoles which is AC (again it's not a good "game" but the best "sim" according to 90% of the users).

Now notice that in all that, I didn't mention FFB; yes you're right, it plays a big role in the overall feel but that feel would be "fake" if basic physics/realism is missing!

I hope I got my point clear now!

Out of general curiousity, did it state to what extent these pro drivers played each game? A few days and weeks for example, or just a few hours? And, did these race drivers drive in certain leagues or just one particular class of cars/league?

AC may be hyped as having the best physics but I am simply not willing to write PC1 off just yet. I have owned and driven (even pushed) several high HP cars IRL, and apart from the oversteer issue, I believe CARS1's physics are quite spot on. However, that being said, I might feel differently if I drive the exact same car in the game first and then real life, or vice versa.

 

[RomKnight]

@Georgeagea

My bad. I again forgot the "on consoles"... I still stand by my point though I do understand your POV. It's the same as everyone and expected wrt to pC1.

But pC2 is not pC1 hence why my question still stands, especially because people resilience and subconscious thinking about pC1.

 

[Georgeagea]

@Georgeagea

But pC2 is not pC1 hence why my question still stands, especially because people resilience and subconscious thinking about pC1.

I know it's not, and that's why I'm hyped for it and probably buying it!

 

[Mr Tree]

@Jordan @SlipZtrEm

Since we are getting close to release, have you guys been able to try the game for yourselfs again?

If so what was the verdict this time around?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Jordan]

@Jordan @SlipZtrEm

Since we are getting close to release, have you guys been able to try the game for yourselfs again?

If so what was the verdict this time around?

Thanks in advance!

No, we have not. I am still very eager to arrange something with @IanBell and @The_American. 👍