Racers Reunited. It's over! RR GT6 is no more. Tuesday's will now be for GTS (Maybe PC2 some times)
- Thread starter Zolon32
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- Banbaria.
- GTP_Venari
Kerfuffle means people have to buy a zillion cars. It certainly works, but it's a ballache to set up.
q.v. Kerfuffle (w.r.t. Gran Turismo) A race system us UKGTPers invented that works like GT5's internal 'shuffle' system, but is more consistent as it relies on empirical testing and a fairly complex spreadsheet to manage it. Good racing - annoying administration and setup.
q.v. Kerfuffle (w.r.t. Gran Turismo) A race system us UKGTPers invented that works like GT5's internal 'shuffle' system, but is more consistent as it relies on empirical testing and a fairly complex spreadsheet to manage it. Good racing - annoying administration and setup.
- 87,204
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- GTP_Famine
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- GTP_Venari
Snowballin' also suffers with absences. It's tricky for people to jump in and out of. You'd just have to (almost) arbitrarily set a limit. (Actually, you'd figure where the person ranked in the PP range from their last race, and rank them accordingly in the current PP range.)
Also... nothing stopping you setting up a Kerfuffle thread in the OLR forum - you can use the GTPlanet lobby. If you can fix the random jumping in/out issue, you will probably get a lot of takers. But no-one would know how to run it unless you published the spreadsheet (or made it a Google sheet, or something) so you'd always have to be hosting it.
I'll be doing the same if there's interest. I'm waiting for Zo to come back to see if he wants a break for Tuesdays, or I'll set up on a different day if he has a new idea to try,
Also... nothing stopping you setting up a Kerfuffle thread in the OLR forum - you can use the GTPlanet lobby. If you can fix the random jumping in/out issue, you will probably get a lot of takers. But no-one would know how to run it unless you published the spreadsheet (or made it a Google sheet, or something) so you'd always have to be hosting it.
I'll be doing the same if there's interest. I'm waiting for Zo to come back to see if he wants a break for Tuesdays, or I'll set up on a different day if he has a new idea to try,
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- GTP_Famine
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/famines-shuffle-racing-alternative.307747/
If there's interest in it, I'll contemplate it. I've never tested it with a broader spread of abilities - UKGTPers are all able to win a race in similar machinery so we tend to end up in similar cars - but in theory it could have eight of us crossing the line within a few seconds once it gets its eye in.
ERAUfan97
(Banned)
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- ERAUfan97
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- IfAndOr
There's @Zolon32 thinking that GT6 was struggling and here's all these new ideas popping up. He might not need to row as hard as he thinks.
He's sure got a fair bit of catching up to do on his return.
The Aston Vantage was also mentioned (they were at similar times). I'm not sure what people may have practised with so it might be best to bring both, if you can afford it of course.
He's sure got a fair bit of catching up to do on his return.
Yes Jocke, there's been no further ideas so we'll run with it for this week. It's my usual - if I can make it I'll run it.
The Aston Vantage was also mentioned (they were at similar times). I'm not sure what people may have practised with so it might be best to bring both, if you can afford it of course.
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My kinda car.
OK then folks just confirming for tomorrow (1st August!) it'll be the Aston V12 Vantage on SH tyres around Hammer Hill. And if you want to try a slightly wilder option have a go in the Shelby Cobra chromeline on SM tyres.
If we can fit them in there will three 15 minute races as normal.
>>EDIT: Because it's a one off fun event on a new track to save "messing about" with the power slider this week leave it on 100%. I'll use light boost just for this meeting and let the game keep the pack together - hopefully.
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- GTP_Famine
So, a quick explanation of Kerfuffle, with pictures.
tl;dr: It looks incredibly complicated, because it is - but in practice it just needs one administrator to put in the race results and every driver driving the car the administrator tells them to drive.
