Project CARS 3: General Discussion Thread - Out August 28th, 2020 on XB1/PS4/PC

[killerjimbag]

What i don't get is how the experience of someone driving a fast car once in a while for 25 years gets more valued than the experience of someone who does it almost every day since 27 years...

His Police force has 4 damn vehicles. How many high-speed pursuits do you think they have in a year? Go read the article or should I google that for you. Stop with the nonsense. Sterlington has 2724 people. Yeah must be high speed chases going on daily there.
https://www.police1.com/law-enforce...e-department-sterlington-LA-p35TyDK29fPSIPgN/
https://www.myarklamiss.com/news/lo...ice-department-with-just-two-patrol-vehicles/

 

[GTsimms]

His Police force has 4 damn vehicles. How many high-speed pursuits do you think they have in a year? Go read the article or should I google that for you. Stop with the nonsense.
https://www.myarklamiss.com/news/lo...ice-department-with-just-two-patrol-vehicles/

I don't work there anymore. That's why, I gave permission to post the information which is nearly two years old now.

But for department that size you'll be surprised at how many speeders we chased down. Because, when somebody's doing 90 to 100 mph then guess what you got to do to catch up.

Oh by the way, it's quite a bit faster than a track day at Thruxton.

 

[AlexWilmot]

I don't work there anymore. That's why, I gave permission to post the information which is nearly two years old now.

But for department that size you'll be surprised at how many speeders we chased down. Because, when somebody's doing 90 to 100 mph then guess what you got to do to catch up.

Oh by the way, it's quite a bit faster than a track day at Thruxton.

Doesn't matter if you've been faster, he still has track experience which doesn't appear that you do, if you have then great let's discuss it and the way certain cars and conditions feel and are interpreted in the game but you're not wanting to discuss anything here or on any other platform, you're hell bent on arguing a point that holds very little validity to a racing environment

 

[killerjimbag]

I don't work there anymore. That's why, I gave permission to post the information which is nearly two years old now.

But for department that size you'll be surprised at how many speeders we chased down. Because, when somebody's doing 90 to 100 mph then guess what you got to do to catch up.

Oh by the way, it's quite a bit faster than a track day at Thruxton.

You gave permission? You do know about the internet correct.
Right and my best friend is a highway patrol officer for the OPP. He patrols the busiest highway in North America,the 401 in Southern Ontario. Even he highly doubts your comments. Half the time they stop the pursuit.
https://nationvalleynews.com/2020/0...etting-caught-without-high-speed-pursuit-opp/
https://canadaalive.wordpress.com/2014/01/18/highway-401/amp/

 

[GTsimms]

You gave permission? You do know about the internet correct.
Right and my best friend is a highway patrol officer for the OPP. He patrols the busiest highway in North America,the 401 in Southern Ontario. Even he highly doubts your comments. Half the time they stop the pursuit.
https://nationvalleynews.com/2020/0...etting-caught-without-high-speed-pursuit-opp/
https://2ndchanceautoinsurance.ca/401-busiest-highway-in-north-america/

Well that's Canada, we do things a little bit different down here in the south.

 

[Konan]

Didn't this argument start about road Tyre physics?
So does the kind of track really matter if the compound is the same? Racetrack or road, if the speeds are the same, imo so should the observations be...

And Simms never said he was Highway patrol iirc, so the highway chases brought up are irrelevant.

 

[killerjimbag]

Didn't this argument start about road Tyre physics?
So does the kind of track really matter if the compound is the same? Racetrack or road, if the speeds are the same, imo so should the observations be...

And Simms never said he was Highway patrol iirc, so the highway chases brought up are irrelevant.

Thanks for posting that Konan. Your correct " his highway chases are indeed irrelevant" along with probably half of the other stuff.

 

[Famine]

Didn't this argument start about road Tyre physics?
So does the kind of track really matter if the compound is the same? Racetrack or road, if the speeds are the same, imo so should the observations be...

Roads and race tracks have different surfaces and different surface topography - particularly with regards to crowning. How a tyre behaves on the public roads around Spa will be different to how it behaves driving around Spa in the same car, simply because surface grip is totally different (and generally far more consistent on the track) - and yes, I have done that.

