Renown Tuning ™ WTC 3

[Terronium-12]

Accounted for.

We now have seventeen participants, and this is without counting those whom I think will show up at some point.

 

[Destinkeys]

Call me crazy, but you make it sound as if I haven't done this before. I've owned all three major retail copies (360, PS3, and PC) of Shift and other than the discomfort I had with the DS3, the times were exactly identical and if there was an advantage of some kind it was handled in a respectable manner.

And, the different CPU architectures between the three platforms has no relevance to what you're assuming because, well, processing power just doesn't work that way.

In which case, can you account for the disparity of times between platforms? Are ALL the good drivers on one platform, or would the world-wide participation of tens of thousands of players on three different platforms tend to even things out..? I can assure you, on the NFS leaderboards, there was a DISTINCT difference between some tracks depending on platform.

You might take into consideration that most of the fastest lap times were set on wheels (at least on the PC platform which was the only one to track controller types), which you did not test thoroughly...

 

[Terronium-12]

You're beginning to remind me of someone.

Do you have any hard evidence of what you're claiming, especially the bit pertaining to me? Otherwise, I'm going to politely ask that you take this elsewhere and keep it out of my thread.

Oh, and just for the effort, you do realize the second you introduce lap times from the original Shift on the PC your entire argument falls to shambles, right?

 

[Imari]

Are you referring to the fact that most of the fastest lap times are Xbox set with the FXX? Which was unavailable to PS3 owners, who had to try and keep up with the LP640?

If you're referring to something else, can you give us a link to see? It sounds interesting.

 

[boxox]

Before this gets out of hand

This is theoretically possible and does happen on PCs if Shift is made unhappy to any extent. There are some cases where the thread containing things like particles/HUD/game timer can continue while the physx/main 3d renderer containing thread stalled, so for example, if one person hitches (thread execution order screws up/uncached data gets hit/MSE starts tearing through the hard drive looking for false positives) you could end up with the game physics pausing while the timer continued and get a different time. Sometimes this happens to an extent that isn't noticeable visually (eg. underneath the in-game HUD timers precision).

 

[Zeeco_9]

Count me in please 👍

 

[RomKnight]

Expectations of what, that we were a bunch of slackers?

The comment was about me. I hoped not be the last in the line... now I don't know

I'm still on BTW

 

[Destinkeys]

I'm sorry that the leaderboards for Shift 1 are currently down, or I would point you to them. But times from XBox and PS3 were listed independently of each other there, and I CAN assure you, there were very noticeable differences between the platforms. Well over a second, in the case of Road America. Given that the top thirty or so lap times on just ONE platform were usually within a few tenths of a second apart, over a second or more between one platform and another is quite significant.

Don't get so bent out of shape, T-12... I am just the messenger. Mind you, I AM somewhat surprised you never visited EA's Shift Leaderboard http://nfs.needforspeed.com/web/nfs/mynfs/shft/leaderboards?ns=nfsps2-pc to compare times. Yes, I know it's down now, but at least I went there. And found noticeable differences between platforms.

Do you have anything MORE than your subjective experience for your unshakable faith in your position? Because this site USED to be an irrefutable site for proof that things were NOT identical between platforms.

 

[Imari]

I'm sorry that the leaderboards for Shift 1 are currently down, or I would point you to them. But times from XBox and PS3 were listed independently of each other there, and I CAN assure you, there were very noticeable differences between the platforms. Well over a second, in the case of Road America. Given that the top thirty or so lap times on just ONE platform were usually within a few tenths of a second apart, over a second or more between one platform and another is quite significant.

Don't get so bent out of shape, T-12... I am just the messenger. Mind you, I AM somewhat surprised you never visited EA's Shift Leaderboard http://nfs.needforspeed.com/web/nfs/mynfs/shft/leaderboards?ns=nfsps2-pc to compare times. Yes, I know it's down now, but at least I went there. And found noticeable differences between platforms.

