Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[Fernandito01]

Trump was right, Zelensky has 4%. /s

View attachment 1432825

CNN hahh+

 

[Liquid]

CNN hahh+

Posts: 1
Joined: 12 minutes ago

I'm sure you have many constructive arguments to share with us.

 

[TexRex]

hahh+

 

[UKMikey]

Welcome back.

 

[Eliminatorek]

Posts: 1
Joined: 12 minutes ago

I'm sure you have many constructive arguments to share with us.

We will have now many folks coming from googling
G*TrumpPlanet
*:= Green?land, Ga?s, Goo?mba, Gr?eat, G?one, Gum?p, G?un

 

[Blood Eagle]

It's all the fault to countries that decided to be Murrican little dogs, they prefered to buy us weapons instead of being fully european and buy better equipments...
Only UK and France kept a good military industry, all the rest broke down, and first Germany that decided to betray all the european interest than buying only us military. The last decisions beetween german-french weapons that went down because of the german part is obvious, they end up buying foreign things.

France and UK, and Italy is a smaller level were right to keep military industry.
Be dependant of USA is a fool spirit, and dependand of Russia aswell, Europe is powerfull enough to defend ourself, we don't need NATO

I'm glad you brought this up. There are plenty of European weapons companies (BAE Systems, Airbus, Dassault, Thales, Konsberg). The EU was created for the specific purpose to compete with the US at the economic level. The Euro was created specifically to compete against the US Dollar. They created the no passport/no work visa required border policy to create cheap labor pools within the boundaries of the EU, and they figured that being double the US population, through these efforts, would create a bigger 'country' to compete with the US's economic might. Not all of the EU is in NATO, but the EU absolutely relies on the US to go to war for it and carry the majority of the weight for it. France and Germany are now making deals that are counter to supporting the US economically. Pretty clear that they do not value the relationship in NATO or as Allies. It seems like they view the US as canon fodder to be applied when they need something.

Now you have a Norwegian oil company saying they will no longer fuel US warships while getting praise and pats on the back for standing up to the stupid fat Americans. Those ships are there specifically for their national security. No, that Norwegian oil company does not represent the Norwegian government. It's not the end of the world that they will not fuel our ships. Likely very insignificant of an impact. NATO was not created because we love pissy Europeans and want to protect your way of life. It was a mutual defense pact and we never forced anyone to join it. I know this post is going to trigger people. That's ok. Move on and give us time to remove all our equipment, personnel and bases. It's going to take a long time and cost a lot of money. If you don't want to be a part of NATO, don't. We are competitors.

Mods can ban me, put the poo emoji reaction etc. Don't care.

 

[Famine]

Mods can ban me

Sure can. Don't know why you'd mention it out of the blue though.

 

[McLaren]

but the EU absolutely relies on the US to go to war for it and carry the majority of the weight for it. France and Germany are now making deals that are counter to supporting the US economically. Pretty clear that they do not value the relationship in NATO or as Allies. It seems like they view the US as canon fodder to be applied when they need something.

The key section of the treaty is Article 5. Its commitment clause defines the casus foederis. It commits each member state to consider an armed attack against one member state, in the areas defined by Article 6, to be an armed attack against them all. Upon such attack, each member state is to assist by taking "such action as [the member state] deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area." The article has only been invoked once, but considered in a number of other cases.

Article 5 has been invoked only once in NATO history, after the September 11 attacks on the United States in 2001.[51][52]

Following the September 11 attacks, George Robertson, Baron Robertson of Port Ellen of the United Kingdom telephoned Colin Powell and said that declaring an Article 5 contingency would be a useful political statement for NATO to make. The United States indicated it had no interest in making such a request itself, however, would not object to the council taking such action on its own.[/quote]

The revisionism here is quite astounding, but that's because it's akin to blaming a woman for seeking divorce b/c it doesn't want to acknowledge her husband slapped her for not making dinner. These things wouldn't be happening if Trump wasn't the one causing the issue to begin with by "not valuing the relationship in NATO or as Allies".

But, conservatives love playing victim for things they create as is the case here.

 

[Touring Mars]

Now you have a Norwegian oil company saying they will no longer fuel US warships while getting praise and pats on the back for standing up to the stupid fat Americans.

No, just one in particular.

 

[MatskiMonk]

The EU was created for the specific purpose to compete with the US at the economic level. The Euro was created specifically to compete against the US Dollar. They created the no passport/no work visa required border policy to create cheap labor pools within the boundaries of the EU, and they figured that being double the US population, through these efforts, would create a bigger 'country' to compete with the US's economic might.

