Real Guns

[a6m5]

@Brett - Do you realize where the state of Oregon is located!? j/k

It would be fun to just hangout with everybody for a day and try out all the firearms in this thread though. Guys like Michael, Z-Man, etc. could teach us a thing or two.
Edit:

(half day Fridays are pretty awesome)

We heard you!

 

[Michael88]

I'd love to hang out with you guys, I'm sure it would be a blast, literally!

 

[Brett]

I will definitely try to take some pictures (half day Fridays are pretty awesome). 👍

I went out briefly yesterday and snapped two pictures. The first is a picture of the short rifle range.

The second picture is of my crappy rifle skills.

(It did not help that I need to sight in the Aimpoint. Though, I was only out to do some quick shooting and throw some lead down range; I was not really trying to be super accurate.)

I also shot 100 rounds through my Walther, but failed to grab a picture of the pistol range. I will grab more pictures at some point.

@Brett - Do you realize where the state of Oregon is located!? j/k

It would be fun to just hangout with everybody for a day and try out all the firearms in this thread though. Guys like Michael, Z-Man, etc. could teach us a thing or two.

It is on the west coast right? It is not like that it is that far away.

Edit:

We heard you!

I do not think you understand. Half day Fridays are awesome.

I'd love to hang out with you guys, I'm sure it would be a blast, literally!

(☞ﾟ∀ﾟ)☞

 

[a6m5]

The second picture is of my crappy rifle skills.

I'm not any good either, but it doesn't look bad for sighting in a new rifle! How many yards? Also, I've never shot a bullpup, but what did you think? How do you like your new rifle?

It is on the west coast right? It is not like that it is that far away.

It's far enough(I'm from a country similar to Cali in size).

I do not think you understand. Half day Fridays are awesome.

You are right. You better tell me again...... jerk.

 

[Parker]

The only thing I enjoy about in service is the fact that one day, for 8 hours, I get to go to a range, shoot and get paid for it. It takes about two hours for everyone to qualify for the year and after that the instructors allow us to shoot just about whatever we want.

I shot over 400 rounds through my Glock 35 and some fellow Officers brought some 12 Gauge Shotguns, AR-15s as well as various pistols that we had some fun with. My Sergeant has a side business and makes conceal carry holsters so a few guns shops around here sent him some of the new Glock 43s so he can make a mold for holsters. He brought them to the range and I put about 200 rounds through one, after shooting one I've decided I'll be purchasing one and using it as my conceal carry weapon for sure. It shoots better than I thought it would but the small magazine will definitely take some getting used to since I'm used to the 16 rounds I have with my 35. I suppose I'll be carrying an extra mag with me whenever I purchase the 43.

 

[Brett]

I'm not any good either, but it doesn't look bad for sighting in a new rifle! How many yards? Also, I've never shot a bullpup, but what did you think? How do you like your new rifle?

I did not really do any sighting it. I just ran 90 rounds through it to see how it was going to hit on paper. It is hitting quite low. I am supposed to hit the range tomorrow with a co-worker and should hopefully be able to get the thing zeroed.

I like bullpups. I also have very little rifle shooting and it is likely easier for me to adapt to configuration more easily. Frankly, I need a lot more trigger time behind both my Tavor and Ruger 10/22.

 

[acascianelli]

Here's my finished(mostly) Mosin. I think I may have underestimated the size of the scope...

Need to get a better set of rings. The ones I bought don't fit right and the ones that came with the scope are really cheap. I'm still on the fence about getting a Timney trigger, and I'm tossing around the idea of having the barrel threaded for a muzzle brake. Looking at bipod options too. But this project is done enough where I can start to turn my attention to the AR build I've been wanting to do.

 

[Michael88]

Turned out really nicely! Tough as you said, you need other rings, those are definitely way too high. I wouldn't go for a muzzle brake though, the barrel is relatively thin and a having a fat muzzle brake on the end of it wouldn't look very aesthetically pleasing in my opinion. Not to mention the 7.62x54 doesn't kick a lot.
If it were my gun I'd chop off the last 5 or so inch from the barrel, that way you get a totally new barrel crown which will definitely improve accuracy, the rifle is less of a pole and more maneuverable and the front sight is gone. The decrease in muzzle velocity would be absolutely negligible.

