Saab is Dead - Or is it?; Yes, yes it is

[JCE]

I hate GM, I really do. I bet they were being way too unreasonable and that's the sole reason the sale didn't happen.

Go to hell GM.

 

[Philly]

I hate GM, I really do. I bet they were being way too unreasonable and that's the sole reason the sale didn't happen.

Go to hell GM.

I'm sure that's why the Koenigsegg deal fell through. They probably demanded to keep a share of the company and then insisted that that share meant they could still throw their weight about. I wouldn't want to deal with that.

It's just really frustrating that GM took both Pontiac and Saab and even Saturn and somehow completely ruined them when they were perfectly good at what they were. So now the three divisions that didn't get along with badge jobs because they were too good for them are dead.

I really wish they'd at least have given the new 9-5 a chance. Anybody know what will happen to that car?

 

[JCE]

I'm sure that's why the Koenigsegg deal fell through. They probably demanded to keep a share of the company and then insisted that that share meant they could still throw their weight about. I wouldn't want to deal with that.

It's just really frustrating that GM took both Pontiac and Saab and even Saturn and somehow completely ruined them when they were perfectly good at what they were. So now the three divisions that didn't get along with badge jobs because they were too good for them are dead.

I really wish they'd at least have given the new 9-5 a chance. Anybody know what will happen to that car?

+digi-rep. 100% EXACTLY CORRECT. GM has managed to actually kill off brands that actually have some form of want. I do not want a Chinese Buick, a really poorly designed Chevy or some ridiculous retarded looking Cadillac that cannot compete with Japan and European luxury brands. Saab was cool. Pontiac was cool and had some great cars. And even Saturn was worthwhile as a brand. GM is worthless now.

 

[sennarose88]

Speaking of "real" Saabs, I thought they had already died out, looooong time ago.

Thats unique on its era. Even until now. Thats the real Saab.

 

[daan]

They needed to do more of this...

 

[ND4SPD]

Gotta love the SAABcrobatics.

 

[PureAwesomeness]

Shame, I had my fingers crossed that they would stay around long enough to put this concept into production.

 

[Omnis]

Shame, I had my fingers crossed that they would stay around long enough to put this concept into production.

As if you or anyone else would buy it.

 

[magicalgin]

As if you or anyone else would buy it.

But it would still be magnificent to see, not?

 

[homeforsummer]

As if you or anyone else would buy it.

Of course people would buy it. People buy anything. People buy and put money down on Citroen GTs, Aston Martin One-77s, Eagle-fettled Jaguar XJSs, Ford GTs, Lexus LF-As and all other manner of completely daft cars. I'd bet that there'd easily be enough people to sign in the order book for a Saab that looked like that.

Your "" was just condescending.

 

[Omnis]

But it would still be magnificent to see, not?

Yeah, it's a nice concept. But that's all it is.

Of course people would buy it. People buy anything. People buy and put money down on Citroen GTs, Aston Martin One-77s, Eagle-fettled Jaguar XJSs, Ford GTs, Lexus LF-As and all other manner of completely daft cars. I'd bet that there'd easily be enough people to sign in the order book for a Saab that looked like that.

Your "" was just condescending.

Still wouldn't be worth it for Saab. That's just the way it is.

 

[homeforsummer]

Still wouldn't be worth it for Saab. That's just the way it is.

I don't dispute that, but by the same token, are the GT/GT/LF-A etc worth it for Citroen/Ford/Lexus? They're all essentially expensive novelties but we still appreciate their existance. Would Saab make money out of a supercar? If they used the right platform, they probably would.

Will they have a chance now? No.

 

[Antti-san]

Sad, but inevitable. I'll always have a soft spot for Saab though, since I learned to drive with my dad's 1987 Saab 900i.

 

[Greycap]

I'll always have a soft spot for Saab though, since I learned to drive with my dad's 1987 Saab 900i.

Join the club, I did the same with a '93 model. Nothing short of an idiotproof car despite apparently being related to a tractor if the handling characteristics and controls are any indicators.

 

[Scaff]

Would Saab make money out of a supercar? If they used the right platform, they probably would.

Very, very unlikely.

Supercars from volume manufacturers need to be so competitively priced against the likes of Ferrari, that they never make money.

The Ford GT is a prime example, every single one sold at a massive loss per unit. The halo effect did the rest of the brand some good, particularly as it was a well regarded car and at the time Ford could take the losses.

However Saab building such a car would have made as much sense (and cause the same damage) as Rover with the MG SV. Wasted money that was needed on core product and any that sold cost the company money.

Once you get to that kind of financial state, a supercar that eat money in development and then costs you for every one you sell is the absolute last thing you need.


Sad to see the brand go, but haven't personally liked any car they have made in nearly a decade.


Scaff

 

[GTjazzabrandy]

A shame because the new 9-5 looks promising.

Also on Auto blog the are saying the Swedish government could buy Saab.

 

[homeforsummer]

Very, very unlikely.

