Real Life Street Drags

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another very rare and VERY expensive car and the fastest muscle car built is the LO23 Hemi Dart :bowdown:




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Have any good pics of the Dart GT-S? The one with a 440 slammed into the engine bay? I loooooove that car. I saw something on it one day, and they said that there was only about 5" of movement by the front tires, otherwise the headers would rub!
 
another very rare and VERY expensive car and the fastest muscle car built is the LO23 Hemi Dart :bowdown:




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I raise you this.

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They probably are similar in performance. I think it's all down to what body you like more.
slash that car was no match to dodges W023 coronets.... the LO23 and BO29 hemi darts and barracuda were waay faster search them up for info they held the record for fastest production built car in the 1/4 till the veyron came out.....they ran low 10's high 9's right off the bat


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This will give you all something to debate,keep in mind,these are production,off the showroom floor,not factory sponsored homogolated race cars okay
50 FASTEST MUSCLECARS
# YEAR/MODEL ET/MPH ENGINE HP TRANS GEAR SOURCE
1
1966 427 Cobra 12.20@118 427 8V 425 4-Speed 3.54 CC 11/65
2 1966 Corvette 427 12.8@112 L72 427 425 4-Speed 3.36 CD 11/65
3 1969 Road Runner 12.91@111.8 440 Six BBL 390 4-Speed 4.10 SS 6/69
4 1970 Hemi Cuda 13.10@107.12 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 3.54 CC 11/69
5 1970 Chevelle SS454 13.12@107.01 454 LS6 450 4-Speed 3.55 CC 11/69
6 1969 Camaro 13.16@110.21 427 ZL1 430 4-Speed 4.10 HC 6/69
7 1968 Corvette 13.30@108 427 6V 435 4-Speed 3.70 HC 5/68
8 1970 Road Runner 13.34@107.5 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 SS 12/69
9 1970 Buick GS Stage I 13.38@105.5 455 Stage I 360 automatic 3.64 MT 1/70
10 1968 Corvette 427 13.41@109.5 L72 427 425 4-Speed 3.55 CD 6/68
11 1969 Charger 500 13.48@109 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 4.10 HR 2/69
12 1968 Charger 13.50@105 426 Hemi 425 automatic 3.23 CD 11/67
12 1970 Plymouth Superbird 13.50@105 426 Hemi 425 ? ? ?
14 1968 Road Runner 13.54@105.1 426 Hemi 425 automatic 3.55 CD 1/69
15 1973 Trans Am 13.54@104.29 455 SD 310 automatic 3.42 HR 6/73
16 1969 Corvette 13.56@111.1 427 L88 430 automatic 3.36 HR 4/69
17 1969 Super Bee 13.56@105.6 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 4.10 HR 8/69
18 1969 Boss 429 Mustang 13.60@106 Boss 429 375 4-Speed 3.91 HC 9/69
19 1970 Challenger R/T 13.62@104.3 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 3.23 CC 11/69
20 1970 Torino Cobra 13.63@105.9 429 SCJ 370 automatic 3.91 SS 3/70
21 1968 Biscayne 13.65@105 427 L72 425 4-Speed 4.56 SS 4/68
22 1964 Polara 500 13.70@107.37 426 4V 365 4-Speed 3.23 HC 2/64
23 1969 GTX 13.70@102.8 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 MT 1/69
24 1969 Dart 440 13.71@105 440 4V 375 automatic 3.55 CC 5/69
25 1971 Road Runner 13.71@101.2 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 CC 1/71
26 1971 Cuda 13.72@106 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 SS 4/71
27 1971 Corvette 13.72@102.04 454 LS6 450 4-Speed 3.36 CL 8/71
28 1971 Super Bee 13.73@104 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 MT 12/70
29 1968 Hurst/Olds 13.77@103.91 455 W-30 390 automatic 3.91 SS 8/68
30 1970 Hemi 'Cuda 13.78@101.2 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 MT 9/69
31 1968 Firebird 13.79@106 400 HO 335 4-Speed N/A HR 3/68
32 1967 Corvette 13.80@108 427 6V 435 4-Speed 3.55 HR 5/67
33 1965 Catalina 13.80@106 421 6V ? 4-Speed 3.42 CD 3/65
34 1969 Super Bee Six Pack 13.80@104.2 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 CD 7/69
35 1971 Boss 351 Mustang 13.80@104 Boss 351 330 4-Speed 3.91 MT 1/71
36 1966 Satellite 13.81@104 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 3.54 CD 4/66
37 1969 Coronet R/T 13.83@102.27 440 4V 375 4-Speed 4.10 SS 4/69
38 1968 Cyclone GT 13.86@101.69 428 CJ 335 automatic 4.11 MT 8/68
39 1969 Nova SS 396 13.87@105.1 396 4V 375 automatic 3.55 HR 7/69
40 1969 Shelby GT-500 13.87@104.52 428 CJ 335 4-Speed 3.91 SS 9/69
41 1969 Cyclone Cobra Jet 13.88@101.7 428 CJ 335 automatic 4.11 MT 1/69
42 1970 Olds 4-4-2 W-30 13.88@95.84 455 W-30 370 automatic 3.42 CC 11/69
43 1962 Corvette 13.89@105.14 327 FI 360 4-Speed 4.10 HR 1/62
44 1969 Barracuda 13.89@103.21 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 SS 8/69
45 1962 Catalina 13.90@107 421 4V ? 4-Speed 4.30 MT 5/62
46 1969 Mustang Mach I 13.90@103.32 428 CJ 335 automatic 3.50 CL 3/69
47 1967 GTO 13.90@102.8 400 RA 360 automatic 4.33 CL 10/67
48 1970 Trans Am 13.90@102 400 RA 345 4-Speed 3.91 HR 2/70
49 1970 Torino Cobra 13.99@101 429 4V ? 4-Speed 3.91 MT 2/70
Legend: CC=Car Craft, CD=Car and Driver, CL=Car Life, HC=Hi Performance Cars, HR=Hot Rod, MCR=Muscle Car Review, MM=Mopar Muscle, MT=Motor Trend, SS=Super Stock
 
