Quality over Quantity (GT7)

quality or quantity


  • Total voters
    299
We're not talking about brands of mayonnaise here (same stuff, different label; often literally), this is more like the difference between chocolate bars (very different blend and, crucially, choice of ingredients). Mayonnaise is mayonnaise, more or less, but everyone has a favourite chocolate bar - and that's OK. Thankfully, despite the limited range of expression in terms of ingredient choice for chocolate bars, you're not really limited for a car list in anything like the same way.
This whole quote is important, but I want to focus on this last paragraph.
128898.jpg

This is what Praise has the audacity to label 'Traditional Mayonnaise'; it is bitter and hideous. Sadly it is very widely served in Australia, and has brainwashed millions into believing that mayonnaise is a thicker version of coleslaw dressing. :yuck:
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And this is S&W Mayonnaise, lustrous, beautiful, amazing and with an entirely different flavour to Praise and other mayonnaises (even wider than the differences between competing brands of BBQ Sauce). Tastes delicious when mixed with nearly anything, great for toast, sandwiches, toasted sandwiches, burgers, wraps, or directly on top of a chicken schnitzel.
:bowdown:
Sorry mate, but as a man who takes his mayonnaise seriously, I couldn't let this go.:lol:

But I digress, variety is the mayonnaise of life, and most of us would be crushed if we lost our favourite standard cars. That said, it's impossible to please everybody, so I'm not quite sure what the best solution would be. My choice would be to leave standard cars in (optionally), and focus on remodelling the most popular standard cars and introducing new cars equally. 70 new cars and 70+ remodelled standards would be great. They could gather data on which standard cars are the most used in GT6 to decide which ones to upgrade first. (plus historically important models, to Kaz's discretion)
 
Really, the 1000+ cars is just feels like a marketing technique to me. I'm not sure how many there is once you take out x-version and y-version, but it cannot be that many. Finer tuning and livery editors can most definitely replace this. With the exception of special interior features and things like that. Also body kits can help fix the exterior cosmetics too. That can replace most of the standard and/or lower-end premiums in the game.
Example:

1 Buy an R34(since we all know there are all tons of these in the game)
2 Apply the bumpers, side skirts, spoiler, etc of that custom car you wish to clone(Mine's, BLITZ, whatever
3 Build the vinyls in the livery editor or even buy them in a small market where people post them up on game servers
4 Tune the car to pre-built tunes you can select in game

The time they could save doin this instead of making all of the different cars could drastically speed up the process of the game. If there seems to be an error in my methods, please tell me. I'm sure I messed something in this working of the game.
 
What makes them "extra special" to warrant spending more effort on them? We already have 400, so presumably there is something lacking in the existing Premiums.



Any data to back that up? The point is that any one (average, probably non-GTP) player might only touch a few hundred cars at most, and whilst there will be islands of overlap between those usage lists that may point to a "popular cars" list maybe two or three times the size of the average player's total car use, there will also be plenty of fringe. It's really all about that fringe, that's where the magic of "esoteric" car lists lies (esoteric but containing some hidden gem that makes one player's day; multiply that effect with the size of the car list); and it's not all about your fringe, or mine.



By offering fewer cars, you are conceding to having less variety. How do you do justice to the rich history of motoring with just 150 cars? This is not Need For Speed, where you absolutely positively gotta have every "hot new car" in the game, but a rather more broad, even experimental (VGT), experience. By offering the same cars as every other game (which would have to happen to condense enough enticement - marketing - into such a "short" list), you're also conceding to having less variety. The large car count frees PD from having to make that specific concession, that is: offering the exact same car list as every other bugger.

We're not talking about brands of mayonnaise here (same stuff, different label; often literally), this is more like the difference between chocolate bars (very different blend and, crucially, choice of ingredients). Mayonnaise is mayonnaise, more or less, but everyone has a favourite chocolate bar - and that's OK. Thankfully, despite the limited range of expression in terms of ingredient choice for chocolate bars, you're not really limited for a car list in anything like the same way.


What makes the extra special would be they are the best 250 cars picked for one, and it doesn't have to be 250 I was just using that as reference

Now you want data to back up the 1000 cars not being use of course I don't have that, but I guarantee you it's not hard to figure out that all those 1000-1400 cars aren't being used that much. I mean how many people go after this car in particular Nissan SILVIA Q's (S13) '91?


1990_nissan_silvia_k_s_dia_selection_s13__gt5__by_vertualissimo-d5v888f.jpg


No idea if it's exact car, but just there to prove a point.

You say offering fewer cars means less variety, and I call BS on that we got by just fine from GT1-GT3 it wasn't until GT4 that this car list issue even came up, but guess what difference between GT4 and GT6 is EVENTS! in GT4 those 600 or 700 cars I felt more compelled to race in because of the the events that surrounded a lot of them, but still I say cut back the fat bet no one notices that the car list trimmed down to 500 or even 600 cars I'd bet life savings on it too.

Then you call out Mayonnaise disrespectfully I might add(I love MAYO!:P) Then you won't call out the fact that during that analogy you might as well trade Mayo for Mazda and Nissan, and Mitsubishi etc etc. Same Cars different label when I say that talking about the Lancers, GT-R, Skyline, and Miata.

