Ronalds Reviews (current: Praianos' AMG)
- Thread starter Ronald6
- 198 comments
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- 1,494
- Portland / Or /
- Barefoot_Driver
Gamerdog6483 / Lamborghini Murcielago LP 670-4 Superveloce '09
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7467524#post7467524
Stage 1 : Base Model
641hp, 1565kg, 571pp @ 0 miles
Sports Hard Tyres
To make it easier I will split the three stages of my review into three separate posts. If this works well I'll continue to use this method.
Here we go...
Trial Mountain: 1.36.875
I went from obnoxious over-steer (the base MR2) to vulgar under-steer. It's slightly better after the front tyres heat up. It's painfully obvious that the front tyres take the brunt of the workload. It will take me several laps to change my driving style to match this car.
Instead of "the bull" I dub this Base Model "The Vulgar Unicorn."
First gear tops out at 63-67mph, and is definitely a racing gear. Because of the massive HP/Torque its easy to forget to keep the car in the power-band.
Turn in is precise but it's hard to get the car to rotate more than 30-35° without seriously upsetting the cars attitude.
Trail-breaking is a must at the entrance to any complex, but start breaking early to put the weight forward before you start to turn.
I don't think this is the best track for this car. It's too big, too wide. This VU needs room to run.
I almost got my best time on my final lap but miffed the last downhill left turning corner. After 8 laps the tyres were at 70% tread. Best time on lap 3. I need more time to adjust.
Deep Forest:1:23.498
Ok, so I need to treat it less like an old prom date and more like a pet velociraptor (sp?). The excessive HP makes rocketing down the straights easy but will make breaking earlier a necessity. The power doesn't really help rotate the car, power over-steer is difficult to induce and, so far, has been unpredictable.
Finding a line through the first tunnel S-complex feels unnatural and spotting the switch point is hopeless for me right now.
The longer corners are easier, just power through as smoothly as I can with the under-steer.
The double left horseshoe after the last bridge is my nemesis. Breaking early, very early, is difficult to do and still rotate the car correctly because of the right hand false entry.
Autumn Ring: 1:24.699
Lol. A bull raging through a china shop.
This track has helped me come to grips with the cars needed breaking points and rotation techniques.
The long S complex at the beginning of the track requires much more than simple lift-off over-steer. Casual inputs are scoffed at by the VU. You must grab it by the danglies and command it with abrupt inputs when needed.
Unfortunately I have developed a pinched nerve or something that is making it difficult to turn my head and work my right shoulder. I'm done for the day. Time for the wife and kids, then work early tomorrow morning. Hope to update after that.
To be continued...
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7467524#post7467524
Stage 1 : Base Model
641hp, 1565kg, 571pp @ 0 miles
Sports Hard Tyres
To make it easier I will split the three stages of my review into three separate posts. If this works well I'll continue to use this method.
Here we go...
Trial Mountain: 1.36.875
I went from obnoxious over-steer (the base MR2) to vulgar under-steer. It's slightly better after the front tyres heat up. It's painfully obvious that the front tyres take the brunt of the workload. It will take me several laps to change my driving style to match this car.
Instead of "the bull" I dub this Base Model "The Vulgar Unicorn."
First gear tops out at 63-67mph, and is definitely a racing gear. Because of the massive HP/Torque its easy to forget to keep the car in the power-band.
Turn in is precise but it's hard to get the car to rotate more than 30-35° without seriously upsetting the cars attitude.
Trail-breaking is a must at the entrance to any complex, but start breaking early to put the weight forward before you start to turn.
I don't think this is the best track for this car. It's too big, too wide. This VU needs room to run.
I almost got my best time on my final lap but miffed the last downhill left turning corner. After 8 laps the tyres were at 70% tread. Best time on lap 3. I need more time to adjust.
Deep Forest:1:23.498
Ok, so I need to treat it less like an old prom date and more like a pet velociraptor (sp?). The excessive HP makes rocketing down the straights easy but will make breaking earlier a necessity. The power doesn't really help rotate the car, power over-steer is difficult to induce and, so far, has been unpredictable.
Finding a line through the first tunnel S-complex feels unnatural and spotting the switch point is hopeless for me right now.
The longer corners are easier, just power through as smoothly as I can with the under-steer.
The double left horseshoe after the last bridge is my nemesis. Breaking early, very early, is difficult to do and still rotate the car correctly because of the right hand false entry.
Autumn Ring: 1:24.699
Lol. A bull raging through a china shop.
This track has helped me come to grips with the cars needed breaking points and rotation techniques.
The long S complex at the beginning of the track requires much more than simple lift-off over-steer. Casual inputs are scoffed at by the VU. You must grab it by the danglies and command it with abrupt inputs when needed.
Unfortunately I have developed a pinched nerve or something that is making it difficult to turn my head and work my right shoulder. I'm done for the day. Time for the wife and kids, then work early tomorrow morning. Hope to update after that.
To be continued...
Last edited:
- 1,494
- Portland / Or /
- Barefoot_Driver
Gamerdog6483 / Lamborghini Murcielago LP 670-4 Superveloce '09
Stage 2 : Modded Model
823hp, 1268kg, 633pp @ 50.1 miles (no oil change yet)
Sports Hard Tyres
I added everything in the tuning menu - tranny and LSD. I added all available areo parts. I painted it from the stock Arancio Atlas to GamerDogs Rosso Corsa (I had to buy a California to get the paint chip.) and painted the new wheels the stock color. It looks totally BA.
Trial Mountain: 1:33.739
With the extra horses and less weight I thought the car would try to kill me on every corner. Not true! It actually produces noticeable and consistent over-steer on the throttle which makes it easier to control than its Base Model. Now tries to kill me only on half the corners.
Deep Forest: 1:20.787
Consistent over-steer again makes this much easier than the Base Model. Break early!
Autumn Ring: 1:23.519
Still controllable. Its almost easier to drive casually than to give it all shes got, and the lap times are better too. The car never really reaches its potential on this track, or the others either. I think only an oval would do. It's got about 9 times (Ferris Bueller anyone?) the stopping distance as a Caterham Fireblade. Nine times!
Does anyone actually enjoy this kind of car? Not me. Time to tune up.
Because I test using continuity and tyre wear on I'm only able to get 4 to 8 laps in before I need to pit. This car eats through its tyres.
On RS tyres:
Trial Mountain: 1:22.497
This thing eats tyres. Two laps and 20% through them. I had to pit just before lap 2 ended. I'll cold lap the tyres to warmth them hot lap on 4. The massive traction hides alot of the squirlyness of the base model, as long as I keep it within it's limits it will stay in track.
Ok, after 8 laps and three pit stops it's almost fun.
If you're not trying to hot lap and keep the throttle and breaks at ten percent or less then you're fine. It's easy to control the cars attitude with just 10%.
Hot lapping is a different story. Try to push through a corner and you can watch the tread disappear.
Elevation changes or anything that will lift the car off the ground ir the cars bane. It takes the car too long at the speeds its traveling to recover.
Deep Forest: 1:11.452
The camber and elevation changes are surprisingly easier to handle on this track, the speeds are just slow enough not to send it flying. At least when 'sporting around.' At hot lap speeds some of the tiny elevation changes will be unavoidable. Be prepared to earn your wings.
Autumn Ring: 1:13.703
At these low speeds the car doesn't get a chance to get too out if control. The RS tyres make the balance feel much more stable.
Stage 2 : Modded Model
823hp, 1268kg, 633pp @ 50.1 miles (no oil change yet)
Sports Hard Tyres
I added everything in the tuning menu - tranny and LSD. I added all available areo parts. I painted it from the stock Arancio Atlas to GamerDogs Rosso Corsa (I had to buy a California to get the paint chip.) and painted the new wheels the stock color. It looks totally BA.
Trial Mountain: 1:33.739
With the extra horses and less weight I thought the car would try to kill me on every corner. Not true! It actually produces noticeable and consistent over-steer on the throttle which makes it easier to control than its Base Model. Now tries to kill me only on half the corners.
Deep Forest: 1:20.787
Consistent over-steer again makes this much easier than the Base Model. Break early!
Autumn Ring: 1:23.519
Still controllable. Its almost easier to drive casually than to give it all shes got, and the lap times are better too. The car never really reaches its potential on this track, or the others either. I think only an oval would do. It's got about 9 times (Ferris Bueller anyone?) the stopping distance as a Caterham Fireblade. Nine times!
Does anyone actually enjoy this kind of car? Not me. Time to tune up.
Because I test using continuity and tyre wear on I'm only able to get 4 to 8 laps in before I need to pit. This car eats through its tyres.
On RS tyres:
Trial Mountain: 1:22.497
This thing eats tyres. Two laps and 20% through them. I had to pit just before lap 2 ended. I'll cold lap the tyres to warmth them hot lap on 4. The massive traction hides alot of the squirlyness of the base model, as long as I keep it within it's limits it will stay in track.
Ok, after 8 laps and three pit stops it's almost fun.
If you're not trying to hot lap and keep the throttle and breaks at ten percent or less then you're fine. It's easy to control the cars attitude with just 10%.
Hot lapping is a different story. Try to push through a corner and you can watch the tread disappear.
Elevation changes or anything that will lift the car off the ground ir the cars bane. It takes the car too long at the speeds its traveling to recover.
Deep Forest: 1:11.452
The camber and elevation changes are surprisingly easier to handle on this track, the speeds are just slow enough not to send it flying. At least when 'sporting around.' At hot lap speeds some of the tiny elevation changes will be unavoidable. Be prepared to earn your wings.
Autumn Ring: 1:13.703
At these low speeds the car doesn't get a chance to get too out if control. The RS tyres make the balance feel much more stable.
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- 1,494
- Portland / Or /
- Barefoot_Driver
Gamerdog6483 / Lamborghini Murcielago LP 670-4 Superveloce '09
Stage 3 : Tuned
834hp, 1268kg, 638pp @ 133.9 miles (no oil change yet)
Sports Hard Tyres
Trial Mountain: 1:32.850
Much more fun and controllable. Vast improvement. Even with the sports hard tyres I have better stability than the racing softs. Not better times mind you, just better control.
Breaking early is still a must but not nearly as chancy as the Modded Model.
Throttle produces steady over-steer, but be warned: changing the degree of turning past 35° or so (as it feels to me) is difficult. The uphill S-complex is difficult to take at the limit because the car can't keep up.
The tyres are lasting much longer, perhaps four times as long.
Deep Forest: 1:19.877
Again: vast improvement.
Very stable with very predictable turning arc. Very predictable turning arc.
This is my conversation with the car. Anyone remember the scene in 'Don't mess with the Zohan' where Rob Schneider and the Phantom were talking on the phone?
First corner:
Me (as Rob): "I want you to break this much."
Car (as Phanton): "No, I slow this much."
Next corner:
Me: "Turn this much."
Car: "No, I turn this amount instead."
Me: "I'll turn the wheel more."
Car: "No, I still turn this amount instead."
Me: "I uncoil gently."
Car: "I no care."
At least the tyres are lasting much longer. I don't have to take a hot lap, then pit every time.
Autumn Ring: 1:23.766
Much harder to control on this track. The turning limit and slow (relative to the track) response of the suspension for attitude changes makes navigating very difficult.
Breaking must be done early, very early. Any trail-breaking produces under-steer, and this car has enough problems rotating enough as it is.
When 'Sporting' around it is quite fun. Over power the mid-corner to rotate and use the massive power to shoot off. But it's hardly the fastest method.
On RS tyres:
Trial Mountain: 1:24.302
Matador! This bull is an excellent ride. The time difference between Tuned and Modded is more my driving than the tune, I believe. Probably due to more confidence in the breaks leading to more trail-breaking instead of throttle steering.
Breaking distance is much more reasonable and trail-breaking, as mentioned, is much more stable and doesn't lead to as drastic of under-steer.
I don't advise full throttle over the hill on the long straight. The front will lift off, and the loss of control is not worth the blip on the breaks needed to keep the nose down (when executed just before the crest).
Deep Forest: 1:11.725
The turning radius problem is solved. The throttle control through the mid- and corner exit leads to consistent over-steer. Just feed more throttle gently to rotate more. It's very easy to know when you're going to lose it. Even with the elevation changes, more often than not, overstepping leads to losing your line slightly rather than complete loss if control.
The tyres only last me 3 laps with hard driving.
Autumn Ring: 1:12.713
Feels like a much more controllable version of the Modded Model.
