PS3 General Discussion

[Tornado]

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It really depends on what individual specs you were looking at, really. I personally think the DC was more powerful than the PS2, as Shenmue and Shenmue II proved, but the specs say they are closer overall, with the PS2 winning in some categories, the DC winning in others and them tying in many.

 

[Mr Deap]

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It really depends on what individual specs you were looking at, really. I personally think the DC was more powerful than the PS2, as Shenmue and Shenmue II proved, but the specs say they are closer overall, with the PS2 winning in some categories, the DC winning in others and them tying in many.

Yeah, but games like Final Fantasy X would look much better with the Dreamcast hardware. There was a huge lack of texture memory on FF games.

 

[Tornado]

And therin lies the problem with the PS2, and the DC's biggest ace in the hole: It modeled textures a whole hell of a lot better than the PS2. The PS2 can push more poly's, but the DC can still make better looking games than the PS2 because the texture rendering engine is so much more powerful than the PS2's that it was silly.
I beleive it was because of it's basis as the Noami 2 arcade board more than anything else. It makes me yearn for a home version of the Lindberg, as it is said to be on par with the PS3 overall, and probably cheaper as it doesn't include the PS3's multimedia stuff by default.

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

It boils down purely to developer talent. THe PS2 was limited in texture memory, but it was designed around bandwidth vs raw power. We can post screen shots all day long, but fact is, some games just looked better than others on any given system.

I can post PS2 games that look better than Xbox Games.

I can post DC games that look better than PS2 games.

It can go on and on, it's merely developer talent and art direction.

 

[Sprite]

Hi guys been a while posting in here (yes I did post a few days ago, but it was only a quick post and nothing really spectacular) anywayI found this over at PS3Portal, and thought you guys might like to read the latest bit of fanboyism but this time from a Sony FB and no negative thought here.

Hi everyone, I'm also a member on that same site as Archy, and have somemore information for you over this. I too believe that atleast at its core, the RSX is G80 based, and maybe customised more for use with the Cell and PS3 than PC's.

At E3-2K6, developers were running all their games on anything from Crossfire X1900XTX's to Quad-Sli 7900 GX2's. Apperently, the rumor was that they were told the final dev kits would include a RSX far more powerful than originaly thought to be, and as such they all scrambled to find the most powerful hardware at the time.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20060606094811.html

Here may be the biggest give away though. At a big press event, Derek Perez, the Nvidia VP, is being interviewed. He is talking about the Quad-Sli capabilities of the new Nvidia cards, and then begins to talk PS3. He says that the quad-sli computers behind him are a great example of what gaming on the PS3 will be like. Whether he was refering to the powerful relationship between the RSX and the Cell, or a more powerful RSX, we don't know. But I doubt the VP for Nvidia would be stupid enough to compare an G70 based system to quad-sli unless he knows something else. But he then goes on. After talking about the 4 cards in the computers again, he is asked if the PS3 would have 4 cards(cores). He then proceeds to laugh nervously, backtrack a bit, answer no, and then say, "hehe, can you imgaine how big that PS3 would be with 4 cards, it would be as big as your refrigerator" This is really a dumb and telling comment. Obviously, he let a bit too much slip, and had to backtrack really quickly. Also, the G80 will be a true dual core gpu. Interesting....
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=8905&pl=game&type=wmv

If the RSX is infact more G80 based, that would explain quite a few things.

THE G80 SUPPORTS HCMI, WHICH IS A BIG PROBLEM FOR SONY WITH BLU RAY RIGHT NOW
-THE RSX IS SUPPOSED TO BE A SHADING MONSTER ACCORDING TO DEVELOPERS, THE G70 CAN BARELY PERFORM SM3.0
-THE G80 WOULD BE A TOP OF THE LINE GPU AT LAUNCH, THE MOST POWERFUL AVAILABLE, LIKE SONY SAID
-IT WOULD EXPLAIN SONY'S WILD CLAIMS THAT THE PS3 WILL BEAT THE 360 INTO THE GROUND ON EVERY FRONT
-IT WOULD EXPLAIN THE ABNORMALY HIGH PRICE, EVEN FOR THE TECH THAT WE ALREADY KNOW IS IN IT
-IT WOULD EXPLAIN WHY THE DEVELOPERS ARE UNDER STRICT NSA'S, WHICH WON'T ALLOW THEM TO SPEAK OF THE RSX AT ALL

So essentially, my theory is that the E3-2K5 RSX was really a lie, something to hold off the press. The G80 has been the planned since the beggining, but they wanted to hold off on announcing it until before launch, so they have something to justify the price and create massive hype for them. This would explain the crazy target renders, ect...

It viscerally makes alot of sense, even if it may be far fetched.