Also its good to see you went with the more practical 5 round mag, the ten rounder sticks out way too much for bench or prone shooting. On top of that it looks much better.

Oh, and what scope is that?

 

[acascianelli]

Turned out really nicely! Tough as you said, you need other rings, those are definitely way too high. I wouldn't go for a muzzle brake though, the barrel is relatively thin and a having a fat muzzle brake on the end of it wouldn't look very aesthetically pleasing in my opinion. Not to mention the 7.62x54 doesn't kick a lot.
If it were my gun I'd chop off the last 5 or so inch from the barrel, that way you get a totally new barrel crown which will definitely improve accuracy, the rifle is less of a pole and more maneuverable and the front sight is gone. The decrease in muzzle velocity would be absolutely negligible.

Also its good to see you went with the more practical 5 round mag, the ten rounder sticks out way too much for bench or prone shooting. On top of that it looks much better.

Oh, and what scope is that?

There was no magazine in the rifle in that photo. I do have a few of both the 5 and 10 round magazines though. I kinda figured I would only be running the 5 round magazines in it when I go to the range. The 10 round ones are more for SHTF type situations.

I can't remember the brand of the scope off the top of my head. I didn't want to spend much on it, so I'm taking a gamble on a cheap Chinese made one that some people on a forum I was reading were saying was actually pretty decent. It's a 10-40x50.

I'll have to see how much a gunsmith will charge to take a few inches off the barrel. I've kinda grown to like the long barrel length, but seeing as though I've removed the rear sight the front one is kinda pointless now.

 

[Michael88]

I just cleaned three rifle barrels simultaneously. The shininess of bores can be deceiving, I used Forrester bore foam and the gunk that came out of those ''shiny'' bores just minutes later is crazy, and that only after 400 rounds. But there is a trick, copper fouling is very visible at the muzzle. Clean it until you can see the bare clean metal at the muzzle.

Still, the most annoying part is that I need to send a few bullets downrange with each rifle to make them hit again, after a good cleaning their point of impact will be different the first 10 shots or so.

There was no magazine in the rifle in that photo. I do have a few of both the 5 and 10 round magazines though. I kinda figured I would only be running the 5 round magazines in it when I go to the range. .

Oh, whoops. I've heard the 10 shot mags can be problematic, have you tried them?

 

[David]

.

 

[Michael88]

Stop cleaning them so well then!

But my rifles need good hygiene!
A good cleaning regimen prolongs barrel life and will lead to better accuracy, also you can get to a point where there is so much fouling in the barrel pressure will rise and ugly things can happen.

Also the satisfying feel of your favorite guns having clean barrels.

 

[David]

.

 

[Michael88]

You're just wearing out your barrels quicker with all that brushing!

Nylon brushes!

Also:

 

[David]

.

 

[a6m5]

They have that VP9 look to them. Good looking Sigs. Also, thanks to you & Michael for the most interesting debate on barrel cleaning.

Here's my finished(mostly) Mosin. I think I may have underestimated the size of the scope...

I've never held a Mosin Nagant(I'd imagine it's not a small rifle), but yeah, scope is big. It looks good though, really modern looking now. Hope it shoots as good as it looks, and looking forward to your AR project. 👍

 

[Brett]

I did not really do any sighting it. I just ran 90 rounds through it to see how it was going to hit on paper. It is hitting quite low. I am supposed to hit the range tomorrow with a co-worker and should hopefully be able to get the thing zeroed.

I like bullpups. I also have very little rifle shooting and it is likely easier for me to adapt to configuration more easily. Frankly, I need a lot more trigger time behind both my Tavor and Ruger 10/22.

I did end up going to the range today. I put about 100 rounds through the Walther PPQ, 200 rounds through the Ruger 10/22 Takedown, and I am not sure how many through the Tavor. I also shot a guy's brand new Glock 43, along with another guy's tricked out Glock 35. I also let a few people shoot my Walther and HK; speaking of which, I need to stop doing that, they both did a better job with both than I did.