First, we created a list of 30 cars that were roughly 0.5% slower than the previous car - so the fastest one is 15% faster than the slowest one. We did this with lots of testing. If you're interested, the list is:
That list costs 2.2m credits to buy, along with some additional to apply SH tyres to those than don't have them, and then oil and paint. Any similar list will work just as well - and there's no reason why it couldn't simply be a list of the same car but at 85-100% power limiter. Or any other handicapping system.
Anyway, it's all managed by a spreadsheet. It refers to that car list, as well as movement formulae that take account of both the driver's most recent race and their overall position in the championship. Again, you can change the formulae and how the championship is calculated if you wish, but by default it's all in hidden cells.
You then have a sheet that looks like this - I have different sheets for 3-16 drivers, but this is the 8 man version:
All you need to do is put the driver names into the first 8 driver cells - the sheet puts the rest in automatically.
In this example, all drivers are starting off in the Focus ST. There's no particular reason for that, it's just the middle car. You could do the race as it is, or if you already have an idea of relative speed you could put drivers into the appropriate cars by changing the car rank - Car Rank 1 is the slowest car, Car Rank 30 is the fastest. So let's put the names in and put them into different cars:
(some names have been changed to protect the innocent; also, if abilities are broadly equal, never start people off in such a wide spread of cars, as it will take around 6-8 races to tune out the advantage/disadvantage)
Race 1 happens and the people in the fast cars destroy the people in the slow cars. Let's input the results:
Bam. As soon as the last result is put in, the sheet calculates the next cars. It also adds the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place finishers to a tiebreak box.
All you need to do is fill the race finishing positions in and the sheet does everything else. It even balances sandbagging, strangely. It's also keyed to make sure no-one drives the same car for two successive races, although it's likely that the closer you are to average for any given group of drivers, you'll drive the same two or three cars a lot - but even then, results elsewhere may move you, because it doesn't just depend on your own performance. It's almost impossible to end up naturally in cars 1, 2, 29 and 30 - I've never seen it happen and it would take several very weird results, but you never know.
Anyway, let's fill in some more results:
Ta-daa.
I didn't actually engineer those numbers either. I put in results to assumed abilities of my anonymous drivers, with odd ones to account for things like crashes, tracks people don't like/really like and such, and ended up with a 5pt spread - and Vendredi winning it on countback with an extra second place... Actual UKGTP results are similar.
By around race 4 of a Kerfuffle, 75% of the field will be running together for 75% of the race. Some tracks can affect it a bit - the Shelby is no good on straights and the Elise gets swamped unless there's bends - but by and large, that's that. And there's a track generator too, in the bottom left.
For subsequent weeks, just start a new sheet for the right number of people, put the repeat drivers in the next car they'd have ended up in next and any newbies in a car appropriate to their perceived speed and off you go again.
tl;dr: It looks incredibly complicated, because it is - but in practice it just needs one administrator to put in the race results and every driver driving the car the administrator tells them to drive.
Also, here's a Kerfuffle race from GT5!
tl;dr: It looks incredibly complicated, because it is - but in practice it just needs one administrator to put in the race results and every driver driving the car the administrator tells them to drive.