When I play NFS or even other racing games where the car list isn't so high I still get the feeling that has rich motor racing history no matter the level of simulation or arcade.



Last thing is More does not equal better PD has people fooled with that I mean it's nice to see so many cars, but again half of them are duplicates of a single one once you get past that there are some that just aren't that interesting no matter the story behind them.
 
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What makes the extra special would be they are the best 250 cars picked for one, and it doesn't have to be 250 I was just using that as reference

So you're talking nonsense, then, as we already have 400 Premiums; or are you expecting PD to drop them? I thought we were trying to be practical, not making stuff up for the sake of it.

Now you want data to back up the 1000 cars not being use of course I don't have that, but I guarantee you it's not hard to figure out that all those 1000-1400 cars aren't being used that much. I mean how many people go after this car in particular Nissan SILVIA Q's (S13) '91?

You don't even know how many cars are in the game, let alone how many are used. Seems legit.

No idea if it's exact car, but just there to prove a point.

What are you even on about? That car is an icon. That you don't recognise that only reinforces my point! :)

You say offering fewer cars means less variety, and I call BS on that we got by just fine from GT1-GT3 it wasn't until GT4 that this car list issue even came up, but guess what difference between GT4 and GT6 is EVENTS! in GT4 those 600 or 700 cars I felt more compelled to race in because of the the events that surrounded a lot of them, but still I say cut back the fat bet no one notices that the car list trimmed down to 500 or even 600 cars I'd bet life savings on it too.

By "we" you're clearly not including yourself, as you must not remember the transition from GT2 to GT3.
Events have nothing to do with car count. I bet a lot of people will notice if their favourite car isn't in the game.

Then you call out Mayonnaise disrespectfully I might add(I love MAYO!:P) Then you won't call out the fact that during that analogy you might as well trade Mayo for Mazda and Nissan, and Mitsubishi etc etc. Same Cars different label when I say that talking about the Lancers, GT-R, Skyline, and Miata.

You missed the point. By pandering to the self-proclaimed majority who want the "popular" cars, like many other games, you're not differentiating yourself from those other games. Ergo, mayo is just mayo, and which game you buy just determines the colour of the label.

When I play NFS or even other racing games where the car list isn't so high I still get the feeling that has rich motor racing history no matter the level of simulation or arcade.

Good for you. Keep on playing those games, then, and enjoy yourself! However, many other people don't get that experience with those games. This is my point.

Last thing is More does not equal better PD has people fooled with that I mean it's nice to see so many cars, but again half of them are duplicates of a single one once you get past that there are some that just aren't that interesting no matter the story behind them.

You have no idea about the numbers, so stop abusing them. Those cars are simply not interesting to you. You alone are not that important, sorry.

If you're going to complain about PD choosing certain cars over ones you'd rather have, then you know just how other people feel about their preferred cars being overlooked in favour of the more "popular" ones in almost every game. Variety comes from differentiation.
 
Griffith500 Said
So you're talking nonsense, then, as we already have 400 Premiums; or are you expecting PD to drop them? I thought we were trying to be practical, not making stuff up for the sake of it.

Am I talking nonsense or did I just use that for an example there are 400 premium cars fact, but you don't get the 250 is just an example so whatever.

Griffith500 Said
You don't even know how many cars are in the game, let alone how many are used. Seems legit.

Apparently the hard number of cars is 1197 hence the 1000-1400 number I used earlier which is a guess something you don't seem to understand.


Griffith500 Said
What are you even on about? That car is an icon. That you don't recognise that only reinforces my point! :)

I know it's the SIVLIA you must have gone full retard I just don't know if it's the exact model as I stated before, but my point is so many variants that it doesn't make any sense for the exact same car there are at least 20 variants of this one WHY!


Griffith500 Said
By "we" you're clearly not including yourself, as you must not remember the transition from GT2 to GT3.
Events have nothing to do with car count. I bet a lot of people will notice if their favourite car isn't in the game.

I am including myself it's reflected in the sales numbers regardless people won't care about the number of cars if you can't use them properly that's how I'm backing up my statement that a lot of those cars don't get used cause you can literally make it through most of the game with what maybe 50 cars at best lol. I still stand by my statement if PD decides tomorrow to cut the car list directly in half no one would notice like you think they would.


Griffith500 Said
You have no idea about the numbers, so stop abusing them. Those cars are simply not interesting to you. You alone are not that important, sorry.

If you're going to complain about PD choosing certain cars over ones you'd rather have, then you know just how other people feel about their preferred cars being overlooked in favour of the more "popular" ones in almost every game. Variety comes from differentiation.

You must live under a rock or something you're the one that has no idea why do you think so many people on this site complain about the 100 skylines, 50 miatas, etc etc. WHY!

It's not that they aren't interesting it's that TOO MANY OF THE SAME THING IT'S THE SAME CAR Put it in better perspective like looking at 10 houses the only big difference is paint color if you think that's variety you got to be kidding me.

Which goes back to the 250 cars I'd rather see cars represented well instead just put them there just cause. I feel 1197 cars were put in GT6 just cause that's it when I played other racing games even GT1-4 they didn't feel like after thoughts.
 
