Real Guns
- Thread starter Calibretto
- 8,872 comments
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- 5,201
- Nicest part of hell
AFAIK a friend of him has a private outdoor shooting range somewhere in the mountains that allows for 1000-1200 meter shots.
Anyway, look what followed me home! A .223 10.5 '' upper with a very heavy profile threaded barrel! Today it was sunny and really nice, a perfect day for a paintjob.
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- 5,201
- Nicest part of hell
Today I finally got the chance to sight in my 10.5 inch barrel AR. I was surprised how many things I read about short barreled AR's weren't true in reality. First of all, with 3 different brands of ammunition + my own reloads there was no visible fireball, nothing at all, with a standard flash hider.
The concussion blast wasn't as insane like many people claim, it was a bit louder than my 20'' AR but nothing to worry about. Any long barreled rifle with a muzzle brake is considerably worse.
Side to side compared with my 20'' barrel AR the recoil was hardly any different, I could shoot it as fast and stay in the target as well as with my long AR. The recoil might be a tiny bit faster but it makes no difference to me.
The velocity loss wasn't so big, I had a chronograph with me and I measured 2640 fps with standard 55 grain FMJ.
My own reloads bumped that up to 2705 fp/s without overpressure. Reliability with all brands was 100%. (60 shots or so) Brass ejection wasn't crazy, it ejected like my long barrel AR.
Accuracy was also good, that's what I shot with a red dot with no magnification at 100 meters. And I shot it fast.
And this with the backup iron sights, also at 100 meters. I was a little high but got it dialed in now.
Despite the short sight radius with the 10.5 inch barrel and me not trying very hard, with good iron sights its accurate and fun to shoot.
So all in all I'd say a 10.5 inch barrel AR is more than just a fun range toy or a fad, in fact I'm so happy with mine I'll make it my go-to rifle from now on.
If you have ever considered getting a short AR - all I can say is - get one!
Oh and buy the way, I shot this with my scoped 20'' AR, with FMJ ball, 100 meters (110yds). The red circle is 2'' in diameter. That's not too bad for plain ole ball ammo.
The concussion blast wasn't as insane like many people claim, it was a bit louder than my 20'' AR but nothing to worry about. Any long barreled rifle with a muzzle brake is considerably worse.
Side to side compared with my 20'' barrel AR the recoil was hardly any different, I could shoot it as fast and stay in the target as well as with my long AR. The recoil might be a tiny bit faster but it makes no difference to me.
The velocity loss wasn't so big, I had a chronograph with me and I measured 2640 fps with standard 55 grain FMJ.
My own reloads bumped that up to 2705 fp/s without overpressure. Reliability with all brands was 100%. (60 shots or so) Brass ejection wasn't crazy, it ejected like my long barrel AR.
Accuracy was also good, that's what I shot with a red dot with no magnification at 100 meters. And I shot it fast.
And this with the backup iron sights, also at 100 meters. I was a little high but got it dialed in now.
Despite the short sight radius with the 10.5 inch barrel and me not trying very hard, with good iron sights its accurate and fun to shoot.
So all in all I'd say a 10.5 inch barrel AR is more than just a fun range toy or a fad, in fact I'm so happy with mine I'll make it my go-to rifle from now on.
If you have ever considered getting a short AR - all I can say is - get one!
Oh and buy the way, I shot this with my scoped 20'' AR, with FMJ ball, 100 meters (110yds). The red circle is 2'' in diameter. That's not too bad for plain ole ball ammo.
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- 2,123
- Arizona
- Thugnificent34
- Zeke34
I had some airline credit that was going to expire very soon so I took a flight to Salt Lake City (SLC), Utah. While in SLC, I visited a range I found out about 4 years ago from Chad at Green Light Shooting on Youtube. My intentions were to use their Clay Pigeon Range and try out a few of their full-auto firearms. But when I got there, I had to use one of their 20 gauge shotguns because they were out of 12 gauge ammo. Sadly their full-auto rentals were down because they did not have any ammo for them. The range visit wasn't necessarily a huge failure. Shooting clay pigeons indoor was fun. I would like to visit Utah again some time in future to check out one of their 1,000+ yards range. Whenever I take that trip I hope this range has ammo for their full auto rentals. Below is a video about the range I went to.
