Religion/Philosophy Thread

[TAFJonathan]

I don't know why, but this might be too personal for some people. It seems ok to me. I think a religion thread would be great...a way for people to discuss and religion and philosophical questions-- you know, the ones you think about while staring at the ceiling when you can't sleep. I'll start the thread with a poll, but it whould be for general religion and philosophical discussion



Happy posting. Let's make this one quality.

 

[TATINEE]

I'm Christian and I'm a member of a church, but I'm sure there are things that the people there believe that I don't. I'd venture to say that a lot of Christians believe that homosexuals are going to hell.. I don't believe that. I don't think that's something you choose to do.. I think people are born that way. No one would willingly choose something that makes people hate them.

 

[Zero]

No Lutheran !

 

[Talentless]

Agnostic, Moderate-Conservative.

 

[Pako]

Originally posted by TATINEE
I'm Christian and I'm a member of a church, but I'm sure there are things that the people there believe that I don't. I'd venture to say that a lot of Christians believe that homosexuals are going to hell.. I don't believe that. I don't think that's something you choose to do.. I think people are born that way. No one would willingly choose something that makes people hate them.

No disrespect to your opinion, but as you stated your's I have to state mine as well.

*It is a belief that someone is born into homosexuality.....I don't buy it.

*Will they go to hell? First off you would have to believe in hell, secondly, in the Bible, angles of the Lord came upon homosexuals and those practicing beastiallity. Heck, God destroyed the entire city of Sodum and Gamora (sp?) because of such practices...

*Do people willingly do things to make people hate them? Sure they do, people do it all the time.... Selfpitty, remorse, selfdestruction, they like pain, kinda twisted, or they just have a spiritualmality....are a few reasons.


Those are my two cents...

 

[TATINEE]

True.. you do have to believe in Hell to begin with. That brings a whole other thing into it.. my church teaches that if you don't believe in Jesus, you can't get into Heaven. I'm not even gonna get into that. Just remember that I said I don't agree with *everything* I'm told.

And yes, there are some people out there who do things on purpose to make people hate them. But do you think there are people who do that, knowing that their lives would be threatened? Maybe.. but not very many.

I'm sure there are also religions that believe that interracial relationships are bad, too. I'll never understand that one, so if there's someone here who feels that way, kindly explain to me why.

 

[TAFJonathan]

Originally posted by Pako


No disrespect to your opinion, but as you stated your's I have to state mine as well.

*It is a belief that someone is born into homosexuality.....I don't buy it.

*Will they go to hell? First off you would have to believe in hell, secondly, in the Bible, angles of the Lord came upon homosexuals and those practicing beastiallity. Heck, God destroyed the entire city of Sodum and Gamora (sp?) because of such practices...

*Do people willingly do things to make people hate them? Sure they do, people do it all the time.... Selfpitty, remorse, selfdestruction, they like pain, kinda twisted, or they just have a spiritualmality....are a few reasons.


Those are my two cents...

Ok...but there is scientific proof that homosexuality is biological in nature.

 

[Magic069]

this thread makes me

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Magic069
this thread makes me

Same here, I think this should be talked about privately people who are not Christian might take offense to some of this stuff, and even devout Christains might take offense. Lets drop it ok

 

[Talentless]

I think Jordan might have expressed an interest in threads like this.

 

[TATINEE]

Originally posted by ZeroCool85


Same here, I think this should be talked about privately people who are not Christian might take offense to some of this stuff, and even devout Christains might take offense. Lets drop it ok

I disagree with this. If someone can't handle this in an adult way, they don't have to read or reply to this thread. I think it's interesting learning about what people believe in and we need to learn to tolerate and appreciate differences in opinions.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by TATINEE


I disagree with this. If someone can't handle this in an adult way, they don't have to read or reply to this thread. I think it's interesting learning about what people believe in and we need to learn to tolerate and appreciate differences in opinions.

I can handle it but everyone on this site is not American or Christian so why discuss the properties of the Christian God and Christian beliefs, would you want an Atheist coming into the thread and saying how there is no god and everything in the Bible is not true, I doubt you would.

 

[TATINEE]

Originally posted by ZeroCool85


I can handle it but everyone on this site is not American or Christian so why discuss the properties of the Christian God and Christian beliefs, would you want an Atheist coming into the thread and saying how there is no god and everything in the Bible is not true, I doubt you would.

We don't have to talk only about Christian beliefs. I'm talking about them b/c that's what I am. Anyone is free to talk about any belief. If an Atheist wants to say any of those things, it's perfectly fine with me. It's only their opinion and like I said before, I like to hear about what people believe, especially if it's different from what I believe.