It can keep up in the slaloms, but just barely.
The U turns and long corners are fun as I tried to power as much speed through them as I could.
This track is a bit short for this car but it does highlight the increased maneuverability.
Stage 3 : Tuned
834hp, 1268kg, 638pp @ 133.9 miles (no oil change yet)
Sports Hard Tyres
Trial Mountain: 1:32.850
Much more fun and controllable. Vast improvement. Even with the sports hard tyres I have better stability than the racing softs. Not better times mind you, just better control.
Breaking early is still a must but not nearly as chancy as the Modded Model.
Throttle produces steady over-steer, but be warned: changing the degree of turning past 35° or so (as it feels to me) is difficult. The uphill S-complex is difficult to take at the limit because the car can't keep up.
The tyres are lasting much longer, perhaps four times as long.
Deep Forest: 1:19.877
Again: vast improvement.
Very stable with very predictable turning arc. Very predictable turning arc.
This is my conversation with the car. Anyone remember the scene in 'Don't mess with the Zohan' where Rob Schneider and the Phantom were talking on the phone?
First corner:
Me (as Rob): "I want you to break this much."
Car (as Phanton): "No, I slow this much."
Next corner:
Me: "Turn this much."
Car: "No, I turn this amount instead."
Me: "I'll turn the wheel more."
Car: "No, I still turn this amount instead."
Me: "I uncoil gently."
Car: "I no care."
At least the tyres are lasting much longer. I don't have to take a hot lap, then pit every time.
Autumn Ring: 1:23.766
Much harder to control on this track. The turning limit and slow (relative to the track) response of the suspension for attitude changes makes navigating very difficult.
Breaking must be done early, very early. Any trail-breaking produces under-steer, and this car has enough problems rotating enough as it is.
When 'Sporting' around it is quite fun. Over power the mid-corner to rotate and use the massive power to shoot off. But it's hardly the fastest method.
On RS tyres:
Trial Mountain: 1:24.302
Matador! This bull is an excellent ride. The time difference between Tuned and Modded is more my driving than the tune, I believe. Probably due to more confidence in the breaks leading to more trail-breaking instead of throttle steering.
Breaking distance is much more reasonable and trail-breaking, as mentioned, is much more stable and doesn't lead to as drastic of under-steer.
I don't advise full throttle over the hill on the long straight. The front will lift off, and the loss of control is not worth the blip on the breaks needed to keep the nose down (when executed just before the crest).
Deep Forest: 1:11.725
The turning radius problem is solved. The throttle control through the mid- and corner exit leads to consistent over-steer. Just feed more throttle gently to rotate more. It's very easy to know when you're going to lose it. Even with the elevation changes, more often than not, overstepping leads to losing your line slightly rather than complete loss if control.
The tyres only last me 3 laps with hard driving.
Autumn Ring: 1:12.713
Feels like a much more controllable version of the Modded Model.
It can keep up in the slaloms, but just barely.
The U turns and long corners are fun as I tried to power as much speed through them as I could.
This track is a bit short for this car but it does highlight the increased maneuverability.
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gamerdog6482
(Banned)
- 6,233
- Venom, USA
- Gamerdog6482
- 3,131
- IL, USA
- DigitalBaka
- DigitalBaka587
I might have some matte light green I can copy for you but it will be a while before I can check tonight. What are these colors for again?
- 5,814
- Hillsboro Oregon
- XDesperado67
- XDesperado67
They are Ronalds way of helping him sort his garage by tuner. If he sees a solar yellow tuned car in his garage he knows its got my tune on it for example.👍👍
- 3,131
- IL, USA
- DigitalBaka
- DigitalBaka587
I see. That makes sense. Shame on you for stealing my color though! 
Heading to my PS3 to check for chips. I'll send them if they are there.
Heading to my PS3 to check for chips. I'll send them if they are there.
- 5,814
- Hillsboro Oregon
- XDesperado67
- XDesperado67
Hey the color was his choice not mine...I would have gone for something like Maziora Andromeda if it had been up to me.I see. That makes sense. Shame on you for stealing my color though!
Heading to my PS3 to check for chips. I'll send them if they are there.
projects2k
(Banned)
- 688
- huddersfield
- JSD-DUDDY
XDesperado67Hey the color was his choice not mine...I would have gone for something like Maziora Andromeda if it had been up to me.
You copied mine too....
- 1,494
- Portland / Or /
- Barefoot_Driver
I'm surprised that no one has asked for one of the chromes.
And not that it matters in any way to this thread, but my personal collection color coding system is (in no particular order):
My own (my precious!): (BMW) Merlotrot Metallic
ACSR421: Gold Metallic with Silver Chrome wheels
USACV: Blue Sapphire
Motor City Hamilton: (Honda) Lime Green Metallic
RobRabbitMan: Lagunaseca Blue w/Black wheels
Praiano: Matte Black
Harvey: (Lexus) Pearl Yellow
Jackthalad: British Racing Green w/ Boston Green wheels (still lol)
Gamrdog: Rosso Corsa (red)
NewDriver: Midnight Purple
OnBoy: Deep Cranberry Pearl (purple)
Projects2k: Maziora Andromada (blue/purple)
DigitalBaka: (Honda) Nurburgring blue metallic with dark blue mica metallic wheels
CSLACR: (Lotus) Chrome Orange
Krenkme and the Princess: (Honda) Brilliant Sky Metallic
Trackripper: (TVR) Reflex Spice
GranTurist: Passionate Pink
C-ZETA: (Mitsu) Scotia White
ShmoGT: (Ferrari) Verde
Jahgee: (TVR) Chameleon Orange
Did I miss anyone?
Mix up the colors?
And not that it matters in any way to this thread, but my personal collection color coding system is (in no particular order):
My own (my precious!): (BMW) Merlotrot Metallic
ACSR421: Gold Metallic with Silver Chrome wheels
USACV: Blue Sapphire
Motor City Hamilton: (Honda) Lime Green Metallic
RobRabbitMan: Lagunaseca Blue w/Black wheels
Praiano: Matte Black
Harvey: (Lexus) Pearl Yellow
Jackthalad: British Racing Green w/ Boston Green wheels (still lol)
Gamrdog: Rosso Corsa (red)
NewDriver: Midnight Purple
OnBoy: Deep Cranberry Pearl (purple)
Projects2k: Maziora Andromada (blue/purple)
DigitalBaka: (Honda) Nurburgring blue metallic with dark blue mica metallic wheels
CSLACR: (Lotus) Chrome Orange
Krenkme and the Princess: (Honda) Brilliant Sky Metallic
Trackripper: (TVR) Reflex Spice
GranTurist: Passionate Pink
C-ZETA: (Mitsu) Scotia White
ShmoGT: (Ferrari) Verde
Jahgee: (TVR) Chameleon Orange
Did I miss anyone?
Mix up the colors?
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gamerdog6482
(Banned)
- 6,233
- Venom, USA
- Gamerdog6482
All right, I'm going to say Rosso Corsa is my color.
Last edited:
gamerdog6482
(Banned)
- 6,233
- Venom, USA
- Gamerdog6482
Ah, yes...
I used Rosso Corsa in my version, I THINK, but I'm not 100% sure. I'll use that color anyway, as it's pretty iconic for Italy.
I used Rosso Corsa in my version, I THINK, but I'm not 100% sure. I'll use that color anyway, as it's pretty iconic for Italy.
- 1,847
- London
- Ziz528
Ronald, did you get my RUF? It's already got the settings on it. 
Painted in Red Mica Metallic.
Painted in Red Mica Metallic.
- 682
- Charlotte, NC
- IAmTheWhiteDeath
I look the looks of this thread so far.
And as a color, I go with Lagunaseca Blue with black wheels, but it's really up to you.
And as a color, I go with Lagunaseca Blue with black wheels, but it's really up to you.
- 1,494
- Portland / Or /
- Barefoot_Driver
@Trackripper: I got your RUF. Thank you.
@ACSR421: I got "Lil' Ray," thank you.
@CSLACR: orange it is. Welcome to to the list.
My neck and shoulder are feeling better. I hope to put in a couple of hours tomorrow. Don't expect anything this weekend. I will be very busy till Monday, and probably recovering for a day or too.
My online garage has Jackthalads MR2 up for share, enjoy, I did.
And Harveys Sunshine Express, ditto.
Do I still need to share these Suzuki Cervos? It would be nice of I could share my most recent reviews.
@ACSR421: I got "Lil' Ray," thank you.
@CSLACR: orange it is. Welcome to to the list.
My neck and shoulder are feeling better. I hope to put in a couple of hours tomorrow. Don't expect anything this weekend. I will be very busy till Monday, and probably recovering for a day or too.
My online garage has Jackthalads MR2 up for share, enjoy, I did.
And Harveys Sunshine Express, ditto.
Do I still need to share these Suzuki Cervos? It would be nice of I could share my most recent reviews.
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- 1,494
- Portland / Or /
- Barefoot_Driver
In preparation for the beginning of testing for my upcoming Caterham Shootout I decided to do a review of the Base Model.
The Car:
Completely stock
164hp, 369kg, 566pp @ 23,086.1 (with engine and chassis overhaul. I don't think the "back to stock conditions" ticket is called for yet.)
Grand Valley Speedway: 2.14.810
Heavy wheel for such a light car. (Not doing my neck/shoulder any favors here.) Very good feedback, which is needed, considering the car likes to ride with rear slip angles through every corner.
Gearing is very long. 1st tops out around 78 mph, 2nd around 110mph and the top of third isn't reached.
Turn in is razor sharp precision. Absolutely no qualms there.
The car responds to and has room for mid-corner continuous radius corrections using the wheel, with its excellent feedback.
Throttle/break steering on the other hand must have continuity and smoothness. Breaking is best left to pre-steering inputs. Mid-corner longitude weight shifts are often unbalancing.
The breaking distance of this car is amazing.
Because of the narrow width and long length (comparatively) of the car it is easy to feel the Point-of-Yaw move forward as the rear tyres gain more slip. Once you learn to feed the throttle just under the steering this makes catching an over-rotation fairly easy, so long as you keep the car in its "comfort zone." (I.e. Sporty, See below.)
Autumn Ring: 1:29.925
Breaks aren't much called for. The cars breaking distance makes break steering uncalled for but throttle steering is a must.
The long S-complex at the beginning of the track is a game I call: "Aim, Fire!" Repeat.
The longer continuous radius corners are a quest to keep the back end just under the over-steer point.
All-in-all:
The car has a problem with going through long continuous radius corners at an angle, which is all of the LCRCs. The front tyres start to bounce uncontrollably. This is very noticeable on the Autumn Ring loop and unavoidable on the Cape Ring loop.
The car has three ranges: sporty, racing and death. Sporty takes up the first 75% of the cars potential. Racing takes up the next 2% and Death takes up the remainder. That doesn't leave a whole lot of room to push the car to its limit. Have fun trying to keep the car in that 2% range without going over.
The Car:
Completely stock
164hp, 369kg, 566pp @ 23,086.1 (with engine and chassis overhaul. I don't think the "back to stock conditions" ticket is called for yet.)
Grand Valley Speedway: 2.14.810
Heavy wheel for such a light car. (Not doing my neck/shoulder any favors here.) Very good feedback, which is needed, considering the car likes to ride with rear slip angles through every corner.
Gearing is very long. 1st tops out around 78 mph, 2nd around 110mph and the top of third isn't reached.
Turn in is razor sharp precision. Absolutely no qualms there.
The car responds to and has room for mid-corner continuous radius corrections using the wheel, with its excellent feedback.
Throttle/break steering on the other hand must have continuity and smoothness. Breaking is best left to pre-steering inputs. Mid-corner longitude weight shifts are often unbalancing.
The breaking distance of this car is amazing.
Because of the narrow width and long length (comparatively) of the car it is easy to feel the Point-of-Yaw move forward as the rear tyres gain more slip. Once you learn to feed the throttle just under the steering this makes catching an over-rotation fairly easy, so long as you keep the car in its "comfort zone." (I.e. Sporty, See below.)
Autumn Ring: 1:29.925
Breaks aren't much called for. The cars breaking distance makes break steering uncalled for but throttle steering is a must.
The long S-complex at the beginning of the track is a game I call: "Aim, Fire!" Repeat.
The longer continuous radius corners are a quest to keep the back end just under the over-steer point.