I also ventured over to the long range. I spent nearly the entire time on the long range getting the Tavor sighted in. While I did not get it dialed it quite as well as I would have liked, it just needs a hair bit more tweaking to be good. However, I took a single shot at the 200 yard gong--it was also unknowingly my last shot in the magazine and last shot of the day--and drilled the thing. Great way to end the day of shooting.

Oh and one picture of the long range:

 

[a6m5]

I struggle sighting stuff in, too. Sounds like you had a fun & were very productive. 👍 When I visit range, I'm always there right when they open. Otherwise, it could be bit busy & lead to some wait time. How was it at your range? Of course, not everyone get to go home early on Fridays.

I've shot at 200 just once(two shots), and could not believe how far it was to shoot. I also became a true believer in optics after that. As far as the bullseye on the paper target goes, iron sight at 200 was crap shoot, at least to me.

 

[Michael88]

I should make a business out of sighting in other peoples firearms, I would become a millionaire in mere weeks.

When I buy new scopes for my rifles I sight them in with 4 shots, and we're talking about .5 MOA groups in the bullseye at 100yds after.

Seriously, all you gotta do is shoot the rifle at 50yds, the sight cannot be so off you cant hit at 50 so you will make a hit. Then you guess the distance to the bullseye in elevation and windage. Look at your scope adjustments, if its 1/4 MOA each click will change the point of impact by .25 MOA at 100. At 50 you need twice as many clicks.

So I shoot at 50, hit, make the adjustments, the next hit should be very close to the bullseye, then I go to 100, make a shot which is usually off by 1-2'' in elevation, make a final adjustment and the rifle is sighted in dead center.
Then I shoot a 5 round group just to verify zero. Done.

If you need more rounds than that the barrel might heat up which, when burning hot, will change the point of impact and thus zero will shift around making you crazy.

After you sighted in the scope/dot don't touch it, don't bump it, don't tighten or loosen its screws, and remember the scope is sighted in for one brand of ammo, changing the brand and bullet weights will change the point of impact. Also when dis- and reassembling the gun use a torque wrench to make sure the action screws have the same tightness.

Also one common mistake people make when sighting in guns is using an awful rest, most of the time a front rest but no butt stock rest. Which leads inexperienced shooters to shoot shotgun-like patterns at 100 and that way you cannot even guess the current point of impact so trying to sight that thing in becomes a fruitless and expensive endeavor.

 

[acascianelli]

I've never held a Mosin Nagant(I'd imagine it's not a small rifle), but yeah, scope is big. It looks good though, really modern looking now. Hope it shoots as good as it looks, and looking forward to your AR project. 👍

It's definitely not a small rifle. Mine is a 91/30, not the shorter M44 carbine. With the bayonet on it, it's about as tall as me. 5ft 11ish. It's also a really heavy rifle, even the stock one I have is heavy. Wikipedia says that my model is 8.8lbs and has a 29" barrel in stock form. I figured the barrel is so long to keep velocities high given the powders they were using at the time.

Also, the one I modified happens to be an old PU sniper model. You can see where the old scope was mounted and hat they filled in the mounting holes.

 

[Michael88]

The barrel was this long because the Russians still expected bayonet charges.

That was already the case back in the 18th century, line infantry muskets had extremely long barrels solely for the purpose of giving the soldiers more reach for bayonet fights. The fighter with more reach usually wins.

Back then specialized small sniper units had accurate rifled flintlock long guns which were much shorter because they weren't expected to make bayonet charges. Unfortunately there were cases when those units were sacked by line infantry and got completely decimated because their short rifles had no chance against the spear-like muskets.

Flintlock sharpshooter rifle, not the short OAL

Smooth bore musket:

 

[Brett]

I struggle sighting stuff in, too. Sounds like you had a fun & were very productive. 👍 When I visit range, I'm always there right when they open. Otherwise, it could be bit busy & lead to some wait time. How was it at your range? Of course, not everyone get to go home early on Fridays.

It was a bit of a pain to get the Aimpoint sighted in because the elevation was so off. I lost count of how much elevation I had to dial in because it was hitting so low. We managed to get it very close to where it needs to be before we were essentially told to leave(*).