 

[Pako]

Originally posted by Stealth Viper


Ok...but there is scientific proof that homosexuality is biological in nature.

There's also Scientific proof that we're from Monkeys, yet there's still monkeys swinging in the trees...

Furthermore, homosexuality is NOT biological in nature, but carring oposite traits such as men being femanine or females being maskuline is biological. It's always been my thought, just because you like to dress in womans clothing doesn't mean that you have to be a homosexual. Biblically based, God didn't created man to bed down with man, or beast. He has a pupose, and when we stray from that, we a going directly against His teachings.

Lets see...what else..... Out of curiosity, where in the Bible does it mention Hell? I'm just curious....I was always tought that there is a hell, I mean there's heaven right? I read that, but where does it mention hell? Is the "Lake of Fire" this hell that everyone's talking about?

Please, enlighten me?

This is all very health discussion... Thanks everyone for their honesty!

Religion and Politics are always so heated.... If any views or opinions people are taking offence to, please keep in mind that this is not intended to be attacking anyone person or belief system...

 

[Pako]

Originally posted by TATINEE


I disagree with this. If someone can't handle this in an adult way, they don't have to read or reply to this thread. I think it's interesting learning about what people believe in and we need to learn to tolerate and appreciate differences in opinions.

I totally agree! I will state right now, that I will in no way condem or attack anyone with a different view than my own..... This is good stuff that everyone should feel free to discuss in an adult manner..

Thank you TATINEE!

 

[Mr P]

in scotland and a neigbouring country ireland religion is quite a big thing for some people ! religion clashes between the two main groups catholics and protestants is always in the news and annual marches are always troubled with numerous arrests but it always quietens down until the next event , i personally am classed as a protestant ! but i have no religious beliefs whatsoever i may be classed as a sinner by others for my beliefs but who cares eh ! i dont believe in god or the devil , life after death , coz when we die its over !! no more no less we get 1 and only 1 view of life and we are supposed to make the most of it , too true , a partner and children is the natural way but not always the right way for some ! fair enough leave them to it everybody should be able to make there own choice as long as not directly hurting someone else .
i see my time as short as hell , i'm 30 now and before i know it i'll be 40 and so on.... , but i give religion a big miss for this simple reason ! why pray to a god who will not respond to you and why do we need to have someone to look up to in the 1st place ? i'm satisfied with looking up to my parents and my wife and i will stay this way till its over for me , i would not stop my kids from getting into religion though , if they want to then fair enough , anyway this is my view on religion , not to offend people just to let you's know my thoughts on this sorry it was so long winded but hey look at the length of the bible and thats full of b/s this post is full of truth , well my truth anyway

i'm dreading the hate mail for this but like said by tatinee if people are not mature enough or easily offended you shouldn't have looked in this thread , i'm done cya's

 

[Mr P]

Originally posted by ZeroCool85


I can handle it but everyone on this site is not American or Christian so why discuss the properties of the Christian God and Christian beliefs, would you want an Atheist coming into the thread and saying how there is no god and everything in the Bible is not true, I doubt you would.

i must be that athiest then zero !! :blush:

 

[Viper_Maniac]

Originally posted by TATINEE


I disagree with this. If someone can't handle this in an adult way, they don't have to read or reply to this thread. I think it's interesting learning about what people believe in and we need to learn to tolerate and appreciate differences in opinions.

I totally agree with that. Everyone has opinions and nobody has the right to criticize what another persons' opinion is.

 

[Talentless]

Originally posted by viper_maniac


I totally agree with that. Everyone has opinions and nobody has the right to criticize what another persons' opinion is.

Yes they do, it is trying to impose silence that is wrong.

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by mr persistance
fair enough leave them to it everybody should be able to make there own choice as long as not directly hurting someone else .

You and I must be cut from a similar cloth in this regard.

I don't know if there is a superior being, and I don't know if whatever form that being takes is interested in what we do here.

Whilst I could go into how I think some religious beliefs have been manipulated for some people's own ends, I won't.

I think people are entitled to pursue whatever lifestyle they find makes them happy, on the extremely heavy proviso that what they do must not adversely affect others, and they take responsibility for their actions. I don't believe anyone has the right to discriminate against people on the basis of the lifestyle selections they make.

Whilst not in any regard religious, I fully support anyone who makes the decision to make any form of religion a part of their life, the same as I support anyone who elects not to. I despise anyone who uses any form of religion as a basis on which to harm others.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm only going to get one shot at life. Friends, family and enjoying life is what it's all about - that's why I try to be friendly and even-handed. Make the most of your life - it's not only about your job, your car, your house or your stuff. It's about how you interact with your world.