Even using the same compound can give rise to differences - a different sidewall, or different tread width, changes things dramatically. When you then switch out the car for something else, the differences get so much larger.

I've driven a lot of stuff in a lot of places at a lot of miles per hour. I wouldn't presume to know how the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres on a Renault Megane RS behave on a lap of the Nurburgring simply because I've driven a Ferrari 488GTB on Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyres in a straight line on the M3 motorway. And, for balance, neither would I presume to know how the tyres on a Ford Mondeo estate police special would behave, double-crewed and full of kit during a full pursuit, simply because I've driven the exact same car quickly in some places; the skill set required to conduct a police pursuit is not one I've been trained with.

Fast road driving and track driving are simply not directly comparable. If they were, why would SMS bother getting Ben Collins and Nic Hamilton to help develop the games and not Spike and Mustard from Police Interceptors?

Because, when somebody's doing 90 to 100 mph then guess what you got to do to catch up.

Drive faster than them. Whatever that has to do with anything.

Oh by the way, it's quite a bit faster than a track day at Thruxton.

Thruxton is a quick old track. Point of reference: I did 144mph on a track day at Thruxton, and that was on my fifth ever lap*:

Surprisingly little oncoming traffic and pedestrians too. Indeed none of the things you need to pay attention to on the public road. Not to mention the fact that the road itself is totally different - including the surface, and the topography. Public roads are crowned, race tracks (other than those using public roads temporarily) are not.

That said, the quickest I've been on a public road was 186mph, in the same car, on a section of derestricted autobahn between Munich airport and the Belgian border. Driving that fast in a straight line gave me absolutely no information about tyre grip/slip transition. Driving it around Spa later that day, and Thruxton four months later, did - as you might see at the end of that video when it very much transitioned to slip


But all of this is evasion again.

*No-one from the rest of the media got within a second of that lap either, except for me on my second best lap, but then no-one else dropped it at 111mph, so there's that.

 

[Konan]

Thanks for posting that Konan. Your correct " his highway chases are indeed irrelevant" along with probably half of the other stuff.

I never said that...

 

[killerjimbag]

I never said that...

Do you think he's going 90 to 100 mph in the city? Yeah they do things differently in the South.

 

[Scaff]

Didn't this argument start about road Tyre physics?
So does the kind of track really matter if the compound is the same? Racetrack or road, if the speeds are the same, imo so should the observations be...

And Simms never said he was Highway patrol iirc, so the highway chases brought up are irrelevant.

It makes a massive difference, the grade of tarmac, rubber laid down and utterly different surface profile make both quite different.

That said I’ve clocked 150 plus on both types, and legally on the public road, an autobahn just a Famine did (and I would wager a number of European GTP members).

Oh by the way, it's quite a bit faster than a track day at Thruxton.

It’s not.

And you didn’t give permission for a damn thing, it’s from a public Facebook post, you just missed that out when you sent to via PM.

 

[PJTierney]

I think the real question here is one of what each of us wants in a racing game:

1. Do you want it to feel exactly like real life?
2. Do you want the sensation of driving fast?
3. Do you want to feel like you're in a racing car, even if you don't know what that feels like in real life?
4. Does the game you're currently playing achieve [1] [2] or [3], or a combination?

It might be a good exercise to ask people here if Project CARS 3 does that for them.


I'll start:

1. No. So long as it's realistic enough that I can apply some sort of real-world theory to the driving (like racing lines, trail-braking etc.) then I'm happy.
2. Yes, and with a decent amount of grip and/or slip.
3. Yes.
4. Project CARS 3 for me does [2] pretty well, [1] could be better, and for [3] I still feel like I'm playing a "game" whereas I feel like I'm in a real rally car in DiRT Rally 2.0.

 

[FT-1]

I think the real question here is one of what each of us wants in a racing game:

1. Do you want it to feel exactly like real life?
2. Do you want the sensation of driving fast?
3. Do you want to feel like you're in a racing car, even if you don't know what that feels like in real life?
4. Does the game you're currently playing achieve [1] [2] or [3], or a combination?