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Doing this for Griffith500 so he can understand


  1. S Honda NSX '93
  2. S Honda NSX '95
  3. S Honda NSX '97
  4. S Honda NSX '99
  5. S Honda NSX '01
  6. S Honda NSX Type R '92
  7. P/S Honda NSX Type R '02
  8. S Honda NSX Type S '97
  9. S Honda NSX Type S '99
  10. S Honda NSX Type S '01
  11. S Honda NSX Type S Zero '97
  12. S Honda NSX Type S Zero '99
  13. S Honda NSX-R Concept '01
  14. S Honda NSX-R Prototype LM Race Car
  15. S Honda NSX-R Prototype LM Road Car
  1. S Honda S2000 '99
  2. S Honda S2000 '01
  3. S Honda S2000 '03
  4. P Honda S2000 '06
  5. S Honda S2000 (EU) '99
  6. S Honda S2000 (EU) '01
  7. S Honda S2000 (EU) '03
  8. S Honda S2000 (US) '99
  9. S Honda S2000 (US) '01
  10. S Honda S2000 (US) '04
  11. S Honda S2000 LM Race Car
  12. S Honda S2000 Type V '00
  13. S Honda S2000 Type V '01
  14. S Honda S2000 Type V '03
  15. S Honda S2000 Type V (EU) '00
  16. S Honda S2000 Type V (EU) '01
  17. S Honda S2000 Type V (US) '00
  18. S Honda S2000 Type V (US) '01
  19. S Honda TAKATA DOME NSX (JGTC) '03
  20. P Honda TAKATA DOME NSX (SUPER GT) '06
  1. S Mazda MX-5 1.8 RS (NB, J) '98
  2. S Mazda MX-5 1600 NR-A (NB, J) '04
  3. S Mazda MX-5 1800 RS (NB, J) '00
  4. S Mazda MX-5 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
  5. S Mazda MX-5 J-Limited (NA, J) '91
  6. S Mazda MX-5 J-Limited II (NA, J) '93
  7. S Mazda MX-5 Miata (NA) '89
  8. S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1.8 RS (NB, J) '98
  9. S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1600 NR-A (NB, J) '04
  10. S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '00
  11. S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
  12. S Mazda MX-5 Miata J-Limited (NA, J) '91
  13. S Mazda MX-5 Miata J-Limited II (NA, J) '93
  14. S Mazda MX-5 Miata SR-Limited (NA, J) '97
  15. S Mazda MX-5 Miata S-Special Type I (NA, J) '95
  16. S Mazda MX-5 Miata VR-Limited (NA, J) '95
  17. S Mazda MX-5 Miata V-Special Type II (NA, J) '93
  18. S Mazda MX-5 SR-Limited (NA, J) '97
  19. S Mazda MX-5 S-Special Type I (NA, J) '95
  20. S Mazda MX-5 VR-Limited (NA, J) '95
  21. S Mazda MX-5 V-Special Type II (NA, J) '93

I'm putting this up for Griffith500 because I want you to see the variety. Sadly if this list is correct this isn't even the full list, but some 60 cars are dupes from out of Japan with Mazda and Honda haven't even touched on every car in that particular region so no Toyota or Nissan or even Mitsubishi which means that number could rise to upwards guesstimating that 300 cars could end up being dupes in some form or fashion.

This is why the car balance and the car list is so out of whack.
 
I would happily settle for 100 cars or even less if they came with...

  • Ground-breaking, scalable, competitive AI
  • Lots & Lots of appropriate events
  • Options for Practice and Qualifying for all events
  • Customisable events & championships
  • Livery Editor
Yes Grid Autosport is a fun game...oh wait...wrong forum...lol.
 
I would happily settle for 100 cars or even less if they came with...

  • Ground-breaking, scalable, competitive AI
  • Lots & Lots of appropriate events
  • Options for Practice and Qualifying for all events
  • Customisable events & championships
  • Livery Editor
What was I thinking saying I wanted 400 cars, I want less cars now for the reason you just posted. I'm tired of high car numbers (thanks a lot GT).....
 
If you only put in the Ferrari's and McLarens of the world, it becomes just another racing game, GT has always been about the variety, the unusual, the forgotten, the rare, and I'm sure that has been responsible for the amount of interest and affection for the game.

I'm only *happy* to see a standard go, if it is replaced with a full premium model of the same car. Other than that, for me GT would be a weaker game without them, even though yes, it would be a better looking one.
 
Am I talking nonsense or did I just use that for an example there are 400 premium cars fact, but you don't get the 250 is just an example so whatever.

Apparently the hard number of cars is 1197 hence the 1000-1400 number I used earlier which is a guess something you don't seem to understand.

I know it's the SIVLIA you must have gone full retard I just don't know if it's the exact model as I stated before, but my point is so many variants that it doesn't make any sense for the exact same car there are at least 20 variants of this one WHY!
Because Standards. Easy.
PD have only made one S13 for PS3 / PS4 so far. They surely must make one more at least.

I am including myself it's reflected in the sales numbers regardless people won't care about the number of cars if you can't use them properly that's how I'm backing up my statement that a lot of those cars don't get used cause you can literally make it through most of the game with what maybe 50 cars at best lol. I still stand by my statement if PD decides tomorrow to cut the car list directly in half no one would notice like you think they would.