That's it. That's my contribution to this thread. I'm not going to pass opinion on what others believe, because they're fully entitled to their beliefs.

 

[LoudMusic]

I consider myself a Christian; at least I try to be Christ-like. Isn't that the point? I don't really believe the same things that my friends do ... not even the people I'm in Bible study with. About the only thing I do agree on is that God talks to everyone differently, which is my explanation for my differences in beliefs.

Points that this thread has brought up that I would like to get in on:

A) You have to believe in Hell before you can believe someone can go there - very true. Does the Bible actually mention Hell? I dunno, I'm not a big Bible buff. [A) i)] There is not a single religions that has not split at least once in its history, there are few that have not borrowed from each other. Hell (I believe) was created by early Christians as 'the bad place you go if you're not a Christian' as a tool to help win people to Christ. The early north people of Europe (some call them Vikings) used to fear a physical place they called "Heckla". Heckla was a volcano that villagers would throw the bad people in. Heckla begat Heck, "Go to Heck!", which begat "Go to Hell!". Thus Hell became a fiery place, "fire and brimstone". Another thing the Christians picked up from their Viking friends while they were witnessing to them was the Christmas tree. Vikings believed that the approaching winter equinox was the end of time, as the days grew shorter and the nights grew longer. They would celebrate the beginning of new life after the equinox by brining an evergreen tree into their house and sharing presents with family and friends. The Christians though, "Sweet! We celebrate the birth of our savior about that time ... we'll share!" More tools to witness with ... Christians can be devious (: But back to Hell ... we (my friends and I) have talked before about death, Heaven, and Hell. In several translation of the Bible it is written that man and Satan can only destroy your body - but God can destroy your body and your SOUL. Without a soul, you do not exist in the afterlife. Wait, that doesn't answer the question ... but its good information! (:

B) Homosexuality is bad, see - Mmmmm-K? As it was pointed out before, God destroyed a city of homosexuals and 'beastialiters' (is that a word?). I don't know how well that stands up; he killed lots of people, even good ones that ended up in Heaven. What stands up is that He told His followers to tell them to stop, and they didn't, so he squashed them. "I told you to stop, you didn't, now I am going to remove your existence."

C) I think this thread is great. The people that have something against it obviously need to evaluate their own beliefs.

D) A new topic within this thread ... if your religion is 'active' (seeking members through missionary work) how do you personally witness?

~LoudMusic

[Please ignore my signature for posts in this thread. If you have questions, PLEASE ASK. Someone will answer.]

 

[Schumy]

i am born and raised Roman Catholic (major branch of Christianity) ...... i don't know what to say but that life is confusing and full of uncertainties ....part of me wants to believe in God, Jesus, and Heaven and then a part of me says it's completely ridiculous, but things in life seem to work out too well ......i guess i do believe, but i definitely don't take the Bible "literally" ....like God created everything as we know it today, in 7 days ....anyone who believes this, and there are people, must be totally ignorant towards science for we know this is not true .....i like to think of the Bible as a group of stories to give us a relative idea of the past .......the main idea of "7 days" is that it took "time" ......it was not instant ........i'm a pretty neutral person though and it's the same as extraterrestrial life .......we just don't know .......i guess that's the whole idea of faith ........anyone with any appreciation for science has to believe in the process of evolution ......perhaps God is watching this process and making sure everything runs smoothly like a movie directer .......at my fairly young age that was the most in-depth contribution to this thread that i could compose because i don't feel that i have discovered "who i am" yet

 

[LoudMusic]

Originally posted by Schumy
i am born and raised Roman Catholic (major branch of Christianity) ...... i don't know what to say but that life is confusing and full of uncertainties ....part of me wants to believe in God, Jesus, and Heaven and then a part of me says it's completely ridiculous, but things in life seem to work out too well ......i guess i do believe, but i definitely don't take the Bible "literally" ....like God created everything as we know it today, in 7 days ....anyone who believes this, and there are people, must be totally ignorant towards science for we know this is not true .....i like to think of the Bible as a group of stories to give us a relative idea of the past .......the main idea of "7 days" is that it took "time" ......it was not instant ........i'm a pretty neutral person though and it's the same as extraterrestrial life .......we just don't know .......i guess that's the whole idea of faith ........anyone with any appreciation for science has to believe in the process of evolution ......perhaps God is watching this process and making sure everything runs smoothly like a movie directer .......at my fairly young age that was the most in-depth contribution to this thread that i could compose because i don't feel that i have discovered "who i am" yet

I think a lot of people are trying to say something very similar whenever they are asked. You've done one of the best jobs I've seen so far. I agree with you about God creating the whole world in 7 days. It's meerly an example. I don't remember the story, but somewhere is mentioned "seventy times seven" as being a whole whole lot - it's just an example of a whole bunch. It's a book of stories that teach the way people should act, "Christ-like", even if you're not a Christian. I think the biggest lesson is respect. Similarly 'the golden rule'.

