PS3 General Discussion

How do you apply a "AAA" rating on a game that no one has played and isnt even out? So many people say many AAA titles are coming to 360. Dont thay mean hopefully? Or does the pre AAA mean super hyped?
 
Jeremy Ricci
I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure I remember IBM exec's talking about how the PPE is capable of running Windows OS's.

The SPE's do not make up the processor, they tag along with the PPE. If a mother board were to release that supported the flex I/O of the Cell, and supported XDR memory (IIRC the cell requires both) then it should be no problem to run a Windows OS on the Cell processor. However, doing this, without any additional software support, would make the SPE's useless since they would have no instructions being sent to them.
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Yes but the point i was making was the CEll would preform the same tasks slower. I didnt say anything about not running an OS. It would just do it slower. fully optimize for cell is another story.
 
LB is correct, CELL is not optimised to run certain progs, so it would run slow. If they did optimise it, it would be fast.

edit BTW this was my first post using the PSP :D how cool is this.
 
its not that much of a deal if cell can´t take over PC´s. all i care is that its good for gaming.

AA might not be needed in this gen. if the graphics are really good, there´s no point of applying AA to make it look better. i saw a developer say that... not sure but i think it was the guy from untold legends on IGN weekly or 1up show...

they might not need all 7 cores that they have avaliable, but it would be nice to have at least 2 of then for AI. generations come and go, and the AI is always STUPID.
 
sprite
LB is correct, CELL is not optimised to run certain progs, so it would run slow. If they did optimise it, it would be fast.

edit BTW this was my first post using the PSP :D how cool is this.
Click to expand...

Isnt it!? It so easy to save photos too, directly from the net to use as wall papers.

I've lived with aliasing all my life and not once have i ever cried about it as much as some people do. Daytona USA came out and people werent saying, "Ugh this looks awful, look at all the jaggies, im going back to pole position". People now are cry babies when it comes alaising..... I dont use AA in any of my pc games.
 
LaBounti
Isnt it!? It so easy to save photos too, directly from the net to use as wall papers.

I've lived with aliasing all my life and not once have i ever cried about it as much as some people do. Daytona USA came out and people werent saying, "Ugh this looks awful, look at all the jaggies, im going back to pole position". People now are cry babies when it comes alaising..... I dont use AA in any of my pc games.
Click to expand...
Well, it gets rid of a ton of jaggies. It's not a deal breaker, but now, when you're going to spend a lot of money for a PS3, you're going to want your games nearly jaggie-free.
 
That is if you care in the first place then yes you do. I dont care. Well with Oblivion you can't have HDR and AA so i choose HDR over AA. I dont notice the jaggies when the game is running 720p with HDR because I'm not thinking about them.
 
TO take a few steps back to the Cell discussion, I have to clear it up.

The PPE in the Cell is just as performance oriented and as powerful as a current gen AMD or Intel chip, running around 1.8-2.2Ghz. It would run Windows, Photoshop, Word, etc, at the same speeds as the said processors. The *only* time that SPE's matter, and "optimization" matters, is if the SPE's are to be utilized.

For the Cell to run Windows and Windows based applications, it would simply need a mother board, a chipset, memory, and drivers for Windows (so windows can understand how to send data to the Cell for processing).

Again, since there are no PC apps that would use the SPE's, they would do nothing, but the PPE it self (The *core* element in the Cell) is powerful enough to do all of the said features.

The only reason you don't see it in computers right now is:

1. There are no drivers
2. No one is going ot increase the cost of already low cost PC's to put in a processor that will not get utilized by nearly all software (by that I mean SPE's not being used by software).
3. A new chipset, mobo, and memory are all required, and they would be rather expensive, given their would be limited market.


These are the reasons they aren't in PC...not because it can't perform as well...that it merely a myth.
 
PS3: Pros and cons up until now

Posted Aug 1st 2006 5:30PM by Blake Snow

Associated Content explores Sony's pros and cons in how they've handled their PS3 campaign up until now. From the article: "The PS3 has caused quite a stirring over the past 2 years: from a general excitement to astonishment to disappointment. How did this happen? Let's look at what Sony did right, and what they did wrong, and every shades of gray in between."