This will give you all something to debate,keep in mind,these are production,off the showroom floor,not factory sponsored homogolated race cars okay

i never said that the hemi dart was the fastest STREET LEGAL muscle car built and it techniqly was a production car that dodge built.... DODGE built the engine and car but sent the car to Hurst so they can put the ENGINE IN the car but HURST DID NOT build the car :D....PS #5 wrong LS6 was offered as a crate engine never installed in a chevelle by the factory
 
The list is somewhat accurate. Many of those are debatable. It depends on the driver and reaction as well. It's funny to see how the Torino 429 is up higher than the 428 Mustangs, when in fact the 428 Mustangs should be right there with it. The 429 Mustangs would walk all over a 429 Torino, much lighter car.
 
Have any good pics of the Dart GT-S? The one with a 440 slammed into the engine bay? I loooooove that car. I saw something on it one day, and they said that there was only about 5" of movement by the front tires, otherwise the headers would rub!

the car you are talking about is the 1968 GSS Dart built by Mr norms. In 1967 Krauss Norms asked Dodge to put a Big block in the dart and offer it as a production car but Dodge engineers said it was not possible so Norms decided to do it himself and offer it as a special car sold exclusivley in his dealer (Grand Spaulding Dodge). in 1968 he introduced the 383 and 440ci Darts which shocked the Dodge engineers when they said what did he do to make the Big Block fit he left and came back with a sledgehammer and said he just banged the **** out of the shock towers :lol:....sooo in 1969 Dodge offered the 383ci dart as a production car but they never offered the 440ci version only Mr.Norms did
 
The list is somewhat accurate. Many of those are debatable. It depends on the driver and reaction as well. It's funny to see how the Torino 429 is up higher than the 428 Mustangs, when in fact the 428 Mustangs should be right there with it. The 429 Mustangs would walk all over a 429 Torino, much lighter car.
Actually the ford torino believe it or not has a better weight distribution than the mustang plus on those skinny poly-bias tires the lighter mustang would not hook compared to the heavier torino remember these are OFF SHOWROOM bud haha
 
Actually the ford torino believe it or not has a better weight distribution than the mustang plus on those skinny poly-bias tires the lighter mustang would not hook compared to the heavier torino remember these are OFF SHOWROOM bud haha

Well they don't say what type of Mustang body they used either though, so that could be taken into effect.
 