This doesn't create a single unified military budget. The US has a tax base under one consistent policy that far outstrips any European country, it can therefore commit to spending far in excess of what European nations can. US military spending is more than 100% of the GDP of 80% of individual European countries. It's simply not possible to spend the kind of money required that America does on weapons unless you have a comparable population paying a comparable amount of tax to a single government, who then gets to spend that money back in it's own industry, so it's more like shuffling the money around your own country - not potentially having to give it to other countries as most of Europe would have to do. Half the worlds top 100 defence contractors are American - of course the Rapeublicans want other countries to spend more on defence, a lot of it probably ends up in American bank accounts.

 

[Scaff]

Pretty clear that they do not value the relationship in NATO or as Allies. It seems like they view the US as canon fodder to be applied when they need sosomething

Remind me who it was who supported the US when it asked for support under clause 5 of the NATO charter?

Good luck on global force projection without those bases, one of which in Germany saved countless US veterans lives.

That you think NATO was a US creation is revisionist enough to outright dismiss your diatribe. The damn treaty was drafted by a Canadian!

 

[Famine]

Aaaand the big baby keeps throwing the toys out of the pram, certainly not under instruction from his ex-KGB boss.

 

[FuriousDemon]

The art of the deal … with Putin.

 

[Pilot625]

Aaaand the big baby keeps throwing the toys out of the pram, certainly not under instruction from his ex-KGB boss.

Sounds like the UK is going to take the lead with $2 billion pledged to Ukraine and boots on the ground. Go for it. I hope you are the first to volunteer to the front lines. Keyboard warriors are all over the place yet few join up.

The US is tired of the forever wars. Many we started unjustly. We also created this mess during the Obama administration as highlighted by Senator Chris Murphy of Conn. for their own disgusting hubris. The US is no angel but we are going to rectify it slowly by pulling back from the world’s problems just as many countries have been wanting for the last several decades. Now you get to have your wish. It’ll be nice to see Europe stand on their own and take the lead into battle. The US president warned the EU nations to stop buying energy from Russia and the world’s leaders laughed. Now time to put up and go fight the war with your own children.

The US is bankrupt and has no business being the world’s defenders. Europe has 500 million people we have just 340 million. There is no reason Europe and the UK cannot do what they want to do. Have fun burying your friends. I personally have had enough of doing that for the last 25 years.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Aaaand the big baby keeps throwing the toys out of the pram, certainly not under instruction from his ex-KGB boss.

One step closer to disaster...

 

[Pilot625]

Remind me who it was who supported the US when it asked for support under clause 5 of the NATO charter?

Good luck on global force projection without those bases, one of which in Germany saved countless US veterans lives.

That you think NATO was a US creation is revisionist enough to outright dismiss your diatribe. The damn treaty was drafted by a Canadian!

Remind me who it was who supported the US when it asked for support under clause 5 of the NATO charter?

Good luck on global force projection without those bases, one of which in Germany saved countless US veterans lives.

That you think NATO was a US creation is revisionist enough to outright dismiss your diatribe. The damn treaty was drafted by a Canadian!

I’ll be more than happy if the US pulls out of NATO. Time for the UK and everyone else to take the lead.

All these unjust wars need to stop and the NATO countries need to pull their own weight. 2% of GDP spending isn’t cutting it and isn’t part of the NATO deal. Go forth into battle. Please let us know how it goes when you get to the front lines.

 

[UKMikey]

Sounds like the UK is going to take the lead with $2 billion pledged to Ukraine and boots on the ground. Go for it. I hope you are the first to volunteer to the front lines. Keyboard warriors are all over the place yet few join up.

I don't think they'd take me. My 43rd birthday was in 2009.

 

[Pilot625]

I don't think they'd take me. My 43rd birthday was in 2009.

They are kidnapping free men in the Ukraine and bussing them to the front lines. They will take you. Join up and fight for what you are so fiercely defending on here. Everyone with a little Ukraine flag in their social media bios need to go now to the Ukraine and fight. Bring your eldest child with you.

 

[Famine]

Keyboard warriors are all over the place

Quite so. Pack it in.


Edit: Lol, fun - and ironic - hill to die on.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I don't think they'd take me. My 43rd birthday was in 2009.

They wouldn't take me either because I'm disabled.

 

[Darla Starch]

Also generally speaking it's just Ukraine without the "the" qualifier, hasn't been in favor since the 90s

 

[MatskiMonk]

The US is bankrupt and has no business being the world’s defenders.

It will be interesting to see, with no real need to deploy any troops or vehicles overseas, to have a long range bomber fleet or their bases, or pretty much the entire Navy surface fleet, how significantly the US defence budget will be cut. The National Guard, a few boomers and the minuteman should cover it, it should be quite the saving.

... I'm going to be that doesn't happen though.

 

[Pilot625]

It will be interesting to see, with no real need to deploy any troops or vehicles overseas, to have a long range bomber fleet or their bases, or pretty much the entire Navy surface fleet, how significantly the US defence budget will be cut. The National Guard, a few boomers and the minuteman should cover it, it should be quite the saving.