The list is organized as follows:

PROS

The technical power of the Cell
Blu-ray: more space (52G) is only a good thing
PlayStation is still the leader in the gaming industry
PSX, PS2 backwards compatibility (huge library of games)
Strong 3rd-party support
Controller: motion-sensing addition only a good thing
Online play (though still lackluster)
Standard harddrives
1080p high definition gaming
Web browsing, just like the PSP
Connection to the PSP to enhance gameplay
CONS

Cost: we've said it a million times
Blue-Ray: too expensive storage medium
Size: the thing is big
High game prices
Architecture: Cell is too unique and could cause developer problems
No rumble
Even with redundancy, PS3 might have high defects at launch
Despite its strengths, the PS3 will only be marginally better than its competitors
Ken Kutaragi (will ruin the PS3?)

joystiq.com
 
I hope those that say the Blu-ray is too expensive of a storage medium realise that the huge bulk of Blu-Ray sales will be, not movies or games, but blank discs to be used a removable storage.
 
Toronado
I hope those that say the Blu-ray is too expensive of a storage medium realise that the huge bulk of Blu-Ray sales will be, not movies or games, but blank discs to be used a removable storage.
Click to expand...
How much would a Blu-ray drive for a PC cost? Since really, I don't think a ton of people will buy BDs when they can't put music or videos or files or whatever on it.

EDIT: Also, how would someone define a AAA title?
 
4 months to go for the launch..

Is Sony fighting a losing battle?

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Sony is facing a struggle over its PlayStation 3, with critics concerned about the processor and the price. Jack Schofield reports on the next stage in the console wars[/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Thursday August 3, 2006
The Guardian