First, we created a list of 30 cars that were roughly 0.5% slower than the previous car - so the fastest one is 15% faster than the slowest one. We did this with lots of testing. If you're interested, the list is:
Lotus Europa S.2 '68
Honda FIT RS '10
BMW 507 '57
Mazda DEMIO SPORT '10
Abarth 500 '09
Alfa Romeo MiTo 1.4 T Sport '09
Peugeot RCZ '10
Chevrolet Corvette Coupe (C2) '63
MINI Countryman Cooper S '11
Pontiac Firebird Trans Am '78
Renault Sport Clio R.S. '11
Land Rover Range Rover Evoque Coupe Dynamic '13
Chevrolet Nova SS '70
Tesla Model S Signature '12
Ford Focus ST '13
VW Golf R '10
Subaru BR-Z S '12
Shelby GT350 '65
Ferrari Dino 246 GT '71
Lotus Elise '11
VW Scirocco R '10
SRT Charger SRT8 '11
Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track '13
BMW Z4 M Coupe
BMW Z8 '01
Ford Mustang Boss 302 '13
Subaru IMPREZA WRX STI spec C '09
Lamborghini Countach 25th Anniversary '88
BMW M4 Coupe '13
Ferrari 365 GTB4 '71
Honda FIT RS '10
BMW 507 '57
Mazda DEMIO SPORT '10
Abarth 500 '09
Alfa Romeo MiTo 1.4 T Sport '09
Peugeot RCZ '10
Chevrolet Corvette Coupe (C2) '63
MINI Countryman Cooper S '11
Pontiac Firebird Trans Am '78
Renault Sport Clio R.S. '11
Land Rover Range Rover Evoque Coupe Dynamic '13
Chevrolet Nova SS '70
Tesla Model S Signature '12
Ford Focus ST '13
VW Golf R '10
Subaru BR-Z S '12
Shelby GT350 '65
Ferrari Dino 246 GT '71
Lotus Elise '11
VW Scirocco R '10
SRT Charger SRT8 '11
Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track '13
BMW Z4 M Coupe
BMW Z8 '01
Ford Mustang Boss 302 '13
Subaru IMPREZA WRX STI spec C '09
Lamborghini Countach 25th Anniversary '88
BMW M4 Coupe '13
Ferrari 365 GTB4 '71
Anyway, it's all managed by a spreadsheet. It refers to that car list, as well as movement formulae that take account of both the driver's most recent race and their overall position in the championship. Again, you can change the formulae and how the championship is calculated if you wish, but by default it's all in hidden cells.
You then have a sheet that looks like this - I have different sheets for 3-16 drivers, but this is the 8 man version:
All you need to do is put the driver names into the first 8 driver cells - the sheet puts the rest in automatically.
In this example, all drivers are starting off in the Focus ST. There's no particular reason for that, it's just the middle car. You could do the race as it is, or if you already have an idea of relative speed you could put drivers into the appropriate cars by changing the car rank - Car Rank 1 is the slowest car, Car Rank 30 is the fastest. So let's put the names in and put them into different cars:
(some names have been changed to protect the innocent; also, if abilities are broadly equal, never start people off in such a wide spread of cars, as it will take around 6-8 races to tune out the advantage/disadvantage)
Race 1 happens and the people in the fast cars destroy the people in the slow cars. Let's input the results:
Bam. As soon as the last result is put in, the sheet calculates the next cars. It also adds the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place finishers to a tiebreak box.
All you need to do is fill the race finishing positions in and the sheet does everything else. It even balances sandbagging, strangely. It's also keyed to make sure no-one drives the same car for two successive races, although it's likely that the closer you are to average for any given group of drivers, you'll drive the same two or three cars a lot - but even then, results elsewhere may move you, because it doesn't just depend on your own performance. It's almost impossible to end up naturally in cars 1, 2, 29 and 30 - I've never seen it happen and it would take several very weird results, but you never know.
Anyway, let's fill in some more results:
Ta-daa.
I didn't actually engineer those numbers either. I put in results to assumed abilities of my anonymous drivers, with odd ones to account for things like crashes, tracks people don't like/really like and such, and ended up with a 5pt spread - and Vendredi winning it on countback with an extra second place... Actual UKGTP results are similar.
By around race 4 of a Kerfuffle, 75% of the field will be running together for 75% of the race. Some tracks can affect it a bit - the Shelby is no good on straights and the Elise gets swamped unless there's bends - but by and large, that's that. And there's a track generator too, in the bottom left.
For subsequent weeks, just start a new sheet for the right number of people, put the repeat drivers in the next car they'd have ended up in next and any newbies in a car appropriate to their perceived speed and off you go again.
tl;dr: It looks incredibly complicated, because it is - but in practice it just needs one administrator to put in the race results and every driver driving the car the administrator tells them to drive.
Also, here's a Kerfuffle race from GT5!
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- IfAndOr
Zo's got even more to read!