All-in-all:
The car has a problem with going through long continuous radius corners at an angle, which is all of the LCRCs. The front tyres start to bounce uncontrollably. This is very noticeable on the Autumn Ring loop and unavoidable on the Cape Ring loop.
The car has three ranges: sporty, racing and death. Sporty takes up the first 75% of the cars potential. Racing takes up the next 2% and Death takes up the remainder. That doesn't leave a whole lot of room to push the car to its limit. Have fun trying to keep the car in that 2% range without going over.
Last edited:
gamerdog6482
(Banned)
- 6,233
- Venom, USA
- Gamerdog6482
This thread died quite quickly.
Ronald6, are you still testing these cars?
Ronald6, are you still testing these cars?
- 1,494
- Portland / Or /
- Barefoot_Driver
Yes, I've been editing the review for the 'Red Bull' (aka Vulgar Unicorn) when I have time. I'm about to sit down and add the tune to the Modded Model. I'll probably do another Modded Model run on Racing Hard tyres before I add the tune. The run the tune twice also, once on SH and once on RH.
Sorry for the delay but I've been working on the Caterham Fireblade Shootout which I finished minutes ago. I'll post those results on this thread soon. And the recent FF Summer Shootout.
Edit:
I also have been working on a tune of my own for the recent '80s seasonal. I was able to gold all 5 events, including Tsukuba. Since its on share I can't post the tune, but if someone wants to borrow it and tell me what they think I would be grateful.
Sorry for the delay but I've been working on the Caterham Fireblade Shootout which I finished minutes ago. I'll post those results on this thread soon. And the recent FF Summer Shootout.
Edit:
I also have been working on a tune of my own for the recent '80s seasonal. I was able to gold all 5 events, including Tsukuba. Since its on share I can't post the tune, but if someone wants to borrow it and tell me what they think I would be grateful.
gamerdog6482
(Banned)
- 6,233
- Venom, USA
- Gamerdog6482
gamerdog6482
(Banned)
- 6,233
- Venom, USA
- Gamerdog6482
Yes, Racing Soft. RH just doesn't give as much grip as RS.
- 3,131
- IL, USA
- DigitalBaka
- DigitalBaka587
- 1,494
- Portland / Or /
- Barefoot_Driver
This is a copy of my testing for the Caterham 7 Fireblade Shootout:
Ok, here we go. Testing results.
Please see my review thread for a review of the Base Model 'blade.
GVS: 2:14.810
Autumn Ring: 1:29.925
Trackripper123:
165hp, 369kg, 566pp,
Test vehicle: apx 21,000 miles, engine overhaul, chassis maintenance. Reflex Spice paint job.
GVS: 2:13.412
Turn in isn't as sharp, but that smidge of room allows for much more control mid- and corner exit. When overpowering on corner exit instead of spinning the back end round and round the car rotates around its point-of-yaw, and does so so calmly and slowly that pulling back from over-rotation is easy, with either counter steering or throttle steering.
Gearing is very good. I enter the hairpin corners at just under what will throw the car off the track, use a dab of trail-breaking to rotate when needed and once I have the car pointed in the general direction I double click down two gears and shoot out like a rocket. On sweeper corners changing gears mid-corner is ok and doesn't upset the balance unduly.
Breaking distance is still very short and trail-breakingare is very possible. Just watch out: on the Base Model if you went into the corner too fast you could just spin the rear end round and continue on. With this version if you go in too hot you can't spin the rear end round, so instead you'll calmly slide off the road, but in a well balanced slide at least. This isn't really a problem because of the breaking distance, balance and incredible controllability of the tune.
Usually I cut tenths of a second from my laps when testing/reviewing till I get several laps in a row where I don't improve or am so close to the edge of control at all times that improving my time would be more stressful than rewarding. With this car (almost) every lap till lap eight I didn't cut tenths off but 0.5 to 1.3 seconds per lap. There is definitely a learning curve with this tune, it takes a while to get out of the mindset of "this is amazing fun" to "hot lap."
The front tyres heat up and stay warn before and longer than the rear tyres, but they both wear at the same rate.
Feedback from the steering wheel is good, probably improved from the Base Model because alot of the snap-oversteer is removed.
Autumn Ring: 1:28.950
This car has gone to the vet and gotten "tutored." I use my break twice per lap: once on corner one and again on the downhill-U-downhill. Besides those two very brief dabs on the break I try to push through all the simple corners with as much throttle as the front end can handle. The more I can stay on the throttle the better my times.
The complexes are more... um... complex? No breaking needed, just throttle steering. But that still leaves alot of room for various driving styles in the S-complexes.
GranTourist:
165hp, 369kg, 567pp
Test vehicle: 2,827.3 miles, oil change (no engine or chassis needed), painted Passionate Pink (strangly enough I already had one that color).
GVS: 2:12.086
Lovin' it. There's a massive range between grip-n-slip. Take it to the edge of what you think it can handle, then give it more (gently), it's ok, the car can take it. Keep pushing the cars limit till you find it. When you do... Wall! Ok, there it is. Now keep it just below that limit. That's alot of range to work with.
The tune removed most of the over-steer and, up to it's limit, the snap-over-steer. But the car isn't under-steering. It rotates well with either break or throttle steering, and is capable of over-rotation on command.
The breaks are ok, they could use some work to help the car rotate as well as the throttle does.
The gears are good, it looks like one of CLSACRs jobs, redlining 6th just before the end of the straight. You can keep it in the current gear when entering a corner to under-rotate or gear down as needed to over-rotate.
I keep thinking, "This has got to be all the tune can handle, the tyres are wearing out." Then I better that lap three laps later. Repeat over and over.
The last tunnel/R turning corner is a great way to explore the tunes stability under throttle: it goes from over- to under- and back to over-steer as you keep pushing more throttle at it. Massive fun.
Autumn Ring: 1:27.884
It's not as easy to keep on the throttle as on GVS. That makes it harder to hot lap. But every lap is enjoyable.
The gearing still feels tight. It's easy to pick your gear based on how much rotation you want.
The breaks are kinda ok. More rotation under trail-breaking would be nice.
Turn-in is good. Mid-corner is great. Corner exit is excellent.
NewDriver2:
165hp, 400kg, 555pp
Test vehicle: 17.785.6 miles, engine and chassis overhaul, painted Midnight Purple III (can't wait to try this car in cockpit mode, at least this color is slightly more manly than barbie pink).
GVS: 2:13.070
The over-steer is so gentle! Instead of fighting with a bug eyed monster (the Base Model) it feels like I'm rocking a baby to sleep. At first I thought that was the shiznit, till I pushed the car too far on entry and it calmly rotated while sliding off the track. Lol.
The breaks are good. But it's difficult to rotate the car while trail-breaking from high speed (the first corner for example). Trail-breaking from mid to low speeds is very stable and rotation is in harmony with throttle steering.
The gears are long. Not nearly as long as stock but definitely not as close as the previous tunes. I'm no where near maxing it on the front straight, but I do hit 6th just before the start/finish line. The longer gearing does mean fewer shifts mid corner and on the mid to low speed corners you can usually pick between three gears for your appropriate power band.
Turn in is still razor sharp at mid to low speeds. Mid corner is amazingly good, so long as you don't exceed the cars limit by too much. Corner exit is likewise amazing. Even if you push too hard once you've entered the corner it is (again that word) amazingly simple to pull it back in line. Mid corner steering corrections, even at the limit, have a large range of motion ("sawing") without upsetting the cars balance. The left hander before the downhill-U-uphill is an excellent example of that. Alot of high power cars (like the Base Model) have a hard time not over-rotating on the entrance to the downhill, but this tune loves it, "Give me more!" It cries. "But you're already at full throttle," I tell it. "Weenie," it replies, "you should have come in hotter."
Autumn Ring: 1:28.408
Much the same as GVS, but without the high speed corners. Stability is the word for this car/track combo.
The long S-complex doesn't need a light touch as compared to its Base Model, steering is equal parts throttle control and wheel.
Breaking isn't so much about distance on this track as much as it is rotation control. Which is a little lacking. Hydraulic E-break anyone?
The loop brings out that bouncy front end I mentioned in my Base Model review.
The downhill-U-downhill could use some trail-breaking rotation, throttle isn't enough to rotate the car for the exit.
The corner after the downhill-U-downhill is this cars nemesis (nemisi, nemisy?). It's a Euler and it does not play well with this cars attitude. Thats where most of my time is lost, I think.
All-in-all: Amazingly stable and sporty. There's alot of room mid corner for corrections. But some traction is lost in favor of balance. (That's like criticizing the Mona Lisas' smile.)
Looks like there will be only three entries per Group so no need for a round two. Bummer.
Group B:
Praiano:
255hp, 400kg, 614pp
Test vehicle: 264.6 miles, oil change, matte black paint.
Deep Forest: 1:17.690
Excellent balance and stability. Even on the cambered elevation changing complexes it glides through with dignity.
The gears are very good. Excellent length and I'm not changing in the corners too much.
Great feel through the wheel.
Great range-of-feel, even with RM tyres it stays well balanced when pushed slightly beyond its limit it will re-align calmly.
Trail-breaking is easy and in harmony with throttle steering. But keep your breaking limited to deceleration only. The throttle steering is all you need for rotation/attitude control.
SSR5: 1:27.109
Find a line that favors throttle. It's very easy to control the car using the breaks but don't get lolled into complacency. Use the throttle!
The long sweeping corners and slow swaying S-complexes feel purpose built for the stability of this car.
Turn in is razor sharp, every apex, every time.
Mid corner and exit are also very precise. Pushing this car to its limit is easy and intuitive.
MrGrado:
256hp, 369kg, 625pp
Test vehicle: 17,855.9, oil change. Same car as NewDriver.
GVS: 1:17.106
Very stable, like Praianos' tune even the cambered elevation changing complexes are not enough to destabilize the car. But push it too far when it only has three wheels on the ground and round and round you go.
Trail breaking is easy, but again the best times are achieved using the cars somewhat chaotic (only in comparison to Praiano) throttle control.
The wheel is possibly the heaviest I've felt. Turn in is like steering a tank.
Gearing is long.
Mid corner counter steering corrections are possible but chancy.
Exit counter sway is enough to make full throttle risky all the way to the breaking point.
SSR5: 1:25.908
The extra instability makes it easier to rotate the car through these long sweeping corners and in the S-complexes.
Again, very stable and balanced, but with a heavy wheel.
Good turn in. Mid- and corner exit are equal parts steering and throttle control.
Very enjoyable. The worst is removed but it's still got bite.
Cap_Shadow:
224hp, 400kg, 601pp
Test vehicle: 296.8 miles, oil change. I'm using Praianos' car, matte black seamed appropriate.
Deep Forest: 1:17.485
Not nearly as stable as the previous tunes. It's noticeable from the first corner, all four wheels like to have slip through every corner.
Throttle steering is good but full throttle pushes the front end rather than over powering the rear into over-steer.
The last corner can be taken full throttle if aimed correctly. Just expect a little four wheel drifting.
I find myself 'sawing' for control alot. It wasn't till my fifth or sixth lap that I got an 'even and consistent' lap in.
Although throttle control is responsive it can't keep up with the steering inputs. Recovering from an unintended drift can be chancy and isn't smooth enough to continue a hot lap.
It's fun to push, push, push, but overstep just a little and there goes the lap.
SSR5: 1:28.215
These non-cambered corners make it easier to understand this cars attitude. Break early, then push through with throttle. If done correctly you'll power through the apex with over-steer then naturally transition into under-steer.
It's a wonderful way to tune. But unfortunately it does not fit my driving style.
DigitalBaka, want to give this car a whirl and see what you think?
If I spent more time exploring the limits of the car I'm sure I could post must more consistent times and faster times. But the over- to under-steer transition is throwing me off.
Turn it is good to great, but expect all four tires to slide when entering a low angle high speed, or even mid speed corner.
Mid- and corner exit are good to excellent, depending on how well you can work the cars style.
Gearing is long but well spaced. You can't play 'choose your torque' with multiple gear options but there is less shifting and more consistent power through the corners.
Breaking distance is good, and trail breaking is fairly easy and in harmony with throttle steering.
OnBoy:
255hp, 369kg, 626pp
Deep Forest: 1:16.889
Fun and consistent when sporting around, the limit is a little closer than the other tunes. The suspension feels kinda squishy, which makes the slaloms difficult.
When pushed to the limit the tail will slide out on a moments notice, even on a relatively straight stretch like the up and down hill before the last tunnel. The power is barely contained and will light up the rear tyres at a moments notice at almost any time.