I'll start:

1. Preferably not. If the end goal of a game is to recreate reality, there is only one set of parameters to achieve and they all end up feeling the same. If I purchase games developed by different studios, I want them to have their own distinct art style and gameplay characteristics.
2. Yes, a sense of speed is extremely important in any racing game. Give me all the camera shake!
3. Yes.
4. Project CARS 3 achieves points 2 & 3 to a satisfactory degree. It doesn't fulfill criteria 1 to the same extent, but it doesn't need to for me to get enjoyment from the game.

 

[r_outsider]

I think the real question here is one of what each of us wants in a racing game:

1. Do you want it to feel exactly like real life?
2. Do you want the sensation of driving fast?
3. Do you want to feel like you're in a racing car, even if you don't know what that feels like in real life?
4. Does the game you're currently playing achieve [1] [2] or [3], or a combination?

I'll play
1- It really can't. No game can, as real life motorsport is a brutal experience, which brings us to...
2- I really, really do.
3- We've got several titles on the market which bring a pretty close approximation, and some which seem to lean away to make the experience a bit more fun. Nothing is wrong with either approach. And for me, it depends, I love games which come as close to sims as possible, and I love games that I just have some fun with. The last game I played to completion was Burnout Paradise (the ultimate box).
4- Currently sticking with 2 as there's a ton left for me to do on it (late re-start), does 1 okay, 2 and 3 very well. There's other games I play which tick those boxes as well, to varying degrees.

 

[IfAndOr]

Good idea @PJTierney 👍

1. Do you want it to feel exactly like real life?
2. Do you want the sensation of driving fast?
3. Do you want to feel like you're in a racing car, even if you don't know what that feels like in real life?
4. Does the game you're currently playing achieve [1] [2] or [3], or a combination?

1/ Hell no. While I want the experience to have a good grounding with the real thing I also want to feel like I'm actually able to have some control of the vehicles when I first jump in them. Which in real life I probably wouldn't.
2/ As long as it's not too overblown then yes. I'm sitting in front of a single 2D monitor and can't feel the wind through my hair so giving me a feeling of motion is essential.
3/ This really depends on which view you use to race with. If I switch to helmet view with the various look to apex, camera leaning and shake options tweaked to my liking, then yes I can feel quite immersed.
4/ Generally, although it has its faults, PC3 can give me the experiences above.*

* That's not to say that PC2 (&1) didn't, because they certainly did. It's just that PC3 does it in a refreshing new way.

 

[Scaff]

I think the real question here is one of what each of us wants in a racing game:

1. Do you want it to feel exactly like real life?
2. Do you want the sensation of driving fast?
3. Do you want to feel like you're in a racing car, even if you don't know what that feels like in real life?
4. Does the game you're currently playing achieve [1] [2] or [3], or a combination?

1. As much as is possible within the limits of current technology, yes.
2. Again yes, particularly in regard to FFB when it comes to the interaction between slip angle, self-aligning torque, and steering load.
3. Again yes.
4. It does all three ok, but not as well as the second title did overall (but it is more consistent than 1 or 2), but that doesn't stop me from enjoying it.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

I love that there's a note on the window that says "Post test". I'm sure know one would have a clue otherwise.


Anyway chaps let it lie. All this chest thumping is awkward. It's not compulsory to reply to every post you know. (The ignore user button is also a great option in some cases.)

Some like the game and think it replicates real life vehicles well, great. There are others who also like the game but say it's not so true to life, and that's also great. Others don't like the game or the handling (much like with PC2) and that's fine. That's opinions for you, and most seem to understand that it's just differing views of A GAME (or games). Although it often seems like it, there's no points to be scored so what's the point in getting so worked up about it and continually going over the same ground. There's too much bitterness about!

The only qualms I'd have is with those who haven't even got the game, yet seem to have strong opinions on it, particularly the handling. And this is I presume from... well I not sure. They'd have to try and explain, reviews, hearsay, a general prejudice? People seem to dislike the game, not because of the actual game, but because it wasn't marketed in the manner they'd like. I always find this odd. It's that "All the..." again.

As I've said before I like the game. A lot. Whether it's got entirely accurate true to life handling? Probably not. What I would say is it's got the best balance between realistic yet fun handling of any of the titles I've owned. Of course that's just an opinion just based on personal enjoyment, nothing else.


