Racecraft mentor program

[smskeeter23]

Mods: I'm sorry as this should probably be in the online racing section but I wanted to get maximum visibility for this topic.

I am trying to gauge interest in a racecraft mentoring/school sort of scenario from both people looking for a teacher and those willing to teach.

I believe proper racecraft is the single largest problem and division in online racing. Too many people act like they are racing AI on the track and part of the problem may be that they don't have a proper arena in which to learn. Lets face it GT AI is NOT EVER going to teach you how to race properly.

Racecraft in it's true sense is a mental ability that can be learned by anyone. It can be aquired regardless of actual driving skill, tuning, etc. It's about positioning and reading the situation.

I am going to put myself in a category of possibly being able to teach very low experience drivers but wanting to learn from more experienced drivers.

So my question to all of you as a community is, are there people willing to teach, and people willing to be taught?

 

[Chrunch Houston]

I, and many of the people I race with, love helping to mentor new racers. In GT5 it was easy to see what level the driver was. Sadly that is missing from GT6.

But, it was way too common to see level 40 A-spec drivers that drove like crap online

I try not to kick new/poor racers. I am much more likely to kick a good driver that crashes people, than a bad-likely-new racer that crashes people.

 

[VBR]

@smskeeter23 - There was a GT Planet Racing School for GT5, maybe you could get some of those guys involved again. The original thread is here.


👍

 

[FussyFez]

I love this idea, again, it's a shame I don't have online.

Good luck:tup:

 

[Cobra_GT500]

I'd be down for this. I have played a lot of gt back in the day not really online but I would like to start in with these online tournaments. I've been breezing through the Career mode it does get boring as the AI is no match so to make things fun I have to practice my lap times. But bare in mind I have been using the defaults settings.

 

[hasslemoff]

There was also the WRS Online Academy/ D league in GT5.

This is due to start again very soon for GT6 with some really help full instructurs, you do need to be on the WRS registry but you dont need a GTP tag now for GT6, so you can use your own PSN name.

 

[Wardenclyffe]

You couldn't vote for both, so I didn't vote. Like Skeeter, I could probably teach entry-level drivers and I'm very interested in learning from more experienced racers.

 

[86Debris86]

I'm always willing to learn new things. All I know about proper race-craft is from watching Touring Cars and F1 (as well as rally-cross but I don't think that's as relevent).

I know that getting past someone ideally shouldn't slow either one down and about not squeezing someone off the track- general courtesy really- but I'd be interested to hear some of the finer points on the matter.

Nice thread. 👍

 

[NixxxoN]

I would be gladly a driving/racing teacher, in fact I was thinking about opening a thread about it.
Thing is, would I do it for free? Dont think so, because I dont have so much free time and stuff like this is not very encouraging if you get nothing in exchange... but for a little money? Yes
Not wanting to sound arrogant but I think i'm a good driver and I think I could teach a lot of things to lower level players.

 

[smskeeter23]

I'm always willing to learn new things. All I know about proper race-craft is from watching Touring Cars and F1 (as well as rally-cross but I don't think that's as relevent).

I know that getting past someone ideally shouldn't slow either one down and about not squeezing someone off the track- general courtesy really- but I'd be interested to hear some of the finer points on the matter.

Nice thread. 👍

Ironically I was watching some in car VLN footage from the ring on YT last night when I thought of this. Mainly from watching and paying attention to the drivers changing braking points and line selections based on current condition. I kept thinking "ok that's what I would do here, and here, and there. Man I wish more online players drove like this." Personally I think if you pay attention close enough there are some good things to be learned watching in car footage.

@hasslemoff that's great news I was hoping something would start up. I'm on the registry for GT5 but haven't gotten around to submitting my replays for GT6 yet. I should really upload those today I suppose, dont know what I'm waiting for, just being lazy.

My main goal is to make absolutely sure that I am doing things correctly according to the OLR and well enough before I start in WRS series and potentially screw up other peoples race(s). Eager to see when this starts up 👍

 

[86Debris86]

Personally I think if you pay attention close enough there are some good things to be learned watching in car footage.

Bad things too. Plenty of times I've learned what not to do as well. I'm looking at you Mr Maldonado!

 

[NixxxoN]

Bad things too. Plenty of times I've learned what not to do as well. I'm looking at you Mr Maldonado!

View attachment 131907

He won a race for Williams. He must not be that bad

 

[86Debris86]

He won a race for Williams. He must not be that bad

And he was very good in lower formula too. But the fact remains he has made some very questionable moves over his F1 career. Some good ones too I'll admit but he isn't in F1 because of his unadulterated talent is he?

I'm just saying not everything you see drivers doing on t.v. is acceptable race behaviour and so we should be careful what we do decide to learn from that. I just picked Pastor because he's an easy target.

 

[smskeeter23]

I'm just saying not everything you see drivers doing on t.v. is acceptable race behaviour and so we should be careful what we do decide to learn from that.

This is true although I think most people looking to learn "proper" racecraft will also be able to understand what is an unsportsmanlike or dangerous move.