This has nothing to do with what cars should be axed from the game. More (diverse) events might tempt more people to use more cars, yes, but that's not an argument for having fewer cars.

You must live under a rock or something you're the one that has no idea why do you think so many people on this site complain about the 100 skylines, 50 miatas, etc etc. WHY!

It's not that they aren't interesting it's that TOO MANY OF THE SAME THING IT'S THE SAME CAR Put it in better perspective like looking at 10 houses the only big difference is paint color if you think that's variety you got to be kidding me.

Which goes back to the 250 cars I'd rather see cars represented well instead just put them there just cause. I feel 1197 cars were put in GT6 just cause that's it when I played other racing games even GT1-4 they didn't feel like after thoughts.
It doesn't bother me, because I don't see the duplicates as being in the game at the expense of other cars, for pretty obvious reasons.

And the "living under a rock" comment is precisely what I'm talking about regarding the self-appointment of authority. Because I don't subscribe to the party-prescribed opinion of an actual few, I must be some kind of uncultured recluse, sure.
Yes Grid Autosport is a fun game...oh wait...wrong forum...lol.

And this is precisely the point. Different game, different draw. Buy it, play and enjoy it, if that's your thing. That's what it's there for. If GT is not enjoyable for you, don't buy it; certainly don't try to make it more like something that's already available to buy! GT has its own path to take. :)
 
Doing this for Griffith500 so he can understand


  1. S Honda NSX '93
  2. S Honda NSX '95
  3. S Honda NSX '97
  4. S Honda NSX '99
  5. S Honda NSX '01
  6. S Honda NSX Type R '92
  7. P/S Honda NSX Type R '02
  8. S Honda NSX Type S '97
  9. S Honda NSX Type S '99
  10. S Honda NSX Type S '01
  11. S Honda NSX Type S Zero '97
  12. S Honda NSX Type S Zero '99
  13. S Honda NSX-R Concept '01
  14. S Honda NSX-R Prototype LM Race Car
  15. S Honda NSX-R Prototype LM Road Car
  1. S Honda S2000 '99
  2. S Honda S2000 '01
  3. S Honda S2000 '03
  4. P Honda S2000 '06
  5. S Honda S2000 (EU) '99
  6. S Honda S2000 (EU) '01
  7. S Honda S2000 (EU) '03
  8. S Honda S2000 (US) '99
  9. S Honda S2000 (US) '01
  10. S Honda S2000 (US) '04
  11. S Honda S2000 LM Race Car
  12. S Honda S2000 Type V '00
  13. S Honda S2000 Type V '01
  14. S Honda S2000 Type V '03
  15. S Honda S2000 Type V (EU) '00
  16. S Honda S2000 Type V (EU) '01
  17. S Honda S2000 Type V (US) '00
  18. S Honda S2000 Type V (US) '01
  19. S Honda TAKATA DOME NSX (JGTC) '03
  20. P Honda TAKATA DOME NSX (SUPER GT) '06
  1. S Mazda MX-5 1.8 RS (NB, J) '98
  2. S Mazda MX-5 1600 NR-A (NB, J) '04
  3. S Mazda MX-5 1800 RS (NB, J) '00
  4. S Mazda MX-5 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
  5. S Mazda MX-5 J-Limited (NA, J) '91
  6. S Mazda MX-5 J-Limited II (NA, J) '93
  7. S Mazda MX-5 Miata (NA) '89
  8. S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1.8 RS (NB, J) '98
  9. S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1600 NR-A (NB, J) '04
  10. S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '00
  11. S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
  12. S Mazda MX-5 Miata J-Limited (NA, J) '91
  13. S Mazda MX-5 Miata J-Limited II (NA, J) '93
  14. S Mazda MX-5 Miata SR-Limited (NA, J) '97
  15. S Mazda MX-5 Miata S-Special Type I (NA, J) '95
  16. S Mazda MX-5 Miata VR-Limited (NA, J) '95
  17. S Mazda MX-5 Miata V-Special Type II (NA, J) '93
  18. S Mazda MX-5 SR-Limited (NA, J) '97
  19. S Mazda MX-5 S-Special Type I (NA, J) '95
  20. S Mazda MX-5 VR-Limited (NA, J) '95
  21. S Mazda MX-5 V-Special Type II (NA, J) '93
I'm putting this up for Griffith500 because I want you to see the variety. Sadly if this list is correct this isn't even the full list, but some 60 cars are dupes from out of Japan with Mazda and Honda haven't even touched on every car in that particular region so no Toyota or Nissan or even Mitsubishi which means that number could rise to upwards guesstimating that 300 cars could end up being dupes in some form or fashion.

This is why the car balance and the car list is so out of whack.
Uh oh, you're not the first to post this list. Last time someone did this they were jumped on and it started a war of semantics, so I'll just give a few points.

-There are some substantial differences between regular and Type-R NSX, not to mention that earlier models had pop-up headlamps, and later ones did not. You've also listed the NSX-R concept car and its racing variants too, definitely not duplicates.
-S2000 Race Cars are different to non-race cars, and especially different to the two JGTC NSXs in the same list (though that was probably a typo on your behalf).
-Two Generations of Mazda MX-5, two completely different cars. Also some of those models have different engines.
 