Lastly, although it is on the expensive side (approximately $10 more than usual) it was nice seeing pallets of ammo. Now I'm just going to patiently wait for prices to go back to normal. I hope all is well with everyone, I can't wait till we can all get back to shooting the way we use to.
Lastly, although it is on the expensive side (approximately $10 more than usual) it was nice seeing pallets of ammo. Now I'm just going to patiently wait for prices to go back to normal. I hope all is well with everyone, I can't wait till we can all get back to shooting the way we use to.
- 5,633
- Ohio
Yeah, I’m on pause mode.
Meanwhile BB and pellets guns are fun.
Meanwhile BB and pellets guns are fun.
- 5,201
- Nicest part of hell
Since the shooting range is back open, but in very limited capacity, I handlaoded some .375 to try out soon. I love those big cartridges, loaded them with a Sierra 300 grain SPBT, backed by 72.5 grains of powder for about 2600 fp/s. On the far right a .223 55 grain for comparison.
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- 5,633
- Ohio
Shooting a lot of lead lately. Yeah pellets are dirty.
- 5,201
- Nicest part of hell
Just mounted my Primary Arms 3-18x50 FFP .223 DMR scope today, plus my 30mm mount. I declare my 5.56 DMR build finished.
This thing rocks, with the reticle you have 3 ways to verify range, it has bullet drop compensation for the .223 out to 1000, it has wind holds for 5-10 mph winds, it has hold for moving targets, its even illuminated. And the turret cannot be bumped out of zero, you first have to pull on them to make adjustments. AND its FFP! AND the lenses are great. AND its very light weight for its size. Best scope I've ever had!
This thing rocks, with the reticle you have 3 ways to verify range, it has bullet drop compensation for the .223 out to 1000, it has wind holds for 5-10 mph winds, it has hold for moving targets, its even illuminated. And the turret cannot be bumped out of zero, you first have to pull on them to make adjustments. AND its FFP! AND the lenses are great. AND its very light weight for its size. Best scope I've ever had!
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David
Premium
- 2,732
@Michael88 Nonsense. You have many inches of unused rail space left.
- 5,633
- Ohio
Hah. Two scopes in a row for 2000 yards! Because you can.
The cheap piece of Daisy scope on the 880 works decently enough that I can ding coins from 27 feet first try all day. The BB guns barely ding coins.
800 FPS and Gamo pellets
I know, don’t diesel your pellets, but once won’t hurt…
Hurt the quarter though. Loud pop!
The cheap piece of Daisy scope on the 880 works decently enough that I can ding coins from 27 feet first try all day. The BB guns barely ding coins.
800 FPS and Gamo pellets
I know, don’t diesel your pellets, but once won’t hurt…
Hurt the quarter though. Loud pop!
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- 2,123
- Arizona
- Thugnificent34
- Zeke34
@Michael88 that is a very nice setup. I'm looking forward hearing about how well it performs for you at distance.
@coryclifford I'm amazed not only by the shots you're able perform with a pellet gun; but also the damage those pellets are capable of doing to a coin. That is freakin' awesome.
@coryclifford I'm amazed not only by the shots you're able perform with a pellet gun; but also the damage those pellets are capable of doing to a coin. That is freakin' awesome.
- 5,633
- Ohio
Yeah, I shoot a very lot. 
I’m impressed also by the dents.
The new plan is to break the sound barrier in my apartment.
And yeah, tell me someone won’t think twice about coming in my place.
I’m impressed also by the dents.
The new plan is to break the sound barrier in my apartment.
And yeah, tell me someone won’t think twice about coming in my place.
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- 5,201
- Nicest part of hell
👍
- 5,201
- Nicest part of hell
This guys .50BMG rifle exploded due to a faulty round. Resulted in a punctured lung, torn jugular vein, broken face and shredded fingers. 
One thing needs to be said though, the way the gun is designed it does not offer a lot of safety margin in case of overpressure. For example, there have been tests with the old Mauser K98k bolt, they got the pressure up all the way to over 100.000 PSI and the action survived, though the bolt got stuck and the chamber ballooned.
One thing needs to be said though, the way the gun is designed it does not offer a lot of safety margin in case of overpressure. For example, there have been tests with the old Mauser K98k bolt, they got the pressure up all the way to over 100.000 PSI and the action survived, though the bolt got stuck and the chamber ballooned.