Who needs GTsport's matchmaking when you've got Fuffleballin' ©
Splendid stuff @Famine, you and @Venari both in fact. There's a lot of work you're both putting in. 👍
That's quite an interesting spread of cars with kerfuffle.
Again I don't know what plans Zo has in mind but he's got to be interested in your ideas I would think.
I'd certainly be up for trying both systems, maybe on different days of the week.
That jockey has even got your colours @JockeP22
Who needs GTsport's matchmaking when you've got Fuffleballin' ©
Splendid stuff @Famine, you and @Venari both in fact. There's a lot of work you're both putting in. 👍
That's quite an interesting spread of cars with kerfuffle.
Again I don't know what plans Zo has in mind but he's got to be interested in your ideas I would think.
I'd certainly be up for trying both systems, maybe on different days of the week.
That jockey has even got your colours @JockeP22
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- IfAndOr
Thanks for turning out guys and gals. Hope you enjoyed the track, the cars or at least the company.
The boost always seems to add something I think. Boost probably.
Sorry if I sounded a bit nasally, my sinuses always tend to block up during the summer. Breathing tends to be overrated anyway.
And back over to Zo... (We've kept it warm for you)
The boost always seems to add something I think. Boost probably.
Sorry if I sounded a bit nasally, my sinuses always tend to block up during the summer. Breathing tends to be overrated anyway.
That'll be double boost?
The boost races were with it set to real.
And back over to Zo... (We've kept it warm for you)
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- sutsagrd
Thanks for hosting and organising some great races. Can't believe how great the cobra was. I'm really rubbish in the vantage. Boost and slipstream was mad but really good fun.Thanks for turning out guys and gals. Hope you enjoyed the track, the cars or at least the company.
The boost always seems to add something I think. Boost probably.
Sorry if I sounded a bit nasally, my sinuses always tend to block up during the summer. Breathing tends to be overrated anyway.
That'll be double boost?
The boost races were with it set to real.
And back over to Zo... (We've kept it warm for you)
It looks like we can keep this going until GTS is out!!
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- IfAndOr
@Zolon32, since you've got a bit of catching up to do on your return, if you've got nothing else planned for this week how about Venari's suggestion of Famine's goosebumper
(It has been mentioned above but you might miss it in amongst all the other posts)
Spoon CR-Z at Apricot Hill Reverse
Everyone with 100%, weak boost, real slipstream and nitrous. Tyres CS?
It would make a good filler as well as being a FF.
Hope you had a good holiday.
(It has been mentioned above but you might miss it in amongst all the other posts)
Spoon CR-Z at Apricot Hill Reverse
Everyone with 100%, weak boost, real slipstream and nitrous. Tyres CS?
It would make a good filler as well as being a FF.
Hope you had a good holiday.
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- Zolon32
Hello folks, glad to see that there's plenty of activity, largely aimed at tightening up the racing 👍
Personally, I'd lean more towards Famine's method than Venari's, but that just because I'm poor at (can't be bothered to do) tuning.
Anyway, much as the last thing I want is for us to only race FF motors, I'm up for the CR-Z at Apricot Hill for this week. Then, just for a change, we can have some C.H.Y.L.B. racing on the 15th...
Cheers, Zo.
Personally, I'd lean more towards Famine's method than Venari's, but that just because I'm poor at (can't be bothered to do) tuning.
Anyway, much as the last thing I want is for us to only race FF motors, I'm up for the CR-Z at Apricot Hill for this week. Then, just for a change, we can have some C.H.Y.L.B. racing on the 15th...
Cheers, Zo.
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- GTP_Famine
Just thinking about it, the Boost might negate the tactical aspect of the CR-Zs - the battery.
In essence, the CR-Z - and others like it - have about 8-10 minutes of battery power at racing speeds, sometimes less, depending on the track. When it runs out, you become a sitting duck for anyone who hasn't run out - so do you pace yourself to stretch the battery life, or go balls out while you can and hope the lead sticks? With Boost, I don't think that will happen, as the game just rubber-bands you, regardless of power.
Are you up for doing power limiter shenanigans again?
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