I made a list of cars a long time back that I would like to see and I think that was 200 or less and it covered a whole range of historical, muscle, sports, super and hyper cars. Had some hot hatches and a list of concept cars from the past. My list had about 60 manufacturers. Also had a range of racing cars in mind too. So I would be very happy with 400 perfect premiums. The remaining spaces left by my list would be filled with others I overlooked so even with 400 there is room for a diverse and exciting range.

I definitely agree with quality over quantity and feel that the oversized car count is a marketing tool and maybe people would be excited about 1000 + if there were all individual and not duplicates/close variations. I would love Polyphony to start from scratch and leave all the previous work in the past. That's not to say I don't want content from the earlier games because I do, I just want them represented using the new technology.
 
@Griffith500

I'm not even going to quote your last post. People like you that think I am some kind of self-appointed authority figure have me wrong. Look I've known of GT1 since the Pizza Demo from long ago still have that said demo. That was my first introduction to racing games outside of Ridge Racer.

I got my first start with GT3 hated it when I first got it was boring to me at the time, but as I grew up after that I began to appreciate what GT was it had a great blend of gameplay, fun, and even the graphics were top notch at the time.

These are the reasons I get onto PD/Kaz about the standards as I've known GT I use to tell friends that knew what it is was like ZOMG GT HAS THE BEST GRAPHICS etc etc.

With that said that's no longer the case which is why I'm highly upset with PD/Kaz for even saying Standards are here to stay because just like the rest of the game seems like to me the rest of world caught up, and is starting to pass him by, and that consistent quality I once knew has vanished.

Look if taking a pass on standards in GT7 gets GT back near the top I'm all for that because again all these standards are going to backfire in front of Kaz's face.

In fact why do you think it's backfired so far in regards to the sales figures because while working/slaving away with those standards-premium conversions seems like cared to much about that then the game itself.


I speak for myself only I played GT to have a introduction to many car companies because of GT I found out about German and UK cars like Aston Martin and BMW, but I saw others like Opel(not German) that caught my eye too. I don't have to have a full library of every Nissan, Aston Martin, BMW, or whatever other car is made. All I want is to find out about others that's why I made the rant about how unbalanced the car list is.

Again if only having 100-500 cars gets us a better game give me the better game that's all I want.
 
I made a list of cars a long time back that I would like to see and I think that was 200 or less and it covered a whole range of historical, muscle, sports, super and hyper cars. Had some hot hatches and a list of concept cars from the past. My list had about 60 manufacturers. Also had a range of racing cars in mind too. So I would be very happy with 400 perfect premiums. The remaining spaces left by my list would be filled with others I overlooked so even with 400 there is room for a diverse and exciting range.

I definitely agree with quality over quantity and feel that the oversized car count is a marketing tool and maybe people would be excited about 1000 + if there were all individual and not duplicates/close variations. I would love Polyphony to start from scratch and leave all the previous work in the past. That's not to say I don't want content from the earlier games because I do, I just want them represented using the new technology.

When you look at the cars PD picked for its 400, I doubt that people would be satisfied at all. This is just about what's cool, nothing more.

Having more cars for those that don't mind how they look is a great thing. Screw the marketers, really, I can read between the lines well enough by now.
@Griffith500

I'm not even going to quote your last post. People like you that think I am some kind of self-appointed authority figure have me wrong. Look I've known of GT1 since the Pizza Demo from long ago still have that said demo. That was my first introduction to racing games outside of Ridge Racer.

I got my first start with GT3 hated it when I first got it was boring to me at the time, but as I grew up after that I began to appreciate what GT was it had a great blend of gameplay, fun, and even the graphics were top notch at the time.

These are the reasons I get onto PD/Kaz about the standards as I've known GT I use to tell friends that knew what it is was like ZOMG GT HAS THE BEST GRAPHICS etc etc.

With that said that's no longer the case which is why I'm highly upset with PD/Kaz for even saying Standards are here to stay because just like the rest of the game seems like to me the rest of world caught up, and is starting to pass him by, and that consistent quality I once knew has vanished.

Look if taking a pass on standards in GT7 gets GT back near the top I'm all for that because again all these standards are going to backfire in front of Kaz's face.

In fact why do you think it's backfired so far in regards to the sales figures because while working/slaving away with those standards-premium conversions seems like cared to much about that then the game itself.


I speak for myself only I played GT to have a introduction to many car companies because of GT I found out about German and UK cars like Aston Martin and BMW, but I saw others like Opel(not German) that caught my eye too. I don't have to have a full library of every Nissan, Aston Martin, BMW, or whatever other car is made. All I want is to find out about others that's why I made the rant about how unbalanced the car list is.

Again if only having 100-500 cars gets us a better game give me the better game that's all I want.
GT was never just about the graphics; that's your mistake. I don't get why GT has to be "near the top" anyway; such anxiety over something that doesn't really affect you, unless you have shares in Sony? Your interpretation of the "sales" (which we have no real figures for) is an example of confirmation bias.

Maybe you can move on now. But then you might not get to see some of the "unknown" (for you, it seems) cars that PD might put in in future; thanks to its large car roster, they can afford to. If they'd just put the cars in you wanted to be put in, you'd never know any different. GT enhances the cult status of cars, it creates legends (however slight) and it broadens peoples' palates when it comes to car taste.

