Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[Blitz24]

I still don't see any signs that she is corrupted by RF.

Like everyone who believes?

MTG may not have been corrupted, it could be a factory defect.

 

[McLaren]

You know, there are a lot of subgenres of Christians, not sure if could call some specific cult "actual Chrisitans"

AFAIK, she isnt in Trump camp anymore

You know, you’d get my point if you’d stop quote clipping.

And yes, she is still very much a Trump member.

 

[inCloud]

So basically you argue that Putin and Zelensky wants to lower slavs numbers?

Zelenskiy can't stop bloodbath without significant territorial losses, Putin don't want to stop and deal with new reality.

you’d get my point if you’d stop quote clipping

I get you point. Basically what I said, but with questionable statement about "actual Christians".

 

[eran0004]

Zelenskiy can't stop bloodbath without significant territorial losses, Putin don't want to stop and deal with new reality.

But how do you justify the unconditional surrender of Ukraine? There is a bloodbath going on, sure, but it’s entirely Russia’s fault.

 

[inCloud]

But how do you justify the unconditional surrender of Ukraine

Wat? I believe that there is chance that Trump could threat both sides enough to start negotiations, at least, about freezing conflict on current positions.

Putin doesn't afraid of Biden, so this wouldn't not work with him as President, we have two years of war to confirm that. Under Biden rule Putin became brave enough to grab some land, most likely after shameful retreat from Afghanistan.

I don't believe that Trump would be directly favourable for RF, there are 0 evidence about that after 4 years of his presidency.

 

[Scaff]

Wat? I believe that there is chance that Trump could threat both sides enough to start negotiations, at least, about freezing conflict on current positions.

Trump has only ever threatened one side in this, and it's not Russia, quite the opposite, he's given Putin nothing but fawning praise.

Putin doesn't afraid of Biden, so this wouldn't not work with him as President, we have two years of war to confirm that. Under Biden rule Putin became brave enough to grab some land, most likely after shameful retreat from Afghanistan.

The retreat that Trump put in place and Biden did all he could to delay? Almost ever part of that mess was engineered by Trump.

I don't believe that Trump would be directly favourable for RF, there are 0 evidence about that after 4 years of his presidency.

That's laughably inaccurate.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/17/politics/trump-soft-on-russia/index.html

Putin bromance has US intelligence officials fearing second Trump term

Ex-president’s support for the Russian strongman has experts fretting over American interests and security sources overseas

www.theguardian.com

 

[inCloud]

Trump has only ever threatened one side in this, and it's not Russia, quite the opposite, he's given Putin nothing but fawning praise.

Trump can't threat anyone, he aint president now.

he retreat that Trump put in place and Biden did all he could to delay? Almost ever part of that mess was engineered by Trump.

And Biden played his role perfectly.

That's laughably inaccurate.

Most is real politics without any real benefits to RF. Few debatable points(Crimea, Afgan, frozen RPGs). A lot of cases tied to 2016 elections.

It was okish politic for 2016-2020. Donbass war was almost frozen, RF were busy with ISIS and COVID.

 

[Meythia]

Trump can't threat anyone, he aint president now.

His run for presidency is already a threat, being backed by the lots you claim have nothing to do with it.

 

[TexRex]

lol. lmao. A Russian fellating Trump on social media. Is there a word like "cliché" but...more?

 

[inCloud]

lol. lmao

I said Trump is inefficient powerhungry hypocritic and narcissist, not sure what you talking about.

I mostly ****ing on Biden, not praising Trump.

 

[TexRex]

I said Trump is inefficient powerhungry hypocritic and narcissist, not sure what you talking about.

I mostly ****ing on Biden, not praising Trump.

 

[Scaff]

Trump can't threat anyone, he aint president now.

And I used the past tense, try again.

And Biden played his role perfectly.

No he didn't, this has been covered before.

Most is real politics without any real benefits to RF. Few debatable points(Crimea, Afgan, frozen RPGs). A lot of cases tied to 2016 elections.

It was okish politic for 2016-2020. Donbass war was almost frozen, RF were busy with ISIS and COVID.

You said not one existed, I gave you over 30, don't then try moving the goalposts.

You were wrong, own it.

 

[McLaren]

The only negotiation Trump will ever do between Ukraine & Russia is tell Zelenskyy to end the war and give up the country to “save” his people whilst Putin will go in there and do whatever he wants. Then, the civilized world waits to see if he tries yet another offense knowing Trump will not let the US stand in his way.