Breaking distance is short but trail breaking is difficult and will spin the car if you come into a corner too hot. There isn't much forgiveness in trail breaking.
The gearing is good and tight.
Turn in is excellent, perhaps the best thing about this car.
Mid- and corner exit are much less predictable. The amazing power-on-demand combined with the squishy suspension makes controlling the car after corner entrance chancy at best. It takes the car so long to 'settle down' after a corner that I often find myself backwards because I put my foot down too heavily too fast. This car calls for a masterful right foot.
SSR5: 1:27.572
Much easier to control on this less cambered track. But it's still easy to push the car too far in a corner or complex and put yourself into an uncontrollable spin. Even those that I do recover from take up the whole track and several seconds as my tail goes to and fro several times.
Trail breaking is still chancy but not suicidal. But it doesn't matter. You don't need the breaks to help rotate the car, the throttle will do all the rotating you need.
Break early, power through the corner gently, and don't get fully on the throttle till you are well and away from the corner exit.
Ok, here we go. Testing results.
Please see my review thread for a review of the Base Model 'blade.
GVS: 2:14.810
Autumn Ring: 1:29.925
Trackripper123:
165hp, 369kg, 566pp,
Test vehicle: apx 21,000 miles, engine overhaul, chassis maintenance. Reflex Spice paint job.
GVS: 2:13.412
Turn in isn't as sharp, but that smidge of room allows for much more control mid- and corner exit. When overpowering on corner exit instead of spinning the back end round and round the car rotates around its point-of-yaw, and does so so calmly and slowly that pulling back from over-rotation is easy, with either counter steering or throttle steering.
Gearing is very good. I enter the hairpin corners at just under what will throw the car off the track, use a dab of trail-breaking to rotate when needed and once I have the car pointed in the general direction I double click down two gears and shoot out like a rocket. On sweeper corners changing gears mid-corner is ok and doesn't upset the balance unduly.
Breaking distance is still very short and trail-breakingare is very possible. Just watch out: on the Base Model if you went into the corner too fast you could just spin the rear end round and continue on. With this version if you go in too hot you can't spin the rear end round, so instead you'll calmly slide off the road, but in a well balanced slide at least. This isn't really a problem because of the breaking distance, balance and incredible controllability of the tune.
Usually I cut tenths of a second from my laps when testing/reviewing till I get several laps in a row where I don't improve or am so close to the edge of control at all times that improving my time would be more stressful than rewarding. With this car (almost) every lap till lap eight I didn't cut tenths off but 0.5 to 1.3 seconds per lap. There is definitely a learning curve with this tune, it takes a while to get out of the mindset of "this is amazing fun" to "hot lap."
The front tyres heat up and stay warn before and longer than the rear tyres, but they both wear at the same rate.
Feedback from the steering wheel is good, probably improved from the Base Model because alot of the snap-oversteer is removed.
Autumn Ring: 1:28.950
This car has gone to the vet and gotten "tutored." I use my break twice per lap: once on corner one and again on the downhill-U-downhill. Besides those two very brief dabs on the break I try to push through all the simple corners with as much throttle as the front end can handle. The more I can stay on the throttle the better my times.
The complexes are more... um... complex? No breaking needed, just throttle steering. But that still leaves alot of room for various driving styles in the S-complexes.
GranTourist:
165hp, 369kg, 567pp
Test vehicle: 2,827.3 miles, oil change (no engine or chassis needed), painted Passionate Pink (strangly enough I already had one that color).
GVS: 2:12.086
Lovin' it. There's a massive range between grip-n-slip. Take it to the edge of what you think it can handle, then give it more (gently), it's ok, the car can take it. Keep pushing the cars limit till you find it. When you do... Wall! Ok, there it is. Now keep it just below that limit. That's alot of range to work with.
The tune removed most of the over-steer and, up to it's limit, the snap-over-steer. But the car isn't under-steering. It rotates well with either break or throttle steering, and is capable of over-rotation on command.
The breaks are ok, they could use some work to help the car rotate as well as the throttle does.
The gears are good, it looks like one of CLSACRs jobs, redlining 6th just before the end of the straight. You can keep it in the current gear when entering a corner to under-rotate or gear down as needed to over-rotate.
I keep thinking, "This has got to be all the tune can handle, the tyres are wearing out." Then I better that lap three laps later. Repeat over and over.
The last tunnel/R turning corner is a great way to explore the tunes stability under throttle: it goes from over- to under- and back to over-steer as you keep pushing more throttle at it. Massive fun.
Autumn Ring: 1:27.884
It's not as easy to keep on the throttle as on GVS. That makes it harder to hot lap. But every lap is enjoyable.
The gearing still feels tight. It's easy to pick your gear based on how much rotation you want.
The breaks are kinda ok. More rotation under trail-breaking would be nice.
Turn-in is good. Mid-corner is great. Corner exit is excellent.
NewDriver2:
165hp, 400kg, 555pp
Test vehicle: 17.785.6 miles, engine and chassis overhaul, painted Midnight Purple III (can't wait to try this car in cockpit mode, at least this color is slightly more manly than barbie pink).
GVS: 2:13.070
The over-steer is so gentle! Instead of fighting with a bug eyed monster (the Base Model) it feels like I'm rocking a baby to sleep. At first I thought that was the shiznit, till I pushed the car too far on entry and it calmly rotated while sliding off the track. Lol.
The breaks are good. But it's difficult to rotate the car while trail-breaking from high speed (the first corner for example). Trail-breaking from mid to low speeds is very stable and rotation is in harmony with throttle steering.
The gears are long. Not nearly as long as stock but definitely not as close as the previous tunes. I'm no where near maxing it on the front straight, but I do hit 6th just before the start/finish line. The longer gearing does mean fewer shifts mid corner and on the mid to low speed corners you can usually pick between three gears for your appropriate power band.
Turn in is still razor sharp at mid to low speeds. Mid corner is amazingly good, so long as you don't exceed the cars limit by too much. Corner exit is likewise amazing. Even if you push too hard once you've entered the corner it is (again that word) amazingly simple to pull it back in line. Mid corner steering corrections, even at the limit, have a large range of motion ("sawing") without upsetting the cars balance. The left hander before the downhill-U-uphill is an excellent example of that. Alot of high power cars (like the Base Model) have a hard time not over-rotating on the entrance to the downhill, but this tune loves it, "Give me more!" It cries. "But you're already at full throttle," I tell it. "Weenie," it replies, "you should have come in hotter."
Autumn Ring: 1:28.408
Much the same as GVS, but without the high speed corners. Stability is the word for this car/track combo.
The long S-complex doesn't need a light touch as compared to its Base Model, steering is equal parts throttle control and wheel.
Breaking isn't so much about distance on this track as much as it is rotation control. Which is a little lacking. Hydraulic E-break anyone?
The loop brings out that bouncy front end I mentioned in my Base Model review.
The downhill-U-downhill could use some trail-breaking rotation, throttle isn't enough to rotate the car for the exit.
The corner after the downhill-U-downhill is this cars nemesis (nemisi, nemisy?). It's a Euler and it does not play well with this cars attitude. Thats where most of my time is lost, I think.
All-in-all: Amazingly stable and sporty. There's alot of room mid corner for corrections. But some traction is lost in favor of balance. (That's like criticizing the Mona Lisas' smile.)
Looks like there will be only three entries per Group so no need for a round two. Bummer.
Group B:
Praiano:
255hp, 400kg, 614pp
Test vehicle: 264.6 miles, oil change, matte black paint.
Deep Forest: 1:17.690
Excellent balance and stability. Even on the cambered elevation changing complexes it glides through with dignity.
The gears are very good. Excellent length and I'm not changing in the corners too much.
Great feel through the wheel.
Great range-of-feel, even with RM tyres it stays well balanced when pushed slightly beyond its limit it will re-align calmly.
Trail-breaking is easy and in harmony with throttle steering. But keep your breaking limited to deceleration only. The throttle steering is all you need for rotation/attitude control.
SSR5: 1:27.109
Find a line that favors throttle. It's very easy to control the car using the breaks but don't get lolled into complacency. Use the throttle!
The long sweeping corners and slow swaying S-complexes feel purpose built for the stability of this car.
Turn in is razor sharp, every apex, every time.
Mid corner and exit are also very precise. Pushing this car to its limit is easy and intuitive.
MrGrado:
256hp, 369kg, 625pp
Test vehicle: 17,855.9, oil change. Same car as NewDriver.
GVS: 1:17.106
Very stable, like Praianos' tune even the cambered elevation changing complexes are not enough to destabilize the car. But push it too far when it only has three wheels on the ground and round and round you go.
Trail breaking is easy, but again the best times are achieved using the cars somewhat chaotic (only in comparison to Praiano) throttle control.
The wheel is possibly the heaviest I've felt. Turn in is like steering a tank.
Gearing is long.
Mid corner counter steering corrections are possible but chancy.
Exit counter sway is enough to make full throttle risky all the way to the breaking point.
SSR5: 1:25.908
The extra instability makes it easier to rotate the car through these long sweeping corners and in the S-complexes.
Again, very stable and balanced, but with a heavy wheel.
Good turn in. Mid- and corner exit are equal parts steering and throttle control.
Very enjoyable. The worst is removed but it's still got bite.
Cap_Shadow:
224hp, 400kg, 601pp
Test vehicle: 296.8 miles, oil change. I'm using Praianos' car, matte black seamed appropriate.
Deep Forest: 1:17.485
Not nearly as stable as the previous tunes. It's noticeable from the first corner, all four wheels like to have slip through every corner.
Throttle steering is good but full throttle pushes the front end rather than over powering the rear into over-steer.
The last corner can be taken full throttle if aimed correctly. Just expect a little four wheel drifting.
I find myself 'sawing' for control alot. It wasn't till my fifth or sixth lap that I got an 'even and consistent' lap in.
Although throttle control is responsive it can't keep up with the steering inputs. Recovering from an unintended drift can be chancy and isn't smooth enough to continue a hot lap.
It's fun to push, push, push, but overstep just a little and there goes the lap.
SSR5: 1:28.215
These non-cambered corners make it easier to understand this cars attitude. Break early, then push through with throttle. If done correctly you'll power through the apex with over-steer then naturally transition into under-steer.
It's a wonderful way to tune. But unfortunately it does not fit my driving style.
DigitalBaka, want to give this car a whirl and see what you think?
If I spent more time exploring the limits of the car I'm sure I could post must more consistent times and faster times. But the over- to under-steer transition is throwing me off.
Turn it is good to great, but expect all four tires to slide when entering a low angle high speed, or even mid speed corner.
Mid- and corner exit are good to excellent, depending on how well you can work the cars style.
Gearing is long but well spaced. You can't play 'choose your torque' with multiple gear options but there is less shifting and more consistent power through the corners.
Breaking distance is good, and trail breaking is fairly easy and in harmony with throttle steering.
OnBoy:
255hp, 369kg, 626pp
Deep Forest: 1:16.889
Fun and consistent when sporting around, the limit is a little closer than the other tunes. The suspension feels kinda squishy, which makes the slaloms difficult.
When pushed to the limit the tail will slide out on a moments notice, even on a relatively straight stretch like the up and down hill before the last tunnel. The power is barely contained and will light up the rear tyres at a moments notice at almost any time.
Breaking distance is short but trail breaking is difficult and will spin the car if you come into a corner too hot. There isn't much forgiveness in trail breaking.
The gearing is good and tight.
Turn in is excellent, perhaps the best thing about this car.
Mid- and corner exit are much less predictable. The amazing power-on-demand combined with the squishy suspension makes controlling the car after corner entrance chancy at best. It takes the car so long to 'settle down' after a corner that I often find myself backwards because I put my foot down too heavily too fast. This car calls for a masterful right foot.
SSR5: 1:27.572
Much easier to control on this less cambered track. But it's still easy to push the car too far in a corner or complex and put yourself into an uncontrollable spin. Even those that I do recover from take up the whole track and several seconds as my tail goes to and fro several times.
Trail breaking is still chancy but not suicidal. But it doesn't matter. You don't need the breaks to help rotate the car, the throttle will do all the rotating you need.
Break early, power through the corner gently, and don't get fully on the throttle till you are well and away from the corner exit.