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David
Premium
- 2,732
I assume they prioritize keeping the weight of the gun down. You have to wonder how far over pressure that round was and what they have tested for, or if some other material defect or whatever was the actual culprit. Personally don't know if I'd mess with any of these skimpy 50s like that. I think it would be Barrett or please keep that massive around away from my face.
- 5,201
- Nicest part of hell
Yeah I hear you, if I wanted a .50BMG rifle I sure as heck would not cheap out on it and would get one that is used and proven by the military - or none at all. If something goes wrong with a round THAT big things get really ugly. IMO if that 85k PSI estimation is true, thats still catastrophic failure and I would go so far as to say that a traditional properly made bolt-action would not have blown apart like THAT. Stuck bolt & blown barrel for sure, but not a bolt-into-face failure.
Heck, usually the barrel fails looooong before the action does, I really think this rifle had weak metallurgy or the screw-thread bolt design is already at its limit with normal pressures.
Heck, usually the barrel fails looooong before the action does, I really think this rifle had weak metallurgy or the screw-thread bolt design is already at its limit with normal pressures.
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Brett
Premium
- 8,632
- Oklahoma
I have not watched all of the video, but that design looks to be less than ideal. I would not touch a .50BMG that was not from Barrett, Accuracy International, or McMillan. I am sure there are others worth considering too.
Serbu's two other .50 BMG designs would have probably done better.
Serbu's two other .50 BMG designs would have probably done better.
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- 5,633
- Ohio
Holy swear words about Scott Kentucky Ballistics
Watchi him all the time.
Watchi him all the time.
- 5,201
- Nicest part of hell
This reminds me of a friends kaboom. He was a really good muzzle loader shooter but one day he chatted while loading the rifle, he put in a powder charge, then rammed down a bullet, from all the talking he forgot he already loaded it, so he loaded another powder charge and another bullet.
It blew the barrel and stock apart like a bomb, shrapnel hit his face and hands. You can totally kaboom a traditional (modern replica) black powder muzzle loader even though the pressure is like half of that of a modern nitro powder rifle. The rifle was a Gibbs long range rifle, it shoots relatively big powder charges with extremely long heavy .45 conicals, weighing 550+ grains. So the total projectile weight was 1100 grains, this and a double charge of powder was too much for the barrel.
The exact same thing happened to me once, luckily the rifle had a much bigger caliber and the projectiles were lighter, so the pressure was still low enough not to cause any damage. The recoil however nearly pushed from the chair, and I weigh 220lbs.
But the lesson here is, if you shoot muzzleloaders - DONT TALK WHILE LOADING!
And if you are not sure of the condition of your muzzleloader, you can check it with the cleaning rod. How far it goes down the bore till it stops gives you a good idea of whats in it. If it stops long before it should and cannot be rammed down, stop and get your ball puller out!
It blew the barrel and stock apart like a bomb, shrapnel hit his face and hands. You can totally kaboom a traditional (modern replica) black powder muzzle loader even though the pressure is like half of that of a modern nitro powder rifle. The rifle was a Gibbs long range rifle, it shoots relatively big powder charges with extremely long heavy .45 conicals, weighing 550+ grains. So the total projectile weight was 1100 grains, this and a double charge of powder was too much for the barrel.
The exact same thing happened to me once, luckily the rifle had a much bigger caliber and the projectiles were lighter, so the pressure was still low enough not to cause any damage. The recoil however nearly pushed from the chair, and I weigh 220lbs.
But the lesson here is, if you shoot muzzleloaders - DONT TALK WHILE LOADING!
And if you are not sure of the condition of your muzzleloader, you can check it with the cleaning rod. How far it goes down the bore till it stops gives you a good idea of whats in it. If it stops long before it should and cannot be rammed down, stop and get your ball puller out!
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- 2,123
- Arizona
- Thugnificent34
- Zeke34
Here is the video of Mark Serbu's response. I watched Scott's video when it was first released and what happened to him very unfortunate. But I am grateful for the fact that he is still alive and will be able to get back to doing what he enjoys. For me this incident is a reminder of how inheretantly dangerous our hobby is. Majority of the time I shoot at a gun range with staff and emergency supplies. But for the times I'm out in the desert with friends, I think it is time for me to purchase trauma kit to keep in my range bag.