Just my oppinion.

just so you guys know, he is a newbie, but he has a point, and I kind of hope he is correct with the way he thinks, hell at least it isnt "Ohh Sony are the spaw of the devil, and the price of the PS3 will plumit 1st world countries into third world like debt"

 

[LaBounti]

Thats kinda funny since No PS3 games will use Shader Model 3.0, sigh.. SM3 is a part of directX PS3 will not use direct X. PS3 will use everything and anything but directX. OpenGL 2.0 ES has HLSL like SM3 and can do everything SM3 can.

Lastly consoles dont use graphics "cards" so why do people say RSX is a card? its a chip not a card. And PS3 devkits have been around long before E3 06 and used one 7800GTX512 was in the alpha kits.

The link in the artical is and was a rumor and was posted on June 6th. the whole Quad SLI thing is from CES06 that was what half a year ago?

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

PS3's GPU is not G80 based.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Analyst: PS3 Production ‘On Track’

By Kris Graft

An analyst at Lazard Capital Markets has followed up on Sony’s financial report, saying that the electronics manufacturer appears to be set to meet its goal of six million PlayStation 3 units shipped by April 2007.
Sony, whose games division suffered a $231 million loss for Q1 due mainly to PS3 launch-related expenses, today reaffirmed that it still expects to ship six million PS3s by the end of its fiscal year ending March 31, 2007.

Colin Sebastian of Lazard Capital Markets stated, “While meaningful execution risk remains in the months ahead of the launch, we believe that guidance suggests that development is still on track, despite the inherent complexities of the platform. Sony indicated it plans to manufacture the PS3 in its own Japanese plants as well as through outsourcing partners in China.”

The complexities that Sebastian refers to are the staggering amount of components that will be crammed into the final PS3 hardware. In late June at the MI6 game marketing conference, AmTech Research’s P.J. McNealy said, “While Sony has certain manufacturing advantages, at the end of the day, this is a very complex process, and they’re going to be limited to the yields that they can come up with.” He predicted that PS3 production would start in late July or early August.

Sony has repeatedly claimed that it will have two million PS3 units ready for the worldwide launch in November, with one million shipped out every month afterwards to meet the six million target.

The company also reaffirmed its software shipment target of 250 million units by the end of the year between the PS2, PS3 and PSP.

Earlier this week, Next-Gen broke the news that SCEA has shipped over 10,000 PS3 development kits to over 200 developers.

 

[Jedi2016]

Oh, and for the naysayers, even with the losses in the game division due to R&D and startup costs for the PS3, Sony as a whole just posted quarterly profits exceeding a quarter of a billion dollars.

They're doing fine.

 

[Sprite]

Thats kinda funny since No PS3 games will use Shader Model 3.0, sigh.. SM3 is a part of directX PS3 will not use direct X. PS3 will use everything and anything but directX. OpenGL 2.0 ES has HLSL like SM3 and can do everything SM3 can.

He never said the RSX would use SM3.0, he said that the "THE G70 CAN BARELY PERFORM SM3.0" but the RSX will be able to run more complex shaders than SM3.0 thus his thinking that it cant be based on the G70 since it cant preform as well whith SM3.0.

Lastly consoles dont use graphics "cards" so why do people say RSX is a card? its a chip not a card. And PS3 devkits have been around long before E3 06 and used one 7800GTX512 was in the alpha kits.

The RSX is the GPU yes, but again he never said anything about it been a graphics card, he was simply comparing GPU's the G70 and G80 no boards at all, and waht he said about the dev kits is totally true, as most developers didnt get dev kits straight away, and most used generic hardware to demo thier games at E3 '05.

The link in the artical is and was a rumor and was posted on June 6th. the whole Quad SLI thing is from CES06 that was what half a year ago?

Yes it was, but if you actually watch the video on game trailers (this is what he was pataining to) the guys over at the Nvidia Booth compared the PS3 to a quad SLI pc in terms of quality of graphics "this is what you should expect form PS3" dosnt get any clearer than that, and this was on video, not need for translations and dodgy reporting here.

Im not saying that his post was totally true and is more than likly a load of rubbish, but I do hope that the RSX is a more powerfully GPU than the G70.

 

[LaBounti]

I was speaking more general than based on the artical. People do call the gpu in Xbox 360 and PS3 cards.. Thats all i was saying.

As far as shader model 3. Why would it matter if G70 isnt that great at it if its(SM3) not going to be used anyway?

 

[Sprite]

As far as shader model 3. Why would it matter if G70 isnt that great at it if its(SM3) not going to be used anyway?

Well I think what he was trying to say was this:

PS3 shader tech more powerfully and demanding than SM3.0

G70 runs slow when using SM3.0

If the RSX is G70 based then its going to be mega slow when running the more powerfull shader tech.