Putin may not “be afraid” of Biden but he knows Trump will sit like a good ***** if he tells him to.

 

[inCloud]

And I used the past tense, try again.

He threatened Ukraine in the past? Wat?

No he didn't

He didn't what?

You said not one existed

I said there 0 evidences that he would be directly favourable to RF. I didn't say that he wasn't diplomatic in the past when it was needed. Everything is relative. Let's not forget how Democrats let Putin grab Crimea and half of Eastern Ukraine, somehow that wasn't the case when Trump was President.

The only negotiation Trump will ever do between Ukraine & Russia is tell Zelenskyy to end the war and give up the country to “save” his people whilst Putin will go in there and do whatever he wants.

Because? What makes you think so? If Trump is Putin puppet, why War happened in 2022 and not in 2016-2019? Why when Trump was President whole mess in Ukraine began to calm down and there were almost 0 casualties in 2020?

 

[McLaren]

The reason the war happened when it did and not specifically under Trump has been addressed before.

I am not on a device to properly rehash it, but you’re giving off a lot of ignorance if you don’t think Trump’s negotiating between both country’s doesn’t revolve around Ukraine fully surrendering itself & nothing happening to Russia.

 

[inCloud]

but you’re giving off a lot of ignorance if you don’t think Trump’s negotiating between both country’s doesn’t revolve around Ukraine fully surrendering itself & nothing happening to Russia.

You guys think that if you repeat that nonsense one more time it becomes more believable or what?

 

[Scaff]

He threatened Ukraine in the past? Wat?

This has been covered in this thread multiple times, but as you seem to want to ignore that.

Trump–Ukraine scandal - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

He didn't what?

Play the role perfectly, to use your words. Please pay attention.

I said there 0 evidences that he would be directly favourable to RF.

And you were wrong...

I didn't say that he wasn't diplomatic in the past when it was needed. Everything is relative. Let's not forget how Democrats let Putin grab Crimea and half of Eastern Ukraine, somehow that wasn't the case when Trump was President.

...and then moved the goalposts.

 

[inCloud]

Play the role perfectly, to use your words. Please pay attention.

US under Biden didn't retreat from Afghanistan in most shameful way possible? Or what

and then moved the goalposts.

They are exactly where they were, you just oversimplifying "evidences that he would be directly favourable" to saying something neutral or complementary to Russia.

This has been covered in this thread multiple times, but as you seem to want to ignore that.

Because its unrelated to topic? He didn't push Ukraine because he is Russian puppet, but because he is powerhungry and amoral person.

I never said Trump is good person. He is horrible man. He doesn't care about anyone or anything other than himself.

 

[McLaren]

You guys think that if you repeat that nonsense one more time it becomes more believable or what?

The only one believing nonsense here is you. Because only someone who is repeatedly blind of Trump’s actions & character would be this ignorant of what his side in Ukraine vs. Russia.

 

[unit-one]

Looks like Ukraine hit a warehouse of glide bomb modules in Kushchyovskaya airbase in Krasnodar region. A couple of Su-34 attackers are seen not far away. Their condition is unknown.

 

[Scaff]

US under Biden didn't retreat from Afghanistan in most shameful way possible? Or what

That's not what I said, now drop the strawman. Trump set the plan, Trump negotiated with the Taliban and cut out the Afghan Government, and Trump drew down US troop numbers. Biden inherited that and Republicans stopped him from doing much about it, he did delay it and certainly didn't just blindly follow Trumps plan.

They are exactly where they were, you just oversimplifying "evidences that he would be directly favourable" to saying something neutral or complementary to Russia.

No, I'm not, sharing US intelligence in an uncontrolled manner with Russia was directly favorable to them

Because its unrelated to topic? He didn't push Ukraine because he is Russian puppet, but because he is powerhungry and amoral person.

That doesn't change the fact that he threatened Ukraine and didn't threaten Russia, which runs contrary to your claim.

I never said Trump is good person. He is horrible man. He doesn't care about anyone or anything other than himself.

That you occasionally say that just doesn't cut much, given that you spend far, far more time defending him.

 

[inCloud]

he did delay it and certainly didn't just blindly follow Trumps plan.

And results?

sharing US intelligence in an uncontrolled manner with Russia was directly favorable to them

Not sure what you mean by uncontrolled manner. At time, both countries were busy fighting with ISIS, share intel about you enemy makes sense. Even now US sharing intel about ISIS with RF.

defending him

LoL

 

[Scaff]

And results?