Last edited:
- 1,494
- Portland / Or /
- Barefoot_Driver
This is a copy of my testing for the Second Annual FF Summer Shootout:
Ok, after almost 12 hours straight yesterday I completed almost all the Class B (430pp) cars on Toscana.
For each vehicle I'll list the tuner, three best times and any notes I made about the vehicle.
Desperado:
Honda CR-Z '10, "Katana"
1.59.348. 1:59.561. 1:59.751. Again: "Rotate, Mother!, rotate." I need to take this car back out and try it again. I can probably knock at least another half second off. I didn't use the E-break till several cars later. This car would probably work better with the E-break.
Edit: Updated times: 1:56.765. 1:57.403. 1:57.565. See the post laster on this page for my notes.
Krenkme:
Toyota Vitz RS Turbo '02, "Phyllobates Terribilis"
1:57.140. 1:57.583. 1.58.824. Easy to drive and more than any other car: consistent.
Edit: Updated times: 1:56.513. 1:56.907. 1:57.073. Again: consistent. Good gears. Good front end grip. Good rotation. But good god, why olive green?! At least on Toscana the dirt makes it look good. Overall a very competitive car. With seat time I'm sure I could knock more time off, but I could say the same for all the cars. I got the 1:56.907 on my first retry. On my second lap I was up on that ghost by over .380 in the first sector but flobbed it. Short dabs of the E-break at just the right spot are useful, but more is too much. With practice I could do it without the E-break.
C-Zeta (V16T91):
Mazda Demio Sport '03:
1:56.263. 1:57.704. 1:58.150:
First thought: the gears are very long. There's alot of dead space between three and four, the most common shift on this track. Most cars I think about my line and shifting is mostly automatic (lol, get it, automatic?). The opposite is true in this car. I'm downshifting alot more than any other car, sometimes up-down two or even three times for the longer corners.
The quick time is a freak lap. The long gears make it difficult to keep the power down. It's more a coin flip than skill if you're in the correct gear, one wrong bump and you lose all your torque. If you learn to do it correctly the excellent front grip and almost perfect rotation make this car a powerhouse. Do not touch the E-break, it's not needed, all you'll do is kill your momentum. The breaks are excellent and help the rotation once you become familiar with it's break/pre-entry points. All-in-all a great car, with a massive minis.
NewDriver2 (OTS_NewDriver2):
Audi A2 1.4 '02:
1:59.554. 1:59.959. 1:59.961
First: I love the gearing. Its the smoothest yet. It lays down the power at all times. Throttle input control is needed more on this car than most others. When I can hit the correct entry speed the car rotates well. Unfortunately the suspension doesn't allow the vehicle to soak any of the bumps, the front end simply can't hang the longer corners or "infenion" corners. Overall it is sub-par with massive potential: fix the "soak" and watch it shred the competition.
Jackthalad (Crystalbuds):
Honda Ballade Sports CR-X 1.5Si '83:
1:59.441. 2:00.136. 2:00.316:
Sub-par soak, and a little more rotation would help. But the acceleration and throttle control are good. The lack if soak kills the front end grip. I like the gearing but it's lost in the cars sub-par times. One wrong bump in a corner and your line is gone.
ACSR421:
Mazda Kusabi '03:
1:56.191. 1.57.346. 1.57.755. Three corners. Thats it. I knew within three corners. My first thought was, "I would drive my grandmother to the hospital in this car." Nuff said. (Will you tune me a Fireblade?)
Edit: Updated times:
1:55.089. 1:56.153. 1:56.787:
Amazing grip and perfect rotation. The gears are spaced so that shifting is automatic, the engine sound is all I need which helps me keep my eye on the road (the complete opposite of Desperado's CR-Z and NewDriver2s' A2 1.4 {just to name 2} which forced me to keep "one eye" on the tack at all times). This car is everything I remember from from my first try, and now that I'm more experienced on this track, it's even better. The suspension soaks up everything, except it hits heavy on the front end on the jumps sometimes. The breaks are rarely needed but when you do be gentle, they work as well as everything else. The E-break isn't needed, the cars' perfect rotation makes it useless. Hands down the best car I've tested. I only did 5 laps on the retry, less than half the laps for any other car. As soon as I'm done with this competition I'm making myself one.
TrackRipper123 (Ziz528):
Mazda Kusabi Concept '03:
1:57.176. 1.57.465. 1:57.726. A solid ride. Good throttle/brake rotation.
Edit: Updated times:
1:55.566. 1:55.601. 1:55.659:
Good at everything: front grip, rotation, gearing, soak (suspension). Almost drab it's so good. Shifting can be done by ear, it has smooth torque through each gear, but they might be just a smidge too long. I find myself downshifting more than I would like. Rotation is intuitive. Grip is excellent, even on "infenion"corners. The soak takes all the bumps out. A very smooth ride for this track. If your driving style suits this car then it could be competitive against ACSR421s', unfortunately for TrackRipper my style fits ACSRs' better. I'm avoiding looking at the other testers times and notes so I can remain unprejudiced (as much as I can). I'd like to see if someone else can make this car sing. It's got the voice for it. At one time I was .780 up on my ghost. But I lose it at the hairpin every time.
OSE-CAP-SHADOW:
IST-R (Toyota ist 1.5s '02):
1:57.735. 1:57.790. 1:57.844
The suspension doesn't soak the bumps very well. The breaks are heavy and anything more than a light touch will cause it to slide. The gearing is good and allows the torque to be layed down consistently. The rotation is a bit lacking, probably because of the lack of soak. A decent car but it can't hold with the best. Perhaps it's better on LSeca?
LineR32:
Ka Kit Car:
2:02.227. 2:02.279. 2:02.469. Uninspired.
Edit: Updated times:
1:59.027. 1:59.183. 1:59.988:
Ok, the only thing uninspired was my driving. This suspension soaks everything. The gearing is a little long but there is no dead space and I can ear shift. It has excellent front grip. Its lack of rotation is possibly its Achilles Heal. The breaks are good, not too touchy and because of the excellent soak not too light. Use of the E-break is a must in the tight corners. If I spent the time to learn the car better I could knock some time off, but not much. Overall I like the car and enjoy it, but its times just aren't up to the others.
Motor City Hami (MotorCytHamilton):
Fiat 500 1.2 8V Lounge SS '08:
1:56.923. 1:56.952. 1:57.439.
The straight line acceleration is amazing. Unfortunately the soak is sub-par. Because of that its hard to deliver the massive (Ma-Hoo-Sive) torque at the end of the cars power band. It also has long gears that make it difficult to keep the power down. If you try to shift while going uphill you lose all your momentum (both vehicular and drivetrain). A good car but difficult to drive. It would be a simple "point and shoot" car but for the lack if soak which makes it hard to hold the corner and pull the back end and still power out.
Onboy123:
Honda Jazz 1.4 (fit?):
1:56.078. 1:57.422. 1:57.984:
My first couple of laps were frustrating. All the other cars (even the magical Kusabi by ACSR) once I got them to the correct rotational twist I didn't have to worry about oversteer. In this car oversteer is a "problem," or at least an option. My times went like this: 1:59.0xx, 1:58.7xx, 1:57.9xx, 1:56.078. Once you learn to enter the corner cautiously enough and balance the oversteer on mid- and corner exit this car rocks. "Balanced Aggression" would be a good name for this car. A heavy hitter in the right hands. This is the 427 Cobra of the FF Shootout. The breaks are a little lacking, and require more space to properly slow the car. The suspension has difficulty keeping up with the bumps, and thats this cars biggest con. If it could soak better it would shred this course with the best of them. All-in-all a great car, especially if your style fits it. I can't wait to try it on LSeca.
Because of the cars attitude it cuts through the Ss' like a Ginsue Machine. Love the color, especially once it gets dirty.
JollyGreen (thelitch77):
Honda CR-Z '10:
1:57.069. 1:57.516. 1:57.878. Smooth. E-break is a must on some corners.
Edit: Updated times:
1:56.638. 1:56.948. 1:57.084:
Lovin' it. Good soak, it takes all the bumps well and the jumps flat. Good gearing, except that it has a tendency to sit at one rpm range (say, @ 6.5) and staying there (in fourth gear from 60mph to 82mph) which makes shifting by ear difficult. Good front grip, and the breaks are excellent. Goldilocks of rotation: not too much, not too little, just right. The E-break isn't needed once you get used to the car. Possibly the most consistent car yet. If it could deliver more torque (possibly a tranny problem, but more likely LSD, just don't quote me on it) it would fly. I like the car/wheel color combo.
Diogo G. (werty_56-1):
Volks Lupo 1.4 "Sunday Driver", '02:
2:00.904. 2:01.851. 2:02.074. Ugh! Uninspired
Edit: Updated times:
2:00.538. 2:01.733. 2:01.983:
I did six laps, and I had to force myself to do that many. This car is painful to drive. Hows the gearing? I cant tell. Touch the breaks lite or slam them it won't matter, they're pretty much nonexistent. E-break? Never needed it. It all comes down to one thing: absolutely no soak. None.
Theo777 (Zigatan):
Nissan Micra "MicraMachine", '03:
1:58.198. 1:58.463. 1:58.742. A good ride. The tranny is a little short for this track. Enjoyable.
Edit: Updated times:
1:56.460. 1:56.985. 1:57.172:
A very nice neutral tune. It will accept more than one driving style and still perform. Gears might be a smidge too long, but I can ear shift. Rotation is excellent, but the soak is sub-par and doesn't allow the car to hang the corners with the best. Breaks are good and help with rotation well when appropriate. (All that with just one lap.) That fastest lap could have gone much better, but because of the lack of soak I flew wide on the last corner and probably lost at least half a second. If I allowed myself more time I have no doubt that I could set an excellent time, but the sub-par soak doesn't allow for enough consistency. Looking forward to LSeca, this car should do well.
Jkineary #Desp:
Fiat 500 Rally (fiat 500 1.2 8V?):
1:58.137. 1:58.396. 1:58.688. A solid ride. Feels like the best breaks I've tested. The tranny is very long. If it was shorter it could probably lay the power down better.
Edit: Updated times:
1:58.429. 1:59.097. 1:59.900:
The gears aren't long, but the car lacks torque, or at least the ability to lay it down. Soak is so-so, but somehow the front feels like it has good grip. Rotation is lacking for the tight horseshoe corners and the E-break is often needed.
JohnnyBoy532:
Honda CR-Z '10:
1:57.924. 1:58.163. 1.58.380. Hands down the best CR-Z. Like the other Z's it's hard to rotate.
Edit: Updated times:
1:55.912. 1:56.137. 1:56.144:
Good soak, this car rides the bumps like a champ. And because of the soak: good front end grip and breaks. The back end could use a little more skankieness (aka oversteer), its hard to get the rear end loose enough on some corners. If your driving style suits a slight understeer then you could rock this car. Its straight line acceleration is good but its lack of rotation makes it hard to apply gas through the corner exit.
DigitalBaka:
Audi A2 1.4 '02, "Allroad":
1:56.980. 1:57.535. 1:57.722:
Holy torque! Bat-tuner! This car has just enough soak to allow for very good acceleration and front end grip. The lack of rotation is this cars downfall. It will twist, but you have to manipulate it to such a degree to produce enough twist that you kill your momentum. A great car to learn how to manipulate "situational oversteer."
moparisgod #krenkme:
Fiat 500 1.2 8V Lounge SS '08: 1:57.182. 1:57.583. 1:58.2
87. Another excellent car. Good front end grip. Good rotation.
Edit: Updated times:
1:55.501. 1:55.911. 1:56.784:
Amazing front end grip. Which helps the excellent breaks; not too heavy, not too light. Good rotation, very little manipulation is needed to get its rear to come round. The soak is good, I can't see how he gets such amazing grip with merely good soak. The gears are ok, I can ear shift and they are well spaced to help deliver the amazing acceleration, but even on this track I found myself reaching for 6th gear and it wasn't there. A joy to drive, its easy to be consistent and deliver great times lap after lap. If you prefer understeer to oversteer then this car can perform as well as ACSRs'. I was at least .500 up on my ghost on some laps, but 'what I lose on the sweeps I gain on the rounds,' as they say.
Tris_73:
Honda Ballade Sports CR-X 1.5Si '83:
1:57.581. 1:57.791. 1:58.093:
Amazing balance between acceleration, front end grip, rotation, and breaks. What a car to end on. The most elegant car on the list. Throttle control is called for more than any other. Most of the cars on the list I'm 100% on the throttle through the corner exit, trying to pull the rear end into line. With this car, because everything is so well balanced, I ease into the breaks, then ease into the throttle, as I would on a Tarmac course. Unfortunately the soak is slightly sub-par. Breaking from high speed is difficult and trail-breaking at high speeds is nigh impossible. All-in-all great at slow speed corners, not so good at high speed corners.
