Project CARS - Logitech Wheels NOT Supported on PS4

[skazz]

It's common knowledge that untill recently only Thrustmaster had compatible wheels for the PS4, my question is since the license has expired are the new terms now that Logitech and Fanatec have to pay a fee to Sony to have working drivers or not?

Just because Thrustmaster had the only licensed wheels on PS4 doesn't mean they had an exclusive license....

 

[LVracerGT]

I don't know how much you guys earn for a living (you don't have to answer that), but personally my income is quite low, so I can't afford to keep blowing £300 on a new wheel every few years. So to those that keep saying "stop crying", "it's a new gen", "security chip", "buy a new wheel", "Thrustmaster wheels are better"..... screw you, as I can't afford a new wheel right now and even if I could I certainly wouldn't buy a Thrustmaster because they aren't reliable enough yet. Why would I want to spend my hard earned on something that breaks so easily, sure it has got a guarantee, but that will expire long before the new gen (PS5) arrives.

This 👍

 

[Johnnypenso]

Trust me almost anyone here earns more than me and I for one am as frustrated as anybody that I had to buy a new wheel, but Logitech decided to return to making wheels, they won't price themselves out for no reason (which looks to be the case now) and they can't afford to R&D a new wheel and they certainly won't just support the old wheels because then they won't make money, see my point?

No I don't see your point actually. Logitech's revenue is north of $2billion, pretty sure they can afford to R&D a new wheel if they wanted to. And why wouldn't you make money supporting the new wheels? Wheels wear out and need to be replaced and the G27 would be the budget king on PS4. New players need a wheel and would more than likely turn to a G27/3pedal/shifter setup at first, especially given the price differential to the TM300. Given that it wouldn't be fully compatible, they could still market the G29 as their fully compatible wheel.

It's common knowledge that untill recently only Thrustmaster had compatible wheels for the PS4, my question is since the license has expired are the new terms now that Logitech and Fanatec have to pay a fee to Sony to have working drivers or not?

It's common knowledge but not evidence of an exclusivity arrangement so continually referring to a license expiring is pure guesswork.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Logitech's revenue is north of $2billion

They clearly had trouble with the wheel market hence why they pulled out.

And why wouldn't you make money supporting the new wheels? Wheels wear out and need to be replaced and the G27 would be the budget king on PS4. New players need a wheel and would more than likely turn to a G27/3pedal/shifter setup at first, especially given the price differential to the TM300. Given that it wouldn't be fully compatible, they could still market the G29 as their fully compatible wheel.

The G27/25 wheels have been around for a lot of time that the majority of the market has or had them, making them compatible to the current gen consoles won't benefit them by much since we have them bought already.

I'll try to get official sources regards the TM exclusivity.

 

[zr1chris]

I think a lot of you are harsh on Logitech, we still don't know if they pay license fees or not.

also if they released the G29 there is no way they'll support the old wheels, it's a business not charity.

Well Thrustmaster came out with the T300 but still supported the T500. It does happen.

 

[skazz]

Well Thrustmaster came out with the T300 but still supported the T500. It does happen.

Support present tense: they have confirmed support for T500 in Assetto Corsa on PS4 in the last couple of weeks, and T500 is supported in WRC5 and Sebastian Loeb Evo, both of which are due out much later in the year...
http://ts.thrustmaster.com/eng/index.php?pg=view_files&gid=3&fid=15&pid=317&cid=12

Whatever else you could say about Thrustmaster having some quality control issues with the T300, they are clearly doing their best with game support both for the T300 and for the T500.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

The G27/25 wheels have been around for a lot of time that the majority of the market has or had them, making them compatible to the current gen consoles won't benefit them by much since we have them bought already.

Nah, companies should be cute, fluffly and good to you to the point you would want to hug them.

 

[Ian_83]

Whatever else you could say about Thrustmaster having some quality control issues with the T300, they are clearly doing their best with game support both for the T300 and for the T500.

This I have to agree with. 👍

 

[sems4arsenal]

Well Thrustmaster came out with the T300 but still supported the T500. It does happen.

Both new ish wheels with different price points.

 

[skazz]

Both new ish wheels with different price points.

Please stop with the incorrect comments..

T500 was released in late 2010 or early 2011 (depending on region). G27 was released in mid 2010. They are effectively the same vintage.

 

[Tired Tyres]

They clearly had trouble with the wheel market hence why they pulled out.



The G27/25 wheels have been around for a lot of time that the majority of the market has or had them, making them compatible to the current gen consoles won't benefit them by much since we have them bought already.

I'll try to get official sources regards the TM exclusivity.

No they did not. Stop making things up. They changed direction and left the console market. Not the wheel market at all.

Thrustmaster did not have any sort of exclusive deal with Sony. They wrote of an exclusive position in a profits forecast. That just means no one else in the market at that time. It does not mean exclusive deal. If they had one they would have used it in advertising their wheels.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Please stop with the incorrect comments..

T500 was released in late 2010 or early 2011 (depending on region). G27 was released in mid 2010. They are effectively the same vintage.

T500 is new compared to the G25 (should have elaborated), still the T500 and T300 have distinct difference, the pedals being a major one.