And @Mr Grumpy, from our PCCP races and from watching your videos then guessing at what you seem to like, I actually think you'd like PC3. Maybe take a chance when it's on sale next, you might be surprised. I was.

I probably would, I like most driving games/sims. Problem is I only have time for 1 (sort of) I have PC2, I love the raw grittyness of it, but then I might play another racing game that's not the same like wreckfest, hence why I deleted AC because I have a game already that does what I need better (on console)

If AMS2 gets released on console, then I might abandon PC2, unfortunately PC3 isn't what I'm looking for to replace it. PC4 might be though.

It was the same for me regarding the original GT1-6 then Sport, it wasn't what I was looking for at the time.

I'm not just saying this to rub anything in, but I really enjoy racing online with full damage & mandatory pit stops (especially manually controlled) I've won races, I've lost races, I've been disqualified for entering to fast, I've been blocked from leaving the pit box & blocked others as I drive past & it all feeds the immersion especially as your tyres are slightly worn & cooler from the stop it's like getting a 2nd chance at a few more places, if not the win. Before I know it it's 3am in the morning.

Most races are so intense because of this that my hands are literally sweating & my heart is pounding whether I'm using the wheel or controller. That is why I like it.

 

[GTsimms]

Pad users may have a different experience.

Using a good ffb wheel. The game's vehicle handling has the best ffb in the series. TBH, the best ffb that I have felt in any game across a lot of vehicles. Each one has their own individual characteristics and to me, SMS has done a outstanding job with the SETA tire modeling to have the vehicles drivable like they are in the rain.

SMS isn't getting the credit for pushing things to make the other sims catch-up to a proper tire modeling behavior.

They take this PC3 handling model and place it back into something similar to PC2. Things will be interesting!

It's amazing, how this discussion has went after the post above.

 

[IfAndOr]

I really enjoy racing online with full damage & mandatory pit stops

As indeed do others, then of course PC3 wouldn't fulfill these needs for you. It's a game for those who enjoy the racing more than the tactics. And also for those occasions when your time maybe more limited but you still want to get a few shorter races in without worrying about the details.
(By the way the puddle/rain effects and the AI's abilities in them are improved. As are the AI generally I find. Although they often need a little tweaking for different tracks or car classes - but coming from PC2 we are used to that. )

It was the same for me regarding the original GT1-6 then Sport, it wasn't what I was looking for at the time.

It was sort of the same for me. I only began with GT5 then 6, but Sport wasn't the PS4 follow on that kept me hooked to the franchise. I migrated to Pcars. If anything PC3 is what GT7 could have been like on the PS4. It certainly has a few GT like features (plus some Sport online ones).

(PC2) I love the raw grittiness of it,

In PC3 the grittiness has had the sander applied to it but they haven't quite removed all the roughness.

 

[GTsimms]

Do you think he's going 90 to 100 mph in the city?

That comment makes me realize, that you haven't really done your homework!

 

[killerjimbag]

That comment makes me realize, that you haven't really done your homework!

Uhm speaking of homework. You worked for a county of 1100 people with 3 vehicles in your fleet and a total of 5 police officers.After your unfortunate accident you were left with 2 vehicles.Should I google that for you also? 2.3 square miles?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterlington,_Louisiana

I stand corrected,if you did 90 Mph it would take 10 minutes to leave your county not the City. Then you would be out of your jurisdiction. Are we done now?

 

[GTsimms]

Obviously, you missed #4532. I don't work there anymore. I have worked at 6 departments.

BTW, that other discussion which you claim to also to be false. After this, I am done with your continued ignorance about the matter.

 

[killerjimbag]

Obviously, you missed #4532. I don't work there anymore. I have worked at 6 departments.

BTW, that other discussion which you claim to also to be false. After this, I am done with your continued ignorance about the matter.

What your ABS sensor is out and the handbrake parking brake indicator is on. Reset the code and it's fixed. How 🤬 hard of a fix is that? Would you want me to fix that for you? Here tell your police force to watch this.Are you trying to tell me the police force let's you drive a defective vehicle again or your mechanics can't fix it or can't afford a code scan reader ?

https://www.google.com/search?q=par...ate=ive&vld=cid:748f2d35,vid:6dMxij8cyRY,st:0

Incredible.