But

If the RSX is G80 based then this would account for the dev teams stateing that the PS3 is a shader monster.

or at least thats how I read the article, and yeh I also hate FB's who say that the GPU's in consoles are cards. But hey they arn't as smart as us

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

one thing I just thought of that kind of bothers me...

Isn't the PS3 being offered in black only? And the controllers were silver?

rofl, I know it's petty...but man

 

[fasj6418]

they will sell the PS3 in 3 colors, but at launch only the black model will be avaliable. (don´t know why). that´s why you saw a silver controller and a black PS3.

i hope to get a silver one for myself

 

[DuckRacer]

one thing I just thought of that kind of bothers me...

Isn't the PS3 being offered in black only? And the controllers were silver?

rofl, I know it's petty...but man

From this post:

Q3. Do you have two color variations of black and silver for two different models ?
A3. This model comes in one color (clear black) only. There may be color variations in the future.

I wouldn't count it out.

 

[Jedi2016]

Look around a little more, and you'll see that most recent pictures of the black PS3 also shows a black controller. *gasp*

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

Look around a little more, and you'll see that most recent pictures of the black PS3 also shows a black controller. *gasp*

I'd forgotten about the huge one. Good point!

I really don't think that the Silver model will be available any time in the near future, probably in a year or so, if that. Sony is not known for their wide selection of colors outside of Japan. I can't think of one occasion where an alternate color Playstation was offered in the US...maybe one in EU?

 

[slackbladder]

We've had silver PS2's in the UK and silver PSTwo's too..err..you know what I mean!
But they were always a very limited number available. I would'nt have thought people are more likely to buy something just because there are more colours available, are they? What could be the colours available, black, silver and maybe white? I might like a white PS3 though some may feel it would be aping the 360. Still, no use wondering. Black is all you're going to get at launch. As Henry Ford did (or didn't) say "You can have any colour you like as long as it's black".

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

Personally, I'm fine with black, I'd be better with silver, white would be neat.

Doesn't matter, as long as I get my games...and Silent Hill in HD.

 

[LaBounti]

Its going to be the same clear black thats used for psp. So maybe they will sell a cleaning kit for every time you touch the console. A good reason why it should be matte black like ps2.

 

[Sambert]

The colour is a bit of an issue for me, as I'm well and truly tired of the pile of various (size/region) black PS2s that live under my tele. It's nice to have a bit of next-gen buzz that comes with a new colour- and it's a shame that Sony have chosen to go with dust-prone black for another half decade. The parading of silver and white models early on irks me- I know what I’m missin'.

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

Is cleaning once a week really that hard though?

I never really understood peoples problem with dust on black objects...I have a rag...I wipe things down...and everything is now dust free...it's an awesome process.

 

[Sambert]

Is cleaning once a week really that hard though?

I never really understood peoples problem with dust on black objects...I have a rag...I wipe things down...and everything is now dust free...it's an awesome process.

I vac my hardware weekly regardless of the colour. However, dust build–up in the grills is more noticeable with black consoles. If you’ve got a Dreamcast you’ll be able to see what I mean. It’s also a psychological issue- I want the PS3 to feel like a new and fresh experience, not just another black playsation in my living room. Further, as almost all of my A/V gear is silver…
As I said, it’s a bit of an issue, not the end of the world.

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

I vac my hardware weekly regardless of the colour. However, dust build–up in the grills is more noticeable with black consoles. If you’ve got a Dreamcast you’ll be able to see what I mean. It’s also a psychological issue- I want the PS3 to feel like a new and fresh experience, not just another black playsation in my living room. Further, as almost all of my A/V gear is silver…
As I said, it’s a bit of an issue, not the end of the world.

I see what you're saying.

Though, in reality, it would be benificial for both you and the hardware to clean out that dust build up on a regular basis. Dust build up will eventually lead to it excess dust inside the console itself, which will lock in heat, and possibly shorten the life span.

What I use is the small attachment to my vacuum that has a brush on it, sucks most of the dust right off. Either that or the comperssed air cans

 

[Sambert]

---

 

[Sprite]

Sorry to but in on your convo about colours (BTW I would like a black or white one but no silver) Just found this article at PS3 Portal.

At tomshardware, they suggest that the G80 might have a similar functionality. If that's the truth, then there's no way the Playstation 3 can hold a G80 without a major source of power powering it. Unless, of course, the bright minds at Nvidia and Sony, discovered a way to design the RSX to be as powerful as the G80, but have it require less power.