No they did not. Stop making things up. They changed direction and left the console market. Not the wheel market at all.

Thrustmaster did not have any sort of exclusive deal with Sony. They wrote of an exclusive position in a profits forecast. That just means no one else in the market at that time. It does not mean exclusive deal. If they had one they would have used it in advertising their wheels.

What's the difference, it still means they were not in the wheel market (granted they were selling the G27 on their website but in their statement they stated they pulled out).

Are we debating that Thrustmaster didn't have a timed exclusive license with Sony? (honest question)

 

[Tired Tyres]

T500 is new compared to the G25 (should have elaborated), still the T500 and T300 have distinct difference, the pedals being a major one.



What's the difference, it still means they were not in the wheel market (granted they were selling the G27 on their website but in their statement they stated they pulled out).

Are we debating that Thrustmaster didn't have a timed exclusive license with Sony? (honest question)

They pulled out of the Console market They DID NOT pull out of the WHEEL market. They have sold the DFGT and the G27 from that day to this non stop. End Of.

As for Thrustmaster. If they had an exclusive deal with Sony they would have made a big deal out of it in their advertising. They haven't.

You said this.

I'll try to get official sources regards the TM exclusivity.

So I replied.

 

[VBR]

Stop making things up. Thrustmaster did not have any sort of exclusive deal with Sony...If they had one they would have used it in advertising their wheels.

Now who's making things up! The truth is no one knows if they had one or not, & if they did it may have been time limited, as well as being subject to NDA's from Sony.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Presumably you pay a premium to Sony to get this exclusive arrangement and then use it in your marketing so you can sell more wheels. A secret exclusive arrangement simply makes no sense. I'm also of the opinion that if there was an exclusivity arrangment it would have been all over every TM advertisement for as long as the agreement existed.

 

[VBR]

A secret exclusive arrangement simply makes no sense.

It would make plenty of sense imo, after all this was the first time Sony had closed it's console to licensed wheels only. They knew that would seriously hack off many of their PS3 customers with older wheels, so enforcing an NDA on Thrustmaster would divert attention away from Sony & onto companies like Logitech & Fanatec, who were by then being accused by us customers of not supporting their wheels on PS4. Sony then release a statement saying that any wheel manufacturer can give drivers to any game dev, even though I suspect the reality of doing that was harder than Sony made out, & all of a sudden they're taking less flak than they would've otherwise. They then simultaneously make loads of money from the cheap plastic "exclusively licensed" T80 garbage wheels for their console exclusive racing game DRIVECLUB. Sony & Thrustmaster are now making loads of money together while Logitech & Fanatec are being painted as the bad guys. Fanatec later go on to release drivers to SMS, & Logitech then use the situation to milk their customers with their new G29 & G920 wheels - you know the rest.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It would make plenty of sense imo, after all this was the first time Sony had closed it's console to licensed wheels only. They knew that would seriously hack off many of their PS3 customers with older wheels, so enforcing an NDA on Thrustmaster would divert attention away from Sony & onto companies like Logitech & Fanatec, who were by then being accused by us customers of not supporting their wheels on PS4. Sony then release a statement saying that any wheel manufacturer can give drivers to any game dev, even though I suspect the reality of doing that was harder than Sony made out, & all of a sudden they're taking less flak than they would've otherwise. They then simultaneously make loads of money from the cheap plastic "exclusively licensed" T80 garbage wheels for their console exclusive racing game DRIVECLUB. Sony & Thrustmaster are now making loads of money together while Logitech & Fanatec are being painted as the bad guys. Fanatec later go on to release drivers to SMS, & Logitech then use the situation to milk their customers with their new G29 & G920 wheels - you know the rest.

If you think you're going to p-off your customers by giving an exclusivity then why give one? It seems like an awfully elaborate ruse for very little gain on Sony's part. The issue at hand is whether TM had an exclusivity arrangement and I've seen no direct evidence of that. Unless some is forthcoming, I'm inclined to believe they were just the first one to jump through Sony's hoops to get onto the PS4 platform.

 

[VBR]

If you think you're going to p-off your customers by giving an exclusivity then why give one?

Obviously to make more money out of them, while deflecting the animosity caused by it elsewhere.

However, there's no evidence either way as to whether there was such a deal or not.

 

[Tired Tyres]

You mean apart from Sony themselves stating that the way wheels work on the PS4 was between Wheel Manufacturer and Game Maker? You seem to be trying very hard to think up any convoluted way you can to escape the obvious.

If Thrustmaster has an exclusivity deal they would have exploited it in advertising to get sales. There is literally no other reason to have an exclusivity deal.

 

[sems4arsenal]

They pull
ed out of the Console market They DID NOT pull out of the WHEEL market. They have sold the DFGT and the G27 from that day to this non stop. End Of.

As for Thrustmaster. If they had an exclusive deal with Sony they would have made a big deal out of it in their advertising. They haven't.

You said this.

I'll try to get official sources regards the TM exclusivity.

So I replied.

Here you go http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-11-05-whats-the-deal-with-ps4-and-xbox-one-steering-wheels

Also no way will TM bloat around having a Timed exclusive since then customers will wait for it to be over, nor can they advertise full exclusivity because it's false.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Since when is that an official source?