Supercars from volume manufacturers need to be so competitively priced against the likes of Ferrari, that they never make money.

My thinking was that Saab woudln't have had to make the most sophisticated thing in the world as long as it looked good. A bit like the Alfa 8C. Fair enough, Alfa had a Maserati platform to build on, but I'm sure GM have something somewhere that would have been suitable from which to develop a Saabercar.

Anyway, it's pretty academic now.

 

[Anghammarad]

Just In.

Spyker has made a renewed bid to buy SAAB. They say they are confident that the things that prevented GM from selling SAAB to them are now addressed.

 

[Dave A]

Just In.

Spyker has made a renewed bid to buy SAAB. They say they are confident that the things that prevented GM from selling SAAB to them are now addressed.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704107604574607791131579248.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Yep, just read this before I checked in here.

 

[Jim Prower]

ORLY?

guhh. Someone make up their mind already.

 

[homeforsummer]

If the news is accurate then I'm happy 👍

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, according to Autoblog, its not just a Spyker deal being considered too. The Swedish government is looking to keep the marque open as well. Generally speaking, any way we look at it, people are trying to save the brand because it is genuinely important to more than just a few crazy folks on the East coast.

What frustrates me most as a GM guy is that they're killing brands instead of letting them go. If people are willing to spend the money, why the hell not take the cash? Apparently the deal fell through with the Koeignsjashsadjsdegggggg boys because GM couldn't make up their minds A) on a price for the brand B) prices for continued parts supplies and C) some important IP issues. Whooopdy doo. Ford lost a crap ton of money on Jaguar, Land Rover and Aston Martin, but it was better to sell than to keep them on board. If people like Spyker want Saab, give it to them. I trust the Dutch to fund it well and bring the brand back to its glory days.

Problem is... With the brand being otherwise irrelevant for almost a decade, will people buy even if they've been given a reprieve?

I may be wrong, but the reason why they closed Saab is to cash GM Shanghai to make cars from China and export them here.

You are wrong. GM recently sold some of the tooling pieces of the previous 9-3 and 9-5 for production in China, which generally isn't that big of a deal. A lot of the Chinese brands buy the rights to older versions of vehicles to produce themselves. Do you really think the Chinese people care all that much? Likely not. GM has absolutely no plans to introduce any of their Chinese Saabs here in the US... For that matter, any of their Chinese-produced vehicles here.

...However, GM China has begun to increase their influence on their North American counterparts specifically with the Buick brand. Over there, Buick is a top-tier luxury brand, and without that status, we likely wouldn't have had the new LaCrosse and Regal as we see them today.

GM is losing money. The more people will buy cars made in China, the more cars will break. I have experienced Made-In-China products before, they are defective.

Better turn in your iPod, laptop, television, tennis shoes, jeans, tee shirts and just about everything else we use in daily life. In all honesty, its a matter of time before Chinese vehicles enter the American market, and furthermore, its only a matter of time before they exceed the basic standards of quality and reliability. It was fewer than two decades ago when all of the Korean models were a joke in the industry... Now, some of them are arguably standards within their respective markets. Certainly an argument can be made that Hyundais and Kias are superior to Toyotas and Hondas in some respects. We may be saying the same thing about Red Flag, Great Wall and BIAC models in the near future.

By 2011, it's the end of GM. Americans will be Wal-Marted if they do buy the cars by GM. I hate Saab. It's GM after all.

Get your head out of your ass and go down to your local Buick, Chevrolet or Cadillac dealer. They are building highly competitive or class leading products that you or I can (gasp!) easily afford. The (possible) loss of Saab is unfortunate, but its a brand that hasn't been relative for quite some time. I still love their vehicles with all my heart, especially the bat-s-crazy TurboX vehicles we saw last year. The changes at GM will be hard and difficult, but will result in keeping the company around for a very, very long time.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Get your head out of your ass and go down to your local Buick, Chevrolet or Cadillac dealer. They are building highly competitive or class leading products that you or I can (gasp!) easily afford.

I have been, to multiple dealers. Guess what? These "highly competitive" vehicles manage to be complete disappointments inside due to cost cutting on the lower trim levels; the bits you'll spend the most time using feel cheap as. Well, Buick isn't bad but then they're expensive. Same with Cadillac. Next time you have a chance, take note of the steering wheels they're using in base model Impalas and Malibus. Weird textured plastic/rubber crap on the actual rim that feels horrible against your hand. Sure, you could buy one then steal the steering wheel out of a higher-spec model but that kinda defeats the purpose. And it's not even an option on the lower end models.

 

[YSSMAN]

While I wholeheartedly agree that GM's corporate steering wheel issues are important, and generally speaking ridiculous, I'm thinking that the majority of people who buy these cars never really notice it. I've been around a lot of Cobalts and Impalas in my day, of various trim levels, and I can't say I've noticed a difference that is that bad. GM still doesn't have the best reputation for parts sharing, but seeing as how many of their new vehicles are using model-specific switchgear and so on... That's a massive leap forward for a company that was otherwise stuck in the past.