"Finding one's self" ... I'm not sure why, but that whole line of thought has always bothered me. According to that way of thought, I don't know who I am, because other than a few measly goals I don't know what I want to do for the rest of my life. But by my way of thought that means life is just an adventure ... you'll figure it out as you go. I don't think we ever "know ourselves" because we're always changing. Example - I have several friends that used to think they were "all that and a bag of chips", then something major happens (like a friend commiting suicide ... or the WTC Towers being blown up!) and they realize that they were so wrong about themselves. You'll never know who you are, but you can figure out what you like and don't like. Build a foundation of morals and go from there. By the way, it's also ok to change your mind (:

~LoudMusic

 

[vat_man]

Schumy, I think that was rather an eloquent description of your feelings on this matter, and quite an insight - thanks for sharing that. I remember going through a similar philosphical debate - I'm sure my lapsed-Catholic mother encouraged me in questioning the whole 'God' thing.

 

[Schumy]

Originally posted by vat_man
Schumy, I think that was rather an eloquent description of your feelings on this matter, and quite an insight - thanks for sharing that. I remember going through a similar philosphical debate - I'm sure my lapsed-Catholic mother encouraged me in questioning the whole 'God' thing.

my mother a Catholic .... my father an atheist ......they are separated now after 20 years ......i'm lucky if i make it to church on Christmas and Easter .....i used to skip the school Masses with my friends .......i do know that after i leave the church following Mass i feel really good ......i don't know why but i do .....full of life ......i do intend to attend Mass on a regular basis in the near future though b/c i feel that something is missing in my life right now....

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by Schumy
my mother a Catholic .... my father an atheist ......they are separated now after 20 years ......i'm lucky if i make it to church on Christmas and Easter .....i used to skip the school Masses with my friends .......i do know that after i leave the church following Mass i feel really good ......i don't know why but i do .....full of life ......i do intend to attend Mass on a regular basis in the near future though b/c i feel that something is missing in my life right now....

It does do that for some people, and I guess that's why I'm reluctant to criticise it. I remember a very dear mate of mine (from a Catholic background) went through a rough patch when his parents split - he's an immensely practical and down-to-earth bloke - he said he found his faith a great comfort - even though he doesn't attend church or in any way appear to be religious.

That put a different perspective on the religious 'experience' for me, not in terms of my own 'experience', but how it provides a certain something, spiritual if you will, for some people.

I guess I must draw my inspiration and comfort from another source. Buggered if I know what it is, though.

My partner has repeatedly told me one of the things we have in common is being astoundingly shallow, so I guess I'm easily pleased.

 

[Schumy]

oh well .....if you're not involved in a specific religion then you still need to make the most out of your short time here ......i've pretty much arrived at the point where life is starting to pick up the pace a bit and realize how precious it is (2 friends gone over the holidays) .....i think the most important thing is to treat people the way you want to be treated .....have a positive impact on the people that you interact with each day .......that's pretty much all Jesus wants .... "Love your neighbours as you love me" .......all humans have some good and some evil in them .......perhaps God wants us to experience the battle between the two hoping the good will prevail ......i dunno, not trying to bs or anything

 

[vat_man]

I just try to avoid being an arsehole - trying to keep it simple!

 

[Schumy]

Originally posted by vat_man
I just try to avoid being an arsehole - trying to keep it simple!

yeah, that's pretty much it

 

[Pako]

Well...regardless of religious beliefs, everyone has a hole or void that they're trying to fill, a spiritualmality if you will. Some people try to fill it will drugs, alchohol, vgames , religion, food, sex, violence, exercise...you name it, it's been done. And it's been done in for one reason, to fill that void. I grew up in a serious religious back ground, heck, my dad was a Christian minister . . . . .but I have come to the realization that organized religion, as a whole, is necessary to help and guide willing people to a better way of life. Spirituality, on the other hand, is a personal relationship with God. Only you and God can achive that and only God can fill that void. Now some people would say that, well what about Budda, or what about this god or that god, or what about my PS2 that I worship that gives me comfort... Well . . . . to each his own I guess... I for one prefer a personal relationship than the alternative. Is my spiritual situation ideal? Certainly not....I have an abundance of improvement that needs to be done, but find trust and confort knowing that He's there and in control of my life so I don't have to be.... Cause whenever I'm in control....everything just goes to hell (that is if there is a hell ) so anyhow...don't know where all that came from from kudo's!