Even though it's getting harder to believe that the RSX could be a G80, in disguise, I sure hope that it is equivalent to a G80. That would be a major reason for them to be keeping the specifications for it secret. Also, it's probably the only thing left to really be amazed at come TGS. The controller, we all know about. We already know that the Playstation 3 will be at the same noise level as the PSTwo. The case is staying the same. The only thing that is really left, is the Online functionality of the Playstation 3, but if that's it, then Sony could just release RSX specifications now, which they are not doing. The Cell, though, could do a 180 on us, and reveal that it's more powerful than Sony actually thought, or is making us think they thought.

So, with all that in mind, if the RSX turns out to be a beast a.k.a. G80, then Sony Playstation 3 fans, in a sense, win. Looking at the R600, and seeing how it requires an Outer Power Supply, and comparing it to the RSX (which could be similar to the G80, but the G80 in the PC would most likely have to have to be outside the PC and have it's own Power Supply too). The RSX looks to be better, since it only requires the internal power from the Power Supply that is inside the Playstation 3.

Even, though, it is just a Geforce 7900 GTX or 7950 GTX, the Playstation 3 is still a great console. But, the way Sony and Nvidia is handling this situation, and not revealing anything about the RSX, makes me suspicious. The article at the beginning of this thread, is further proof that Sony and Nvidia could be hiding something grand.

In my opinion, I believe that the RSX being equivalent to a G80, would definately be on the same level as the announcement of the Wii controller, at last year's TGS. Or, maybe Sony is just making us believe that the major news that is going to come during TGS will be about the RSX, when really, it will be about something else, maybe something even more significant. O.o Sony is sneaky, so let's see what they have up their sleeves. The sneakiness could be the Cell showing it's true colors. Smile Having the Cell being more better than previously thought, could also be on par with the announcement of the Wii controller at last year's TGS. I guess, we will just have to wait and see. Either way, we are still getting a great console.

and these from a Sony Online Entertainment blog over at IGN

The power of the PS3 is starting to become apparent to us as artists. The raw graphics power of the machine is pretty amazing, but the one thing, or I should say things, that has quite a few of us excited is the exploitation of the SPU’s. It is pretty amazing what can be off loaded to the SPU’s. For example, we have the reactive water running off one of them right now and it looks great (and it isn’t even totally complete yet w00t!) In addition, we are planning on using the SPU’s for radial flora, particle FX, and real time physics simulation. There are more details about the system I would love to talk about, but I might be violating my NDA.

With the increased memory of the new PS3 hardware, we are enabled to have a much higher texel density which in turn makes running in the hi-definition modes look fantastic. It sort of makes me laugh that games like Dark Kingdom, will be a big reason that people will buy hi-definition TVs.

Well, more to come as I can write it,

Bill Yeatts
Art Director

and according to the forums over at Ninja Theory they are saying that the RSX is more powerfull than previously thought, the rumors that Sony will indeed announce that the RSX is either G80 based or even based on the GPU from the 7950GTX cards at TGS '06. So it looks like the PS3's possative rumor mill is grinding to a slow walk again with TGS ahead.

 

[slackbladder]

TGS will have to be good for Sony as it'll be the last time to really generate good vibes. Of course positive rumour can still be as misleading as negative, but it makes a change.

As for the black PS3, I like the blackness of it. To quote Nigel Tufnell of British rock band "Spinal Tap". "It's like, how much more black could this be? And the answer is none. None more black".

 

[LaBounti]

Is cleaning once a week really that hard though?

I never really understood peoples problem with dust on black objects...I have a rag...I wipe things down...and everything is now dust free...it's an awesome process.

No no. Not dust, finger prints and smugdes that will be clearly seen because of the material, clear black. Its used on PsP and it smudges with every touch. Sony knew this so it shipped with a soft cloth rag.

 

[DuckRacer]

Sony knew this so it shipped with a soft cloth rag.

Really? When I used to have mine, I thought the cloth was to wipe the screen down.

EDIT: Also, another question. Is 60 FPS a standard for every game? Like for example, EA makes NFS: Carbon 30 FPS for all platforms. Would they need to bump it up to 60 FPS for the PS3? Or is it like the 360 with a mix of 30 and 60 FPS titles?

 

[slackbladder]

I don't think all PS3 games will be 60fps. I'm sure a developer at Ninja Theory talking about Heavenly Sword said they thought it would be 30fps (though at E3 it was faster). I'm not sure what is needed to make a game 60fps. I mean GT4 was 60fps and great looking in 480p and I guess it could have been prettier if it ran at half the speed but it would only have been half the game in my eyes.
I guess it's a choice between graphics and gameplay. Smoother is always better in my book but looks sells a product (upto a point). I guess it will vary from game to game.

Just out of interest, if a game runs at 60fps does that mean it has to have double the amount of animations in it than a game running at 30fps? And if so would that take up more memory and space on the disc media?