Do you have anything MORE than your subjective experience for your unshakable faith in your position? Because this site USED to be an irrefutable site for proof that things were NOT identical between platforms.

http://www.nfsunlimited.net/shift/leaderboards/28-Road-America.html

Comparing things that are not alike is not acceptable. FXX vs LP640/Zonda R is not fair.

 

[Terronium-12]

Why would I visit EA's leaderboard for something that doesn't immediately pertain to what this competition entails? Your argument is seemingly based on vehicular differences (disparities, if you will) that vary from one platform to the next. Yes, there were Ferrari's for the 360 release which was my primary choice at the time...was there ever a round consisting of Ferrari's? No, because that DLC was console-specific. Everyone uses the same car, same upgrades, the same tune, all on the same track, under the same conditions, same time of day, etc, etc....

I'm not going to be over-analytical with the rules especially when a good deal of the people already on the list I've raced with already and know they're not dishonest. Which is something you seem to be outright ignoring. If you want, I can totally distrust any time you submit. If you have no intention of participating then what concern is it to you who cheats and who doesn't?

 

[Destinkeys]

http://www.nfsunlimited.net/shift/leaderboards/28-Road-America.html

Comparing things that are not alike is not acceptable. FXX vs LP640/Zonda R is not fair.

Guys! I am NOT comparing the fastest lap. I am comparing the fastest lap ON THE SAME CAR.

PS3.... Road America LP640 Works.

1:49.269

XBox.. Road America LP640 Works

1:52.201

This seems to indicate a platform difference. How else can it be explained? Until the Exotic DLC came out, the LP640 Works was the fastest car for BOTH platforms, and if what you say were true, one would expect similar lap times.

3 seconds is a LIFETIME in racing terms!

Terronium, I am NOT saying anyone is cheating. Never have. I am just trying to point out observed differences in platform times that I noticed LONG ago when going to NFS's Leaderboards.

 

[RomKnight]

I would explain it this way: NOT the same driver....

 

[ussr]

1. Not just the same driver but,
2. not the same controller, wheel on ps3 against pad on x360
3. not the same players skills,

clearly guy who used ps3 had played on wheel and the other did not have any choice and used a pad, that it the mystery disadvantage. Using wheel you have total control over a car that let's you make better lap times.

 

[Terronium-12]

Let's keep it on topic folks.

I really don't want to lock this up until I'm done planning the first round, but I will if certain people keep persisting with a subject that quite frankly doesn't (and has not) affect(ed) this event.

 

[Destinkeys]

Look, I'm not worried one way or the other, but I'll try to address the last few comments...

The EA Leaderboards were lap times by EVERYBODY that played the game. Literally thousands of us, on each platform. No record is kept by EA of which controller is used, but if you went to WRC (I think that was the website) that tracked PC lap times by using a piece of software piggybacking the game, the vast majority of best times were set with a wheel.

It's fair to assume that the same vast majority of lap time leaders would be wheel drivers for the console records. Then, you have to factor in that these lap times are the top 100 or so out of THOUSANDS playing the game, so, once again, it's kind of difficult to assume that ALL the fast drivers were on the PS3. Which is what you would have to do, to explain why a PS3 LP640 lap time is three seconds faster than an XBox LP640 time. If someone COULD have got an LP640 lap time into the 1:49 mark, it would have gotten on the board. In fact, it would be right there in with the FXX times....

I'm sorry you are having so much trouble wrapping your minds around this fact, and I'm sorry if it dispels long held beliefs about console parity, but the figures are up there. You simply can't deny them, or fob them off on 'one guy faster than another' because there are THIRTY guys faster than the XBox players.

I refuse to believe that PS3 players are any intrinsically better drivers than XBox. But hey! I could be wrong...

 

[Northstar]

The 360 has the FXX, if someone really wants to get on top of the leaderboard and have a 360 they aren't even going to bother with anything else. Therefor fewer people will try and tune it to be faster than the FXX. However on the PS3 that is the fastest car so people only have that option to get to the top so they will spend more time tuning it.

Than you have to consider that the PS3 has better wheel support than the 360 which basically has the crappy Xbox wheel or the expensive Fanatec wheel. Really a good wheel makes all the difference compared to a bad one.