I can't see any real reason that cutting this kind of content will result in a better game. That's just desperation and smacks of complete ignorance as to how games are actually made.
 
When you look at the cars PD picked for its 400, I doubt that people would be satisfied at all. This is just about what's cool, nothing more.

Having more cars for those that don't mind how they look is a great thing. Screw the marketers, really, I can read between the lines well enough by now.

GT was never just about the graphics; that's your mistake. I don't get why GT has to be "near the top" anyway; such anxiety over something that doesn't really affect you, unless you have shares in Sony? Your interpretation of the "sales" (which we have no real figures for) is an example of confirmation bias.

Maybe you can move on now. But then you might not get to see some of the "unknown" (for you, it seems) cars that PD might put in in future; thanks to its large car roster, they can afford to. If they'd just put the cars in you wanted to be put in, you'd never know any different. GT enhances the cult status of cars, it creates legends (however slight) and it broadens peoples' palates when it comes to car taste.

I can't see any real reason that cutting this kind of content will result in a better game. That's just desperation and smacks of complete ignorance as to how games are actually made.

You're kidding right GT is about the whole package graphics and gameplay bump what you heard, and you say GT doesn't need to be near the top well where does it need to be hmmm..?

Where do you think GT1-4 were AT THE TOP!

No it's easy to see GT peaked with GT4 there is no question about that GT5 is the calm before and fall, and GT6 well it's the fall there is no argument on that I guarantee that.

Oh btw I'm not moving on since you don't hear too well, but maybe it's you that needs to move on since your variety IS THE SAME CAR EVERY OTHER TILE!

As you say if they put in different cars I wouldn't notice I would they come out with official car list for GT hell it's on GTplanet if you'd look, but for you I still say if they erased 200 cars you wouldn't even know it that would be proven, and most on here wouldn't care.

The only thing GT can even stand on now is a larger car list SO 🤬 WHAT who cares THE GAME the actual VIDEO GAME isn't even there it's a museum of cars that's it an empty hall so to speak.

None of the cars are even truly represented in GT6 some have events for them, but majority just there to collect virtual dust, and wither away in someone's drawer for all I know.


Heck why am I talking to you the poll speaks for itself lol.
 
You're kidding right GT is about the whole package graphics and gameplay bump what you heard, and you say GT doesn't need to be near the top well where does it need to be hmmm..?

Where do you think GT1-4 were AT THE TOP!

No it's easy to see GT peaked with GT4 there is no question about that GT5 is the calm before and fall, and GT6 well it's the fall there is no argument on that I guarantee that.

Oh btw I'm not moving on since you don't hear too well, but maybe it's you that needs to move on since your variety IS THE SAME CAR EVERY OTHER TILE!

As you say if they put in different cars I wouldn't notice I would they come out with official car list for GT hell it's on GTplanet if you'd look, but for you I still say if they erased 200 cars you wouldn't even know it that would be proven, and most on here wouldn't care.

The only thing GT can even stand on now is a larger car list SO 🤬 WHAT who cares THE GAME the actual VIDEO GAME isn't even there it's a museum of cars that's it an empty hall so to speak.

None of the cars are even truly represented in GT6 some have events for them, but majority just there to collect virtual dust, and wither away in someone's drawer for all I know.


Heck why am I talking to you the poll speaks for itself lol.
You definitely did not play GT2, did you? You can't have been old enough, for starters.
 
-Two Generations of Mazda MX-5, two completely different cars. Also some of those models have different engines.
The reason they are duplicates is because of the relationship they have with the variations he didn't list there (the JDM Eunos/Mazda Roadsters).
 
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You definitely did not play GT2, did you? You can't have been old enough, for starters.

Dude I'm 24 didn't play GT1 or GT2 will admit, but knew of their greatness through this site and others. Was 12 when I got GT3 for Christmas 2002 on PS2 when I first got a PS2 DID YOU NOT READ THE POST WHERE I CLEARLY STATED I PLAYED A DEMO OF GT1 AND DID NOT GET STARTED UNTIL GT3!

Which you pretty much proves you're not reading the post.

Trust me I've known what Gran Turismo is for a very long time maybe I'm not 30, but I've known of GT since I was 8 years old
 
I honestly don't care about the quality< quantity thing and vice versa. Kaz said that standards will still be in for GT7. I don't mind the standards, personally, but I don't use them often. The only Standards I have in my GT6 garage are the Standards that have been used in WRS events (but I don't ever participate in the events), and the GSX R/4 because it was virtually the only car to get gold on some seasonal event, I can't remember which, it's discontinued. And, there aren't 1000 Standard cars. My guess for GT7 premiums is somewhere between 450-500 cars. We've got some standard/premium conversions for GT6 and we'll get more S to P cars for GT7.
 
Dude I'm 24 didn't play GT1 or GT2 will admit, but knew of their greatness through this site and others. Was 12 when I got GT3 for Christmas 2002 on PS2 when I first got a PS2 DID YOU NOT READ THE POST WHERE I CLEARLY STATED I PLAYED A DEMO OF GT1 AND DID NOT GET STARTED UNTIL GT3!

Which you pretty much proves you're not reading the post.
I admit I got bored of reading the same post over and over, since you couldn't actually address my questions - probably because you subconsciously deliberately misread them so as to be able to bore us with your bigoted viewpoint again.

