Religious Tolerance
- Thread starter Danoff
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- swift-bass
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Did you start this "belief" conversation all over again on purpose?
No ...its a valid question to ask someone who thinks a belief can in itself be a danger.
Acting on a belief can be a danger ..or not acting because of a belief can be a danger ..but the belief itself means nothing until it is acted on in some fashion.
- 5,080
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My point is to separate the belief from the behavior. If someone "believes" the rest of the world is his enemy, and all he can do is sit in his room and cry about it, too bad. I'm tolerant. If he actually leads people into violence against his perceived enemies, I become intolerant.
The tolerance obviously has to be mutual, i.e. live and let live. The terrorist fundamental Muslim is intolerant. His efforts to eradicate my lifestyle, indeed my person, should not be tolerated. The fact that he's Muslim no longer enters into it at that point. His view of Islam has been corrupted during his upbringing and teaching to become a justification for a tribal, racist view of the rest of the world. Rather like Klan kids in the 30s, maybe, being taught they were Christians.
The very reason we are atheists is because we think religion is irrational.
Danoff
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rational: adj - proceeding or derived from reason or based on reasoning.
reason: noun - to think or argue in a logical manner.
logic: noun - the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.
I can tell you with certainty that belief in God is not justified by logic.
reason: noun - to think or argue in a logical manner.
logic: noun - the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.
I can tell you with certainty that belief in God is not justified by logic.
Danoff
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Yes, I am a Vulcan. I was born on the planet Vulcan (head for mars, make a right, can't miss it). My birth name was spork, but since McDonald's stole that name, I changed it to danoff - which in Vulanese, means "Most High and Honored One". It also means "Village Idiot", but most people know which one I was going for.
Hope that clears things up... logically.
Hope that clears things up... logically.
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- swift-bass
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Deep Thoughts: By Brad
Often times in school we get into debates similar to this. In most cases, nobody wins because religion is for the most part a "hands-off" topic in most places around the world. It is the loophole to all actions, because if your "god" prescribed it, it gives you the right to do it, obviously. Thats why mothers who kill all five of their kids in the bathtub because "God told them to" get to plead insanity.
IMO, it is education that prevents issues like this from being major problems in the future. From what I have read throughout my years in High School and College, I've pretty much come to decide that religion sucks. Nearly every religion is set up in the same way; Some kind of divine power, a set of rules, and everyone else is wrong. To be honest, I find Christianity to be one of the most corrupt religions in the world, and the Islamic faith isn't any better.
...But I tolerate it. Why? Because quite frankly, I don't care. I suppose that is because I follow the long-dead practice of deism. Sure, there is probably some kind of mystic "power" out there in the universe that controls things one way or another, but it really isn't up to me to know what it is. I prefer to take care of things my way, and I'll get what comes to me in the end. That doesn't mean I go about blowing up non-believers, or sending in hoards of warriors to re-take Jerusalem for the umpteenth time.
I have often felt that religious tolerance is a good thing, and I think that idea should be maintained. But with an education and a firm understanding of the "major" religions in our world today, it becomes harder and harder to "tolerate" the actions of a minority against that of the rather "moderate" majority that probably cares just as much as I do about these things.
...My biggest suggestion? We all learn to be more like the Jedi. At least they didn't quibble about stupid things...
Often times in school we get into debates similar to this. In most cases, nobody wins because religion is for the most part a "hands-off" topic in most places around the world. It is the loophole to all actions, because if your "god" prescribed it, it gives you the right to do it, obviously. Thats why mothers who kill all five of their kids in the bathtub because "God told them to" get to plead insanity.
IMO, it is education that prevents issues like this from being major problems in the future. From what I have read throughout my years in High School and College, I've pretty much come to decide that religion sucks. Nearly every religion is set up in the same way; Some kind of divine power, a set of rules, and everyone else is wrong. To be honest, I find Christianity to be one of the most corrupt religions in the world, and the Islamic faith isn't any better.
...But I tolerate it. Why? Because quite frankly, I don't care. I suppose that is because I follow the long-dead practice of deism. Sure, there is probably some kind of mystic "power" out there in the universe that controls things one way or another, but it really isn't up to me to know what it is. I prefer to take care of things my way, and I'll get what comes to me in the end. That doesn't mean I go about blowing up non-believers, or sending in hoards of warriors to re-take Jerusalem for the umpteenth time.