[/FONT]
At the E3 games trade show in Los Angeles in May 2005, Ken Kutaragi, head of Sony Computer Entertainment, proudly announced the PlayStation 3 as a "supercomputer for computer entertainment". The man who created the PlayStation phenomenon now had an unbeatable hardware specification, including a new multi-core processor and a high definition Blu-ray movie player, plus an incredible series of game demos. The world's press lapped it up.
Sony already dominated the games market, having comprehensively crushed both previous leaders, Sega and Nintendo. Now most people seemed willing it to grant it victory in the battle for the next generation, before any of the machines had even been launched.
But it has been all downhill from there. "People in gaming and game publishing are drastically less excited about PlayStation 3 than they were a year ago, and competition is looking much stronger," says David Cole, a market analyst and president of San Diego-based games specialist DFC Intelligence, quoted in The Wall Street Journal.
First to worst
Sony could even go from first to worst. In a research note published on its website, DFC commented: "While it has always been clear that Sony's dominant market share was destined to decline, there now appears to be the distinct possibility the PlayStation 3 could end up third in market share behind both the [Microsoft] Xbox 360 and Nintendo Wii (tinyurl.com/rjvo8)."
So how did it come to this?
The backlash started with the Killzone game demo shown at E3. This was hotly debated in the online community of games sites, blogs and chat forums, and the influential IGN site (since bought by Rupert Murdoch) announced that "IGN believes, overwhelmingly, that the video is a fake".
The PS3's new Cell processor came in for similar treatment, prompted partly by Major Nelson (majornelson.com), a Microsoft employee who has become, in his own time, a hugely popular blogger. The Cell does, in theory, offer supercomputer-type power, as Kutaragi claimed. However, doubts were raised about its suitability for games playing, and whether software developers could actually exploit its power.
This point was made by star programmer John Carmack, co-creator of Doom, who famously called the Cell chip a "pain in my ass". According to a breathless Forbes magazine cover story, Holy Chip!, the Cell "runs at least ten times as fast as Intel's most powerful Pentium. More important, Cell boasts a staggering fiftyfold advantage in handling graphics-intensive applications that will define the next generation of visual entertainment (tinyurl.com/metvd). Odd, then, that it can't seem to drive the PS3's graphics - Sony eventually turned to nVidia for a PC-type graphics processor similar to the one used in the Xbox. The reality still seems to be a little short of the hype.
Image battering
Blu-ray's image has also been battered during the past year. It was initially seen as the inevitable successor to DVD, but the rival Toshiba-backed HD-DVD high-definition system - which also uses a blue-ray laser - got to market first. In the US, Sony didn't even make the commercial launch of its own format, as its standalone Blu-ray players were repeatedly delayed. Worse, the Samsung BD-P1000 player that was released performed worse than expected, apparently because of an "incorrect default setting" in a chip.
Although HD-DVD is still the underdog, it has also picked up support from Intel and Microsoft, who were concerned that the Blu-ray camp's commitment to copy protection might put a damper on their plans for exploiting video in Viiv and Media Center PCs.
Then there's the price problem. In going for new technologies with Cell and Blu-ray, Sony has committed to using components that are much more expensive than the ones in the rival Xbox 360 and Wii consoles. As a result, the PS3 will cost $499 for the low-end model and $599 for the full-spec version - probably £425 in the UK. That's 50% more than an Xbox 360, twice the price of a Wii, and more than three times the price of a PlayStation 2.
Rather than dampening down the overheated online arguments about all these issues, Sony's staff have tended to feed the flames, appearing remote or even arrogant. For example, Kaz Hirai, president and chief executive of Sony Computer Entertainment America, recently told PlayStation Magazine: "Every time we go down a path, we look behind and [Microsoft is] right there - we just can't shake these guys. I wish that they would come up with some strategies of their own, but they seem to be going down the path of everything we do."
It's a remark that Hirai might have got away with in an earlier age, but it was instantly dismembered online. Microsoft was first to put a hard drive in a console, and pioneered with its Xbox Live community building (or both Microsoft and Sony are following the Sega Dreamcast). Microsoft was first to do a global console launch, which Sony is emulating. Microsoft offered two versions of its Xbox 360 console - which Sony said was a bad idea - but there will be two versions of the PS3, and so on.
Paul Jackson, who specialises in consumer technologies for market analysts Forrester Research, says: "You can't overestimate how much negativity there is around the PlayStation 3 in the Web 2.0/blogging space, even among hardcore PlayStation fans. The stories just keep getting worse and worse. They've got a real fight on their hands."
But Sony isn't fighting it. Microsoft had Major Nelson embedded in the online community, and it fed the press a string of encouraging titbits about the progress it was making. Sony, by contrast, is often silent, and one contact told me the games developers weren't saying anything because they were "scared of the wrath of Phil Harrison", who is president of Sony's worldwide studios.
Others describe Harrison as "a really nice guy", and on the phone he sounded remarkably laid back. According to Harrison, "it's all going well. We are in full swing, from a developer point of view, and over 10,000 development kits have been shipped. Developers now have final hardware in their hands, though there will be some upgrades to the operating system - there's nothing unusual about that. The new controller is now in developers' hands, so all the pieces of the puzzle are there."
The development systems have Blu-ray drives, and Harrison says many developers now have Blu-ray burners in their PCs, "so they are now doing their first iterations of games running off discs".
Harrison says: "We have shown more playable games than ever before, so the signs are good, and right now there are more than 100 Blu-ray movies available today, in the US. More than 100 games are in development, and all the major third-party publishers have pledged their strategic support for the platform."
Developer support is a key issue, because of the cost. "The risk of developing a computer game is now much bigger than it was before. They have to be the quality of big budget movies with the same quality of character acting, animation, music, design and so on," says Jez San, author of StarGlider and founder of the now-defunct Argonaut Software, and an investor in a company developing a major PS3 game, Heavenly Sword. "In the old days when games cost £1 million, it was bad enough," says San. "Now it can cost £5 to £10 million to develop one game for one platform, and no one can afford a flop."
I have found San a good guide to the industry over the past two decades, and he thinks the PS3 will win, "but only because it's got Blu-ray". San says: "I think the combination of a next-generation games machine and a next-generation DVD payer that plays full high definition movies is very compelling, despite the huge price.
"Remember, price is just a function of time and volume. It doesn't matter what the PS3 comes out at, it's what it gets down to, over time, that's important."
At Forrester, however, Jackson thinks Blu-ray "is not really going to be a deal-maker, given the paucity of Blu-ray films. At the moment, consumers are not clamouring for something better than their DVDs," he says, "but it could still be a force. Far more people will go for a PS3 than spend $1,000 on a Blu-ray player, so Sony stands a good choice of coming out on top. But it will be a hard fight, and consumers still have Beta versus VHS in the back of their minds."
Jackson agrees that "it's a question of how quickly [Sony] gets the price down. You can't get to the mass market until you get down to $300/£200." That will be hard, given that iSuppli and Merrill Lynch have estimated the cost of the parts needed to make a PS3 at between $700 and $880. It's normal to launch games consoles at a loss, but losing $200 on 10 million machines will cost Sony $2 billion, and Sony's games division has already reported an operating loss of $231.5 million for its latest financial quarter. Microsoft's games division loses, or invests, similar amounts, but Microsoft can afford it.
Still, Sony is now gearing up for its next big push, which will start with the Tokyo Games Show on September 22. Kutaragi is scheduled to give the keynote speech: Next Generation Entertainment Made by the PS3. All being well, this should be followed by the PS3's launch in Japan on November 11, and in the US and Europe on November 17. Stock shortages will ensure the PS3 sells out for Christmas, but the real battle will be fought next year and there may not be a winner. As San points out, for the first time, all three machines have their own appeal, they're not just "me too" efforts. A three-way tie is a possibility, and that would set up an even more interesting battle for the next round ...