Edit: updated with vehicles.
Edit2: added JKinnerly
Edit3: adding retests times and notes.
Edit4: remaped names and cars.
-----------
Laguna Seca Group B Times and Notes
All aids off, ABS 1, Sports Hard Tyres.
My driving line is more contained this time and at most I'll put two tyres on the blue rumble strips, think GTAcademy with cones. I'm doing as many laps as I feel as needed to get an honest decent lap out of the car. Some will need only 6, but I'll try not to do more than 20. This is only due to me having to adapt my driving style to the car.
Will edit with updates.
Desperado:
Honda CR-Z '10, "Katana":
1:44.839. 1:45.075. 1:45.231:
Almost no feel to the car. No, wait, FF @ 1? Boost it back to 7. Ok, (more laps), very little feel still. But I just came off of hours on dirt so... Smooth is the word I'll use. Gears are nicely spaced and I can ear shift. Breaks are a tad heavy, 100%, even 70% is rarely called for. Rotation is nice but not great, but thats only relevant if I overshoot the corner. Corner entry is excellent, you know exactly where it's going go. Mid corner is hard to test on this track, there's no long mid to high speed corner, except perhaps corner 4. Corner exit is good and the grip is stable and predictable. Even when I overpush the car it recovers evenly and quickly. A nice balanced smooth ride.
Krenkme:
Toyota Vitz RS Turbo '02, "Phyllobates Terribilis":
1:44.655. 1:45.110. 1:46.037:
Love the breaks, good consistency and they don't exaggerate over- or under-steer. Much more feel than Harveys' (good to know it wasn't all in my head). The line between grip and slip is fairly broad, trail breaking is easy and fun, and I don't have to worry about snap over- or under-steer. The gears are ok, but I find myself shifting at odd times, killing the momentum. Third gear is a little short. Trail-breaking is easy but its hard to consistently hit the apexes, and with the very noticeable understeer correcting a bad entry mid-corner is nigh impossible.
C-Zeta (V16T91):
Mazda Demio Sport '03:
1:44.638. 1:45.652. 1:45.843:
If you miss an apex it's your own fault! In the first corner I felt the cars superior feedback. Breaking is smooth and even, but I never used more than 30%. Rotation is great and really helps corner exit. Trail-breaking is fantastic and corner entry is flawless.
NewDriver2 (OTS_NewDriver2):
Audi A2 1.4 '02:
1:47.523. 1:48.376. 1:48.622
Breaking is a bit lacking. Because of this corner entry greatly suffers. Corner exit suffers from the understeer. Gearing is good, well spaced. The shift points seem well synced to this track. The car has a good feel but it lacks front end grip, which varies I think due to the corner banking/camber.
Jackthalad (Crystalbuds):
Honda Ballade Sports CR-X 1.5Si '83:
1:45.325. 1:45.413. 1:46.084. :
Great feel. Front grip is lacking and that effects every other part of the car. Breaks have great consistency and pedal length. Balance and rotation is good, but I'm finding it difficult to hit the apexes consistently, either over breaking or running wide. Gearing is so good its bland. Or maybe thats the muffler sound. A fun car with just enough "attitude" (trail-breaking to acceleration rotation and smooth transition). For some reason on my least favorite corner, just before the uphill to the corkscrew, this car can do 6mph (76mph) faster than any other car, consistently.
ACSR421:
Mazda Kusabi '03:
1:43.429. 1:44.560:
Unbelievable handling in every way. The breaks alone are enough to make this car a powerhouse: they're even and consistent, using the full pedal when needed. The stopping distance is half that of any other vehicle yet. Perfect rotation and balance. Are you sure this isn't a 4wd? The gears are well spaced, even power throughout, synced to the track, and ear shifting is easy. Several other vehicles pause or bog down at certain rpms, even in the power band, this car does not. I could drive a bus through the space between grip and slip. My first lap was 1:44.560, my second 1:43.429, and my break points were way too soon. I won't bother doing a third lap, it would just make the other tuners cry. FF bliss. I dub thee David, the giant slayer! (Would it be favoritism if I changed my banner to I (heart) ACSRs' Tunes?)
TrackRipper123 (Ziz528):
Mazda Kusabi Concept '03:
1:42.085. 1:42.545. 1:43.263:
Not nearly as disappointing as I thought it would be after ACSRs' Kusabi, lol. This car is only slightly better than every other vehicle rather than leagues. Breaking is 2/3 the others, even, and full pedal. Turn-in (corner entry) is spot on. Rotation and balance are exquisite. Gearing is indistingushable (sp?) from ACSRs', except perhaps even better synced to this track. I hit my breaking point on max rpm on at least two, if not four, corners. Not as much feel as ACSRs', but still more than most. Grip - slip = alot! A massively forgiving tune; every apex, every lap. A superior tune in every way. This could easily give ACSRs' tune a run for its money.
// note: since I plan on retesting every vehicle once I become better acquainted with the track with FFs, ACSR (or another!) could post better laps later. //
OSE-CAP-SHADOW:
IST-R (Toyota ist 1.5s '02):
1:46.028. 1:46.058. 1:46.793:
TC: 5? Not a chance! Great feel (despite the stock TC:5 somehow). The breaks feel good, full pedal, but might need more distance than other cars. Turn in and balance is intuitive. Corner exit is very good, very little understeer on full gas. Gears are long, very long, fifth isn't needed, and I'm hitting first on two corners. It doesn't bog, but it could use the torque/hp its losing. This car could perhaps use some more "attitude," rotating more under gas and breaking, but if your style suits a neutral car you'll like the feel if this car.
LineR32:
Ka Kit Car:
1:58.643. 1:58.756. 1:59.236:
Oh, yeah. Understeer. Decent feel, but with a smidge of deadspace. Gearing is ok, it bogs at times, but I can ear shift. One of the downsides of not looking at the tunes' specs is that I don't get to see the torque and hp curves. I think early shifting is called for, rather than redlining it. Rotation is lacking and that hurts corner exit. The breaks are sub-par.Corner entry is difficult and hard to judge. This car has a serious lack of front grip and it is affecting every other aspect. I found it hard to produce consistent laps, especially on cold tyres.
Motor City Hami (MotorCytHamilton):
Fiat 500 1.2 8V Lounge SS '08:
1:44.370. 1:44.968. 1:45.245:
This car has a very heavy wheel. Turn in is good. Front grip is great. But the breaks are too heavy, I'm rarely using more than 30% pedal. Acceleration is above par. The gears are good, I can ear shift, but they don't seem as synced to this track as well as they could be. The balance is very neutral, very little under-steer, usually only on max gas at corner exit. Most of the time the car feels balanced between under- and over-steer. I noticed that the inside front tyre likes to spin under corner exit acceleration (:cough: LSD :cough.
Onboy123:
Honda Jazz 1.4 (fit?):
1:44.757. 1:45.283. 1:45.852:
Very solid wheel, but bland through the entire turning range. Front grip is ok, but its hard to know when I'm about to slip. Gearing is ok, it doesn't bog, but are a bit long. Breaks are good, it has full range through the pedal, and they are predictable and consistent. Turn in and corner exit are not consistent because of the bland wheel. Perhaps a good car for a DS3? I'll never know.
JollyGreen (thelitch77):
Honda CR-Z '10:
1:46.358. 1:46.699. 1:47.589:
Better than good feel. After the other CR-Zs, it is a sigh of relief. It has understeer, especially under heavy acceleration. But the understeer is completely manageable. Turn in and corner exit are very predictable, one of the best. Breaking is good, full pedal. Trail breaking doesn't apply oversteer. Gearing is long, I do use sixth gear, but just barely. A fun car I could get used to.
Diogo G. (werty_56-1):
Volks Lupo 1.4 "Sunday Driver", '02:
1:46.806. 1:47.360. 1:47.653:
A heavy wheel, but, fortunately, not quite as bland as OnBoys'. Almost perfectly/blandly neutral between over- and under-steer. Only the slightest adjustments to inputs is needed to adjust corner entry, 'every apex, every lap.' "Attitude" (pivoting) is very responsive but forgiving. Grip - slip is so un-noticable that its hard to know what's happening to the tyres after they slip. The gears are long, ear shifting is easy, but they don't lay the power down well enough. Overall corner entry is great, corner exit it lacking. A fun car.
Theo777 (Zigatan):
Nissan Micra "MicraMachine", '03:
1:43.633. 1:44.755 1:45.125:
Now that's feeling! Perhaps a smidge "squishy" on entry, but I know what's happening to the tyres through the complete range of input controls. Excellent range between 'grip and slip,' without sacrificing feel or turn-in accuracy. Corner exit is excellent, but the long gears hurt acceleration. Ear shifting is easy, good tone. The breaks are excellent, full pedal and predictable. The tyres will accept full gas on tight corners, and even with red melted tyres it will still turn and accelerate out. Sweet. I can "burn" into a corner, swing it 'round on its attitude with full gas and burn out.Amazing fun but it kills my times. An excellent car to learn understeer on. I gotta get me one of these. If you could add a sixth gear, and sync it, it would be a top-tier car.
Jkineary #Desp:
Fiat 500 Rally (fiat 500 1.2 8V?):
1:49.490. 1:49.694. 1:49.975:
Excellent breaks (full pedal range and excellent stopping distance, two thumbs up.) and turn in. The feeling is balanced well between heavy and light, but it lacks a full sense of feedback. The gears are very long. Very. This car has no acceleration. Good balance between over- and under-steer, without being bland.
JohnnyBoy532:
Honda CR-Z '10:
1:44.481. 1:45.161. 1:45.774:
Off the line the acceleration of this car grabbed me by my throat and said, "Your mine, b!t¢π!" I'm just trying to hold on and not let it spank me too hard. Part of that is the excellent gearing, the other part the excellent rotation. Either the front grip or breaks are a tad under par. Noticeable understeer, but more than manageable with the full range of feel the wheel gives back (perhaps a smidge too weak in the middle, but I'm not complaining). Respect this car at all times or you'll be eating the wall. I dub thee "The Hot Ex-Girlfriend." Now to grab it by the hair and try to get some laps in.
DigitalBaka:
Audi A2 1.4 '02, "Allroad":
1:46.035. 1:46.293. 1:46.459:
It rips through the tightly packed gears, then slides past the apex. Good gearing. But the front grip is appalling, and the breaks are incredibly touchy. I barely use 30%. Any more any they just lock up. At least its well balanced, that is to say both ends will slide past the apex evenly. The car is manageable but I have to break very early, and accelerate through the apex gently, absolutely no trail-breaking allowed.
moparisgod #krenkme:
Fiat 500 1.2 8V Lounge SS '08:
1:45.390. 1:45.854. 1:45.876:
I maxed 5th before the first corner, every lap. Turn in is, umm, interesting. Eager? Once I got used too its eagerness its balance and rotation are excellent. An exceptionally consistent car. Great breaks. If it had the gearing it would kill.
Tris_73:
Honda Ballade Sports CR-X 1.5Si '83:
1:45.817. 1:46.163. 1:46.316:
Exceptionally intuitive input controls. Everything: wheel feel, breaks, turn in and corner exit, even the gearing. I feel like I could take my hands off the wheel, sit back, squint a little, and control it mentally. The gap between grip n slip isn't a mile wide, but it's big enough, and you know at every moment just how much grip you have left. I dub thee, "The Mentalist."
Ok, after almost 12 hours straight yesterday I completed almost all the Class B (430pp) cars on Toscana.
For each vehicle I'll list the tuner, three best times and any notes I made about the vehicle.
Desperado:
Honda CR-Z '10, "Katana"
1.59.348. 1:59.561. 1:59.751. Again: "Rotate, Mother!, rotate." I need to take this car back out and try it again. I can probably knock at least another half second off. I didn't use the E-break till several cars later. This car would probably work better with the E-break.
Edit: Updated times: 1:56.765. 1:57.403. 1:57.565. See the post laster on this page for my notes.
Krenkme:
Toyota Vitz RS Turbo '02, "Phyllobates Terribilis"
1:57.140. 1:57.583. 1.58.824. Easy to drive and more than any other car: consistent.