The list is somewhat accurate. Many of those are debatable. It depends on the driver and reaction as well. It's funny to see how the Torino 429 is up higher than the 428 Mustangs, when in fact the 428 Mustangs should be right there with it. The 429 Mustangs would walk all over a 429 Torino, much lighter car.[/quot
The LS6 Chevelle had the title of the fastest production muscle car for as long as I could remember.Certainly with all the variables considered,driver,weather conditions,altitude,etc.Im sure the pecking order could be shuffled around a bit,but the top 2,Cobra and Corvette,with their power to weight ratio,cant really be denied.
 
I raise you this.

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I just saw this,these are wicked! 427,2-4barrels,wheels up off the line,awesome! There is a guy who runs his at the U.S. Nats every year,I make it a point to go to his pits each trip.These things are amazing in the fact that almost every race he has to give the opponent a head start and always tracks em down.I love these.Lemme see what I have here.
 
the car you are talking about is the 1968 GSS Dart built by Mr norms. In 1967 Krauss Norms asked Dodge to put a Big block in the dart and offer it as a production car but Dodge engineers said it was not possible so Norms decided to do it himself and offer it as a special car sold exclusivley in his dealer (Grand Spaulding Dodge). in 1968 he introduced the 383 and 440ci Darts which shocked the Dodge engineers when they said what did he do to make the Big Block fit he left and came back with a sledgehammer and said he just banged the **** out of the shock towers :lol:....sooo in 1969 Dodge offered the 383ci dart as a production car but they never offered the 440ci version only Mr.Norms did

Thanks, I had all of that somewhere in my memory bank, but couldn't bring it up. I've seen it on TV, and maybe read an article on it. Google isn't much help because it only pulls up results based on what you search. All though, you know the engine bay of this car when you see it! lol

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If I'm not mistaken, this one's a 383 car, because the 440 headers are/were massive
 
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The LS6 was a production engine. Production numbers are unclear but, it was built by GM on the assembly line. http://ls6registry.com/tech/models_sold.htm

And the 440 Dart?? The 383 and 440 are the same size! If one fits so does the other.

http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=CH1008-72084
I think Chris was thinking of the LS7.
yes,he was thinking of something else besides the legendary LS6 I can assure you of that,I was being hauled around as a child in my Dads 1970 SS with a LS6,
More info on the 383 and 440. They are in the same family. The 383 is a low block and the 440 is a raised block. The 383 is a "B" and the 440 is an "RB" (Raised Block).

Heads are the same, intakes are different, the 440 is wider. The distributor shaft on a 440 is longer. There is a spacer available that lets you run a 440 distributor in a 383. Cams, Headers, water pumps, accessory bracketing, pulleys, almost all the rest is the same.

My Mom and Dad with my cousin in or around 1970,Dad got a new car every 3 yrs,little did he know when he traded this one in,he was giving up an early retirement with what it would be worth today,they just didnt see a big deal in those cars then,these are the only pics I have of it
 
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The LS6 was a production engine. Production numbers are unclear but, it was built by GM on the assembly line. http://ls6registry.com/tech/models_sold.htm

And the 440 Dart?? The 383 and 440 are the same size! If one fits so does the other.

http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=CH1008-72084

my bad i thought it was the 500hp LS7 454 haha oops......and i never said the 440 didn't fit im saying DODGE THEMSELVES never put a 440 in and OFFERED IT as a production car only Mr.Norms did he offered both 383 and 440 versions. Dodge ONLY offered the 383ci dart which was GTS i think
 
Regardless of what came in what,a 383 or a 440 in those old tin can Mopars were spooky,with the torsion bar front suspension,a 100mph seemed like 150!With most of the factory gearing being in or around the 2.70 to 3.00 range,everyone of them I was ever in would peg the speedo with a good 2 inches of gas pedal left! Thats no bull.
 
Regardless of what came in what,a 383 or a 440 in those old tin can Mopars were spooky,with the torsion bar front suspension,a 100mph seemed like 150!With most of the factory gearing being in or around the 2.70 to 3.00 range,everyone of them I was ever in would peg the speedo with a good 2 inches of gas pedal left! Thats no bull.