http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,1835502,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=20
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what we don´t know is, how much of this bad vibe is getting to the avarage joe consumer? that´s the main question. its a bit less than 4 months to the release, and the best thing that could happen for sony is to show games, real good games playing, that´s all that matters.

what, you can´t burn documents that you have in your PC to a blu-ray? now i got lost:dunce:
 
I'm serious. Once the system launches, and none of this "doomsday" crap happens, everyone will forget all about it and we can get on with playing some kick-ass games.

The same thing happened with the Xbox360, remember. Aside from the RROD (similar to the BSOD), all the naysayers generally shut up once the system was actually launched. I just want the same thing to happen to us for a change.
 
I agree, th ePS3 will be a sell out at launch imo, and then the few people that held back on one becuase of there reports will be abel to see what it's like for themselves. As Sony have said, they have a strong launch lineup, as long as the shops don't price the games too to high make more of a profit, I don't see any real worries for Sony.
 
Jedi2016
I'm serious. Once the system launches, and none of this "doomsday" crap happens, everyone will forget all about it and we can get on with playing some kick-ass games.

The same thing happened with the Xbox360, remember. Aside from the RROD (similar to the BSOD), all the naysayers generally shut up once the system was actually launched. I just want the same thing to happen to us for a change.
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I'm sure you're serious. I thought it was funny what you said and how you said it.

I don't agree completely, though. I think anti-Sony fanboys wont stop arguing the XBox360 vs. PS3 debacle once the PS3 is released.
 
Du&#267
How much would a Blu-ray drive for a PC cost? Since really, I don't think a ton of people will buy BDs when they can't put music or videos or files or whatever on it.
Click to expand...
What are you talking about? There have been Blu-Ray burners out for PC's since the middle of June. They are going to succeed in the data archiving martketplace simply because they are the largest format.
Microsoft
Although HD-DVD is still the underdog, it has also picked up support from Intel and Microsoft, who were concerned that the Blu-ray camp's commitment to copy protection might put a damper on their plans for exploiting video in Viiv and Media Center PCs.
Click to expand...
:lol::lol: If Microsoft is doing anything for the format, they are going to be hurting it's image.
 
Solid Lifters
I don't agree completely, though. I think anti-Sony fanboys wont stop arguing the XBox360 vs. PS3 debacle once the PS3 is released.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but that's just regular system-war stuff. I'm referring to the "PS3 games are a hundred bucks!!", "There's no such thing as a $500 PS3", "Sony is teh DOOMED!!".

For example, the latest one.. A report that Atari games for PS3 have been "pushed back" into 2007. The fanboys are using it as ammo saying that PS3 development is super-expensive and too difficult, that Atari is favoring the Wii over the PS3, etc.