Edit: Updated times: 1:56.513. 1:56.907. 1:57.073. Again: consistent. Good gears. Good front end grip. Good rotation. But good god, why olive green?! At least on Toscana the dirt makes it look good. Overall a very competitive car. With seat time I'm sure I could knock more time off, but I could say the same for all the cars. I got the 1:56.907 on my first retry. On my second lap I was up on that ghost by over .380 in the first sector but flobbed it. Short dabs of the E-break at just the right spot are useful, but more is too much. With practice I could do it without the E-break.
C-Zeta (V16T91):
Mazda Demio Sport '03:
1:56.263. 1:57.704. 1:58.150:
First thought: the gears are very long. There's alot of dead space between three and four, the most common shift on this track. Most cars I think about my line and shifting is mostly automatic (lol, get it, automatic?). The opposite is true in this car. I'm downshifting alot more than any other car, sometimes up-down two or even three times for the longer corners.
The quick time is a freak lap. The long gears make it difficult to keep the power down. It's more a coin flip than skill if you're in the correct gear, one wrong bump and you lose all your torque. If you learn to do it correctly the excellent front grip and almost perfect rotation make this car a powerhouse. Do not touch the E-break, it's not needed, all you'll do is kill your momentum. The breaks are excellent and help the rotation once you become familiar with it's break/pre-entry points. All-in-all a great car, with a massive minis.
NewDriver2 (OTS_NewDriver2):
Audi A2 1.4 '02:
1:59.554. 1:59.959. 1:59.961
First: I love the gearing. Its the smoothest yet. It lays down the power at all times. Throttle input control is needed more on this car than most others. When I can hit the correct entry speed the car rotates well. Unfortunately the suspension doesn't allow the vehicle to soak any of the bumps, the front end simply can't hang the longer corners or "infenion" corners. Overall it is sub-par with massive potential: fix the "soak" and watch it shred the competition.
Jackthalad (Crystalbuds):
Honda Ballade Sports CR-X 1.5Si '83:
1:59.441. 2:00.136. 2:00.316:
Sub-par soak, and a little more rotation would help. But the acceleration and throttle control are good. The lack if soak kills the front end grip. I like the gearing but it's lost in the cars sub-par times. One wrong bump in a corner and your line is gone.
ACSR421:
Mazda Kusabi '03:
1:56.191. 1.57.346. 1.57.755. Three corners. Thats it. I knew within three corners. My first thought was, "I would drive my grandmother to the hospital in this car." Nuff said. (Will you tune me a Fireblade?)
Edit: Updated times:
1:55.089. 1:56.153. 1:56.787:
Amazing grip and perfect rotation. The gears are spaced so that shifting is automatic, the engine sound is all I need which helps me keep my eye on the road (the complete opposite of Desperado's CR-Z and NewDriver2s' A2 1.4 {just to name 2} which forced me to keep "one eye" on the tack at all times). This car is everything I remember from from my first try, and now that I'm more experienced on this track, it's even better. The suspension soaks up everything, except it hits heavy on the front end on the jumps sometimes. The breaks are rarely needed but when you do be gentle, they work as well as everything else. The E-break isn't needed, the cars' perfect rotation makes it useless. Hands down the best car I've tested. I only did 5 laps on the retry, less than half the laps for any other car. As soon as I'm done with this competition I'm making myself one.
TrackRipper123 (Ziz528):
Mazda Kusabi Concept '03:
1:57.176. 1.57.465. 1:57.726. A solid ride. Good throttle/brake rotation.
Edit: Updated times:
1:55.566. 1:55.601. 1:55.659:
Good at everything: front grip, rotation, gearing, soak (suspension). Almost drab it's so good. Shifting can be done by ear, it has smooth torque through each gear, but they might be just a smidge too long. I find myself downshifting more than I would like. Rotation is intuitive. Grip is excellent, even on "infenion"corners. The soak takes all the bumps out. A very smooth ride for this track. If your driving style suits this car then it could be competitive against ACSR421s', unfortunately for TrackRipper my style fits ACSRs' better. I'm avoiding looking at the other testers times and notes so I can remain unprejudiced (as much as I can). I'd like to see if someone else can make this car sing. It's got the voice for it. At one time I was .780 up on my ghost. But I lose it at the hairpin every time.
OSE-CAP-SHADOW:
IST-R (Toyota ist 1.5s '02):
1:57.735. 1:57.790. 1:57.844
The suspension doesn't soak the bumps very well. The breaks are heavy and anything more than a light touch will cause it to slide. The gearing is good and allows the torque to be layed down consistently. The rotation is a bit lacking, probably because of the lack of soak. A decent car but it can't hold with the best. Perhaps it's better on LSeca?
LineR32:
Ka Kit Car:
2:02.227. 2:02.279. 2:02.469. Uninspired.
Edit: Updated times:
1:59.027. 1:59.183. 1:59.988:
Ok, the only thing uninspired was my driving. This suspension soaks everything. The gearing is a little long but there is no dead space and I can ear shift. It has excellent front grip. Its lack of rotation is possibly its Achilles Heal. The breaks are good, not too touchy and because of the excellent soak not too light. Use of the E-break is a must in the tight corners. If I spent the time to learn the car better I could knock some time off, but not much. Overall I like the car and enjoy it, but its times just aren't up to the others.
Motor City Hami (MotorCytHamilton):
Fiat 500 1.2 8V Lounge SS '08:
1:56.923. 1:56.952. 1:57.439.
The straight line acceleration is amazing. Unfortunately the soak is sub-par. Because of that its hard to deliver the massive (Ma-Hoo-Sive) torque at the end of the cars power band. It also has long gears that make it difficult to keep the power down. If you try to shift while going uphill you lose all your momentum (both vehicular and drivetrain). A good car but difficult to drive. It would be a simple "point and shoot" car but for the lack if soak which makes it hard to hold the corner and pull the back end and still power out.
Onboy123:
Honda Jazz 1.4 (fit?):
1:56.078. 1:57.422. 1:57.984:
My first couple of laps were frustrating. All the other cars (even the magical Kusabi by ACSR) once I got them to the correct rotational twist I didn't have to worry about oversteer. In this car oversteer is a "problem," or at least an option. My times went like this: 1:59.0xx, 1:58.7xx, 1:57.9xx, 1:56.078. Once you learn to enter the corner cautiously enough and balance the oversteer on mid- and corner exit this car rocks. "Balanced Aggression" would be a good name for this car. A heavy hitter in the right hands. This is the 427 Cobra of the FF Shootout. The breaks are a little lacking, and require more space to properly slow the car. The suspension has difficulty keeping up with the bumps, and thats this cars biggest con. If it could soak better it would shred this course with the best of them. All-in-all a great car, especially if your style fits it. I can't wait to try it on LSeca.
Because of the cars attitude it cuts through the Ss' like a Ginsue Machine. Love the color, especially once it gets dirty.
JollyGreen (thelitch77):
Honda CR-Z '10:
1:57.069. 1:57.516. 1:57.878. Smooth. E-break is a must on some corners.
Edit: Updated times:
1:56.638. 1:56.948. 1:57.084:
Lovin' it. Good soak, it takes all the bumps well and the jumps flat. Good gearing, except that it has a tendency to sit at one rpm range (say, @ 6.5) and staying there (in fourth gear from 60mph to 82mph) which makes shifting by ear difficult. Good front grip, and the breaks are excellent. Goldilocks of rotation: not too much, not too little, just right. The E-break isn't needed once you get used to the car. Possibly the most consistent car yet. If it could deliver more torque (possibly a tranny problem, but more likely LSD, just don't quote me on it) it would fly. I like the car/wheel color combo.
Diogo G. (werty_56-1):
Volks Lupo 1.4 "Sunday Driver", '02:
2:00.904. 2:01.851. 2:02.074. Ugh! Uninspired
Edit: Updated times:
2:00.538. 2:01.733. 2:01.983:
I did six laps, and I had to force myself to do that many. This car is painful to drive. Hows the gearing? I cant tell. Touch the breaks lite or slam them it won't matter, they're pretty much nonexistent. E-break? Never needed it. It all comes down to one thing: absolutely no soak. None.
Theo777 (Zigatan):
Nissan Micra "MicraMachine", '03:
1:58.198. 1:58.463. 1:58.742. A good ride. The tranny is a little short for this track. Enjoyable.
Edit: Updated times:
1:56.460. 1:56.985. 1:57.172:
A very nice neutral tune. It will accept more than one driving style and still perform. Gears might be a smidge too long, but I can ear shift. Rotation is excellent, but the soak is sub-par and doesn't allow the car to hang the corners with the best. Breaks are good and help with rotation well when appropriate. (All that with just one lap.) That fastest lap could have gone much better, but because of the lack of soak I flew wide on the last corner and probably lost at least half a second. If I allowed myself more time I have no doubt that I could set an excellent time, but the sub-par soak doesn't allow for enough consistency. Looking forward to LSeca, this car should do well.
Jkineary #Desp:
Fiat 500 Rally (fiat 500 1.2 8V?):
1:58.137. 1:58.396. 1:58.688. A solid ride. Feels like the best breaks I've tested. The tranny is very long. If it was shorter it could probably lay the power down better.
Edit: Updated times:
1:58.429. 1:59.097. 1:59.900:
The gears aren't long, but the car lacks torque, or at least the ability to lay it down. Soak is so-so, but somehow the front feels like it has good grip. Rotation is lacking for the tight horseshoe corners and the E-break is often needed.
JohnnyBoy532:
Honda CR-Z '10:
1:57.924. 1:58.163. 1.58.380. Hands down the best CR-Z. Like the other Z's it's hard to rotate.
Edit: Updated times:
1:55.912. 1:56.137. 1:56.144:
Good soak, this car rides the bumps like a champ. And because of the soak: good front end grip and breaks. The back end could use a little more skankieness (aka oversteer), its hard to get the rear end loose enough on some corners. If your driving style suits a slight understeer then you could rock this car. Its straight line acceleration is good but its lack of rotation makes it hard to apply gas through the corner exit.
DigitalBaka:
Audi A2 1.4 '02, "Allroad":
1:56.980. 1:57.535. 1:57.722:
Holy torque! Bat-tuner! This car has just enough soak to allow for very good acceleration and front end grip. The lack of rotation is this cars downfall. It will twist, but you have to manipulate it to such a degree to produce enough twist that you kill your momentum. A great car to learn how to manipulate "situational oversteer."
moparisgod #krenkme:
Fiat 500 1.2 8V Lounge SS '08: 1:57.182. 1:57.583. 1:58.2
87. Another excellent car. Good front end grip. Good rotation.
Edit: Updated times:
1:55.501. 1:55.911. 1:56.784:
Amazing front end grip. Which helps the excellent breaks; not too heavy, not too light. Good rotation, very little manipulation is needed to get its rear to come round. The soak is good, I can't see how he gets such amazing grip with merely good soak. The gears are ok, I can ear shift and they are well spaced to help deliver the amazing acceleration, but even on this track I found myself reaching for 6th gear and it wasn't there. A joy to drive, its easy to be consistent and deliver great times lap after lap. If you prefer understeer to oversteer then this car can perform as well as ACSRs'. I was at least .500 up on my ghost on some laps, but 'what I lose on the sweeps I gain on the rounds,' as they say.
Tris_73:
Honda Ballade Sports CR-X 1.5Si '83:
1:57.581. 1:57.791. 1:58.093:
Amazing balance between acceleration, front end grip, rotation, and breaks. What a car to end on. The most elegant car on the list. Throttle control is called for more than any other. Most of the cars on the list I'm 100% on the throttle through the corner exit, trying to pull the rear end into line. With this car, because everything is so well balanced, I ease into the breaks, then ease into the throttle, as I would on a Tarmac course. Unfortunately the soak is slightly sub-par. Breaking from high speed is difficult and trail-breaking at high speeds is nigh impossible. All-in-all great at slow speed corners, not so good at high speed corners.
Edit: updated with vehicles.
Edit2: added JKinnerly
Edit3: adding retests times and notes.
Edit4: remaped names and cars.
-----------
Laguna Seca Group B Times and Notes
All aids off, ABS 1, Sports Hard Tyres.
My driving line is more contained this time and at most I'll put two tyres on the blue rumble strips, think GTAcademy with cones. I'm doing as many laps as I feel as needed to get an honest decent lap out of the car. Some will need only 6, but I'll try not to do more than 20. This is only due to me having to adapt my driving style to the car.