I have often felt that religious tolerance is a good thing, and I think that idea should be maintained. But with an education and a firm understanding of the "major" religions in our world today, it becomes harder and harder to "tolerate" the actions of a minority against that of the rather "moderate" majority that probably cares just as much as I do about these things.
...My biggest suggestion? We all learn to be more like the Jedi. At least they didn't quibble about stupid things...
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People are corrupt.- 165
Logic: Believing that this earth was created by a god, a higher power. Why is this logical? because everything we see, and know, we see created somehow. As a regular person, that knows nothing about the common facts known to the scientific world, most people believe in a god for all the logical reasons. How did the world get here? well, a big "bang", creating the universe, to the average joe, doesn't make a whole lotta sense, now does it?
Logic can only carry you as far as your knowledge.
If you know that your house is white, and has old white chips falling off, and can see only see white paint underneath, you'll logically believe that house to have always been white.
But what logic cant tell you is that the house was stripped of it's paint. And since you don't know paint can be stripped, you can't even consider it an option.
Logic can only carry you as far as your knowledge.
If you know that your house is white, and has old white chips falling off, and can see only see white paint underneath, you'll logically believe that house to have always been white.
But what logic cant tell you is that the house was stripped of it's paint. And since you don't know paint can be stripped, you can't even consider it an option.
Danoff
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You clearly need to take a course in logic. Most of the things you listed are based on flawed reasoning. I created a thread you might want to check out.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=44785&highlight=logic
- 4,445
- Colorado
- GTP_UnoMOTO
What a mind numbing topic that thread is! Maybe you missed his point intentionally? Maybe you are blinded by your own logic? It sounded to me he was making the point that you need to know where your true starting point is before you can come up with a logical answer. For example. You have a banana. How do you know the banana is true? You of all people don't believe the banana IS! The banana might be false thus creating a flaw in your logic from the very begining.
- 165
Care to make a clear, direct statement, instead of a vague, "you're wrong"?danoff
I thought about this for a while.
I think I came to the conclusion: no religion = no war
This is of course is not 100% true, there will aways be fighting over land, rights etc. (But you have to remember that humanr rights is also closely related to religion).
As for myself, my father is muslim and my mother is christian. I have no religion what so ever. I've tolerated religions, but getting to know the world more and more I see that religion is the problem. Because just one wrong ****ing move made by a religious person can turn the world into hell - its a chain reaction after that.
That move changes the way we live - all of us around the world. You should know how. I dont have to explain.
My father is persian, but we always look at the iranian goverment and say "what the **** are they doing? they could be one of the strongest countires out there".
Yea 2000 - 3000 years of history, just too long ago ,
change one word every 50 years and the story isnt the same as before.
Remember that poster with a dead person and the question "'Why?" written over it?
The answer is religion
I think I came to the conclusion: no religion = no war
This is of course is not 100% true, there will aways be fighting over land, rights etc. (But you have to remember that humanr rights is also closely related to religion).
As for myself, my father is muslim and my mother is christian. I have no religion what so ever. I've tolerated religions, but getting to know the world more and more I see that religion is the problem. Because just one wrong ****ing move made by a religious person can turn the world into hell - its a chain reaction after that.
That move changes the way we live - all of us around the world. You should know how. I dont have to explain.
My father is persian, but we always look at the iranian goverment and say "what the **** are they doing? they could be one of the strongest countires out there".
Yea 2000 - 3000 years of history, just too long ago ,
change one word every 50 years and the story isnt the same as before.
Remember that poster with a dead person and the question "'Why?" written over it?
The answer is religion
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- Maryland, USA
- swift-bass
I tolerate those idiots from Kentucky that call themselves Christians and then protest military funerals. How do you protest a funeral anyway? 
The person is already gone. But they are using their first amendment rights. And as morally wrong as it is, it's not illegal and it's not putting people in harms way.
The same can be said for the Muslim extremists. Except of course, they DO put people in harms way.
I'm really bored of this "don't talk about muslims" thing going around the country. Politicians tend to go out of their way to make sure they don't put the entire religion of Islam down when talking of the terrorists. Well,the fact of the matter is they are muslim just like those country idiots are Christians. I don't consider them christians, but for all intensive purposes they are.