Less of a disaster than it could have been given the mess Trump left, and that's the point your ignoring, this was Trumps doing (with GOP support) and yet you lay the blame totally at Biden's feet, excusing Trump of any part in the mess.

Not sure what you mean by uncontrolled manner. At time, both countries were busy fighting with ISIS, share intel about you enemy makes sense. Even now US sharing intel about ISIS with RF.

Tell me you know nothing about the incident without telling me you know nothing about the incident. It does show that providing you with sources is pointless, as you quite clearly don't read them.

Quite a bit of difference exists between sharing selected, redacted information and warnings (which is the norm) and just showing them raw intelligence complete with information that will reveal the sources (and the number of US sources and agents that were killed or captured under Trump increased significantly).

LoL

You've done it in this exchange, so please don't try and claim otherwise (well you didn't actually do so, you tried laughing it away, which isn't a denial). Oh, and don't quote mine what I said to try and minimise it either.

 

[inCloud]

Quite a bit of difference exists between sharing selected, redacted information and warnings (which is the norm) and just showing them raw intelligence complete with information that will reveal the sources (and the number of US sources and agents that were killed or captured under Trump increased significantly).

Did you read what you post?

The memo also noted long standing issues like placing too much trust in sources, a speedy recruiting process and inadequate attention to potential intelligence risks among other problems.

yet you lay the blame totally at Biden's feet, excusing Trump of any part in the mess.

I blame Biden of how it was presented to the world. US was pathetic.

 

[Scaff]

Did you read what you post?

Yes I did, I however didn't quote mine...

“Sometimes there are things beyond our control but there are also occasions of sloppiness and neglect and people in senior positions are never held responsible.”

...and it's odd that it wasn't a problem of this scale before or after Trump!

I blame Biden of how it was presented to the world. US was pathetic.

Nice deflection, again, that wasn't the point.

 

[inCloud]

“Sometimes there are things beyond our control but there are also occasions of sloppiness and neglect and people in senior positions are never held responsible.”

Still 0 ques that its related to Trump. Both presidents were known for being irresponsible when working with classified intel, most likely its systematic problem for civilians with access.

of this scale

Isnt thing like number of dead spies is classified?

that wasn't the point

That was my point when I described my position. Maybe I wasn't specific enough, but here we are.

 

[Scaff]

Still 0 ques that its related to Trump.

Only if you literally ignore the evidence, as you're happy to do.

Both presidents were known for being irresponsible when working with classified intel, most likely its systematic problem for civilians with access.

Apples and Oranges, and once again it's you defending Trump in claiming them are compariable.

Isnt thing like number of dead spies is classified?

Odd, I thought you'd read it.

That was my point when I described my position. Maybe I wasn't specific enough, but here we are.

No, you are being quite clear, you absolve Trump of any part of it.

 

[eran0004]

Wat? I believe that there is chance that Trump could threat both sides enough to start negotiations, at least, about freezing conflict on current positions.

Ukraine should be threatened for defending themselves? That’s insane. And it’s one thing to believe that Trump might be able to do something if he wins the president election, but a second Trump presidency won’t happen until next year - if ever, so why end the support of Ukraine now? Don’t you want Ukraine to be able to defend themselves until that happens?

As for threatening Russia, I haven’t been able to find any mention of that being part of Trump’s “plan”, in fact the only part of Trump’s “plan” that seems to be known is the timeframe: he claims that it could be done in 24 hours, which sounds like just another one of his megalomaniacal episodes.

Putin doesn't afraid of Biden, so this wouldn't not work with him as President, we have two years of war to confirm that.

I don’t think Biden had made any threats of that kind against Putin, and I think the reason he hasn’t is because he doesn’t want to escalate the conflict further.

Under Biden rule Putin became brave enough to grab some land, most likely after shameful retreat from Afghanistan.

Crimea was annexed in 2014, before Joe Biden became President and before the retreat from Afghanistan. And I don’t think the “shameful retreat” has anything at all to do with it, Putin may be mad but he’s not stupid enough to believe that a failed retreat from Afghanistan means that the US is weak.

I don't believe that Trump would be directly favourable for RF, there are 0 evidence about that after 4 years of his presidency.

The chaotic mess of Trump’s presidency was massively favourable for Putin’s Russia. That’s why they wanted him then and that’s why they want him now.

 

[unit-one]

A ballistic missile with cluster munitions was used.

 

[Dennisch]

That military parade that's coming soon in Moscow might be tempting.