Will edit with updates.
Desperado:
Honda CR-Z '10, "Katana":
1:44.839. 1:45.075. 1:45.231:
Almost no feel to the car. No, wait, FF @ 1? Boost it back to 7. Ok, (more laps), very little feel still. But I just came off of hours on dirt so... Smooth is the word I'll use. Gears are nicely spaced and I can ear shift. Breaks are a tad heavy, 100%, even 70% is rarely called for. Rotation is nice but not great, but thats only relevant if I overshoot the corner. Corner entry is excellent, you know exactly where it's going go. Mid corner is hard to test on this track, there's no long mid to high speed corner, except perhaps corner 4. Corner exit is good and the grip is stable and predictable. Even when I overpush the car it recovers evenly and quickly. A nice balanced smooth ride.
Krenkme:
Toyota Vitz RS Turbo '02, "Phyllobates Terribilis":
1:44.655. 1:45.110. 1:46.037:
Love the breaks, good consistency and they don't exaggerate over- or under-steer. Much more feel than Harveys' (good to know it wasn't all in my head). The line between grip and slip is fairly broad, trail breaking is easy and fun, and I don't have to worry about snap over- or under-steer. The gears are ok, but I find myself shifting at odd times, killing the momentum. Third gear is a little short. Trail-breaking is easy but its hard to consistently hit the apexes, and with the very noticeable understeer correcting a bad entry mid-corner is nigh impossible.
C-Zeta (V16T91):
Mazda Demio Sport '03:
1:44.638. 1:45.652. 1:45.843:
If you miss an apex it's your own fault! In the first corner I felt the cars superior feedback. Breaking is smooth and even, but I never used more than 30%. Rotation is great and really helps corner exit. Trail-breaking is fantastic and corner entry is flawless.
NewDriver2 (OTS_NewDriver2):
Audi A2 1.4 '02:
1:47.523. 1:48.376. 1:48.622
Breaking is a bit lacking. Because of this corner entry greatly suffers. Corner exit suffers from the understeer. Gearing is good, well spaced. The shift points seem well synced to this track. The car has a good feel but it lacks front end grip, which varies I think due to the corner banking/camber.
Jackthalad (Crystalbuds):
Honda Ballade Sports CR-X 1.5Si '83:
1:45.325. 1:45.413. 1:46.084. :
Great feel. Front grip is lacking and that effects every other part of the car. Breaks have great consistency and pedal length. Balance and rotation is good, but I'm finding it difficult to hit the apexes consistently, either over breaking or running wide. Gearing is so good its bland. Or maybe thats the muffler sound. A fun car with just enough "attitude" (trail-breaking to acceleration rotation and smooth transition). For some reason on my least favorite corner, just before the uphill to the corkscrew, this car can do 6mph (76mph) faster than any other car, consistently.
ACSR421:
Mazda Kusabi '03:
1:43.429. 1:44.560:
Unbelievable handling in every way. The breaks alone are enough to make this car a powerhouse: they're even and consistent, using the full pedal when needed. The stopping distance is half that of any other vehicle yet. Perfect rotation and balance. Are you sure this isn't a 4wd? The gears are well spaced, even power throughout, synced to the track, and ear shifting is easy. Several other vehicles pause or bog down at certain rpms, even in the power band, this car does not. I could drive a bus through the space between grip and slip. My first lap was 1:44.560, my second 1:43.429, and my break points were way too soon. I won't bother doing a third lap, it would just make the other tuners cry. FF bliss. I dub thee David, the giant slayer! (Would it be favoritism if I changed my banner to I (heart) ACSRs' Tunes?)
TrackRipper123 (Ziz528):
Mazda Kusabi Concept '03:
1:42.085. 1:42.545. 1:43.263:
Not nearly as disappointing as I thought it would be after ACSRs' Kusabi, lol. This car is only slightly better than every other vehicle rather than leagues. Breaking is 2/3 the others, even, and full pedal. Turn-in (corner entry) is spot on. Rotation and balance are exquisite. Gearing is indistingushable (sp?) from ACSRs', except perhaps even better synced to this track. I hit my breaking point on max rpm on at least two, if not four, corners. Not as much feel as ACSRs', but still more than most. Grip - slip = alot! A massively forgiving tune; every apex, every lap. A superior tune in every way. This could easily give ACSRs' tune a run for its money.
// note: since I plan on retesting every vehicle once I become better acquainted with the track with FFs, ACSR (or another!) could post better laps later. //
OSE-CAP-SHADOW:
IST-R (Toyota ist 1.5s '02):
1:46.028. 1:46.058. 1:46.793:
TC: 5? Not a chance! Great feel (despite the stock TC:5 somehow). The breaks feel good, full pedal, but might need more distance than other cars. Turn in and balance is intuitive. Corner exit is very good, very little understeer on full gas. Gears are long, very long, fifth isn't needed, and I'm hitting first on two corners. It doesn't bog, but it could use the torque/hp its losing. This car could perhaps use some more "attitude," rotating more under gas and breaking, but if your style suits a neutral car you'll like the feel if this car.
LineR32:
Ka Kit Car:
1:58.643. 1:58.756. 1:59.236:
Oh, yeah. Understeer. Decent feel, but with a smidge of deadspace. Gearing is ok, it bogs at times, but I can ear shift. One of the downsides of not looking at the tunes' specs is that I don't get to see the torque and hp curves. I think early shifting is called for, rather than redlining it. Rotation is lacking and that hurts corner exit. The breaks are sub-par.Corner entry is difficult and hard to judge. This car has a serious lack of front grip and it is affecting every other aspect. I found it hard to produce consistent laps, especially on cold tyres.
Motor City Hami (MotorCytHamilton):
Fiat 500 1.2 8V Lounge SS '08:
1:44.370. 1:44.968. 1:45.245:
This car has a very heavy wheel. Turn in is good. Front grip is great. But the breaks are too heavy, I'm rarely using more than 30% pedal. Acceleration is above par. The gears are good, I can ear shift, but they don't seem as synced to this track as well as they could be. The balance is very neutral, very little under-steer, usually only on max gas at corner exit. Most of the time the car feels balanced between under- and over-steer. I noticed that the inside front tyre likes to spin under corner exit acceleration (:cough: LSD :cough
.Onboy123:
Honda Jazz 1.4 (fit?):
1:44.757. 1:45.283. 1:45.852:
Very solid wheel, but bland through the entire turning range. Front grip is ok, but its hard to know when I'm about to slip. Gearing is ok, it doesn't bog, but are a bit long. Breaks are good, it has full range through the pedal, and they are predictable and consistent. Turn in and corner exit are not consistent because of the bland wheel. Perhaps a good car for a DS3? I'll never know.
JollyGreen (thelitch77):
Honda CR-Z '10:
1:46.358. 1:46.699. 1:47.589:
Better than good feel. After the other CR-Zs, it is a sigh of relief. It has understeer, especially under heavy acceleration. But the understeer is completely manageable. Turn in and corner exit are very predictable, one of the best. Breaking is good, full pedal. Trail breaking doesn't apply oversteer. Gearing is long, I do use sixth gear, but just barely. A fun car I could get used to.
Diogo G. (werty_56-1):
Volks Lupo 1.4 "Sunday Driver", '02:
1:46.806. 1:47.360. 1:47.653:
A heavy wheel, but, fortunately, not quite as bland as OnBoys'. Almost perfectly/blandly neutral between over- and under-steer. Only the slightest adjustments to inputs is needed to adjust corner entry, 'every apex, every lap.' "Attitude" (pivoting) is very responsive but forgiving. Grip - slip is so un-noticable that its hard to know what's happening to the tyres after they slip. The gears are long, ear shifting is easy, but they don't lay the power down well enough. Overall corner entry is great, corner exit it lacking. A fun car.
Theo777 (Zigatan):
Nissan Micra "MicraMachine", '03:
1:43.633. 1:44.755 1:45.125:
Now that's feeling! Perhaps a smidge "squishy" on entry, but I know what's happening to the tyres through the complete range of input controls. Excellent range between 'grip and slip,' without sacrificing feel or turn-in accuracy. Corner exit is excellent, but the long gears hurt acceleration. Ear shifting is easy, good tone. The breaks are excellent, full pedal and predictable. The tyres will accept full gas on tight corners, and even with red melted tyres it will still turn and accelerate out. Sweet. I can "burn" into a corner, swing it 'round on its attitude with full gas and burn out.Amazing fun but it kills my times. An excellent car to learn understeer on. I gotta get me one of these. If you could add a sixth gear, and sync it, it would be a top-tier car.
Jkineary #Desp:
Fiat 500 Rally (fiat 500 1.2 8V?):
1:49.490. 1:49.694. 1:49.975:
Excellent breaks (full pedal range and excellent stopping distance, two thumbs up.) and turn in. The feeling is balanced well between heavy and light, but it lacks a full sense of feedback. The gears are very long. Very. This car has no acceleration. Good balance between over- and under-steer, without being bland.
JohnnyBoy532:
Honda CR-Z '10:
1:44.481. 1:45.161. 1:45.774:
Off the line the acceleration of this car grabbed me by my throat and said, "Your mine, b!t¢π!" I'm just trying to hold on and not let it spank me too hard. Part of that is the excellent gearing, the other part the excellent rotation. Either the front grip or breaks are a tad under par. Noticeable understeer, but more than manageable with the full range of feel the wheel gives back (perhaps a smidge too weak in the middle, but I'm not complaining). Respect this car at all times or you'll be eating the wall. I dub thee "The Hot Ex-Girlfriend." Now to grab it by the hair and try to get some laps in.
DigitalBaka:
Audi A2 1.4 '02, "Allroad":
1:46.035. 1:46.293. 1:46.459:
It rips through the tightly packed gears, then slides past the apex. Good gearing. But the front grip is appalling, and the breaks are incredibly touchy. I barely use 30%. Any more any they just lock up. At least its well balanced, that is to say both ends will slide past the apex evenly. The car is manageable but I have to break very early, and accelerate through the apex gently, absolutely no trail-breaking allowed.
moparisgod #krenkme:
Fiat 500 1.2 8V Lounge SS '08:
1:45.390. 1:45.854. 1:45.876:
I maxed 5th before the first corner, every lap. Turn in is, umm, interesting. Eager? Once I got used too its eagerness its balance and rotation are excellent. An exceptionally consistent car. Great breaks. If it had the gearing it would kill.
Tris_73:
Honda Ballade Sports CR-X 1.5Si '83:
1:45.817. 1:46.163. 1:46.316:
Exceptionally intuitive input controls. Everything: wheel feel, breaks, turn in and corner exit, even the gearing. I feel like I could take my hands off the wheel, sit back, squint a little, and control it mentally. The gap between grip n slip isn't a mile wide, but it's big enough, and you know at every moment just how much grip you have left. I dub thee, "The Mentalist."
Last edited:
gamerdog6482
(Banned)
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- Gamerdog6482
Still no me?
- 1,494
- Portland / Or /
- Barefoot_Driver
@GamerDog: Your review is on page 2. I'm almost done with it and should be able to finish it tonight, family willing.
-----
Edit: GamerDogs' "Red Bull" review is complete. Some day soon I will take the Bull and its Modded brother out to a track where it can properly stretch its legs.
DigitalBakas' '69 Vet (premium) is up next. It will be a long form review and if ACSR421s' Vet has similar numbers then I will do a dueling review. One Base Model review, two Modded Models, and two Tuned versions.
Base Model:
290hp, 1552kg, 451pp @ 0.0 miles.
DigitalBaka Tuned:
352hp, 1257kg, 500pp (posted stats)
ACSR421 Tuned:
373hp, 1280kg, 500pp @ 470.6 (condition unknown, numbers taken from gifted car)
At least the pp are equal.
-----
Edit: GamerDogs' "Red Bull" review is complete. Some day soon I will take the Bull and its Modded brother out to a track where it can properly stretch its legs.
DigitalBakas' '69 Vet (premium) is up next. It will be a long form review and if ACSR421s' Vet has similar numbers then I will do a dueling review. One Base Model review, two Modded Models, and two Tuned versions.
Base Model:
290hp, 1552kg, 451pp @ 0.0 miles.
DigitalBaka Tuned:
352hp, 1257kg, 500pp (posted stats)
ACSR421 Tuned:
373hp, 1280kg, 500pp @ 470.6 (condition unknown, numbers taken from gifted car)
At least the pp are equal.
Last edited:
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