Aside from all of this how is everybody doing? Are any of you finally seeing a decrease in the price of ammo in your area? I recently found brass cased 9mm ammo for $26 per box of 50-rounds. I'm looking forward to getting back in the range, I hope ammo prices go back normal very soon.
- 5,201
- Nicest part of hell
Also, what I have been wondering - he shot old sabot rounds. I've heard of at least one case where shooting old sabot rounds caused very weird accuracy issues - plastics, especially the ones used in the 80's and early 90's wasn't as good as what we use today, it tended to go brittle over time, especially when exposed to mineral oils and UV radiation. In the case I mentioned, it was suspected that the plastic sabots gone brittle and shattered in the bore, causing the projectile to keyhole in the target.
What if the .50 SLAP sabot shattered in the bore and the tip of the super hard penetrator dart caught the rifling and jammed into the barrel steel, with all the enormous pressure behind it? Super hard immovable penetrator coming to an immediate halt, lots of pressure that could not get anywhere quickly enough = Boom?
This would also explain the weird issues with the previous round, one hit WAY off, the other felt WAY more powerful. It would explain the seemingly weird unpredictable behavior of those rounds.
Personally, I do not think it was caused by dodgy powder charges, I have seen people shoot ammunition from world war one, some rounds were a little hotter for sure, but no big deal from a bolt action rifle of that era. Now storing rounds for 30 years in a way it turns them into unpredictable bombs? Possible, but I doubt it.
_____
Speaking of kabooms, there seems to be an issue with Winchester Lake City manufactured .223 M193! Lot Nr.:WLC21C815-067 WAY overpressure round just exploded someone's AR:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/F...-added-Winchester-notified/118-763688/?page=1
What if the .50 SLAP sabot shattered in the bore and the tip of the super hard penetrator dart caught the rifling and jammed into the barrel steel, with all the enormous pressure behind it? Super hard immovable penetrator coming to an immediate halt, lots of pressure that could not get anywhere quickly enough = Boom?
This would also explain the weird issues with the previous round, one hit WAY off, the other felt WAY more powerful. It would explain the seemingly weird unpredictable behavior of those rounds.
Personally, I do not think it was caused by dodgy powder charges, I have seen people shoot ammunition from world war one, some rounds were a little hotter for sure, but no big deal from a bolt action rifle of that era. Now storing rounds for 30 years in a way it turns them into unpredictable bombs? Possible, but I doubt it.
_____
Speaking of kabooms, there seems to be an issue with Winchester Lake City manufactured .223 M193! Lot Nr.:WLC21C815-067 WAY overpressure round just exploded someone's AR:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/F...-added-Winchester-notified/118-763688/?page=1
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- 38,918
- Application hell
- MP-Omnis
FWIW, I wouldn't touch milsurp of anything that goes bang that's been in the middle east. I wonder whether the Kentucky Ballistics guy actually had a booby-trapped round... Dirty Tricks of Government Forces: Where Deception and Deadliness Meet Inside a Gun - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
Obelisk
Premium
- 9,722
- United States
- RMedia_Obelisk
Been following the Kentucky Ballistics affair and good Lord, that was hard to listen to. I'm suspecting a sabotaged round more than anything, from what I've heard.
I also had a talk with my dad in light of that incident and with the ammo shortages in mind, and I suggested to him that we might be better off with carry revolvers rather than pistols since we may have no choice but to get ammo that may not be as reliable. With that in mind, a revolver is more fail-proof than a semi auto since it's not dependent on the recoil energy of the round firing, so rounds that're a little weak won't jam it up.
What caliber of revolver should I be considering, and are there any particular models to go for? I was thinking a .357/.38 DA/SA of some kind so I can have something both practical and a bit fun, should I ever manage to get my hands on .357 ammo.
I also had a talk with my dad in light of that incident and with the ammo shortages in mind, and I suggested to him that we might be better off with carry revolvers rather than pistols since we may have no choice but to get ammo that may not be as reliable. With that in mind, a revolver is more fail-proof than a semi auto since it's not dependent on the recoil energy of the round firing, so rounds that're a little weak won't jam it up.
What caliber of revolver should I be considering, and are there any particular models to go for? I was thinking a .357/.38 DA/SA of some kind so I can have something both practical and a bit fun, should I ever manage to get my hands on .357 ammo.
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