Rollcages... HELP!

[FormulaGT]

There's no visual indication of installing a front splitter on your car either when you add a wing in the GT auto shop, but you get one.

Alright, starting an argument was not the point of my post. But thanks anyway.... Now we know that PD aren't completely accurate with the visiuals.

FormulaGT

 

[SavageEvil]

First of all, I only used the increase rigidity option on a few cars (five in all IIRC, and I got rid of them all and replaced them), just to try it out, and the R8 was also an experiment as such. I can tell you I had no problems with the R8 until the chassis was worn, that is when the trouble started, just like on all other cars I have tried the option on. The increased rigidity does enduce some understeer, but that is easily amended.

Secondly, the so called "purpose built race cars" are just not set up correctly by PD, so I always set them up properly. The "standard setup" provided by PD, is too hard, too understeery and the gearing is usually too long or too short, and the brakes are just not right either.
This means, that if I buy the increase rigidity option, I would not notice the increased understeer too much, since I set the cars up myself anyway. Of course I see that I need to apply a slightly different suspension setup than normally, but that is a minor issue anyway.

Third, I recommend you to drive your Ford GT until the "rigidity refreshment plan" option shows up, and apply it. Your car will most likely be screwed beyond repair.

I've done that already, it still handles the same as when I first applied it. Maybe it's your game that's glitching on the rigidity refresh, when the roll cage is added.

PD race car setup are a default setting for neutral handling, in real life the car is set to a drivers liking, there is a reason you can fiddle with most everything. Hey all race cars are understeery, it's a built in thing, i do believe there is a safety reason for this, as it would be highly dangerous for a race car to be oversteer biased.

Something I still do not get, why do you want to add a more rigid roll cage to a race car? If it's understeering, tinker with the stabilizers(loose front, tight rear=oversteer). When you chassis gets worn, that is when you will get a host of stability and high speed braking issues with race type cars. I will test out your problem myself with a brand new race car. This is just strange and intriguing to me.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

I've done that already, it still handles the same as when I first applied it. Maybe it's your game that's glitching on the rigidity refresh, when the roll cage is added.

No, I´ve read about others having the same problem, so it´s not a glitch in my copy.

PD race car setup are a default setting for neutral handling, in real life the car is set to a drivers liking, there is a reason you can fiddle with most everything. Hey all race cars are understeery, it's a built in thing, i do believe there is a safety reason for this, as it would be highly dangerous for a race car to be oversteer biased.

Well, PD´s setup is in no way neutral. Infact, I find their default settings to be very bad, and most things need to be corrected. Brakes, suspension, differentials, gearing, you name it.
And racecars are, au contraire, setup to oversteer just enough, since that is faster through a turn than understeer (a totally neutral handling is of course the best, but that is very hard to achive on a track with corners ). Most roadlegal cars are however set up to understeer for the same reason you mension.

Something I still do not get, why do you want to add a more rigid roll cage to a race car? If it's understeering, tinker with the stabilizers(loose front, tight rear=oversteer). When you chassis gets worn, that is when you will get a host of stability and high speed braking issues with race type cars. I will test out your problem myself with a brand new race car. This is just strange and intriguing to me.

This may surprise you, but I´m a quite experienced tuner (check out my signature), and I know what I´m doing in most cases. And like I said, the R8 was an experiment that proved to be a mistake, from wich I learned.
For your own tests, I recommend you to use a light racecar, with a pretty stiff chassis to begin with, and if you don´t want to destroy any of the highprice cars, I recommend a DTM or JGTC car, or the easy-to-come-by Mercedes CLK-GTR.

 

[Scaff]

And racecars are, au contraire, setup to oversteer just enough, since that is faster through a turn than understeer (a totally neutral handling is of course the best, but that is very hard to achive on a track with corners ). Most roadlegal cars are however set up to understeer for the same reason you mension.

Now thats a personal thing, how a race car is set-up is very much dependent on the driver. As such your statement of 'oversteer just enough, since that is faster through a turn than understeer' may well be true for you, but not for everyone. I personally do like a small anmount of initial oversteer for slower corners, but far prefer slight understeer onthe limit for higher speed corners.

In the real world every road car I have ever driver is set-up for initial understeer , normally well below the actual grip limit of the tyres. This may well then transfer to oversteer depending one the car and what the driver does.

I would however totally agree that the default settings from PD are almost totally unsuitab;e for anything.

Regards

Scaff

 

[SavageEvil]

I beg to differ on the default setups in GT4, they are quite easy to get into. If you ever entered a liscence test you know it's quite easy to get the hang of. It's quite balanced, but many of us have styles and we tend to adjust to suit our method of driving, bu you can't say that the default setting isn't useful, it's quite the opposite. More like middle of the road setting, you tune as you see fit, it would never be right if the cars came set how you wanted it, someone else would have a differing opinion.

 

[Dave A]

They're pretty easy to drive with stock settings sure, but they are still far from ideal, you can get the car to corner faster, and more stable at the same time with your own settings, with the stock settings you'll never compete in a GT mode based WLR race that's for sure. They are good enough to win races with so they're good enough for people who don't want to get into tinkering with the settings, but you can get so much more out of the cars if you know how.

 

[SavageEvil]

They're pretty easy to drive with stock settings sure, but they are still far from ideal, you can get the car to corner faster, and more stable at the same time with your own settings, with the stock settings you'll never compete in a GT mode based WLR race that's for sure. They are good enough to win races with so they're good enough for people who don't want to get into tinkering with the settings, but you can get so much more out of the cars if you know how.

That's what I was getting at, eventhough the others seem to come off as if the stock settings are that terrible, they aren't. They give you basic control, not too much of anything. Thats the biggest part of GT4, tuning the car to get more out of it. Casuals will just pick up and play, gear heads will delve into the game to get more out of their machine.

 

[SirBerra]

I'd like to change my opinion on adding a rollcage for more rigidity. I was WRONG just to throw a rollcage into any car without driving or testing the vehicle.

I discovered a number of my cars uneven tire wear problems were due to adding in a rollcage. That rollcage either stiffens them too much or stiffens them wrong. Some of my LMP cars and even smaller sports cars had even tire wear until I mucked them up with a rollcage. I haven't really noticed understeer problems with adding a rollcage, but that's because I'm probably not perceptive enough to notice any minor differences.

I've been comparing duplicate cars with and without rollcages and this is why I'm no longer throwing in a rollcage just because I can afford to. Once the rollcage is added, there doesn't seem to be any amount of suspension fiddling that can re-adjust the tire wear problem. And unfortunately, the rollcage can't be removed and only purchasing a new car will solve that problem.

Most of my endurance racers had rollcages installed due to my guessing that they'd hold up longer (that the handling would remain proper). I'd rather just do extra chassis refreshes and leave the rollcages out from now on. I'm not sure if chassis refreshes last longer with a rollcage added. That's something I'd have to test in an endurance race with duplicate cars. I've got multiples of most LMP cars so I'll keep some with rollcages and some without rollcages. Maybe some cars do handle better or get better tire wear with a rollcage, but only testing individual cars will confirm that.