 

[JogoAsobi]

@ OP, I think its a great idea if you have the time.

Youtube also has a few goodies like:

skip barber going faster



Drive's How To Drive Your Tires To Go Fast



There is also the iRacing Driving School series.

 

[ShiftingGears]

My best advice is that a lot of racecraft is thinking about what you would do in your competitor's situation. Next time you get passed by someone after making a mistake, think about how what you did as a driver enabled someone behind you to get past, and also think about what the player who just passed you did to cleanly pass you.

Once you have that knowledge you can start pulling those passing moves on other players, and you'll be able to read the situations in advance because you were once put in them. Pace helps as well, so hotlapping and racing your own ghost is what I would recommend if you are not fast enough to go wheel-to-wheel with others online.

 

[rosckolove]

I think this is a good idea. I wish they implemented something like this in the game. Like you have to pass racecraft and etiquette school before you can access online. Opposed to the stupid licenses. But another problem I see even from racers with the best racecraft is just low awareness. No matter how proper your racing mentality is it all goes out the window if you have crappy awareness and sense of car placement. I got in an argument the other day with an exceptionally clean racer. After the race he accused me of being a little pushy saying that I pushed him wide in order to get by him. When in reality his low awareness caused him to not realize my car was already up to his front quarter panel (on the inside) and he turned in to soon and bounced off my car sending him wide. I was already cutting the corner (legally) and taking a very tight line to avoid contact.

 

[86Debris86]

I think this is a good idea. I wish they implemented something like this in the game. Like you have to pass racecraft and etiquette school before you can access online.

Nice idea. I like it. 👍

But another problem I see even from racers with the best racecraft is just low awareness. No matter how proper your racing mentality is it all goes out the window if you have crappy awareness and sense of car placement. I got in an argument the other day with an exceptionally clean racer. After the race he accused me of being a little pushy saying that I pushed him wide in order to get by him. When in reality his low awareness caused him to not realize my car was already up to his front quarter panel (on the inside) and he turned in to soon and bounced off my car sending him wide. I was already cutting the corner (legally) and taking a very tight line to avoid contact.

Perhaps the camera people use comes into play here. Especially if they don't have blind spot indicator on.

Maybe this guy was using bumper cam and couldn't see you until you were just in front. I'm just speculating here, not excusing him.

 

[rosckolove]

Nice idea. I like it. 👍


Perhaps the camera people use comes into play here. Especially if they don't have blind spot indicator on.

Maybe this guy was using bumper cam and couldn't see you until you were just in front. I'm just speculating here, not excusing him.

No no no its fine and your right in saying so. I agree the the camera view has a lot to do with it. But since I got a wheel I have switched from chase cam to bumper cam and I have never had this problem. I make good use of the mirror, Rear view and side view functions. I just put great importance on knowing where and what others are doing. Some people just aren't capable of racing and also paying attention to others car placement and possible intentions at the same time. Something that will always hinder the idea of good racecraft.

 

[86Debris86]

Some people just aren't capable of racing and also paying attention to others car placement and possible intentions at the same time. Something that will always hinder the idea of good racecraft.

Well hopefully some of those people see threads like this. Everyone is capable to a greater or lesser extent, it's whether or not they're happy to learn or at least accept how others would like to race.

Some people are perfectly happy having what I would call "GTA Races," for lack of a better term; knocking into eachother all for the sake of position and taking eachother out. Fair play to them I say. Not my kind of thing but whatever floats your boat. As a result though these people are unlikely to help the growth of race etiquette online.

Best to build a friends list of like-minded racers and keep out of public lobbies as much as possible I think. Helps avoid the "It was your fault I crashed!" arguments.

 

[Spurgy 777]

This is a nice idea, and I wouldn't mind helping when I can, gives me something to do on GT6 here's some things I think are important to racecraft, don't know if any are teachable, but its at least something to think about when practicing.

Spacial awareness,
Visualising what you can't see, e.g. other drivers and different lines that you might have to take when overtaking/defending,
Knowing how to adjust your speed for different lines on the go,
Reading drivers infront of you and predict when/where gaps might appear,
Knowing where to put yourself to take advantage of those gaps,
Generally planning ahead, e.g. setting up overtakes the corner before,
Knowing here to position your car to make it as difficult as possible for the driver behind to overtake, whilst losing as little time as possible to whoever's infront,
And one of my favourites for racing in a pack, knowing where to put your car to make the people behind you start to battle so that you can get away (unless you're at Monza, in which case, damn you GT slipstream! @raceorama123432),
And then learning how to combine all of the above (and possibly more I can't think of right now).

Also worth noting, having good racecraft is much easier when you have good car control, so might be worth teaching that as well if necessary.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I am huge advocate of more gentlemanly racing online. Before I read VBR's - The Good Racecraft Guide that was pretty much my philophy when racing, even in open lobbies with strangers. I also try to follow the GTPlanet Online Racing (OLR) Rules & Guidelines again, in both series and open lobbies. If everyone followed both of these guidelines to the best of their abilities, online racing would improve 1000% IMO.