I have not sighted the iron sights in yet and would not have had time to do so yesterday. Even if I would have had the time to sight the iron sights in, then I would not have been able to because I forgot the sight adjustment tool at home.

In terms of the number of people out there shooting? My buddy and I were the only two people on the long range. For the entire time we were there, there was a total of five or six people on the pistol range. It was not busy at all. The weather was fantastic too, great temperature for shorts and a shirt and very little wind.

(*) Apparently there was a range work day scheduled for the day and I did not know about it (guess I needed to have checked the range calendar). The maintenance guy "graciously" allowed us to continue shooting on the long range while they were cleaning up the other ranges.

A simple heads up a bit before they started their work day would have gone a long ways to not annoying the crap out of me, especially since he had some attitude the whole time. Had the guy let us know about 15 minutes before they started, then we would have had no problem getting out of their way.

I've shot at 200 just once(two shots), and could not believe how far it was to shoot. I also became a true believer in optics after that. As far as the bullseye on the paper target goes, iron sight at 200 was crap shoot, at least to me.

That was my very first shot at 200 yards.

 

[David]

.

 

[a6m5]

I should make a business out of sighting in other peoples firearms, I would become a millionaire in mere weeks.

When I buy new scopes for my rifles I sight them in with 4 shots, and we're talking about .5 MOA groups in the bullseye at 100yds after.

Seriously, all you gotta do is shoot the rifle at 50yds, the sight cannot be so off you cant hit at 50 so you will make a hit. Then you guess the distance to the bullseye in elevation and windage. Look at your scope adjustments, if its 1/4 MOA each click will change the point of impact by .25 MOA at 100. At 50 you need twice as many clicks.

So I shoot at 50, hit, make the adjustments, the next hit should be very close to the bullseye, then I go to 100, make a shot which is usually off by 1-2'' in elevation, make a final adjustment and the rifle is sighted in dead center.
Then I shoot a 5 round group just to verify zero. Done.

If you need more rounds than that the barrel might heat up which, when burning hot, will change the point of impact and thus zero will shift around making you crazy.

After you sighted in the scope/dot don't touch it, don't bump it, don't tighten or loosen its screws, and remember the scope is sighted in for one brand of ammo, changing the brand and bullet weights will change the point of impact. Also when dis- and reassembling the gun use a torque wrench to make sure the action screws have the same tightness.

Also one common mistake people make when sighting in guns is using an awful rest, most of the time a front rest but no butt stock rest. Which leads inexperienced shooters to shoot shotgun-like patterns at 100 and that way you cannot even guess the current point of impact so trying to sight that thing in becomes a fruitless and expensive endeavor.

I had hell of a time trying to sight in my .22 rifle, and I still don't believe it's properly sighted in. Not sure if I learned from the process, or tips & guides I read online helped, but sighting of the AR-10 was accomplished pretty efficiently. However, I should wait until I try it out at a 100 before I open my big mouth. At 50, both the backup(Magpul flip-up) sights & Redfield were dialed in.

It's definitely not a small rifle. Mine is a 91/30, not the shorter M44 carbine. With the bayonet on it, it's about as tall as me.

I'm about 5'11" as well. After hearing this, I now wish you kept it stock, but with bayonet on it. After the history lesson from Michael on the rifle, the stock form sounds very impressive.

Flintlock sharpshooter rifle, not the short OAL

Got some serious style, this rifle. 👍

(*) Apparently there was a range work day scheduled for the day and I did not know about it (guess I needed to have checked the range calendar). The maintenance guy "graciously" allowed us to continue shooting on the long range while they were cleaning up the other ranges.

A simple heads up a bit before they started their work day would have gone a long ways to not annoying the crap out of me, especially since he had some attitude the whole time. Had the guy let us know about 15 minutes before they started, then we would have had no problem getting out of their way.

Sorry to hear that, Brett. Range I go to, schedule & closure for each range is right on their homepage. One time though, they closed the rimfire range on a day I wanted to shoot. These folks from local zoo basically showed up unannounced, and took over the range. Range officer let them take control, so I just played nice, and waited until they were done.