Unless you mean this bit.

In January 2013 Logitech CEO Bracken P. Darrell said this:

• We are taking immediate actions to shape a faster and more profitable Logitech. We are developing more mobility-related products, leveraging the powerful growth of tablets and smartphones. We intend to sustain our leadership in PC platform-related products where we have engineering, distribution and scale advantages. Our goal with PC-platform products is to maximize profitability, while investing selectively in growing categories.
• We have also identified a number of product categories that no longer fit with our current strategic direction. As a result, we have initiated the process to divest our remote controls and digital video security categories, and we plan to discontinue other non-strategic products, such as speaker docks and console gaming peripherals, by the end of Calendar Year 2013.

 

[sems4arsenal]

This

So what appears to be the case is that Sony is selling its PS4 security chips to Thrustmaster AND granted it permission to develop a driver that will let its last-generation wheels work with PS4. The other manufacturers, so far, seem left out in the cold.

Why? Both Sony and Thrustmaster wouldn't tell us. Fanatec CEO Thomas Jackermeier had a few thoughts on Thrustmaster's apparent PS4 steering wheel monopoly, however.

"People say they have an exclusive deal with Thrustmaster," Jackermeier said. "It could be a policy issue that Sony has some restrictions, that only one wheel is allowed. They had that in the past, when they only allowed one licensed controller per category. I don't know. Seriously. I don't know the real reason and they don't tell me the real reason."

Fanatec is talking with Sony to try to convince it to let it manufacture wheels for the PS4 and create a driver so that its PS3 wheels will be compatible, but ultimately it wants to create a multiplatform wheel that works across PC, PS4 and Xbox One.

"The ball is in Sony's court," Jackermeier said. "We would be more than happy to make an officially-licensed wheel and make everything compatible. That's our target."

Exclusivity deals are nothing new for the video game industry. We see it all the time when it comes to games. And that extends to peripherals. So is it simply the case that Thrustmaster threw money at Sony to secure exclusivity?

"It's a possibility," Jackermeier said. "But looking at the balance sheet of Thrustmaster, I'm not sure they're in a position to do that. Would Sony do that for money? I think it's a more complex issue. It could be even that Kazunori Yamauchi is involved and he says only Gran Turismo-licensed wheels should be supported. Or whatever. It's some policy thing internally. I can only speculate. There's no reason given either to me or the public.

"Some gamers think it's up to us, the wheel makers, to just make it compatible, but unfortunately it's not that easy. I would love to make our wheels compatible and sell more. But it's just not possible."

Also regarding them dropping out of the console/wheel market https://www.gtplanet.net/logitech-may-discontinue-steering-wheel-peripherals/

 

[Tired Tyres]

That is a journalist making conclusions. Not official in any way whatsoever.

Again. If Thrustmaster has an exclusivity deal they would have used it in advertising because it would have make it clear that Thrustmaster was the only player in town if you want a wheel on PS4. That would have driven sales. They didn't do that.

 

[sems4arsenal]

That is a journalist making conclusions. Not official in any way whatsoever.

Again. If Thrustmaster has an exclusivity deal they would have used it in advertising because it would have make it clear that Thrustmaster was the only player in town if you want a wheel on PS4. That would have driven sales. They didn't do that.

A journalist who couldn't find an answer to why SOny wasn't letting other wheel makers be compatible even after speaking to the CEO of a wheel maker, I explained above why TM wouldn't have advertise that.

lets assume for a second TM didn't have an exclusive license, why did the CEO of Fanatec not have an answer?

 

[Tired Tyres]

Why would he have an answer to that? He's the CEO of Fanetic not Thrustmaster - and good luck getting anything out of him about Fanetic because he isn't going to be giving anything away about what they where up to as we subsequently found out. He wouldn't want to give his rivals any clues before he was good and ready.

Again. Exclusivity is in order to generate sales. How do you do that by keeping it secret?

 

[sems4arsenal]

Why would he have an answer to that? He's the CEO of Fanetic not Thrustmaster - and good luck getting anything out of him about Fanetic because he isn't going to be giving anything away about what they where up to as we subsequently found out. He wouldn't want to give his rivals any clues before he was good and ready.

Again. Exclusivity is in order to generate sales. How do you do that by keeping it secret?

it leaves a bad taste in customers mouth, and is not a consumer friendly way so will generate backlash to Sony.

 

[Tired Tyres]

it leaves a bad taste in customers mouth, and is not a consumer friendly way so will generate backlash to Sony.

Completely irrelevant to the functional purpose of an deal. Which is to generate SALES.

 

[Ian_83]

Completely irrelevant to the functional purpose of an deal. Which is to generate SALES.

It generated sales for TM and they didn't have to say a thing. There was simply no alternative and TM certainly didn't have to tell everyone that they had a deal with Sony.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

These are available although maybe they work like a controller but are officially licensed: Link and Link

 

[VBR]

...there's no evidence either way as to whether there was such a deal or not.

^ This.

What's the point in believing that there was a deal & then arguing with people who believe that there wasn't a deal...