You think that's crazy, I've seen a 1400hp Dart right in front of my eyes. Had 20 minutes of run time on it, first time it had been out of the garage. Didn't even have a hood yet. Had a 13 point roll cage in it. Was an aftermarket 440 block, 572 inch blown motor on alky.
 
Regardless of what came in what,a 383 or a 440 in those old tin can Mopars were spooky,with the torsion bar front suspension,a 100mph seemed like 150!With most of the factory gearing being in or around the 2.70 to 3.00 range,everyone of them I was ever in would peg the speedo with a good 2 inches of gas pedal left! Thats no bull.

hahah yea thats true..... in this book which was written in the 70's he test the 1968 440ci barracuda and with nothing more than just a pair of slicks he knocked off high 11's
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Anyways, wish we could change the tire widths and add ladder bars...that would be nice...

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my bad i thought it was the 500hp LS7 454 haha oops......and i never said the 440 didn't fit im saying DODGE THEMSELVES never put a 440 in and OFFERED IT as a production car only Mr.Norms did he offered both 383 and 440 versions. Dodge ONLY offered the 383ci dart which was GTS i think

No sir. try again.. That's a lovely legend though..:lol:http://gtsregistry1969.com

From the GTS registry.

What's the big secret about the "M" code GTSport??? More questions seem to exist than answers surrounding this Dodge.

The GTS Registry will try to sort out the story behind the car. We will focus on the GTS "M" code for the most OBVIOUS reason here on the GTS Registry. It IS a GTS after all!! Hopefully after reading this section, we can provide some insight into the "M" code cars. Hopefully we can reverse the trend and provide more answers than questions!!

What is the "M" code: Myth? Rarity? Legend? Confusion? All four can describe the 1969 Dodge GTSport equipped with the optional 440 4bbl. engine. 1969 was the only year that Mopar officially offered the 440 in the both the GTS and the 'Cuda440.

These are not mythical cars built by the skunk works at Chrysler. They DID exist. Dodge produced 640 of the GTS variant, and Plymouth produced 340 of the 440'Cuda version. That makes them pretty rare by any standard. Legend has it that Mr. Norm's Grand-Spaulding Dodge had handbuilt the first couple of 1969 "M" codes. Legend has it that Hurst-Campbell built ALL the 1969 "M" code cars. "Legend" is wrong, and has lent confusion to the story behind the "M". But it is best to start at the beginning in 1967 to help clear up the events leading to 1969!

Yes, it is a documented fact that Mr. Norm dropped a 383 between the fenders of a 1967 Dart GT, drove it to Highland Park, MI, and showed it to the Chrysler engineering staff. Chrysler "saw the light" and started dropping 383 engines into the Dart GT and calling it the GTS. THAT is how we got the first "big block" in to a A-body Mopar. Mr. Norm was very pivotal in this development.

1968 saw the 383 offered as an option, along with the new 340, in the GTSport. But Mr. Norm wanted to push the performance envelope again. This time he wanted to try a 440 in place of the 383. Approximately 50 cars were built by Dodge. These were the first "M" codes. 1968 "M" codes! HOWEVER, it is not that simple. The 50 were all ordered by Grand-Spaulding. They were built minus engine, and shipped to Hurst-Campbell for fitment of the 440. Then they were shipped to Mr. Norm and these became the GSS. At this point, Mr. Norm would also add anything from his performance catalog to your brand new Dodge, as long as you were paying the price! It was thought that Grand-Spaulding dropped in the 440 into all 50 GSS cars. Not a logistical possibility. At that time, Grand-Spaulding was operating out of a converted gas station with rented buildings and parking lots in the surrounding area to house his bustling new car business. Don't forget his "Dyno Tuning" tune up business was flourishing at that time as well!! Not much room to dedicate to 50 cars needing engine transplants and finishing. Grand Spaulding Dodge did indeed order 20 factory built 440 GTS's from the CO1 batch for his dealership. This may be another reason for the belief that "all" 440 M codes rolled thru Grand Spaulding Dodge.

With that heritage, we can see why the story behind the "factory" 1969 cars becomes confused with the facts of the 1967-1968 cars.