Fact is, Atari has always planned to release their PS3 games after the new year, they've never made any plans to release any at launch. So there's no "delay" and nothing has been "pushed back" at all. And, they're all overlooking the minor fact that 2007 begins just a month and a half after PS3 launches. MOST developers won't have games until '07. That doesn't mean that they're delayed.

I just want the stupidity to stop.
 
Toronado
What are you talking about? There have been Blu-Ray burners out for PC's since the middle of June. They are going to succeed in the data archiving martketplace simply because they are the largest format.
Click to expand...
Blu-ray burners are $500+ right now. And I don't think a ton of people will spend $500 to store more of their music and photos and documents on a single disc. Granted, in the next few years, it'll cheapen and become a lot more popular, but I don't see what you're talking about happening in a few years.
 
The thing is, though, that if either format succeeds it will be due to that market, and not the movie industry or games industry, no matter if Blu-ray is the only thing supported in one. And it's logical to assume that people still step up to the largest format for systems back-up and storage.
 
Phil Harrison: PS3 production in full swing
by Zhao Jingyu

Sony's Phil Harrison has confirmed that PlayStation 3 production is in “full swing” in an interview with British newspaper, The Guardian. During the interview, he also mentioned that 10,000 final hardware developer kits have been shipped, and that the new controllers are also “in developers' hands, so all the pieces of the puzzle are there”.

On the Blu-ray front, Harrison said that “signs are good”, adding that “here are more than 100 Blu-ray movies available today, in the US. More than 100 games are in development [for the PS3], and all the major third party publishers have pledged their strategic support for the platform”. He also talked about many studios having Blu-ray drives in their PCs so that they can run and burn games on Blu-ray discs.

Harrison's confirmation comes weeks after an anonymous source leaked that Taiwanese company, Asustek begun production of the PlayStation 3 last month. Sony is aiming to launch with 2 million units and ship a total of 6 million units by the end of its fiscal year, March 31st 200
ps3Land.com
 
Du&#267
Blu-ray burners are $500+ right now.
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When CD burners first came out, they were $800, and the 2x discs were $50 apiece. Same thing for DVD burners. Get a grip.

Oh, there's another thing. When dual layer DVD burners hit the market, I believe they premiered at $299, not $499 like I expected them too, and in mere weeks, the prices began dropping. Mine cost all of $60, and you can get them now for less than $40. The reason? The market is ravenous for the new storage formats like Blu-ray. It won't take a few years for prices to become reasoable. The migration to the new format will be rapid. I expect less than two.
 
Tenacious D
When CD burners first came out, they were $800, and the discs were $50 apiece. Same thing for DVD burners. Get a grip.
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
Tenacious D
When CD burners first came out, they were $800, and the 2x discs were $50 apiece. Same thing for DVD burners. Get a grip.

Oh, there's another thing. When dual layer DVD burners hit the market, I believe they premiered at $299, not $499 like I expected them too, and in mere weeks, the prices began dropping. Mine cost all of $60, and you can get them now for less than $40. The reason? The market is ravenous for the new storage formats like Blu-ray. It won't take a few years for prices to become reasoable. The migration to the new format will be rapid. I expect less than two.
Click to expand...
Did you even read this part?!?

Me
Granted, in the next few years, it'll cheapen and become a lot more popular, but I don't see what you're talking about happening in a few years.
Click to expand...
I probably should've put "until a few years" than "in a few years", though, to get my point across.
 
There's another thing to consider. People who work in multimedia are starved for high capacity media to store production work on. Pro-level magnetic optical media is high capacity, but it's much more expensive. I make do with my dual layer DVD right now using single layer discs because they're reliable and affordable, but just backing up the PC is a chore.

When I get around to doing original music on the PC, the audio files this will create will be enormous. It would be MUCH more convenient to save a music session on a Blu-ray disc rather than two or three DVDs, and go through the headaches of sorting out which files go with what audio tracks.

And Duck, to reiterate, I disagree with your time scale. The market has been hollering for a new format for a few years now.
 

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