You all need to just buy farms... or friends who have farms. No nonsense, just shooting

Half day Friday, and now a free access to the farm. You guys are spoiled mother 🤬. j/k

I'm about 99% of the way to securing a new job and moving to the San Antonio area in the next month or so, so I'm gonna have to find a proper range or really suck up to some awesome new friends haha.

Awesome. 👍 I hope you finally get away from crazy gun control regulations. In Oregon, background check bill on private transfer is expected to pass soon. I used to support sensible(IMO) gun control bill like this, but that was before I learned the obvious tactics of the gun control lobby: Ban & take away anything they can from the second amendment, whether it made any sense or not(mag capacity, ban on handguns, etc.). Now I just follow their lead. I'm against anything & everything they bring up, I don't care if it's pure common sense.

 

[acascianelli]

I'm about 5'11" as well. After hearing this, I now wish you kept it stock, but with bayonet on it. After the history lesson from Michael on the rifle, the stock form sounds very impressive.

I have another pre-war 91/30 that is in much better condition that I won't be modifying.

 

[Michael88]

Got some serious style, this rifle. 👍.

My uncle has an original of this rifle type from the early 1800's, you wouldn't believe how accurate it is, once he found out the proper bullet+patch+charge combination it can keep up with modern rifles when open sights are used!
And its powerful, a .62 caliber ball hit will send you into the next world for sure, its like a 12 gauge slug.

I had hell of a time trying to sight in my .22 rifle, and I still don't believe it's properly sighted in.

Have you switched ammo brands during your sighting in process? When I sighted in my 22 I found out that there are tremendous point of impact changes between various brands, some in excess of 5''-6'' windage and/or elevation at 100.

 

[a6m5]

I have another pre-war 91/30 that is in much better condition that I won't be modifying.

You mentioned this before, huh? I think I just forgot.

My uncle has an original of this rifle type from the early 1800's, you wouldn't believe how accurate it is, once he found out the proper bullet+patch+charge combination it can keep up with modern rifles when open sights are used!
And its powerful, a .62 caliber ball hit will send you into the next world for sure, its like a 12 gauge slug.

True SHTF rifle.

Have you switched ammo brands during your sighting in process? When I sighted in my 22 I found out that there are tremendous point of impact changes between various brands, some in excess of 5''-6'' windage and/or elevation at 100.

I'm gonna have to keep that in mind. Also, I was putting so many rounds through in the process, I'm sure the barrel was more than warm, and I was getting little frustrated, so I'm sure those factors didn't help either. I'll do better next time.

 

[Brett]

Sorry to hear that, Brett. Range I go to, schedule & closure for each range is right on their homepage. One time though, they closed the rimfire range on a day I wanted to shoot. These folks from local zoo basically showed up unannounced, and took over the range. Range officer let them take control, so I just played nice, and waited until they were done.

It was not a huge deal, as I was expecting to run into an old curmudgeon or two at some point, but a heads up would have gone a long way to making the situation better. I did add the ranges calendar to my Google calendar so I can check out when work days are in the future and avoid situations like that in the future.

 

[a6m5]

It was not a huge deal, as I was expecting to run into an old curmudgeon or two at some point, but a heads up would have gone a long way to making the situation better. I did add the ranges calendar to my Google calendar so I can check out when work days are in the future and avoid situations like that in the future.

Right on. 👍 Yeah, lack of communication never fails. I've only visited two ranges ever, but I've yet to run into any a-holes(maybe one idiot lol). Mostly polite & friendly people at the range I frequent, so my only general concern is the place be too busy, or my shot being off.

I also used to forget an item or two going to the range, but I now go off the check list.

 

[Brett]

Right on. 👍 Yeah, lack of communication never fails. I've only visited two ranges ever, but I've yet to run into any a-holes(maybe one idiot lol). Mostly polite & friendly people at the range I frequent, so my only general concern is the place be too busy, or my shot being off.

I also used to forget an item or two going to the range, but I now go off the check list.

Everyone else I encountered earlier in the day could not have been much friendlier. I shot four guns from three different people (two from one and one from each of the other two) and had some nice conversation with all three of them.