...And certainly all of that leads directly into the demise of Saab. Using GM switchgear never helped the interior quality of the vehicles, and certainly, making the cars feel "unique" at any point in time.

 

[TVC]

SAAB was never really marketed correctly. I mean what were they really meant to be? Who were they competing with? Mercedes, Lexus, Volvo, Buick, BMW, Lincoln? GM never really established this. If GM did that and made it well known who SAAB competes with then maybe this would not be happening.

Combine that with fact GM never really brought them up and they were kind of just an extra company GM owned and hoped would make money.

 

[Veyron407]

I think that the future 9-5 is stunning, I will always miss the ludicrous turbo 9-3s

 

[JB-BMW1989]

GM sucks, plain and simple. I mean, look how ugly the Cadillac CTS-V is. You called this highly-competitive? We know the E60 M5 is outdated, but wait till the new M5 comes out. We are making judgments here, but I believe the new M5 will beat the latest CTS-V in comparison. In a car battle, it depends on the driver.

By the way, I looked at GM cars before, they are poor man's Toyota. I can even say the Chevrolet Cobalt is the same crap as the Toyota Corolla and the Honda Civic Si. I despise GM. I despise their cars so much, GM deserves to be bankrupt. That goes for Toyota and Volkswagen too. SAAB is gone, so what? SAAB is just a disgrace of a Swedish car.

 

[Keef]

GM sucks, plain and simple. I mean, look how ugly the Cadillac CTS-V is. You called this highly-competitive? We know the E60 M5 is outdated, but wait till the new M5 comes out. We are making judgments here, but I believe the new M5 will beat the latest CTS-V in comparison. In a car battle, it depends on the driver.

Hey, look at my BMW avatar! Isn't it awesome? It's awesome like BMWs!

 

[TVC]

GM sucks, plain and simple. I mean, look how ugly the Cadillac CTS-V is. You called this highly-competitive? We know the E60 M5 is outdated, but wait till the new M5 comes out. We are making judgments here, but I believe the new M5 will beat the latest CTS-V in comparison. In a car battle, it depends on the driver.

By the way, I looked at GM cars before, they are poor man's Toyota. I can even say the Chevrolet Cobalt is the same crap as the Toyota Corolla and the Honda Civic Si. I despise GM. I despise their cars so much, GM deserves to be bankrupt. That goes for Toyota and Volkswagen too. SAAB is gone, so what? SAAB is just a disgrace of a Swedish car.

Isn't the point of making a new car to make it better than the competition and better than the last generation? I am sure one thing BMW is doing is looking at the CTS-V and doing things to make the new M5 better than it. I would hope any car company would be able to make a car better than it's competition from a generation earlier.

The Chevy Cobalt SS Turbo is faster around the Nurburgring than an M5 Touring () and isn't that much slower than an M6 Convertible (8.22.85 vs 8.16.52). I think that is pretty embarrassing. (so much for "The ultimate driving machine").

I wasn't aware the Swedish automotive industry was so large. There is Volvo, Koenigsegg, Scania, Saab, and ? The only company to even compare SAAB to is Volvo and I don't really see how they are any worse.

Also before calling anything a "poor man's" car I think you should look at BMW's pricing. There cars are pretty cheap for a German car. Not to mention a Chevy Cobalt is $14,990 and Corolla is $15,350.

 

[McLaren]

The Chevy Cobalt SS Turbo is faster around the Nurburgring than an M5 Touring () and isn't that much slower than an M6 Convertible (8.22.85 vs 8.16.52). I think that is pretty embarrassing. (so much for "The ultimate driving machine").

How is the M6 being 6 seconds faster embarrassing on the Nurburgring? That's not embarrassing, that's actually a big gap.

What's "embarrassing" is that the Cobalt SS/TC is 8:22.85 while the old Z3 M Coupe is 8:22, directly ahead. Oh wait, maybe the "embarrassing" part is that the BMW E36 Euro-Spec is nearly 3 seconds ahead at 8:20.

It's obvious you're not quite aware just how much of a difference 6 seconds is on the 'Ring, seeing as all the cars in-between the M6 & the Cobalt consist of the IS-F, M3 E46 & E36, Z8, V12 Vanquish, '10 Camaro SS, & others.

Also before calling anything a "poor man's" car I think you should look at BMW's pricing. There cars are pretty cheap for a German car. Not to mention a Chevy Cobalt is $14,990 and Corolla is $15,350.

The cheapest BMW is a 128i @ $29,000.
The cheapest Mercedes is a C300 SS @ $33,600.
The cheapest Audi is an A3 @ $27,270.

From this lineup of entry models, BMW is actually in the very middle of the most affordable German cars. But then again, these are basic, entry level cars. From my experience, BMWs are in reality the farthest things from being a cheap, German car. In fact, Audi is the one who tends to undercut BMW & Mercedes more than anything.