... I'm going to be that doesn't happen though.

Who said the US would cut the defense budget. We still need to defend ourselves. As the UK and EU should be spending to defend themselves. The days of the US being the world’s piggy bank are over. We are bankrupt and on the path of rectifying the financial disaster that our leaders have put us on for the last 40 years. Sending other countries our money when they won’t spend on their own defense isn’t sound financial decision making.

 

[UKMikey]

They are kidnapping free men in the Ukraine and bussing them to the front lines. They will take you. Join up and fight for what you are so fiercely defending on here. Everyone with a little Ukraine flag in their social media bios need to go now to the Ukraine and fight. Bring your eldest child with you.

I can't seem to find any confirmation that "they" are kidnapping men to serve in the Ukrainian army. Putin's regime has kidnapped 700,000 Ukrainian children and forced Russian citizenship on them though according to this article.

Российский омбудсмен Львова-Белова: с начала войны в Россию вывезли более 700 тысяч украинских детей

Россия с начала полномасштабного вторжения в Украину "приняла" около 4,8 млн жителей Украины, из них более 700 тысяч – дети, говорится в докладе российского уполномоченного по правам ребенка Марии Львовой-Беловой. По информации омбудсмена, подавляющее большинство украинских детей приехали в...

www.currenttime.tv

Meanwhile the British Army still doesn't take people over forty-three years old unless they're specialists.

https://jobs.army.mod.uk/how-to-join/can-i-apply/age/

 

[Exorcet]

Who said the US would cut the defense budget. We still need to defend ourselves.

So whether or not the US is projecting power around the globe the cost is the same? Makes it sound like there is no benefit to scaling back.

Sending other countries our money when they won’t spend on their own defense isn’t sound financial decision making.

Not counting when they buy our stuff, or become economic partners to our benefit. There is a lot more to consider than how many weapons people are manufacturing.

 

[McLaren]

What an absolute shocker. The guy who spouted off bad take after bad take about hot hatches in GT7 is in here offering up equally dumb takes on the world theater.

We are bankrupt and on the path of rectifying the financial disaster that our leaders have put us on for the last 40 years.

Lol, the current moron in office added $8.4 trillion in his first term & will be adding potentially even more.

Trump has called for a series of steep tax cuts — from extending his expiring 2017 tax law to eliminating taxes on tips, overtime pay and Social Security benefits — that would add at least $5 trillion to the 10-year deficit compared to the red ink if no changes are made to current federal law, according to the nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. That figure could rise to $11 trillion depending on how his so-far-ambiguous proposals are structured.

Despite DOGE, Trump's agenda calls for adding trillions of dollars to U.S. debt

Budget experts say Trump’s tax and spending priorities would increase red ink, even as he boasts of balancing the budget. “I don’t think their rhetoric matches reality," one says.

www.nbcnews.com

Sending other countries our money when they won’t spend on their own defense isn’t sound financial decision making.

Such a typical American outlook of misunderstanding.

We don't send money, we send mainly equipment of value. We send them equipment and our defense contractors are incentivized to build new equipment for us.

A3: Military aid in the three congressionally enacted packages consists of four elements.

• Short-Term Military Support ($17 billion): This includes the transfer of weapons, both U.S. weapons and those purchased from allies, training of Ukrainian military personnel, and intelligence sharing. Much of this funding flows through the Ukrainian Security Assistance Initiative (USAI), which acts as a transfer account. Technically, the appropriations cover only the backfill equipment sent to Ukraine, not the equipment itself, but the two have been closely aligned.
• Long-Term Military Support ($10.4 billion): This consists of money that Ukraine can use to buy new weapons, mostly from the United States but also elsewhere. The problem is that these need to be manufactured, so there is a long delay. As a result, this likely funds postwar rebuilding the Ukrainian military, not current operations. (Because the USIA funds both long term and short-term support, the split is an estimate.) Confusion sometimes arises because DOD announcements state that United States has “committed” certain amounts of military equipment to Ukraine― for example, a recent fact sheet stated that “in total, the United States has committed more than $18.5 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since the beginning of the Biden Administration.” This combines the short-term and long-term support.
• U.S. Military Operations ($9.6 billion): In the spring, the United States sent about 18,000 troops to Europe to strengthen defenses and deter Russia. These deployments cost money above what was planned in the DOD budget.
• DOD General Support ($1.2 billion): This covers a wide variety of activities, some only tangentially related to Ukraine, to prepare DOD for future conflicts.

 

[Danoff]

rectifying the financial disaster that our leaders have put us on for the last 40 years

Uh... the US was on really solid footing economically speaking right at the end of the Biden admin. I have no idea what you think has been going on for the last 40 years, but the answer is not US economic disaster. What you're wanting to dismantle was a runaway success.

How are those egg prices treating you? Gas cheap yet? How's housing going? Better?