I'm very amused that you think the poll says anything, though.
 
I admit I got bored of reading the same post over and over, since you couldn't actually address my questions - probably because you subconsciously deliberately misread them so as to be able to bore us with your bigoted viewpoint again.

I'm very amused that you think the poll says anything, though.

Trust me the feeling is mutual in return you're not that intelligent anyway to understand what you've posted.

I'm amused that you never read any of the posts I've posted, but it's cool people like you with backwards thinking are what is keeping GT complacent while other racing games are or have blown right past it.

With your drivel saying "Go play another racing game" Keep saying that and soon people will :banghead:

Btw these polls give us at least a picture of how some people sway on opinions genius.

I mean doesn't take long to realize most don't want standards, and people wanting quality > quantity
 
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Upgrade the standards PD, and get rid of them if they're not upgraded. They're seriously going to put PS2 level cars on the PS4???? I for one won't support it.
 
And this is precisely the point. Different game, different draw. Buy it, play and enjoy it, if that's your thing. That's what it's there for. If GT is not enjoyable for you, don't buy it; certainly don't try to make it more like something that's already available to buy! GT has its own path to take. :)
The elements that make GT different like huge car selection, quirky cars, a focus on ordinary street cars from a broad range of eras, stellar graphics, the best lighting engine etc. etc. etc. will not somehow be degraded by incorporating the elements of other games that make them attractive and fun. Every other game has scalable AI in their career mode so somehow we must keep the crappy AI in the GT series so it can take it's own path? Adding a scale where the bottom of the scale is the current AI and the top of the scale is challenging and competitive for those that want it somehow will detract from the series? I don't see it.
 
Trust me the feeling is mutual in return you're not that intelligent anyway to understand what you've posted.

I'm amused that you never read any of the posts I've posted, but it's cool people like you with backwards thinking are what is keeping GT complacent while other racing games are or have blown right past it.

With your drivel saying "Go play another racing game" Keep saying that and soon people will :banghead:

Btw these polls give us at least a picture of how some people sway on opinions genius.

I mean doesn't take long to realize most don't want standards, and people wanting quality > quantity

Such hypocrisy. Much amaze.

The poll says nothing of use, except to bigots.

How is that last sentence not "self-appointment of authority", though, really? I can't believe you have the cheek to accuse me of lacking in reading comprehension, when you have no idea what you're writing yourself.

And there's that anxiety again. So what if people play another game? Why shouldn't they have fun?

The elements that make GT different like huge car selection, quirky cars, a focus on ordinary street cars from a broad range of eras, stellar graphics, the best lighting engine etc. etc. etc. will not somehow be degraded by incorporating the elements of other games that make them attractive and fun. Every other game has scalable AI in their career mode so somehow we must keep the crappy AI in the GT series so it can take it's own path? Adding a scale where the bottom of the scale is the current AI and the top of the scale is challenging and competitive for those that want it somehow will detract from the series? I don't see it.
That's not really what I said.

Scalable AI is not a feature in itself, it's parameters for a feature (AI) exposed to the user. The AI is already scalable; it scales in the events and in Arcade mode, we just don't have (enough) control over it in the right places. Many games only have one difficulty level, though, right or wrong.

Options are always welcome, because then it's easier to make the game more to your liking - it won't matter how diverse the marketplace becomes, because practically speaking there still won't be that perfect game for every individual, certainly not straight out of the box.

If GT's path should take it where user-adjustable AI is included, then rejoice (and I shall rejoice with you). Otherwise, you can still play other games that do allow for closer racing (relative to your skill level), if that's what's important to you. This is not some spiteful "if you don't like it, then 🤬 off" type retort, this is simple pragmatism. In an ideal world, GT would offer that capability, and would of course be better-off for it. Much as, in an ideal world, all the cars would be Premium and we'd have every car to appear in the series, plus everything from the wishlist. It's a matter of practicality, again.

The push for homogeneity in products discourages other developers from entering the market, because there's simply too much pressure to achieve top marks in every aspect. That is inherently bad. We should be allowing games to be what they are and allowing players to enjoy them for what they are, just like it used to be. This will not stifle development through a perceived lack of competition, in that "it doesn't matter what you make because someone will buy it" sense, only encourage it through the freedom of experimentation and innovation thanks to unconstrained creativity (by not having to conform to the homogeneous mandate). Just like it used to be. It's even easier now in this well-connected world (well, part of it), to find your market, so there should be less of an excuse not to diversify.

Then maybe the message will filter through to marketing types and production directors that there's more than one kind of cool, that different people like different things, and that's actually potentially really lucrative. Then maybe marketing will become more transparent. Yeah, I know hippie utopic fantasy, but I can dream! :dopey:


This is borderline off-topic, though the Standards and the huge car count are examples of areas where GT is quite substantially far from the mean - the key thing to take away is that some people like that. Those people deserve games, too.

Additionally, I think there is an argument to be had as to whether something like scalable AI is really analogous to the Standards issue when it comes to taste / preference (of experience, aesthetics etc.) in games. Options would "fix" both, but that doesn't tell us very much.
 