 

[MarcoM]

As indeed do others, then of course PC3 wouldn't fulfill these needs for you. It's a game for those who enjoy the racing more than the tactics. And also for those occasions when your time maybe more limited but you still want to get a few shorter races in without worrying about the details.
(By the way the puddle/rain effects and the AI's abilities in them are improved. As are the AI generally I find. Although they often need a little tweaking for different tracks or car classes - but coming from PC2 we are used to that. )

It was sort of the same for me. I only began with GT5 then 6, but Sport wasn't the PS4 follow on that kept me hooked to the franchise. I migrated to Pcars. If anything PC3 is what GT7 could have been like on the PS4. It certainly has a few GT like features (plus some Sport online ones).

In PC3 the grittiness has had the sander applied to it but they haven't quite removed all the roughness.

While the AI has improved in the way that they don't shunt from behind at the grid like they did in pc2, in pc3 they tend to swivel constantly and when you come close to them they act like a magnet that has glue on them.

Racing against AI? I usually like the battles in ACC, but the ones I had in F12020 were by far the best.

 

[IfAndOr]

Oh I agree that there's definitely still room for improvement in the AI @MarcoM. I just like that they are generally more competitive on most of the tracks now. Also that they appear to make more mistakes than previously. I often pass some who have had an incident, it makes them feel less robotic.

Is there anyone who runs PC3 on the new consoles that notices any smoother AI actions, less twitchy perhaps? Just wondering if the extra power might help with that.

 

[Scaff]

What your ABS sensor is out and the handbrake parking brake indicator is on. Reset the code and it's fixed. How 🤬 hard of a fix is that? Would you want me to fix that for you? Here tell your police force to watch this.Are you trying to tell me the police force let's you drive a defective vehicle again or your mechanics can't fix it or can't afford a code scan reader ?

https://www.google.com/search?q=par...ate=ive&vld=cid:748f2d35,vid:6dMxij8cyRY,st:0

Incredible.

You can also recreate it using the first stage ignition warning lights check.

As I did with my perfectly functional car in the image above.

 

[Konan]

This is getting very close to accusing a member of lying...

He provided evidence but it's still not enough.
Do you need him to post a video of him crashing while that light's on?

Seems to me some members need to give more extensive evidence, while others are taken on their word...

 

[PJTierney]

Is there anyone who runs PC3 on the new consoles that notices any smoother AI actions, less twitchy perhaps? Just wondering if the extra power might help with that.

I haven’t noticed any difference in AI performance, though to be fair I merely consider AI in most racing games to be mobile chicanes I navigate on the way to collecting Achievements.

 

[Famine]

Seems to me some members need to give more extensive evidence, while others are taken on their word...

As I said:

However it's hard to know exactly what experience he's drawing on as he seems keen to only evade the question of what this experience is. It doesn't seem unreasonable that if someone is citing their real-world experience of stuff, people should know what the experience is in order to place it in context. I could claim I have 20 years of experience in driving race cars, but you wouldn't know what race cars because you'll have never heard of the series, and it was in a different country and anyway she goes to another school. Users would, could, and should rightly question that claim, especially if I was using it to bolster a point of view about racing cars.

That particular line of enquiry could have been over two weeks ago with a PM to any member of staff at all; no need for a big public statement on it, no need to reveal names or identities to all and sundry

Only it's now three weeks.

As a moderator elsewhere, you really do have to ask yourself what would happen if someone came to your site and jerked everyone around for three weeks. And a serving police officer would really have to ask himself what would happen if someone he was speaking to jerked him around instead of giving straight answers. Given the obvious answers, the both of you need to ask yourselves why you're doing it here.

I'm getting pretty bored of the evasion myself now, so we're at the point of put up or shut up. I'll take a PM with relevant evidence. Or (as I suspect) I won't. Either way we're done with this topic.

Edit: No, that's "we're done", not "but let me get one last post in about the topic".

 

[Konan]

I haven’t noticed any difference in AI performance, though to be fair I merely consider AI in most racing games to be mobile chicanes I navigate on the way to collecting Achievements.

I agree, i doubt the performance upgrade would change the way the AI act, unless of course if that twitching is indeed performance related.
I did hear the game is a massive improvement on the new Gens...