The thing that blows my mind is what Danoff is talking about in his original post. We quite literally tolerate a religion that is training people to destroy other religions and cultures. It's stupid, counterproductive, and unfair to Amercian citizens no matter what there spiritual preference is.
So, why are we tolerating this again?
The person is already gone. But they are using their first amendment rights. And as morally wrong as it is, it's not illegal and it's not putting people in harms way.The same can be said for the Muslim extremists. Except of course, they DO put people in harms way.
I'm really bored of this "don't talk about muslims" thing going around the country. Politicians tend to go out of their way to make sure they don't put the entire religion of Islam down when talking of the terrorists. Well,the fact of the matter is they are muslim just like those country idiots are Christians. I don't consider them christians, but for all intensive purposes they are.
The thing that blows my mind is what Danoff is talking about in his original post. We quite literally tolerate a religion that is training people to destroy other religions and cultures. It's stupid, counterproductive, and unfair to Amercian citizens no matter what there spiritual preference is.
So, why are we tolerating this again?
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- Frankfort, KY
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- FoolKiller1979
Wow, this is truly astounding.
This ranks with all the other blamings of evil in society on things.
Religion does not cause war, but it does make a convenient excuse for humans to go to war. The dead body on the poster was killed by a person, but they may have used religion as their reasoning.
Do you honestly believe that if there were no religion that the world would be in more peace and the hatred and anger that is a natural part of humanity would suddenly not exist and we wouldn't have another reason to go to war?
Religion makes a convenient excuse for people who are too angry or too ignorant to see that killing is not the way to do things. Whether it is a suicide bomber relying on his religion to help him justify his actions or it is the leader of a terrorist organization warping religion to convince people it will be justified, it is the men, not the religion, that leads them to war.
I am tired of hearing how money, religion, guns, or whatever is the cause of all forms of evil and violence in this world. Evil resides in the hearts of men and nowhere else. Everything else has just become a tool of men.
If you find something men are doing to be disgusting then blame the men doing it, not the weapon in their hand, the cash in their pocket, or the idea in their head. None of those things made those men do what they do.
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- FoolKiller1979
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" No religion" ....would actually encourage more war.... IMO...the world will forever be run by the strong over the weak. Its just human nature, as is the urge to use whatever tool available to control other humans .
We just seem to be wired that way . Even sports is " controlled " warfare or practice for war. Humans are competing for survival against each other and its survival of the fittest. JUST because we in the west have it so easy...BECUASE we have the biggest guns and don't have to work as hard to survive ...doesn't mean in other parts of the world , people are not beating each other with clubs over resources and living space.
History proves it. An American stripped of all his goodies is just as savage as an Arab with no goodies that wants some .
We just try to act " civilized" . But we are no more or less civilized than anyone else.
Murder rate for Phila this year so far is 360 something or more...mostly over " stuff " .
At least in the desert with limited resourses and water / food per square mile...yu have a really good reason to fight over STUFF...survival being the main one.
Whats our excuse ?
50 to 60 thousand Americans will kill each other over " stuff" . Not to protect the " goat herd" from poachers either.
yet we have the BALLS to chime in about a RELIGION teaching others to be killers....
I bet if you add up every person killed by a Muslim in the WORLD it wont equal the murder rate in the US for a year .
Meh...we dont nEED religion to kill each other...any old excuse will do .
We just seem to be wired that way . Even sports is " controlled " warfare or practice for war. Humans are competing for survival against each other and its survival of the fittest. JUST because we in the west have it so easy...BECUASE we have the biggest guns and don't have to work as hard to survive ...doesn't mean in other parts of the world , people are not beating each other with clubs over resources and living space.
History proves it. An American stripped of all his goodies is just as savage as an Arab with no goodies that wants some .
We just try to act " civilized" . But we are no more or less civilized than anyone else.
Murder rate for Phila this year so far is 360 something or more...mostly over " stuff " .
At least in the desert with limited resourses and water / food per square mile...yu have a really good reason to fight over STUFF...survival being the main one.
Whats our excuse ?
50 to 60 thousand Americans will kill each other over " stuff" . Not to protect the " goat herd" from poachers either.
yet we have the BALLS to chime in about a RELIGION teaching others to be killers....
I bet if you add up every person killed by a Muslim in the WORLD it wont equal the murder rate in the US for a year .
Meh...we dont nEED religion to kill each other...any old excuse will do .