The 1969 GTSports with the 440 came off the factory assembly line in Hamtramck, Michigan as sort of a "mid-year introduction". Sounds simple, right? There were special things that transpired in the creation with these cars. The paperwork and invoices for the earlier cars showed a "H" in the vehicles VIN. Also, the fender tag had "E63". Both the "H" and "E63" signified a 383! Ah, more confusion. But interesting enough, the vehicles regular VIN tag indicated the "M" instead of the invoice's "H". Also, the fender tag (and invoice) indicated "Y39" which stands for "Special Order" and indicates the 440-4 for the A-body. The "Y39" also superceded the "E63" on the fender tag. To add further to the confusion, the "Y39" was replaced with �A13� for the March 2 built batch. See invoice and corresponding fender tag below.

Even the cosmetic difference included the "383" being superceded by a "440"! According to YearOne, the cars were delivered with "440 Four Barrel" decals in the glove compartment to be placed OVER the factory "383 Four Barrel" call-out!! Also, they were ALL equipped with a console shifted TorqueFlite727 (save the room under the hood that would be needed for the four speed linkage), and power brakes and A/C were also not available.

Now, as for the production methods, they were pretty standard for the day, but still had some special handling involved. As these were A-bodies, the "line" was probably not equipped to install 440 engines into the cars, as these were not "standard" (or normal?) on the A-body line. This lead to the cars being produced in "batches". They started with a Order Sequence Number of 900900 for the GTS and ended with 902_ _ _. The 440 'Cudas had Sequence Numbers starting at 920_ _ _. However, even though all the Sequence Numbers were in numerical order, the VIN was in order with overall Dodge production for the Hamtramck plant. Seven (7) batches of GTSs were built, with three (3) batches for the 440 'Cuda. See chart for Scheduled Production Dates.

440 GTS'Cuda 440Schedule Production Dates
C01C01Sunday December 1, 1968
114- -Tuesday January 14, 1969
131- -Friday January 31, 1969
212- -Wednesday February 12, 1969
214- -Friday February 14, 1969
- -302Sunday March 2, 1969
329- -Saturday March 29, 1969
427- -Sunday April 27, 1969
- -518Sunday May 18, 1969

It was first thought that ALL of these cars came off the line like the 1968 GSS cars-minus engine and trans. Then they were shipped to Hurst-Campbell for the 440. This evidently did NOT happen! In Hurst production "biographies", they list all sorts of the vehicles that were modified/finished by Hurst. From the 1968 Hemi S/S Darts and Barracudas, to the S/C Rambler390, the Hurst/Olds, and even a Hurst Jeepster!! They even modified a run of 1500 Belvederes for taxi cab use in New York city by dropping the floor pan a 1 1/2"!. But there is NO MENTION of the 1969 440 GTS/'Cuda in this book at all.

The 440 GTS was not distinguished externally from the other GTSs of that year, except by the small "440 Four Barrel" engine call-out for the hood bulge. It was thought that the "M" codes were all pulled off the main line to a secondary line for finishing. Similar to what the A12 1969 1/2 440-6pk cars with lift off hoods might have had at the Lynch Road plant. But the A12 cars HAD special engines (the GTS 440 was just a regular 440) with magnafluxed and shot-peened parts and practically hand built engines topped off with the 3 Holley carbs. Not to mention the fitting of the fiberglass lift-off hoods. The GTS and 'Cuda looked like every other GTS and 'Cuda on the road. Why would Chrysler invest that time and money into that process??? This would not make sense from a business stand point. Not glamorous, not extraordinary, but sure held some hot surprises for the other musclecars of that era!!!

So there is no myth surrounding the 1969 "M" code GTS. They were built on the regular line. No magical elves hammering away at them in the bowels of Chrysler Engineering. Rare?? You bet. Remember, only 640 were built. We have barely over 20 listed in the GTS Registry. Legendary?? Yes. How else would you describe a 375hp bolted into a 3400lb package??? Heh, heh, heh.....can you say "straight-line performance"?? You probably still hear stories about a big block GTS from "back in the day". Confusion?? Hopefully this clears away some of the fog of time from the history of the 1969 "M" code cars! We hope this brief description helps answer some of the long-standing questions involving the production of the 1969 "M" code GTS.

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Enjoy..
 
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