Before GT6 launched I had planned on creating a series of videos encompassing the lessons from both of the guides above, but I've been generally disappointed in the game and the online portion of the game is still rather archaic and not real conducive to clubs and leagues without that feature of the game included as of yet. When I ran DeadNutsEven Racing Club I resorted to photo collages like this as part of the DeadNutsEven Classroom Training: Leaving a Gap and When not to Pass!

In short, yes I'm a big believer that online racing is only fun when it is clean and respectful above all else and if we don't lead the way, who will?

 

[Tier 2 Racing]

I would be gladly a driving/racing teacher, in fact I was thinking about opening a thread about it.
Thing is, would I do it for free? Dont think so, because I dont have so much free time and stuff like this is not very encouraging if you get nothing in exchange... but for a little money? Yes
Not wanting to sound arrogant but I think i'm a good driver and I think I could teach a lot of things to lower level players.

No thanks.

Mods: I'm sorry as this should probably be in the online racing section but I wanted to get maximum visibility for this topic.

I am trying to gauge interest in a racecraft mentoring/school sort of scenario from both people looking for a teacher and those willing to teach.

I believe proper racecraft is the single largest problem and division in online racing. Too many people act like they are racing AI on the track and part of the problem may be that they don't have a proper arena in which to learn. Lets face it GT AI is NOT EVER going to teach you how to race properly.

Racecraft in it's true sense is a mental ability that can be learned by anyone. It can be aquired regardless of actual driving skill, tuning, etc. It's about positioning and reading the situation.

I am going to put myself in a category of possibly being able to teach very low experience drivers but wanting to learn from more experienced drivers.

So my question to all of you as a community is, are there people willing to teach, and people willing to be taught?

Something like this could have a lot of potential. It can even be ran just like a real track day. Very cool idea should the right approach/teachers be involved.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I would be gladly a driving/racing teacher, in fact I was thinking about opening a thread about it.
Thing is, would I do it for free? Dont think so, because I dont have so much free time and stuff like this is not very encouraging if you get nothing in exchange... but for a little money? Yes
Not wanting to sound arrogant but I think i'm a good driver and I think I could teach a lot of things to lower level players.

Just noticed this.....don't quit your day job

 

[squadops]

... I just put great importance on knowing where and what others are doing. Some people just aren't capable of racing and also paying attention to others car placement and possible intentions at the same time. Something that will always hinder the idea of good racecraft.

Some could learn a great deal from a fellow going by the name of @JvM on this board, talk about track awareness

 

[PIP_36]

Here's some free advice that I learned from the California Superbike school when my friend and I attended at Silverstone a few years ago...

There are three lines on a race track, the qualifying line, the racing line and the defensive line. The trick is to know which line you should be using and when. Of course, situations in the race will dictate which line you take but they are a good starting points.

There is also the number one rule...to finish first, first you have to finish!

 

[Chrunch Houston]

I am huge advocate of more gentlemanly racing online. Before I read VBR's - The Good Racecraft Guide that was pretty much my philophy when racing, even in open lobbies with strangers. I also try to follow the GTPlanet Online Racing (OLR) Rules & Guidelines again, in both series and open lobbies. If everyone followed both of these guidelines to the best of their abilities, online racing would improve 1000% IMO.

I have read those, but I see little chance of making everyone read them, much less follow them.

Racing is all about respect.

I don’t actively block someone that is about to overtake me, and I don’t expect to be blocked either.

If someone crashes past me, I am not above knocking them off the track when I catch back up. Road rage happens.

The people in my room respect one another, when new people join, we will respect them, but we expect the same. If the stranger is disrespectful the regulars are pretty vocal. I am talking about fast strangers only, not newbies.

I miss the level system from GT5. We had people with low 20s or even teen A-spec levels join, they had a good time and kept coming back, and while they weren't great, they tried.

Crashing into a crotchety 50 year old man, does not come with out consequences. So they learned. Some still race with us to this day, and have matured into very good, safe drivers.

 

[ShiftingGears]

There should be online statistics readily available for online players. A wins/losses statistic for example would give some idea of skill levels, and it would be an improvement because any muppet could've reached Level 40 by grinding offline in GT5.

 

[sagaper]

A great idea. I have been afraid of trying online racing. Since I don't want to embrace myself, And the one time I tried I was kicked out. It will be fine to learn the "rules" for online racing. I will have a lot to learn, from a mentor program.

 

[raceorama123432]

(unless you're at Monza, in which case, damn you GT slipstream! @raceorama123432)

Slip stream OP @Spurgy 777

If I had the time right now, driver tutoring would be good for me. I'm not slow, it just I need that little bit more. I can't seem to find it in myself so maybe someone who has got that pace could help me? I don't know. Just don't have the time at the moment.

My advice to anyone. This is a game, but I wouldn't really try to make a move that you wouldn't IRL. It usually leads to less penalties and better battles/overtaking manoeuvres, not just D-bombs