That site also doesn't prove anything since it's only people on that particular site.

 

[Terronium-12]

Leave it alone Justin.

He'll just keep going on and on about something he refuses to believe.

 

[Destinkeys]

I believe the refusal is coming from you guys..!

Look, maybe you didn't, but I DID regularly check EA's full, unexpurgated Leaderboards when they were up. And, LONG before the Ferrari Pack came out, and everyone was running identical cars, there WAS a good 2+ seconds difference between PS3 and XBox Road America (which I consider one of the tiny few completely 'uncheatable' tracks in Shift and always used it as a reference).

Look, I hate to get into a flamewar with you guys, it's NOT me insulting you to make a point. I am the one with the EVIDENCE. You are calling me a liar if you don't believe that there WAS a big gap between lap times. Let's face it... If an LP640 COULD do a 1:49, it would be sitting there in the middle of the FXX times. That the BEST anyone can currently do Road America is three seconds off the pace ought to tell you SOMETHING.

I am sorry, but at this point, if you are unwilling to trust the evidence of your own eyes, and willing to call me a liar when I assure you that the full EA leaderboards (they tracked the top 1000) confirmed what you are NOW seeing, you are the ones unwilling to believe. And belief without evidence is religion.

Belief with data to back it up is SCIENCE.

 

[Terronium-12]

Yeah. Just keep on going.

 

[Destinkeys]

You declaring a fatwah?

Sorry to mess with your religion.

I guess I just don't like being called a liar.

 

[Terronium-12]

So, now that that's taken care of (thanks, Scaff (?)) we can resume the original purpose of the thread.

EDIT: Shameless burn - Now he's 55 and banned.

 

[ussr]

18 participants, and i wonder how many would quit from competition after first round And how many will last to last round.

T12, do you know Office Excel? Could we see any clear version of table with names and points something like that? Would you consider add that kind of table to first post instead simple lists.

 

[Terronium-12]

I'm not very savvy when it comes to visual presentations in circumstances like these, if you've got something then by all means offer it up and I'll gladly use it. 👍

As for how many are going to quit and how many will make it to the end, if the previous two WTC's are any indication it will be exactly the same when it ends, as it began.

 

[RomKnight]

I'll stay. Someone needs to be last

And why quit having fun?

 

[Terronium-12]

Check the OP for some important information (give it a few minutes as I haven't written it yet), but I'll have my copy first thing in the morning.

 

[V12Engine]

As for how many are going to quit and how many will make it to the end, if the previous two WTC's are any indication it will be exactly the same when it ends, as it began.

Thats not entirely true!

I had one question about rules that i can't figure it out. It's rule 11.

11. Failure to submit proof of your time during a time attack event will result in a 0.250 time penalty. [Likely to be re-edited]

Is that means i have to record my lap time in camcorder, or make a picture of my TV and accordingly to rule 9. I've must send it to you (via PM).

Would not be better if we could post our best lap times and then when round is over we could clearly see who was fastest. If i could see what is the lap time of any other competitors then i could try to beat it. It's sometimes hard to compete against myself. It's better if we could see how others drive.

I just want to know this little thing, proof of lap time and posting them in forum or just send to you the best one, again with proof on video or picture??

 

[ussr]

I think it's brilliant.

I haven't compete like this ever before.

Just try to imagine, squeezing every inch from the car not knowing how competition is doing and other way around.

You will know after results will be posted, kind of evil thing to do T-12, what a master mind you have there!!!

But as for proof of times i would like to know also what you mean by that.

 

[Terronium-12]

I assure you both that everything will be ironed out in a couple of hours.

 

[Terronium-12]

3 hour double post FTW!

Anyway, after I'm done playing, the OP will undergo some changes. Things will be explained further, elaborated upon, and added.

 

[pgagoober]

If there is still space I'd like to take part (at least in the time-trial events).

BadManTurismo (PSN - is this what will be used for Unleashed also or will I need to create an EA user?)