Doing this for Griffith500 so he can understand


  1. S Honda NSX '93
  2. S Honda NSX '95
  3. S Honda NSX '97
  4. S Honda NSX '99
  5. S Honda NSX '01
  6. S Honda NSX Type R '92
  7. P/S Honda NSX Type R '02
  8. S Honda NSX Type S '97
  9. S Honda NSX Type S '99
  10. S Honda NSX Type S '01
  11. S Honda NSX Type S Zero '97
  12. S Honda NSX Type S Zero '99
  13. S Honda NSX-R Concept '01
  14. S Honda NSX-R Prototype LM Race Car
  15. S Honda NSX-R Prototype LM Road Car
  1. S Honda S2000 '99
  2. S Honda S2000 '01
  3. S Honda S2000 '03
  4. P Honda S2000 '06
  5. S Honda S2000 (EU) '99
  6. S Honda S2000 (EU) '01
  7. S Honda S2000 (EU) '03
  8. S Honda S2000 (US) '99
  9. S Honda S2000 (US) '01
  10. S Honda S2000 (US) '04
  11. S Honda S2000 LM Race Car
  12. S Honda S2000 Type V '00
  13. S Honda S2000 Type V '01
  14. S Honda S2000 Type V '03
  15. S Honda S2000 Type V (EU) '00
  16. S Honda S2000 Type V (EU) '01
  17. S Honda S2000 Type V (US) '00
  18. S Honda S2000 Type V (US) '01
  19. S Honda TAKATA DOME NSX (JGTC) '03
  20. P Honda TAKATA DOME NSX (SUPER GT) '06
  1. S Mazda MX-5 1.8 RS (NB, J) '98
  2. S Mazda MX-5 1600 NR-A (NB, J) '04
  3. S Mazda MX-5 1800 RS (NB, J) '00
  4. S Mazda MX-5 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
  5. S Mazda MX-5 J-Limited (NA, J) '91
  6. S Mazda MX-5 J-Limited II (NA, J) '93
  7. S Mazda MX-5 Miata (NA) '89
  8. S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1.8 RS (NB, J) '98
  9. S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1600 NR-A (NB, J) '04
  10. S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '00
  11. S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
  12. S Mazda MX-5 Miata J-Limited (NA, J) '91
  13. S Mazda MX-5 Miata J-Limited II (NA, J) '93
  14. S Mazda MX-5 Miata SR-Limited (NA, J) '97
  15. S Mazda MX-5 Miata S-Special Type I (NA, J) '95
  16. S Mazda MX-5 Miata VR-Limited (NA, J) '95
  17. S Mazda MX-5 Miata V-Special Type II (NA, J) '93
  18. S Mazda MX-5 SR-Limited (NA, J) '97
  19. S Mazda MX-5 S-Special Type I (NA, J) '95
  20. S Mazda MX-5 VR-Limited (NA, J) '95
  21. S Mazda MX-5 V-Special Type II (NA, J) '93
I'm putting this up for Griffith500 because I want you to see the variety. Sadly if this list is correct this isn't even the full list, but some 60 cars are dupes from out of Japan with Mazda and Honda haven't even touched on every car in that particular region so no Toyota or Nissan or even Mitsubishi which means that number could rise to upwards guesstimating that 300 cars could end up being dupes in some form or fashion.

This is why the car balance and the car list is so out of whack.

you forgot the mazda's RX7 and Fd's etc.
also the nissan's

But now this: lately i'm feeling i'm having deja vu after deja vu.:eek:
It's like a lot of donuts but in a diffrent coating.
Just like the standard cars are different but the same, so are these topics.💡
All different, but also the same.

And i wil repeat what already is written.;)
Kaz....Polyphony will not change that much as you would like.

But i hate one thing very much.
Just noticed it a few weeks ago.
Why, in heavens name, are the fiat 500 new type's ( also the abarth ), only right hand drive??:confused:
O yes, It's a japanese company that creates the game..:odd:

And as far as i know, all topics in the Q&A kaz section, are not really answered.
These questions are mostly -> :banghead: ( bumping into a wall over and over again)
Just a few are "answered" and that was just lucky in a update.
 
Such hypocrisy. Much amaze.

The poll says nothing of use, except to bigots.

How is that last sentence not "self-appointment of authority", though, really? I can't believe you have the cheek to accuse me of lacking in reading comprehension, when you have no idea what you're writing yourself.

And there's that anxiety again. So what if people play another game? Why shouldn't they have fun?

So everyone is a bigot if they don't like Gran Turismo and it's 1200 magical cars plus we're also bigots if we don't kiss Kaz 🤬 and wipe it for him got it.

Honestly dude you have no idea what you're speaking or writing you want to stay complacent is all I hear, and polls still mean something they aren't complete picture, but a glimpse of one.
 
I did not vote, as i did not vote in those other polls.
Sales for GT6 did drop big time compairing it to Gt5.
But then again, lot of people switched to next gen consoles.
And i think/hope polyphony and Sony wake up one time or another.

I don't really care about the standards being so multiple.
It happened, and will happen again if PD and sony stay up in their marketing bubble.

I miss some standards they removed. Like the jensen interceptor, i really liked that car in GT5.


And now i'm thinking: "why do I repeat myself again?"

Thank god, the PS4 is €399 and i'm not willing to buy that for that price yet.
 

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